Originally Posted by CoalCracker
I ask this because I have seen threads in the handgun forum and elsewhere suggesting that your run-of-the-mill, life-long "gun guy" really shouldn't even consider self-defense with a firearm unless they have a high level of expensive civilian training or LEO/military training. But I am of the opinion that if I really needed a gun, nothing else would suffice, and I wonder whether being around guns since almost forever, coupled with a dose of common sense, would be "good enough".


I can't speak for Brad or others, but I think the difference is consequence management. If you flub a shot on a deer, there's only minor consequences. Outside of sanctioned combat, the consequences of firing on another person are severe, even if you're vindicated, as a civilian. In uniform, we get a pass by the populace because we're shooting at "enemies" and not "people." In every case as a civilian, be prepared to face additional scrutiny from all corners on the use of lethal force.

As Heidi Smith, she of Thunder Ranch, likes to opine, "there's a lawyer attached to every bullet. How many lawyers to you want to let loose?"

I guess it's down to this, in a combat situation and I shoot the guy and its on the edge, it will be perceived to be a righteous shooting unless there's strong evidence otherwise. As a civilian, if I pull my weapon, there had better be a significant amount of evidence that I was in fear for my life or limb before I fire, and the "fear" bar is much higher. The statute of limitations on murder is forever, and if at any time any authority who may have had jurisdiction over the shooting determines there was foul play, you'll have to defend yourself in court again.

Double jeopardy, sadly, has been interpreted as a jurisdictional thing. Meaning, the City gets a shot at you, then the county, then the state, then the US for a civil rights violation.

Extensive training as a civilian is valuable if for no other reason than learning this, paraphrased from Jeff Cooper:

Did you shoot to kill?
"no"
Did you shoot to wound?"
"no."
Then why did you shoot XYZ ### number of times?
"He did ____ that put me in fear for my life."
So you shot him until he was dead?
"No. I shot him until he stopped doing that. Then I called 911 and rendered first aid."

Also, training teaches you to yell things like "Stop! Stop! Drop the knife! Someone call the police." And how to draw your weapon in a manner that causes the aggressor to correctly interpret your willingness to shoot them (not shoot at them, shoot them. They look different) and to cause the aggressor to retreat, which is better for everybody.

Frankly, it doesn't really matter if you shoot first or yell first (well, yell first is preferred), most witnesses will remember yelling and shooting, in that order. Thank God for preconditioning by cop shows.

In a civilian on civilian situation, you're never really done.

Don't even get me started on what happens when you try to return to your "normal" civilian life and everyone knows you shot someone. There's volumes and volumes to suggest you'll never get your life back.

Last edited by David_Walter; 09/12/12.

“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General
John Stark.