Here we go. This isn't good.
This is breaking right now.
I was climbing out of my tree stand about 9:45 AM and heard lots of sirens. This is a couple towns North of me.
Newtown Ct. School Shooting

1 shooter reported dead.
Elementary school for cryin out loud.
Prayers for the victims.

[bleep]!!!

Libs and Muzzies. Too chicken to go up against grown people.

From another news blurb...


"Multiple people have been killed in a shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School on Dickinson Drive. Children are among the dead, according to sources."

Please tell me it wasn't a child that was the shooter...

Not that it would make it any better if it were an adult.

My prayers are going out to this town and the families in it...

There's a car parked out in the front of the school that's surrounded by yellow tape. It appears somebody drove there.

It's disgusting beyond belief that somebody would go into a K through 4 elementary school and start shooting.

THOSE ARE LITTLE KIDS !!!

[bleep] !!!

CNN says shooter's dead and 3 injured have been transported to hospital, no word on their condition.

You can bet dollars to donuts it's a child custody at Christmas deal gone bad...

Shee-it.

I live very close to the school. One student is dead and the shooter is dead. Several others have been shot according to a friend of mine.

I just feel sick................

Prayers

My guess as well.

Costas may opine that banning divorce would prevent this sort of thing.

[bleep], this is all we need as gun owners...

First a shooting at a mall ... at Christmas time

Now a shooting at an elementary school




There's some truly sick people in the world.

My heart goes out to them.

You are probably right.

Prayers on the way

When are parents going to smarten up and realize that gun free zones are a target rich enviroment. How many parents would pay to have trained and armed teachers at there kids school? My bet, Many Many!!!!

In this world, I am not sure why there aren't armed guards at most public places. Schools, shopping malls, theatres, etc.

There are periodic calls for such measures. But, the financial costs on municipal budgets would be high.

Nah- it's the GUN'S fault, of course..

Prayers go out to the victims and families..

But here's the bottom line - another target rich environment with NO firearms allowed on campus - teachers/kids - can't protect themselves...

A lot of parents would concur - but this was CT you realize.. A bastion of liberalism IMHO..

Remember, LAWS prevent all this doncha know...

I'd be ok with it.. But you'll have to convince the bunch of libbies that it's ok.. Good luck with all that...

Never understood it, if you want to kill people and didn't care about dying yourself, then just join the military and ask to go to Afghanistan.

Local news just said 27 dead. some are kids. Damn. Bear

I want to say unbelieveable, but too sad it is becoming the norm.

Sick crazy people in this world.

God save the children, hope they are all ok.

No!

FOX is trying to confirm the number.

They just said between 12 and 20.

...the devil walks abroad in daylight, my friends.

How many copy cat events will THIS trigger ?

the mind boggles.

GTC

CNN is reporting only 2 adults dead plus shooter. Not kids, certainly not 27 kids.

I can not fathom the mental state of someone who would do something like this. Sweet Jesus. Bear

18 children and 8 adults.....dead.

Unbelievable.

Dink

Regretably, copy cat appears to be at least part of the pattern.

That and a generation or so of fragile, self-absorbed people

Murders have always been part of the human condition, but the frequency of this sort of event seems to be a recent development.

Paul

Drudge/CBS News is reporting 27 dead with 14 kids. Damn!

I don't know what to say.,

bdu uniforms a glock and a sig sauer.

what the [bleep] is happening to this world.

these are children. little bitty kids

i hate my fellow man

I just heard that the toll is now 27 with 18 children.

only 3 treated at hospital.....the rest....wtf

Our Helena high schools have police officers stationed there at all times. I think the grade schools do to to some extent. They are called resource officers and many teach usually as coaches. Of course, the officers are armed at all times.

Damn. I don't have words.

You are absolutely right. An armed society is a polite society.

One of my daughters is a school psychologist in Georgia. They have an armed school resource officer, but he can only be in one place at a time, leaving the rest of the school unprotected.

27 dead, including 18 kids....

Shooter is 20 years old and a New Jersey resident according to reports.
So much for 21 year old handgun laws and tough New Jersey gun laws. I'm seeing 18 kids dead now, too.

I can see a crazy shooting adults but murdering little kids at random? It's beyond senseless. Pure evil, the real deal, is the only thing I can come up with.

NO! This is truly disgusting...

I feel like the tears are filling my eyes right now...

Not even old enough to legally buy a handgun...I am sure the media won't report that!

Just sickening, I have no words... heart hurts...

I can't even fathom how demented you'd have to be to do something like this. It makes no sense.

Hug your kids tight tonight guys, tell them you love them.

This is so horrible. The madness of it all is impossible to understand. My heart goes out for everyone involved.

[bleep] unreal.........

what in the world could provoking this puck!ng azzhat to do this to little kids? what?????

This just hurts the heart to the core. Prayers to the families for the strength to make it through this terrible, senseless atrocity. Little kids.. What is wrong with these maniacs?

There's supposed to be TWO of em',...one croaked, one still at large.

GTC

Ditto

I have no words...

We need to pray for the wounded, pray for the families and friends of the dead, and pray that those who would infringe upon our rights be thwarted.

On the issue of security, in the early 1980s, the county that Little Rock sits in (Pulaski County) had an epidemic of convenience stores being victims of armed robberies. The sheriff, Tommy Robinson, started a program where he would have deputies with shotguns hide in the back of randomly selected convenience stores, and he publicized that at any given time a deputy would be in a convenience store somewhere in Pulaski County. He gave convenience store owners flyers to post at their stores' doorways that had a drawing of a deputy looking down a double barrel shotgun at the viewer of the flyer. Just a little reminder of the danger an armed robber might face. That program resulted in a dramatic drop in the armed robberies. I don't know if the 96% reduction listed in Tommy Robinson's Wikipedia article is totally accurate, but I remember the armed robberies went from frequent (multiple a week in the county) to virtually none.

I agree with the people who have written previously in the thread about the need for increased security at schools and other vulnerable places. That could include having more of a police presence (like Tommy Robinson did with the convenience stores) and/or having appropriately trained teachers covertly armed.

Obviously, a tragedy with 18 kids & 8 adults killed. I can answer your question about why aren't armed guards at most public areas. Its all about liability. Just look at the Texas Wal-Mart shooting when an off duty deputy sheriff shot a shot lifter. Yes, there is more to the story, but bottom line this will cost Wal-Mart millions. I train security guards & sometimes work as an armed security guard, but not at public buildings. The common thinking is that the insurance premiums for armed guards & resulting liability is higher than the risk of unarmed security guards. All of these recent shootings may cause many to rethink this opinion. I'm pro gun, but you can be assured there will be new gun restrictions passed in many cities & states, as well as possible new Assault weapons legislation. This is another tragedy & one can only be sympathetic for the loved ones that now must bury their dead.

This is just evil, plain and [bleep]' simple. I cannot begin to fathom how something like this is possible.

There's not much anyone can say. Sad situation.

Self-absorbed, fragile, and alienated. Not necessarily mentally ill in the conventional clinical sense.

An element of copy cat. Simply a fashionable crime, a horrific, tragic fad. Hard to avoid in today's world of instant news and publicity.

No easy answers.

Paul

I hope that [bleep] gets what s/he deserves...

entire kindergarden class is unaccounted for

As a society, we are soooooo far gone it isn't even funny.

Gun control laws won't fix selfish, self absorbed anti social people. Look for this to get worse, and putting our young ones in a "gun free" zone, it criminal, at best.

A tragety indeed. My prayers to the familys.

I just heard on NBC that there has been a stabbing in a Chinese school with multiple(20+?) deaths. Not related, but still tragic.

27 dead including 18 kids.
I knew something big was happening when I heard sirens and all sorts of emergency vehicles flying up the road.
This is pure evil.

This breaks my heart...

prayers sent for the famlies and first responders.

this is going to be hard for involved

Paul, it is so far from social norms and just plain human nature I can't see how a person could become so twisted to do such a thing. Beyond just pure intentional evil that is.

I am just sick! I heard this and at the same time my wife and daughters Kindergarten class was walking past my office.

My prayers are with the families and victims.



ddj

I breaks all our hearts.

they have a 2nd shooter in custody.


Travis

I do want to add that these shooting all happen in gun free zones or states that don't have a concealed carry law.

Gun free zones are the same as putting rape free zone signs on college campuses. It looks good but doesn't do anything to stop violence.


ddj

Not sure how the coward died...but that is just what they are...cowards.

They go into a school, filled with beautiful young lives, and just rein terror down upon them.

My niece, McKenzie Rose(Mickey Roo...but only Uncle Mikey can call her that!) is in kindergarten right now. We talk a couple of times a week on the phone, and she is always telling me about how things are going, and the friends she is making, and about her "boyfriend" (I'm gonna have to speak with this young man), and everything else that a 5 year old has going on...

To think that there could be a possibility of losing that, of not hearing her sweet innocent voice on the phone...just makes me sick.

It makes me sick to think about the "Uncle Mikey's" in CT, who lost their "Mickey Roo's" this morning...

That

THANK GOD!

Agreed. We just try to fathom the incomprehensible.

Unfortunately, there will be a rush to "do something" that will likely be ineffective, while creating false security. Most "common sense" gun control is in that category.

Paul

Very upsetting.

As a parent of a 5yo, this one hurts.

This is tragic on so many levels, but this is going to be politicized as soon as possible

They are saying a .223 was involved....

I had a feeling something like this was about to happen, because I've had my eye on buying a few of the sorts of guns and mags that a new "assault weapon" ban would prohibit. I've felt like I was working against the clock on acquiring them these last few days.

glock 9mm and a sig 223

Me too Bobby.

Gunner

There is no way to describe how bad this is, what the hell is wrong with people, the whole world is going mad and there is no law that will stop this.

I have a 4 and 6 year old... pre-k and 1st grade. Heart breaking.

I was in a HS class last period. Overall student reaction is VERY anti 2A.

go [bleep] yourself you self centered prick

Too early to know. Report I heard was that they pulled a guy wearing camo pants out of the nearby woods. He reportedly declared to police and parents there, "I didn't do it!" This will obviously take time to sort out...

X100000000000000

Sounds like they're saying now, that other than the 20 year old shooter that was killed, a second shooter is in custody!

Phil

If that is a 2nd shooter he should be killed in the public square!

I have words: Far too many loons running around and not enough checks in place to account for them. Many of the "mass shooters" like Columbine and other examples, exhibited signs that they weren't playing with full decks. Yet far too many in our society frown on crimping their styles ahead of time.

When the potentially-demented are protected, the rest of us are always at some peril. Too damn late, once they carry out their twisted plots.

Granted, it's impossible to keep track of those who may suddenly go off their nut and decide to do insane things like this. But bans on teachers carrying concealed, bans on students carrying on college campuses, establishments that ban legally-carried weapons (think Luby's and now Bufalo Wild Wings), etc, make it far easier for these disaffected nutballs to pull off despicable acts like this one.

One packing teacher or principal, may well have stopped this craziness before it got rolling? There are already examples of that having been the case.

I have three friends that have kids in this school. I have two friends at the scene (LEO's). The shooter is 20ish they have not confirmed his exact age. He is from NJ but the word I have is his father lives in Newtown.

Society going down the chitter at an ever increasing rate

Sad as it is that folks die by the hundreds of thousands every day from various causes, the far greater tragedy is the loss of human liberty that events such as this will be exploited by our despots to justify.

Just horrific.

I sure wish the media would in the future, stop publishing the names and pictures of such mass killers. I realize that may be impractical in all cases, but some of these crimes are committed to seek attention, and removing the attention might deter some of them.

20 years old?! This was no "custody battle gone wrong" or anything like that.

This sounds like a Columbine type "I'm a big puzzy" action!

Sad that you are just the other side of their coin, no different in your choice to use this tragic sad event to make your own statement about your political beliefs.

I heard the 20 y.o. was from New Jersey, but his father lives in Newtown.

Not surprised, considering the source. Is that some SICK chit, or what ?

It was a terrorist attack plain and simple. Terrorism knows no racial or political boundaries.

Could be anything, even something as simple as a broken relationship with one of the teachers! Payback for some unknown incident involving one of the kids parents... what ever it took some sick MF's to carry out!


Phil

Agreed.

I can only speak for myself, but I don't consider fundamental liberty (the alternative being tyranny) to be a mere "political position." YMMV. Too many Americans have given their lives to preserve what you so callously dismiss as trivial.

YOU ARE A SAD EXCUSE OF A MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Save your messed-up comments for another day!!

I have a kindergartener. How (or really why) in the [bleep] do we allow these kinds of people to be free among us?

This not offending people attitude has to stop.

Most saying the same things.

If there is a bright spot, by having a surviving shooter in custody we may learn something about the motivation behind these uncomprehensible acts. At least he didn't get to off himself like most do.

Justice later.

Paul

Translated:

"Look at me, look at me"



Clyde

Not a single person here is talking about their right to own certain guns...this thread does NOT have to get political...there are HUNDREDS of others for that.

This is a thread where people are talking about the TRAGEDY of the loss of so many innocent lives this morning.

I've noticed that no matter what the thread is about, you HAVE to interject something that doesn't need to be said in it. Good for you...you're amazing...you are the best poser on here...

I didn't think the dumbphuck could stoop any lower, but I was wrong! What [bleep] dipshitt!

Oh, and I did NOT have a typo...I really meant POSER.

How many tears have you shed today for the other many thousands who've died in the same hour this event took place? If you say none, then you are a hypocrite of the first order.

Politics or idealogy, this is not the thread to voice that. If anything transcends politics, the killing of small children qualifies.

Prayers sent....this hurts.

Yep. And until this happens:

If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

We can expect more of the same until HE returns.

John

And YOU are a sicko, TRH

take a number.

tears...

I have never been a keyboard tough guy, but by god, if you were in front of me now I would punch you square in the face. And not caring how old you are.

You have GOT to be kidding me! You truly are a piece of work...

I didn't cry for anyone else who died at 9:40am today...but I DID cry for these children. I am NOT a hypocrite. You sir, are a pot stirring azz...who has provided very little, if not nothing to this thread...

Horrible.

It is possible to be a white christian and still be a terrorists. This guy was a terrorists plain and simple.

I would. I think all teachers should be trained in the use of firearms and be willing to protect those kids as if they were their own. Barring that give the teachers the option to be armed and make it a crime to out those that do carry in school. Say a $10,000 fine and 6 months in jail.

I keep reading...and it just makes me sick...thinking that something could have been justified in their sick, demented heads to do something like this.

TRH = "Look at me"

.....and that is God's honest truth.

I can't believe he's allowed anywhere NEAR young folks, or into any school.

GTC

I can't believe Rick lets that pucker continue to post here.

Have confirmation that three of the kids I know that go to school there are safe. Waiting to hear about two more.

What news sources are reporting about the second shooter? Not seeing any mention on CNN or Fox.

Sorry you gotta go through this man.

Travis

Thank the lord!

My prayers are with you and yours until you find out about the other 2...and beyond, while they attempt to pick up the pieces.

Prayers are with you. (and them)

Link: http://gma.yahoo.com/breaking-conn-...port-151955384--abc-news-topstories.html

these are terrorist. they terrorize by striking fear into others.

i believe their called home grown terrorist.

Thanks guys. The wife works with the father of the last two we are waiting to hear on.

+1
I'm about 18 miles away and all I hear are news helicopters.

Thoughts and prayers are with them and with you, Mister.

GTC

Fair_Chase

While this is not the forum for debate on the gun issue and Real Hawkeye should have saved it for another time he is right in the fact that we cannot let tragedy rob us of liberty.

Real Hawkeye

We should be thinking and praying for the kids who were killed and wounded today not getting political. Do that next week maybe and on a different thread please.

There is another man in custody that they found in the woods. He claims not to have anything to do with it. I hunt right near this school, so he could very well be a hunter. However they have not released him and they have not given any indication he was or was not part of this.

been crying since I heard about it.....I have a grandaugher that age.....I will pray for those parents...its more than one can take in....

Possible, but imo not enough info out there to make that call yet.

Not all violence is terrorism, and not all sensless violence is terrorism.

just .02

TRH,

Apologize ... then STFU ... you self centered bastard.

It's women and little children that were slaughtered today.

Are you totally heartless?





I know I'm not. My heart goes out everyone affected by this.

Sad sad day.....

I ache for the families......

slowly

Speechless, just no words come...

What the [bleep] is wrong with you??? Little children. Little tiny innocent kids with every thing to live for have been wiped off the face of this earth by a demented coward POS! Countless others who are scarred for life. Families in turmoil and pain that you no doubt have never experienced. And you turn this into a debate?? And worse yet, the first thing you think of to post about is that you're worried about not being able to buy the guns you want?! There is time and a place (and a thread) to rant about that other shiit. THIS is not that!

You sir, are a 1st class piece of shiit! So go [bleep] yourself you selfish azzhole!

Damn, makes me want to hug my son. Feel so sorry for the parents.

Sorry you miss the point.

As a hunter and gun owner I support the 2nd amendment but...... At some point we have to come to gripes with the gun violence in this country and ease of getting multiple weapons. We need some common sense and reasonable gun laws period.


Let the beating begin.

Why don't you just leave this thread while can as you look like only 98% the azzhole everyone already thinks you are.

Sounds like he killed his mother, or atleast they are saying that there is a dead body in the home of his mother.

As it should.. You ignorant piece of chit...

Freakin' TROLL...


GFY..

Armed teachers - at least enough fairly distributed thruout a school - are MUCH preferable to hired security guards who have no "skin in the game".

I wouldn't have thought of a penalty for "outing" an armed teacher, but it is a good idea.

"Bonnie and Clyde" , my two 4 YO grandkids and the light of my life, came to my mind as soon as I heard of this. They are both in school as I type this.

Somehow, it seems almost wrong for me to give thanks to God for their safety when I know so many have lost the "light" from their lives this morning.

These two shooters are not human,or even animals or monsters................ they are agents of the Devil himself.

Topic for a different thread please.

My God!
This is just getting worse!

Let me be first. Reports are that the shooter had a Glock and a Sig. Reports are the shooter was 20 years old. Last time I checked, it is illegal for anyone under the age of 21 to purchase a handgun.

We have laws. We also have very evil, evil people.

It doesn't take armed guards. All it takes is armed trained responsible employees. The victim zones would vanish.

Can anyone describe or tell us more about the community there?

Prayers sent for the innocent.

If the shooter really is 20, he is not even old enough to legally buy a handgun or ammo yet. How do you legislate even more?

With tears and a sick stomach I will continue to pray for those parents and children.

I can't fathom the evil that walks amongst us.

We're all thinking about the children right now but in the back of our minds, we have a terrible feeling of what's coming.


Let's just try and focus on the children for now instead of future ramifications and deal with the rest when it comes.

After 9/11, we allowed pilots to apply and be trained to carry weapons to prevent attacks like 9/11. We should allow teachers and administrators to do the same. Schools are gun-free killing zones.

I was watching CBS and they say 18 children dead, 36 total (others are adults). The children are between the ages of 5-10, and apparently the shooter went in and killed a kindergarten class execution-style. I am speechless.

Penny

Irony is that Tommy now owns and runs a Liquor store in Brinkley, Arkansas. Another target for robbers. miles

Rural upscale town, Sandy Hook is a section of Newtown. Both are very nice quite towns.

+1

This a a bad day here in CT, the school is K through 4th grade, were talking 5 yrs old to 9 yrs old. Gunman is a 20 yr old. this makes me sick to my stomach with reports coming out that of the 27 dead, 18 are children. WTF is wrong with people. A sad, sad day.

Quiet, close knit, semi rural. Up till now, out of the mix.

There is only one word that comes to mind in the face of an incredible tragedy like this involving these innocent children: Why???

I wonder if the political debaters would like to have their conversation with this lady....



...this guts me...

Deleted because I don't want to contribute to the trolls

The shooters age has not been confirmed. They are saying he is early 20's.

I think you've nailed it.

GTC

I'm shaking seeing that picture.


...My God

can't look at that picture...

me too

amateur psycho-babble analysis:
The custody theory is out the window. possibly killed his mom and then did this in his dads town... killing kids...

guessing maybe he was touched a bit as a kid and no one did anything about it. Mom knew, so he killed her?

God, its so sad.

I have lost a child, I know something of grief, but I cannot begin to fathom the grief experienced by a parent losing a child so young. My heart truly goes out to these people.

Reports of a body found in home near the school.

Early reports... a body found inside a local home being searched. Speculation it may be the shooter's mother. Also heard a report that the shooter had some sort of ties to the school.

+1.

Truly the nightmare of all nightmares come true.

A news commentator on NBC just stated that it "appears" that the majority of casualties were in one classroom giving the impression that the shooter might possibly have focused on that classroom for some unfathomable reason.

The Sandy Hook section of Newtown is between Monroe, Oxford, and the Housatonic river. All very well to do towns.

My prayers to the families of the children and adults that were robbed of their lives today. I also pray that there is a very special place in hell for the shooter/shooters.

Mike

Yes the word is that it was a kindergarden class and possibly the entire class gone.

I see a tear falling from her chin as an unexplainable amount of black death rage builds in my chest, God Bless them, please.

Gunner

In the abstract, it's quite sad to contemplate the death of children, but how many children die each day? Far more important is the potential for exploitation by the left of tragedies like this in order to further rob us of that most precious jewel of liberty.

Very sorry that you also miss the point.

You mean you'd try.

Zip it. Ain't the time or place.

Real Hawkeye nobody wants to hear your bullschit.

Just stop....

Absolutely! That would be common sense. Too much to expect from that bunch of leftists that rule us, however.

This ^

Please, let's not fight with each other right now.


I think we're all a little bit overwhelmed but we should be coming together instead of bickering.

TRH, How many children do you have?

Abstract?

Go away you chit stain.

Hopefully your last defenders on here realize what everyone else see's every single time you post on here.

See folks? See what I mean??

Fair Chase

While this is not the forum for debate on the gun issue and Real Hawkeye should have saved it for another time he is right in the fact that we cannot let tragedy rob us of liberty.

Real Hawkeye

We should be thinking and praying for the kids who were killed and wounded today not getting political. Do that next week maybe and on a different thread please. [/quote]

Sorry you miss the point. [/quote]

Maybe I did. Please help me understand your point of view.

Just remember that having children does not automatically make someone a good person.

Start your own thread. Stay off of this one.

Dude, ok. Got it. Great discussion topic...

for another thread. Seriously.

These kids are going to have to live their entire lives, which just started, with this. These are not high school kids these are K thru 4th grade. No kid should have to start their lives like this.

Oh, now you went and done it. Be prepared for being skinned alive for taking this discussion away from a group cry fest.

I see many law suites against the she school for not being allowed to protect those children from a psychopath.

24 year old Ryan Lanza was the shooter.

How did that pyscho get into the school? My son's daycare is locked down.

Anyone know what his tie to the school is? Dad work there?

You are a terrible person to be thinking of politics at a time like this. You should be too preoccupied by uncontrolled weeping for that.

They have not said what his connection to the school is yet.

You worthless son of a bitch; why are you replying to me? YOU KNOW I've had you on IGNORE for years.

Barak and I just went last night to the Christmas concert at our grandson's school. He's 5. Remembering all those little faces singing Christmas carols... My heart swells with joy that our grandson is still with us, and it breaks with pain and anguish for those parents who lost their children. I cannot imagine anything more painful.

Penny

NBC News report - Shooter: Ryan Lanza(sp?) age 24 - his mother worked at the school and was reported to be one of the victims.

Public schools (elementary and on up) generally have unlocked front doors. There is a receptionist in the front area who (in this case) probably saw the gunman first.

Daycare and pre-schools generally have locked front doors.

Prepare for a hate barrage for that comment.

But having no children would explain his clueless nature.

They just reported his mother was a teacher at the school and he killed her and her students. Unphuckingbelievable!

Ironically, one news camera shot showed the sign out in front of the school. Underneath the name it said, "Visitors welcome."

Penny

There are 18 little kids dead because of this phsycho and you want to talk politics, what a jerk.

Jesse Marx was tracked down damn quick and his [bleep] along with his family exposed for view...

Possibly. Either way, TRH is not right in the head.

His mother could have been a teacher at the school???

But it is way to early to know that for sure?

the unconfirmed count is now 29.

I must say that I'm very suspicious of the intentions of those attempting to tamp down the liberty/tyranny angle of this story, which to my mind, and I assume many others here, is the primary concern. This world is a mere springboard to eternity for all of us. Souls are immortal. When you personally know someone, and care for them, you have an excuse for being emotionally distracted from the more important issues upon his/her death. Otherwise, it's almost certainly pretense.

It's too bad the sick perps who commit these cowardly acts usually kill themselves. They're getting off far too easy...

Interesting comment from one of the talking heads: "This will be for schools what 9/11 was for airports."

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/7182765/Arm_the_Teachers#Post7182765

Also unconfirmed is his father is killed as well.

Each period, a different number.

And a new report that the mother may have been the teacher of the kindergarden class.

TRH, do the world a favor and go suck a Glockcicle!

[bleep] you you POS.

Gun-Free-Zone
is a
Kill-Free-Zone

The shooter might have also his mom and dad.

+1

For me personally it's not that I wish to "tamp down the liberty/tyranny angle", it's that that should be a thread of its own.

Just ignore TRH, we all know what a dumbazz he is. Lets not keep him going.

OK smart ass, how many children have you fathered?

a. A male person whose sperm unites with an egg, resulting in the conception of a child.

local news saying over 100 rounds fired.

Somebody who facebooks ought to look up his FB page before it gets shut down. Somebody who did something like this has been planning on it for awhile.

Misplacing your anger at TRH ain't gonna change a damn thing but he should take that talk to a different thread.

Evil on this level is hard to comprehend.... My theory is that it provides a contrast to good/love/family..... Trying to understand how and why a loving God allows the innocent to suffer is IMO, one of the biggest stumbling blocks to Faith.....

How we respond to one another during times like these.... again IMO, does more to outline the true nature of someone in a few minutes than years of day to day chit chat does.

Prayers offered for all involved.

That has been done already. He did log into his facebook in Newtown this morning.

facebook page

His mom was a teacher at the school, but she was killed in her home in Newtown.

Here's your perp.

Picture Deleted -- [bleep] him.

Local reports are saying handguns and AR15 type rifle. My kids are 10 and 14, the 10's elementary school I can see from my back door and can not imagine having this happen, the town is about 25 miles from my house.

TRH, how can you argue politics when at least 18 small children are laying there dead in their classroom. I know, many kids die each day so don't give me that krap.

I figure the gunman has a front row seat with Lucifer himself and will burn for a long time.

Dude seriously....it's not all about you

Looks like he was into violent video games

http://www.facebook.com/masseffect?ref=stream

My youngest is 6. This chit breaks my heart.

What the he// is wrong with young white men these days?

Perps dad found dead in New Jersey.

I don't think that TRH was nearly the first one to bring up politics, if you count fundamental liberties as being such. I've got two kids who are in school right now and you gotta be concerned for your kids and sad for the ones affected. OTOH I'm sure the bad guys are already using this to call for more gun control. The Communists always use these tragedies for that.

The [bleep] in the pic, if that is indeed the monster who carried this out, looks like a card-carrying commie liberal. He puts you in mind of the guy who shot Geffords before he went with the orange 'do in order to snag an insanity defense plea.

Fox just reported that 20 little kids are dead.

What was your purpose in telling us what sorts of weapons were used? Are you able to halt your tears long enough to consider the larger implications? Shame on you, sir. Shame!You answered your own question. Every death of a child is a tragedy, but it happens constantly.Absolutely.

Wtf is this? If a black guy had done this and you said that you'd probably get arrested for some sort of hate mongering. Is this a joke?

yeah, cause young black and hispanic men are the models of behavior.

Probably on meds, didn't get his trophy, video gamer. Rot in hell you POS....

You folks started the attacks. I'm merely responding to them. Blame yourself if you don't like my rebuttals to your silly attacks.

True as that may be, most of these mass murderers and serial killers are white kids.

More than likely off his meds. The Psychologists back in the 80's wanted to medicate all these psychos and the politicians were more than willing to accommodate them because they could then shut down all the problematic old mental hospitals that needed a lot of money to upkeep and were mostly falling down anyway. This also placated the public who were fed story after story about the abuses wrought in such places. Now the crazies walk around on the streets voting liberal and taking up jobs that average guys aren't allowed to have anymore all the while gobbling psych meds in order to stay level. Sooner or later they always think they can go without their meds so they stop taking them and then the trouble starts.

That seems to be a common part of the profile, in many cases... electronic alter egos and a diminished capacity to connect with/deal with real people as anything other than objects.

mercy ...

I don't think violent video games can be discounted as a cause for this sort of thing. So many kids are obsessed with them.

The ratio of black murderers to the populuation is off the charts greater than white murderers. All you guys who have been defending blacks all along are sure quick to jump on the guy's race as a factor.

It was only a matter of time and now expect this to happen again?

Sad all the way around! Prayers to families and victims. Hope the POS is burning in hell as I type this!

At least we agree on one thing.

Look, I'm not here to argue and in the days to come, especially locally will hear about arming teachers, armed security, etc. My point here is that there are times to discuss these things and times not too.

TRH,

Video games do not kill people, blaming them or placing blame on them is no different than blaming the gun. Why must we always look for inanimate objects as the cause for these horrific acts. It was the act of a sick individual. You do see the hypocrisy in blaming a video game don't you?

If people want to get in, there is always a way in. Pure evil always seems to find the access point. Being the back door of a movie theater, or by breaking the window to a schools locked door.....

Sad situation here....I cant even fathom the grief caused by all of this.
Prayers that I thought I never would have to say go out to the families of the victims.

Hell needs to dig a deeper place for the SOB's who did this.....

Laws would not have stopped this. Only people could have stopped this.

I just saw on Fox News they are already calling to Renew the Assault Weapon Ban and the Dead aren't even cold. Democrats, never let a good crises go to waste.

+1

dickwad

looks like he hadd a manifesto, but it's either broken or taken down already.

A brother of this guy is being held as a possible 2nd shooter.
They think Lanza's girlfriend is missing.

Violent video games are a big problem. Kids live in them like they are reality. When reality smacks them in the face, they make it a game......

Good communists, like their mentor, always have a manifesto.

I dont waste energy discussing the dead bad guy.
My thoughts and deepest sympathy goes to all the families and friends whose lives just took a serious turn towards chaos.

I suffer with You.

Typical. [bleep] commies.

My son-in-law told me the U N gun treaty is coming up. He said the last time it came up there was a school shooting. Do we see a pattern?

Perp reportedly killed in father in Hoboken, as well as the mother.

He also killed his Father and Mother before the school shooting

I hope the evil prick that is still alive gets gutted like the hog he is for all to watch. I want to do it.

Nothing makes me angrier than hurting kids.

Originally Posted by Hondo64d

Yep. And until this happens:

If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

We can expect more of the same until HE returns.

John

Better buy yourself AR now if you want one.

Let the panic buying begin.

the question which keeps running through my brain is how does one kill innocent babies as they look at you?

i have cried much this afternoon.

may God bless their tiny souls.

Some dickwad put that facebook page up. It was updated less than an hours ago. Already dozens of pages going up from [bleep] up people.

I would like to see mental illness brought out in the open instead of treating it like it doesn't exist. People are afraid to come out and ask for help. Then they snap and do something like this.

I have young kids so this one hits close to home. It breaks my heart to think about those kids being scared for their lives and confused as this maniac gunned them down. This world is going to hell. I fear for my kids future like never before.

There is no sense to be made of this.

+1

AMEN!!!

Godspeed.


People will spend an endless amount of time attempting to find a rational explanation for such an irrational act and it will never be found.

prayers sent

Lanza's girlfriend and another woman are now said to be missing.

Evil walks among us...

My heart goes out to all that have been touched by this evil madness.

Foxnews reporting that Ryan Lanza was NOT the shooter. Adam Lanza, age 20, the younger brother was the shooter.

That about sums it up, no explanation will ever make sense to rational thinking people.

Disgusting.

What makes me sicker (if that's possible) is it looks like the whole class was hit.

In order to accomplish that, the murderer would have had to go into a classroom and shut the door, and then proceed to execute the little ones.

Random shooting at a school,..I think I could handle, but to execute children in that manner....

Gees,...pure Evil.!

Shooter was the age that schizophrenia typically begins. Almost certain that this was a mental health issue. Psychiatrist on Fox advised details on difficulty in dealing with mental health issues. If a mental health specialist advises authorities that an individual is an eminent risk to commit a crime or injure them selves first law enforcement must investigate. If law enforcement agrees then this individual is taken to a hospital or mental health facility. If the individual contends they are not violent or is evaluated as not being a risk insurance polices will not cover treatment. As a result many mental health specialist are reluctant to report individuals to authorities. This is the part of our laws that need to change to possible avert tragedies like this.

Honestly... why do you keep doing this? Everyone is willing to talk about your political rants in ANOTHER THREAD. This thread is here for an update and a place to discuss the tragedy that happened to innocent young children. People have asked you many times to just stop. Why cant you just let it go, and let people grieve together. If you are that gung ho about politics, get off the computer and go do something about it. Where is your decency?

Me too. Makes me wanna puke!

He thinks he is cool.

I saw the same thing when I searched his name on FB. Multiple new FB pages under the perp's name. Attention seekers and Widespread sickness.

TRH - You are a disgrace of a human and an embarrassment to the fire.


ddj

Report I see on Fox still identifies Ryan as the shooter. I saw another report that a brother was found dead in NJ, though?

You're a dick with no sense.

People making fake facebook pages need their fingers chopped off.

Leave it to the media and pretty soon they will say George Bush was the shooter

anit that the truth......sad chit

I can't believe the Media, Fox was interviewing a eight years old on the phone asking the kid what they saw and heard .

I now see that Fox has edited the story to name Adam instead of Ryan.

I know, interviewing little kids for shock value, they should be ashamed. Also what parent lets their 8 year old talk to reporters about this type of thing, WTF.

Yep. I caught that and found it appalling.

Phuggin media whores.

I have a tough time wrapping my head around killing people/kids that I don't know. I can almost understand when shooter shoots bad guy 2 because they had issues but innocent kids and people?

There are some very sick F&*%# out there.

The story will be so muddled by the end of the day that there will be 100 different versions of what happened.

So far i have heard the following reports.

2 shooters
1 shooter dead another in custody
Only one shooter
Ryan was the shooter
No Adam Was the shooter
Girlfriend is dead
Girlfriend is missing
Dad is dead
Mom is dead at home
Mom is dead at school
Mom is still alive
Brother is dead at another location
2 dead
20 dead
27 dead
26 dead
18 children and 8 adults dead
Kindergarten class dead
1st grade class dead
Shooter war body armor
Shooter had bullet proof vest
Shooter dressed in black

The fact is the ass holes will say anything they want, true or not, the end result will be that nobody will know what really happened. What a joke the media is these days.

Hannity, on the radio, just had a local Fox reporter say that Ryan, the older, was the one dead in the school.Adam, the 20 YO was the one found in the woods outside "wearing camo trousers".

It's not confirmed he ever entered the school.

It is all about making themselves a Media Star and Kids in Gun Free Zones like schools are easy and plentiful targets confined to a small area .

cnn commentator stressing the fact that we as a society must be aware of and to learn and recognise the signs of mental illness and violent anti-social behavior as the key to stopping this kind of thing before it happens. never even mentioned tighter gun control.....spot on

Your point is well taken. You would think with all the guns we have in Montana that there would be mass murders all over the place but there isn't.

State Police News Conference just over:

18 children dead inside the school.Two more died at the hospital.

7 adults, including shooter, dead at the school.

One adult dead at "secondary crime scene", believed to be the mother.

I'm sure the story will change a few more times before the details are finally sorted out.

FoxNews continuing to report that Adam Lanza, age 20 was the shooter and that Ryan Lanza, age 24 is in custody and not a suspect. If accurate, then Ryan Lanza needs prayers and support as well. Both his parents were just killed by his brother.

You studied mental illness and behavior in engineering school? You are qualified in psychodiagnostics?

It is likely that the perp had a screw loose, but is unlikely that he was schizophrenic. Schizophrenics are seldom violent. In fact, mental illness, even serious mental illness is not a reliable predictor of violence.

My guess is that the individual was an angry, fragile, self-absorbed, alienated type. I'm not sure what diagnosis that might entail in current diagnostic taxonomy.

Perhaps he was just consumed by evil. Whether evil is mental illness has been a matter of some debate among psychiatrists.

Paul

I also am praying for the first responders.
To witness that sort of carnage, especially children,will leave a lasting impression.

My thoughts and prayers go to the children and there families at Sandy Hook Elementary school.

Something that I feel also needs to be addressed in this mess is the impact on the LEO and medical personnel who responded to the scene.


I can't imagine having to walk in on a disaster like this and having to sort everything out.

May the Lord keep and comfort them also.

Who told you that?

I hope the other two are safe and sound too.

Absoluely. When I was FF/EMT some of the things we saw concerning children still haunt me and wake me up at night.

God bless the first responders....Police, FF and ER staff too.

+1. I imagine walking in on that scene is going to greatly affect them forever.

Damn that bastard - and I mean damn him.

Little kids!

Foxknews now reporting that the father is alive in New Jersey, not killed as earlier reported.

Mother killed at the school, body found at his home - girfriend not accounted for.

In my case, courses in psychopathology and two years working in a hospital conducting diagnostic evaluations. Not a field I stayed in, however.

Ask any mental health professional or look it up yourself.

Don't confuse the fact that certain individuals are violent with a generality.

A fairly recent major study at the medical school at the Univ. of NC looked at several factors as predictors of violent behavior. Mental illness was way down the list, not even statistically significant.

Paul

ME TOO!

he'll be taken to the woodshed and re-educated before the 6PM report. bet on it.

Shooter has been identified as Adam Lanza.

By whom? How about some links with these claims. Not saying you are wrong but I don't see it in the media I'm looking at.

I don't think so either.

By some of the media... based on anonymous sources who don't have permission to speak, and whose story has changed a dozen times in the last few hours.

While credible, best to wait.

There's something unfolding that makes this highly unfathomable to me as I read between the lines of what I am hearing on the news. The shooter fired in a very, "concentrated area" and now I understand that appears to be his mother's classroom. First responding law enforcement were overwhelmed by the number of rounds fired. There has also been reference made to nearly no wounded which is very unusual in this type shooting situation. What I am taking this to mean is that the shooter used up a high number of rounds shooting students in his mother's classroom over and over. I just don't know what to say.

That's what Hawk is trying to get across we have to be vigilant even in our grief because the anti-gunners are going to be hard at it even before the funerals.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/14/police-respond-to-shooting-at-connecticut-elementary-school/

As the father of 3 teenage boys, I can tell you that 95% of kids play violent video games. You wouldn't believe the grief I get for restricting my kids because apparently no other parent in the world does. And even the T rated games are violent, just no gore or extremely foul language.

So saying that it's video games is stupid. No more than saying that all the mass murders before video games were due to parents allowing their kids to play cowboys and indians and pretend to shoot people.

Actually, it's just as stupid as the anti's saying it's because of lax gun laws.

We get that DD but this ain't the thread to discuss that, there's several already in the works.

I thought that very thing on the drive home today. terrible impact on everyone involved.

Exactly, inanimate objects do not cause these things to happen. A video game is just a game, a movie is just a movie, and a gun is just a gun. None of them make people do things.

Funny thing is these are the same people who laugh a liberals when they talk about it being the guns fault, yet will turn around and say the same thing about video games, because, much like the liberals with guns banning violent video game wouldn't effect them.

Wife's best friend was over this last weekend, she lives right next door to this and has a kid in grade school. Froze my insides when I heard about it, finding out that her kid goes to a school in Danbury helped but I can't imagine the pain those families and that community is feeling.

My oldest is 20, and I still get worried when I hear about car wrecks locally until I know where he is.

Prayers to the families, first responders, other kids and the community.

That's true. We tend to ignore the effects on them when it's all over.

One reporter said there was a high caliber .223 rifle involved.

CNN also reports that a Bushmaster rifle was found at the scene along with the Glock and the Sig.

All afternoon, the local news anchor was calling it a "very large two hundred and twenty three caliber rifle".

No one said anything about banning video games violent or otherwise. Parents do need to understand the damage these games can do to developing minds and be on their guard.

I don't want to take this thread off track but this does need a thread of it's own.

Went up to my kids school and demanded the principal and I asked how my tax dollars were being used to protect my kids from 7:50-2:50 everyday

WTF is a high caliber .223.

And that's the truth in a nutshell.

It comes down to numbers and prediction.

Several shootings are committed with AR-15s, and get wide publicity, so they must be the problem. However, what is the percentage of such rifles used in crimes, maybe 2%?

Same with what is known about mental illness. A few persons proved to be mentally ill commit tragic and heinous crimes and it's all over the news, so we conclude that mental illness is the cause and ignore the fact that only a tiny portion of the total mentally ill population commits violent acts.

Some would say the same about veterans, who have to face the stigma because a few do bad things.

Same with video games. Influence of video games may be a factor in the behavior of some people, but not most who watch the games.

So on and on it goes, as we try to find answers to the unfathomable.

Paul

Well it isn't my experience. In Santa Cruz there are swarms of homeless, it is usually the mentally ill who go on the attack of their fellow homeless.

Paul,
There are a fair number of studies coming out recently and locally that contradict the notion that games have no significant effect. Not that I've read them but they have been publicized in your local media.

Extremely sad and there will be another wave of gun control.

That I oppose, but would support the heaviest of punishments for anyone committing a willful crime with a firearm. And I mean serious time. If anything, gun owners should climb on board such an effort.

That will never stop some of the nuts that come totally out of the blue, but might stop some of the young punks that start packing and threatening at an early age.

Question: As I have not been near any news. Did the shooter take himself out?

I too wonder what is the cause of these kinds of shootings. Bad parenting, hundreds of hours killing people of video games, how about the removal from ADD and ADHD drugs.

These tragedies will not stop until the real cause is found and corrected.

I played Cowboys and Indians as a kid and server in both law enforcement and the military but I would do my absolute best to keep from taking a life. Somewhere in the brains of these few something is really wrong. We must somehow find it and fix it.

Is anyone hearing that two pistols found inside the school and .223 found inside a car???

cnn now reports that there was no body in the Hoboken home. What a mess of misinformation.

Think about it, Barkhoff. The mentally ill who are among the homeless are not a representative sample of the mentally ill population. They are unable to cope, which is a major factor in their being homeless. Same with those who cause trouble requiring the attention of law enforcement. You don't see the majority who go about leading responsible lives, albeit with some degree of impairment.

Want to see dangerous mentally ill folk? Check a state mental hospital where the criminally insane are kept. I once served on a board with the assistant director of such an institution. Told about a patient who threatened to decapitate a staff member and roll his head down the hall, and did it. The most dangerous person I encountered in my brief hospital tenure wasn't even a psych. patient, he came from neurology.

Paul

BINGO....the hypocrisy is palpable.

Good on you....what did they say? (not meant to side track this thread)

UNC Chapel Hill ?

Any "study" that comes out of UNCCH will say what their political agenda wants it to say.


Mike

Exactly, he was clueless but tried to make it sound as ominous as Godzilla attacking Tokyo.

Interesting. I'd like to see the info from a credible source. The point I've been trying to make is the risk in generalizing, and the potential cost of pursuing solutions that may not be effective, even if just not cost effective in use of resources.

Trying to solve a major problem because it seems to make common sense or gives people a sense of security isn't the way to go, although it's politically tempting. Common sense gun control, anyone?

Paul

You really don't understand how academia works.

4:52 p.m: Ryan Lanza, 24, brother of gunman Adam Lanza, 20, tells authorities that his younger brother is autistic, or has Asperger syndrome and a �personality disorder.� Neighbors described the younger man to ABC as �odd� and displaying characteristics associated with obsessive-compulsive disorder.

Iz dat sew ?


Mike

Real cause? While there isn't just one, in my mind at the top of the list there is this:

Immediate fame.


Remove that, and I wonder how many of these younger mass murderers would even think about it.

I wouldn't know about that, but the study which was from the medical school didn't seem to have an agenda, it was about statistical prediction. I did note that race wasn't included among the factors studied, which makes you wonder.

But be that as it may, I mentioned this as one recent study. There have been decades of such research, and it all points to about the same things.

One thing is for damned sure, violent behavior is hard to predict, especially in the absence of previous such behavior. Would that it were otherwise, but there are high stakes in continuing to research the causes and to predict it before it occurs.

Paul

Paul,
You can probably surf it up on their webpages. Been coming out every so often over the last 2-3 yrs on a regular basis.

Do you need a license in the US to purchase a firearm? Does it vary from state to state? The media seems to make it like anyone can just either walk into a store and buy a firearm or order one off the internet.

Here in Canada we need to take a training course and then apply for a Posession and Acquisition License. We then have to fill out the following application:
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/form-formulaire/pdfs/5592-eng.pdf

Well if you are not attributing mental illness to Laughner, Holms, Cho, and now a guy who would execute a kindergarten class, I would be interested to here your theory.

Be interesting to know how violent behavior correlates with narcissistic personality disorder.

Interviews on the Sean Hannity show state the the school had just implemented a new security program. The school is locked down when class starts at 9:30. You have to be buzzed in to enter the school, and there was an armed security guard. Visual identification probably allowed the entry of this person, known to be the son of a teacher who worked there. He started shooting in the principals office and killed the principal, vice principal and counselor. He then went to an adjecent room and started shooting. That was the Kindergarten room.

You cant legislate this type of activity. If the teacher had gun issued by the school, the bad guy still has to come through the class room door. Hearing shots across the hall, she could have hidden behind her desk, or a pile of desks and just kept him from entering the room with gun fire. I know it isnt as easy as it sounds, but learning to protect yourself is the only way to stop these kind of events. He would have had a hard time getting through the door to execute children if he had to get through a shotgun blast every time he showed his face.

Given my experience with asbergers and autism, if this kid had a break and thought these children were somehow "taking his mother". It very well could cause this type of reaction. Now I am not saying that all with autism and/or asbergers are capable of doing this type of thing, even remotely. But if he displayed obsessive behavior as an aspect of his condition he would not see these children or adults as people as we do. He would merely see them as obstacles and bad people that took his mother's attention from him.

We will feel the effects of this for a very long time and things like this will continue to happen until people realize that a person who can take a gun point it at a childs face and pull the trigger is so far gone that no law will make a difference in they're decision.

Any one can take a gun into a gunfree zone and have complete control, All across the US any teacher who is willing, quallified and who has had intensive training should be carrying a gun while teaching a class, this gun free zone schit has to STOP!

This [bleep] coward was unknowingly allowed to kill these children and the only way to stop it is to make a school a saftey zone not a gunfree zone.

These [bleep] people have not protected our children and I hold not only the gunman responsible but also the people who had anything to do with this gunfree zone schit!

Common Sense is all you need for gun control and unfortunatly there does'nt seem to be much of that in this world anymore.

If this is true, it begs the question... what was he doing with guns, and how/where did he get them? Of course, that will come out in the coming days.

From what I heard earlier on fox is that they were registered to his mother. Given that he apparently did not live with her you cannot easily say she gave him access either.

".........how academia works."


Now that's an oxymoron to rank right up there with "military intelligence".

In other words if you have guns and people you cannot control/trust with a gun knows that, keep them in a safe except for the one you have direct control of. Better yet do not tell anyone even family members you would not trust with a gun.

You're missing the point. Of course there have been serious violent crimes committed by mentally ill persons, and they get wide publicity. That doesn't translate to a generalization that mental illness is a reliable predictor of violent behavior. You can't generalize from cases to the whole. The question is the incidence of violent behavior on the part of the mentally ill, vs. those without such conditions.

We will likely learn eventually what motivated this heinous crime.

The real practical problem is valid prediction. Determining causes after the fact is hard enough. Predicting future behavior is much more difficult.

Paul

This guy being an agent of the devil himself explains the whole deal.

Of course, if you are too "enlightened" to believe that EVIL exists, then you must keep searching for something else.

You walk into a store, see a gun you like, fill out a form, pass an instant background check that says you are not a felon nor have you been locked up for a mental disorder, pay your money and walk out if it is a long gun. Most states have some sort of waiting period, something like 3 to five days for handguns. But this kid was 20 and you must be 21 to buy a handgun.

If that is the case would he have killed her mother in that scenario, seems if he wanted to save her from the kids the last thing he would do is shoot here as well. Just thinking in my rational world.

And as with any small community such as this incident is reported to have happened in, it's entirely possible that some of the deceased were known and maybe even related to some of the first responders that entered the school building.

Not at all. If he thought his mother betrayed him by not giving him the attention he felt he deserved. He very much could have killed her in the moment then "went after" those he felt responsible for the whole thing. Asbergers sufferers often do not blame themselves for anything. Many times they are very self focused so it becomes what "these terrible people are doing to me".

Okay, thanks for the explanation.

Oh , academia works alright , insidiously , insidious enough to fool a lot of people.


Mike

I see. Thanks for the info.

Glad to help. I forgot one thing, if you have a concealed carry permit you have already had a background check and in most states can walk out without the waiting period. You still have to fill out the four page federal form and pass an instant background check but I walked into a store and walked out with a new 1911 in less than thirty minutes.

Not nearly so well as those that work so hard to fool themselves however.

I wonder why he killed himself then???? He must of felt responsible for something.....

You registered three years ago and you have 400+ posts and ask that question? You pulled up a link to the requirements in Canada and damn sure could have typed your question into Google but you know the answer....stop being a trolling dickhead!

Absolutely horrifying. Been staring out the window all day wanting to puke. Those poor families. And this school has more safety measures than any I have heard of. I drove by my kids school after hearing this and watched them playing on recess...only a 4 foot fence separating them from a major highway. Anyone with a gun or a knife could jump the fence and cause this type of horror. Of course it could be the mall, church or movie theater also. Keep em home forever?

I guess you'd know about that one.

Mike

my heart goes out to those affected by this horrible atrocity.

but there's to be mucho collateral damage as well.

if you choose to arm yourself or bear arms in this society, it's going to become exceedingly difficult to do so.

you may indeed have to make the choice whether you remain law abiding or not.

+1

Ryan Lanza is apparently the shooter's brother. Adam Lanza is the shooter (according to CBS news).

Penny

NOt only must be 21, but if he lived in NJ you have to pass a mental health and criminal background check. 3 references. it often takes months to do the background hceck, and rarely under a month.

That permit is good for one handgun for 90 days only. once it expires, the entire process must be repeated.

It took me 9 months to get a final approval/permit for a handgun last year.
Time it takes to complete background hceck varies tremendously by municipality, but the rules are the same.

GFY

Thanks for providing this detailed explanation. Nine months seems like a very long time for a law-abiding citizen to wait for a permit to purchase a handgun.

my heart breaks for those innocent families........

There is a place for sale just down the road from me. My carry permit took eight days from the time I applied until it came in the mail but that is because there was a three day weekend in the middle.

I can carry almost everywhere even schools but just for drop off or pick up, not in the building and every bar that that does not have the "no one under 21" sign on the door. We can even use hollow points.

I do fill sorry for those who live in states like NJ.

...as do mine and my wife's. Tears keep welling up for those innocents.

This is truly a sad day., our hearts go out to the parents.

Sad also is that it will be turned into a political ploy and used for some sort of gun control.

I'm betting we will find out, eventually, that this guy has some mental "issues' that someone knew about and would not or could not talk about.

Did you hear the President's comments??

It's being reported now that all the firearms recovered so far were traced and show they are legally registered to the mother of the shooter and not the shooter himself.

It is 100% due to liberal progressives who delay the prcess. I have been told this by LEO.

3 weeks to a month in one town, close to a year in another. 2A is near dead in NJ.

That too is illegal. He is not a CT resident, he cannot be in possession of her guns without her there.

Guess that law didnt help either.

So every ninety days you have to have a mental evaluation?

You can bet that slob of a governor will jump on Obama's bandwagon.

If you want to apply for another permit.

No one mentally evaluates you 1 on 1. they apparantly do it via calling your employer, your references, and running your prints.

No. As I understand it, you have 90 days to use a permit once it is issued. After that period of time, you must start the process over again to obtain another permit.

Obviously not since according to recent news reports it sounds like that he probably took his mother out first.

truthfully for other than the boy scouts amongst us, how many of you guys if they outlawed guns forever tomorrow and you turned yours in.

and THEN decided you wanted to obtain one illegally, how long or how many generations do you think it would take before it would be extremely unlikelt to be able to do so?


after 9-11 TSA seemed to be the answer we got, though I think it's folly

I'm inclined the answer we get to these mass shootings may not make much practical sense either.

That is correct. You can also appeal for a 1 time extension of the 90 day permit for an additional 90 days. It is up to the Police Chiefs discretion as to whether they want to grant the extension or if you have to reapply for a new permit (which is good for 90 days).

Here's another angle on the mental illness issue.

Not only do these incidents and the reporting thereof lead to an overestimation of mental illness as a factor in violent behavior, but as a corollary it is overused as an excuse.

Very few forms of mental illness "make" people do things. The vast majority of even seriously mentally ill persons are moral and capable of responsible behavior, however impaired they may be. It follows that most can and should be held accountable.

To a large extent I blame defense attorneys for this. I realize that they have an ethical obligation to vigorously defend their clients, but some stop at nothing to twist and spin in order to create doubt, even at the expense of truth. Also blame the "experts" who whore themselves out. Same with the "off his meds" argument. True, it can and does happen, but far less frequently than most believe. Stopping meds usually just allows the symptoms to come back, it doesn't create new behavior. There was a case in Iowa where a farmer shot his neighbor in cold blood in a classic case of land greed. The defense tried to claim self defense, and argued that the victim had been treated for depression, and was "off his meds." Blame the dead victim. Total BS.

Believe it or not, the strongest predictor of violence is being a young male, but nobody would claim that most young males are violent, or try to ban gun ownership for those under 40.

I also believe, but can't prove, that there are fads and fashions in how people act out their pathology, and that there is an element of copycat in these mass shootings. I don't know how you can predict which unstable individuals are going to be influenced to such an extreme by external factors.

Paul

But you're so [bleep] brite you are going to tell us. LOL

Simply unbelievable the amount of armchair quarterbacking and pontificating about irrelevant or unimportant sheit...

I have friends that have lost young children in accidents or to disease... their lives shattered, and in at least one case never recovered emotionally. I cannot think of a greater loss, a greater shock or a more difficult trauma from which to recover.

Our thoughts and prayers should be to the victims, their families, their community, and to our country which has suffered another grievous tragedy and unimaginable heart-wrenching loss.

There will be a time for discussion about policy and politics.... this is not it.

Well finally got the good news all the kids we know that attended the school are safe.

I haveget never tried to be an internet tough guy, just a live and let live south Alabama country boy. Having said that, I would literally give my left testicle to get this guy alone in a room for 5 min. If he wouldn't have taken the cowards way out.

Prayers sent

x10000

Thanks for saying it... you beat me to it.

Some people have no class...

1. Suppose like everyone else here, what was "anger" at hearing the first reports of a school shooting turned to a deflating, hollowing sorrow on later learning the details. Kindergartners. TWENTY.

2. Can we have an honest discourse on the common themes? Laughner. Theater guy. Norway camp killer. Now this (reportedly) aspergers and/or personality disordered guy. All mentally disordered and on the street. A Fox guest pyschologist was just on, half-heartedly defending firearms before pivoting to blame the stigmatization of mental health (or seeking of care).

Think she obliquely has a point, but propose the problem is insufficiently aggressive care of the mentally ill, from parents to the means for inpatient care, but not "stigma". "Outpatient care" of the mentally ill is in vogue, mostly cost-saving masquerading as advances in medicine and "compassion". These killers, to a one if am not mistaken, were known nuts given a pass to live among us.

Don't know the answer for how to address it, but there it is.

As of a short time ago, those eighteen small, lifeless,precious, bodies were still in that classroom.

And the parents will have to go in and legally identify each one.

THAT's hard to think about.

Im just like deflave on this one.

Cant talk about it.

Cant even begin to wrap my mind around it...

Yes.

I did a three gun-shop search this evening before I found a Ruger Mini-14 "Tactical Model." I've been thinking that I wanted one recently, and figured if I don't find it today I will likely not get one before the fear of a new Assault Weapon Ban dries up the supply completely. Fortunately, I found one store that had one left (The other two stores basically told me that, after the shooting that happened today, I can forget about finding one today, or getting one in the near future). Also picked up more 31 round Glock 9mm mags, S&W M&P-22 (25 round) mags, Ruger-made 30 round Mini-14 mags, and Magpul AR-15 mags.

Hard to imagine, short of CIA Project MKULTRA mind control.

My wife and I have two girls, 9 and 12. We hugged both this afternoon and told them what had happened.

My wife is a Kindergarten school teacher. She has been heartbroken this afternoon.

As a family, we will say a prayer for everyone involved tonight. It won't help one bit to ease the pain of those involved today, but we do believe God will help them with that.

==============

There are some things in life Tom that we simply can't wrap our minds around them. Some things in life occur with no logical explanation whatsoever.

I think we will come to learn that this was one F'd up, dysfunctional household.

After about 8 months of legal wrangling, I just today got a adoption order entered on behalf of a once childless couple who are now the proud parents of 10,6 and 4 year olds. I left court and, of course, this news saturated the airwaves. Made my mind wander all over the place on the "what if" side of things.

This world is upside down, man!

You sound like the little old lady from Pasadena. Get over yourself.

Bob, there are those things in life that are too sad, or too awful to talk about. For all those responders, parents, families today...this is both.

My heart and prayers go out to all those impacted by this atrocity. That said, and please don't take this as anything other than my own feelings my friend, it's too important and tragic for me to not talk about with my son.

Connor is almost 8 and fully understands what Dad does. I spent my entire day on on the side of the road, alone, trying to put together what/how I was going to address this and I'm still not sure I did it right.

There are evil [bleep] animals in this world and I hate that my kid has to be exposed to that, but there it is.

George

A significant percentage of the posts in this thread have deviated from mere condolences. You and your ilk, however, are selective in your criticism of said departures. And who are you to tell folks what angles on this tragedy are permitted to be discussed in this particular thread?

Thank You,......

........and thanks thrown up that the two other sprouts rode this out. been thinking on THAT one all afternoon.

Penny

you need psychiatric help...please seek it out.

Forgive my speculation but I feel we'll come to learn these guns were straw purchases by mom or maybe older brother. According to older brother, shooter has a history of mental illness.

When you couple a kid whose wiring is lost in the abyss with the disjointed enabling of others, it's fairly easy to write the last few chapters of the biography.

First of all, shame on you for your departure from expressing condolences, which I'm told is all that's permitted in this thread, but second of all, in the US private sales of most firearms are unregulated in most places, as it should be regarding all firearms.

A co-worker of mine has a neice who attends that school and somehow survived as the shooter passed by her....

I can't even begin to imagine what these parents and kids are going through.

They have the shoters brother in custody as he was also in the school at the same time.

Unbelievable sequence of events and there is no place you can count on as being safe anymore.

I heard on the news that the guns were bought by the perps mother.

Thanks penny,

I turned the news off, some things are just to sorrowful
Then I do think some venting on other threads has helped me to escape the pain I feel, if even for a little while.
So sad, I have not the words to begin to express it.

What a selfish and cowardly act.

I cannot begin to imagine what the parents of the murdered children are going through.

Even from a distance, I've had to dry my eyes more than once today.

About says it all.

They have the shoters brother in custody as he was also in the school at the same time.
============

Is that accurate? I thought he was being questioned in NJ and he's not linked his brother's actions, except for gun purchases, maybe.

Doesn't that just some it up?

Wrong. Federal firearms laws regarding transactions are there in black and white and apply in every state.

This one is gonna hurt for a long time.

I'm with you shane.....Sad sad day....

Well like I said earlier somewhere on this forum, I went up to the school today and demanded the principal, I wanted to know how my tax dollars were being used to protect my kids.

We spoke for 20 minutes

I got no good answers

Hell they don't even lock all the doors at the school. I walked right in.

Drop dead. Your ulterior motives are pretty glaring. Furthermore, I specifically referred to private sales, so you're wrong.

And there are laws regarding private sales. Age, residency requirements, not being aware of felony convictions... any of that ring a bell?

EDITED to respectfully lower my tone.

Shut yours.


PS You err to the extent you contradict my statement regarding most private sales being largely unregulated.

Amen

There exist rules on private transactions regardless of what you believe TRH. Read them sometime.

Out of respect for my fellow Nutmeggers who have to endure the biggest loss one can imagine I will refrain from slinging mud.

I think you did just fine. Kids need to know that there is right and wrong and even good and evil in this world and that we all need to work for whats right and good and its never too early to know this. Hang in there man and keep up the good work.

Brother is in NJ. Shooter had his I.D. Guns where owned by the mother who was also killed. Local officials made mention of mental illness, but I did not hear who they where speaking of.

I've waited to weigh in. Partly because as a human I cannot fathom how someone could execute children like that.

As a cop all I can think is I wish I could have been there to stop it.

I hugged my step daughter a little tighter and longer before I left for work tonight. God bless those little angels.


And godddamn you TRH for your rhetoric here.

For most private sales of most firearms, no regulations apply.Too late.

First, my thoughts and prayers go out to the families who lost loved ones in this tragedy. I, like everyone else, can't wrap my mind around this. I have 4 kids between 2 and 12 years of age and cannot fathom the loss of one, no matter the circumstances. I don't know how the people will pickup the pieces, but I pray that they will find the path. I hope that the murderer and his soul finds nothing but pain and suffering on the other side. Please remember to hold your family tight tonight and always.

You are wrong TRH. There are FEDERAL regulations concerning all transactions including FTF private sales. Age and residency being two easy ones to understand... for most.

Hey, idiot, do you understand the word most?

Shooters mother was a kindergarten teacher. Many people apparently knew him and was therefore easy to get in.

My kids school is no different. If they know you, they buzz you in. What we need is 1 full time police officer and metal detectors at the schools.

NOTHING is more important than keeping our kids safe.

Prayers sent for all of those touched by this.

PLEASE DONT FEED THE TROLLS!

More TSA?

What the [bleep] are you arguing about?????

The shooters mother legally owned the guns. Easily procured by their psycho [bleep] son.

TRH was attempting to mislead another poster here (post #7184249) that there exists no regulation here in the US regarding "most" private firearms transactions. He is wrong. ALL transactions have rules.

Wrestling with a pig got me quite muddy...

You have a problem with that?

I will even add K9 units to keep the [bleep] drugs out of the schools too.

Bottom line is kids should not be in harms way and be in fear of going to school

I'm sure you've sent your kids to school for years without police officers, and drugs have been around for 50 years, but today you want body guards?

leo's, please,just answer me this....why do those poor children's bodies have to stay there for what,maybe 48hrs now they are saying....just more horror for the families....

Documentation, you.only get one chance to document a crime scene. Shooter dead or not. The evidence still needs to.be.collected and processed and the.story.that evidence holds has to.be.layed out.

There is another thread that addresses this. The short answer is that crime scene techs get only one chance to document a scene.
Unfortunately the more complicated the scene, they longer it takes. Even though it is assumed the perp is dead, no one knows what subsequent investigation might yield. A second shooter?

If the scene is not handled properly, questions may never be answered and attorneys could have a field day.

sorry, it should not take two days.......its just not right....

Your right it isn't, but that if that is what it takes that is what must be done. I stood guard over a fallen officer, who was a friend of.mine for.more than 12 hours.

50 years ago it was a different world......

Hey look, I don't know you or where you live. Though schitt happens where you live, I doubt it's like here...

Not looking for body guards and I highly doubt you have a full understanding of what I am talking about. This ain't about politics, .gov involvement or any of that BS.

Today is proof that kids are not safe in schools and this is not the first time. With metal detectors and police officer, those kids would have lived to enjoy another Christmas.

I sure as hell won't argue that point with you.

Yep, mostly two parent families, paddles in school and at home, church on Sunday, People knowing and caring about each other-- at least thats what I saw.

While I agree their chances would have been greatly improved it is not a given. Wasn't it Columbine where an officer died. I may be wrong as my brain is old but I remember some officer giving his life to try to stop shooters.

This is crazy, those bodies are still in the school...
I'm praying for those families.

I thought you didn't have a TV.Where do you go to watch those cop shows?

I don't have a TV but I can read papers, listen to the news, and if I remember right got it first from the Campfire.

Are you trying to tell me Columbine was a reality show?

No there aren't. There aren't Federal requirements and most freedom-loving states don't have state requirements. Hawkeye is right and you're wrong.

And no video games.

You might be right Scott, but no one can say it would hurt the situation. Personally, I would not feel it to be an infringement of any of my rights. Columbine was a little different with two shooters I believe.

My only point is that it's too easy to get to our kids. Any of our kids, anywhere.

I agree it would be a whole lot better than nothing and could save a lot of lives. I am in favor of saving lives.

Who gives a [bleep]! This is what you guy's are thinking about?

Please open another thread and go bash your heads over there.