Agreed to purchase a LNIB firearm from a well know Campfire Member. Firearm arrived at my FFL with box in Duct Tape, incomplete as minus bipod and magazine and case. Firearm was well used with marks and scratches all over it. Also arrived with substantial FFL issues. FFL is kind that can ship but cannot receive. Contact with this well respected Campfire member is very entertaining to include substantial correspondence with many half truths, accusations and failure to provide the missing parts. I am forced to accept the discrepant firearm because it cannot be returned.

Guys-beware when you agree to purchase any firearm from a anyone and make sure that you know what kind of FFL its coming from. As Always let the buyer beware.

Can we see a link to this particular classified ad?

Never heard of an FFL that can ship but not receive. I'd question that claim if I were you.

Rod

Wow. A charger with no bipod or mag is pretty much...................
Unreal.
Then top it off with a "FFL" that can only "send". That alone is laughable........
Sorry to hear this.

+1

I certainly don't know all the ins and outs of being an FFL, but I've never heard of this either.

I'm also somewhat curious to know why you didn't directly call out the member? If the deal was as bad as you describe, others should know who the offending party is. You surely knew that would be one of the first questions to come up when you started the thread?

This doesn't make any sense, so far.

Need more info.

The FFL it was shipped to should be able to return it to whoever sent it

The dishonest one was not the seller, but the buyer. I can put the whole pile of PM's back and forth, plus e-mails in this thread but preffered to not make a public spectacle of this mess.

I have a C&R FFL. I can ship a modern handgun anywhere, like any of you all can, but the dealer at the other end cannot ship a modern handgun back to a C&R only FFL holder. Simple as that.

Short version is this:

I saw an ad from the OP stating :

WTB-Ruger 22 Charger Pistol LNIB *****
MissouriEd Online content
Campfire Guide

Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 3094
Loc: Between somewhere and nowhere
*** You are ignoring this user ***
Toggle the display of this post

I Wish to purchase a Ruger 22 Charger Pistol LNIB. Will pay cash, certified check, Money Order, credit card and Paypal (might even sweeten the deal with momma and the dog). PM me please with details. Thank you for looking."

A cousin of mine had one, so I allowed him to use it as trade bait for something I had, AFTER sending photos of the gun to the poster who agreed to purchase this gun. I did not and do not want a Ruger Charger pistol. Photos shoowed a scope and a bipod,, this poster said he wanted the pistol only so that is what I sent.

When the handgun arrived, I was told that there were pieces of the FFL missing somehow. I had taped the FFL in an envelope I believe, to the outside of the box as I had forgotten to put the FFL inside. Apparently some of the numbers and expiration date were missing or illegible. The VERY MOMENT I recieved notice of this, I e-mailed whole and complete copies of my C&R FFL to the poster and to his gun shop.

I was told then that I had not put in a magazine. I was SURE that I had, but no problem there either as I would ship one out immmediately.

Missouri Ed then proclaimed BEFORE I had a chance to rectify a couple of small problems that he was going to send the gun (that i did not want) back for a refund (that I do not HAVE!) spent the money, honey. On a set of used tires for my wifes car. The only reason I was selling off some good guns that I would rather have kept. After all, there was no free look offer, I had sent photos, the deal was DONE as far as I was concerned.

When I told Mr. Ed here that I would fix the problems quickly, he still declined and told me

"THE GUN IS ALREADY ON ITS WAY BACK TO YOU"

THAT, MY freinds, was a bald faced LIE. I know this because his FFL dealer called me on Monday and asked if I had a different FFL to send a modern handgun to because he could not ship this to a C&R... This, AFTER Mr. Ed here told me the gun was ALREADY EN ROUTE to me.

At this date, I have purchased and packaged up to be sent a new Ruger Magazine to the FFL, he now has a complete copy of my C&R FFL. I will send him via e-mail or fax or snail mail a copy of my drivers license and more if he wants it, but he has stated that Ed can pick up his pistol any time. The dealer ALSO stated that he thought Ed here was doing me dirty by declining a gun he had ASKED to buy, and which I had sent, and when I was MORE than willing and quick to rectify any problems to make Ed happy even to the point of buying a brand new Ruger magazine which is all boxed up and ready to go out today.

I can post up every one of the PM's and e-mails between Ed and me, and the Dealer and me, happily. But this is the short version.

I had NOT planned to bring this up in the open forum, I simply told Ed that he could pick up his gun, but that I was blockinig his e-mail address and putting his handle here on IGNORE as I did not wish to further talk with a proven liar who wanted to renig on a deal done. I DID say that I would stay in touch with his dealer in case something more is needed to accomplish the transfer.

the gun is NOT scratched up, the photos were accurate, and I don't know how Ed could even KNOW of the condition of the gun as the last I heard he had not picked it up. Maybe he did get it this morning, but when I sent it it looked like the photos as in like new.

I hope I don't have to post all of the crap Ed put into e-mails and messages here. It will not look good for him, and I was willing to let it go, but certainly ignoring him moving forward because of his dirty dealing and proven lying...

Ed, your like new gun is YOURS, and the magazine (which I SWORE I put in the box, but may have accidentally missed it) is in a box and addressed to be shipped out today.

MARK

I agree. This sounds odd, if u are going to make an issue public, throw out all the details and names. Spence

Edit to my above, based on the above post which wasn't there when I typed my first statement, it seems pretty clear. If a return clause was not stipulated and agreed to before hand, one should not expect it.

All sales final wasn't specified, and you spent the money before ensuring satisfaction?

Kinda how I see it.

SDwhirlwind will be along any moment now to once again call me a narrcisistic hipocryte. About the only two descriptive adjectives he knows, in reading his old posts about me and several others (who most assuredly are not either of those things) here at the 'fire

Sound like a s-show so far.

Yep. He had seen the photos, I had sent the gun, car needed tires (bought used ones) and spent the money. No return policy was specified, but when pictures are sent first, and the gun is one that was specifically requested by the buyer, no reason to think it is not going to be a done , did, deal.

Times are tough enough around here that ANY money we get is pre spent before it even gets here. At gunbroker there is a box to check "As is, no returns" and I use it. I was hoping that here such a policy would not be needed, but maybe I need to start putting that in my replies etc.

This forum used to be a place where friends bought, sold and traded and tried to get along plus give each other a little grace like my perhaps forgetting to put the magazine in the box (All $10.00 worth - the horror!) and allowing a guy to fix any little snags if one was discovered. Like me IMMEDIATELY e-mailing complete copies of the documents needed the very MOMENT I learned that they were needed in this case, to BOTH parties.... I have had this go both ways, about evenly.

Stuff like this is pushing me to Gunbroker and other sites all the more, and I used to really love trading and buying and selling here.

Unless you specified no returns, be prepared for a return.

Let's see some pictures.

AGREED!

Which is why I, the potentially injured and lied to party, chose to keep this on the down low and merely put Mr. Ed on ignore and move along with my life. Keep it between the two of us. Unfortunate that it got brought up here as these threads have a way of deteriorating and becoming uglier than intended or needed. Usually getting excrement on all involved. I wish it had not come up, but since it did, I thought the details should then be spelled out.

If this goes on for too very long I will post up all of the conversations as I mentioned above. I hope I don't have to do that. Mr Ed has or can go get his gun, a new Ruger magazine is on its way, I don't see what the fuss is all about at this late date. I solved/fixed what was needing to be fixed as fast as was humanly possible.

Not if there were accurate photos sent first, like there were. No sir. Wrong answer there.

Bipod too?

If buyer was displeased, for whatever reason, and no terms of warranty were specified, you are on the hook.

Really?

Good luck!

Again, if photos are sent and accurate, and no return policy specified or requested, I respectfully disagree. I honored my part of the deal, no reason for a refund.

I never spend the money till the buyer tells me he is happy.

Buyer asked for a price for the pistol only. I have him a low price reflecting that and he accepted.

That's what I was thinking, and what if it never makes it there? Gotta be able to finish the deal not just start it.

I wish I had that luxury, more than that I wish that I did not have to sell off as many nice guns that I would much rather have kept over the last months, to buy basic needs and pay bills. But wishin don't make it true.

If there had been a free look period requested, or otherwise specified I would have done that. But every deal I have done before was over once an item was delivered and was as advertised or in the photos.

Yep. Even in no return deals, here..

That's fine. For you.

Don't let desperation impair your judgment.

Like not spending the money BEFORE your customer was happy, and wanted to send it back?

Once again, we have folks who were not intimately involved, getting involved. Which is why when MR. Ed first tried to renig on his deal, I did not bring it up here, and kept it between the two of us, though the thought DID cross my mind more than once.

.... sounds like buyer got the SHAFT

All members here are entitled to know who the deadbeats are. Not saying you are one, but you might want to reexamine your ethics.

Seriously, I can take great pictures of a completely unserviceable rig. Pix are only part of a transaction, and unless terms are specified, satisfaction on the buyer's part cannot be overlooked due to your financial circumstances.

Well, mine was an off-hand observation probably not worth adding, but since you have taken it up, I'll bite. It doesn't seem to me like you are an injured party or lied to from what has been posted. In what way have you been injured? The OP didn't even add your name to the discussion. As for being lied to, it sounds like the OP did all he could to send the package back, as he cannot legally drop it in the mail, correct? So he gave it to his FFL and asked that it be returned, that could be easily represented as "I've sent it back." Perhaps "I've refused delivery" would be more accurate, as he cannot legally sent it back. Seems like a pickle, and he seemed to accurately describe his situation as being out the money with little recourse and will end up in possession of a firearm that he clearly does not wish to own. Who is the injured party? Not my business, but it doesn't look like you!

BTW, if I were the receiving FFL dealer, I would be put off by having to take emailed paperwork. Doesn't he need original copies?

Where is the O/P he is not replying back after his half ass pissing post

The OP might be pissing, but the seller sure isn't helping to make that clear.

.

Sounds like he's not going to be happy in any regard and decided to move on. Can't blame him for that.

I'd say OP is doing things right .... said his piece and now sitting back to see what comes of it.

Hopefully seller makes this right.

All I'll say is, more and more lately you sound like a professional victim. Are you an Obama voter?

Mike,

Potentially injured is what I said, by being asked to take back a gun for no good reason(s). Lied to in that I was told that the situation could not be rectified and that it was too late to send anything to the FFL because the gun was "already on its way"... that was the lie. Differnt from, "I have left the gun with the FFL and asked him to return it"

If he did not wish to own the firearm, he could have easily NOT put up the ad asking to buy one, requesting photos, then sending the money. Several times and ways to not "end up with the gun" if he did not want it for some reason. IME, Most Dealers are just fine with e-mailed copies of drivers licenses or FFL's or whatever. There was a signed copy with the handgun that was somehow damaged in transit, or during the opening of the packaging and this was beyond my control and therefore not a reason to refund, but rather a need to repair and get the needed document to the dealer which I did with all due haste. I offered to re send it via Fax, overnight mail or e-mail and the dealer gave me an e-maill address then called me to tell me it was recieved and AOK.

To avoid issues like this, I ALWAYS offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee. I've sold a bunch of stuff on the internet. I've had one item returned, and it was a high dollar rifle. The guy that returned it sent me well over $200 worth of bullets gratuitous for the hassle free transaction. I later sold the rifle to a satisfied buyer for MORE than the first go around.

Crap like this just isn't worth dealing with. Nobody wins.

I'd also be curious to know how that handgun was shipped? It also seems that being the middleman in the deal could be perceived as making one a "dealer". I think I'd be doing my damndest to make things right.

Right from the BATF's webpage:

Q: Does a collector�s license afford any privileges to the licensee with respect to acquiring or disposing of firearms other than curios or relics in interstate or foreign commerce?

No. A licensed collector has the same status under the Gun Control Act (GCA) as a nonlicensee except for transactions in curio or relic firearms.

[27 CFR 478.93]

Q: What does �engaged in the business� mean?

The term �engaged in the business,� as applicable to a firearms dealer, is defined as a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.

[27 CFR 478.11]

OP, post pics showing "scratches all over it". O/w its just he said/she said.

Safari, you made my "do not deal with" list.

Your situation is clouding what should be very basic good judgment and ethics.

Now I know why ffl's charge you to ship your sh**

+1...
I can link myriad postings of sellers health and money problems, to the point where fire members have financially helped, and then i read the "I'll take it's" like for the pistols earlier this week.

I am a big time believer in helping those in need, but guys have been played and laid by this guy for a long time. I just shake my head.

Exactly right. I too have had 1 item returned, no sweat and eventually traded it to JB who even wrote an article about the rifle.

I've never typed 100% satisfaction guaranteed as I've always assumed it was understood in any transaction amongst men.

Why would you state no returns-that itself seems fishy.Why would be selling on gun broker or other sites be different?Lets see some pictures.

Here's a damn interesting quote from that pistol thread:

This is the second thread like this w/safariman as an involved party that I have read on the last 2 months. That leads me to believe if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck its prprobably a duck. I have now started a do not deal list. Thanks

If you are talking about me, the guns I claimed were on a "the money is coming later" deal which the seller accepted and which I appreciated. He was aware that I had no cash on hand at the moment I was trying to make the purchase. He has accepted a pay later offer. I am grateful for that, and will honor it in the time frame that he and I agreed on.

I have never asked for anything from anybody, it has been now a very long time since Ringman put up a lets help Safariman post which I asked him to immediately take down, and he did. I have been doing my damndest to take care of my own stuff by sellinig off stuff in order to make bills while I have been unable to work, and have even had to mostly quit hunting unlessss I have a lot of folks around to assist me. This is very embarrasing and humbling to me. I also did not ask for Failing Kidneys, thought I would work in my proffesions until at least into my 60's. My disease and condition is inherited and not treatable and getting worse.

I put NO RETURN on my gunbroker deals because I describe them accurately, use many photos, and I am only selling because I am pretty needful of the money. I would love to have kept the guns I have had to sell, but sell them I do to keep the boat afloat. Once I have the cash, it is pre spent.

I have allowed return's one or two guns or other items IIRC, but this was because there was a reasonable reason to do so. Not the case in this scenario.

+100

Duly noted as well!

Took me about three deals before I learned I do not want to deal any more.

This is the only way I will do business.

I sure wont' do business with someone who thinks otherwise.
And this is not Gun Broker. It's between gentlemen.




Well said.

That sign reads like blood in snow. And get over the [bleep] victim stance!

I have an ffl (gunsmith) I am restricted by county zoning regulations in regards to my business license. I can ship and receive guns but not sell or transfer. feds don't care other than a provision that says I have to follow state and local laws.

Mark I would still buy from you with confidence..

Safariman,

Didn't you have another issue with a lever gun too?

Dink

Didn't intend to sell that, and have not done so. 444matt PM'ed me about it first, and because he is one of what I consider the good guys here and I have had positive PM's and conversations with him in the past, I told him that if he really wanted it, maybe we could work something out.

He declined until further notice so I will be keeping that one as planned as a replacement for a different gun I sold during hard(er) times.

+1

So you have or will have money for a new to you pistol (actually two, one of which it's obvious you already tried to turn for a profit before it's even paid for or in your possession), but don't have money to make things right with the OP, gotchya. I think I'd quit digging.

Don't know if this is more entertaining.......... or more educational.
I guess you have to pay for education....one way or another.

Mark,

I kinda agree w/ the OP and a few of the others that if the buyer was not completely happy, just send him back the money. Just a thought, maybe ask the buyer to sell or send back the pistol. If he sends it back, you can sell it and make payments to him for any due money.

I sure would hate to see someone get a bad reputation like yourself on any future deals.

Just a thought.

Steve

1 this is not gunbroker
2 yep, used to be
3 perhaps this would work out better for you

JMO but if I post a WTB ad and someone goes through the trouble to locate the item I am looking for and then trading to get it after I have agreed to purchase said item after viewing photos, I'm going to assume it's a done deal with no returns unless there is a SERIOUS discrepancy between the photos and the actual item. After all, this started out as a buyer hoping to find something specific, not as the seller putting an item out there for sale.

Photos being posted by the buyer and the seller on this thread would answer that question.

Anything I sell on 24hr can be returned. Why?.... To remain on the good guy list & keep a good selling reputation so I can continue getting rid of stuff I don't use.

Safariman, scrape up the cash & return the firearm. It's the right thing to do IMO.

Again, you leave sign Ray Charles could follow. Sure seems to me if a guy was being such a stand-up guy and letting a buddy in on a good deal, he'd step out of the transaction and let his buddy deal with the seller directly, rather than having a middleman. Try and spin it however you want, but it's painfully obvious it wasn't about helping a buddy out.

Mark,

I do not know you personally and I do not believe I have ever had dealings with you before but you are in the wrong. If the buyer is not happy then when he returns the pistol do the fair thing and return his money minus shipping. You are in a losing battle here.

As for you already spending the money on used tires for your wifes car.......so what? Your issue not his. If money is so tight then why did you buy 2 pistols on 12/13/13 and state you sent FFL and money that date. I am not buying your story. You have a problem, actually several, and need to fix them ASAP.

wow. how many times does a guy have to prove himself before he gets the slightest benefit of the doubt?

no one else's business when he bought what.

the point is he has done a million favors and been there to help many many times and the TWO times someone has had a complaint they whined about it in public instead of letting him fix it.

wth would someone not just go buy a gun they want, or go to gunbroker or whatever. the dude asked for a gun, mark found one and helped get it for him, and the dude now wants a refund. this ain't walmart.

+1 Is there any other way?

Did you read the part where he's refusing to fix it? And there's an old saying about a Bridge Builder....

These type of threads educate me on who and who not to do business with here.

Mark, you sure do seem to be a nice guy, but I know that I would never consider buying anything from you or dealing with you. Way too much drama in your posts. I do wish the very best in prosperity and health in the new year.

My exact thoughts after reading his threads the last few months. Medical and money issues on one thread, sending a rifle off the be rebarrelled to a fancy wildcat on another thread. I'll steer clear

Same here....money can't be too tight or he wouldn't be getting a custom 6.5 built.

This is a great policy to follow. However, I have been in a tight spot before....we all have. I have spent money before that I didn't have(credit card). I am not going to disperidge Mark or cast stones at him. I have never walked in his shoes.
Mark is a good friend of mine here on the fire. He has done several very nice things for me. I have also been witness to him doing great things for others here as well. I am personally going to give him the benefit of the doubt because of his past history with me as well as others. Two bad transactions out of the several hundred does not make him a bad apple...much less dishonest.

Give him his money back, make it good and be done with it.

If you read the original or first post on that deal, I TRADED for everything, barrel, labor and all. Gave up a nice gun to get an old one re done.

That said, I am PMing the OP, taking him off of ignore, and will see what I can do here to make the situation better.

RE not "fixing" things, I DID forward a good FFL immediately when asked to and have purchased the magazine that was somehow missing to be re sent. How much more 'fixing' is needed?

12/24: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth..._FS_11_guns_something_for_ev#Post8393507

Sorry ya'll, I am sending FFL and $$ for the Smith 65 and Blackhawk first thing in the AM.

MARK

this says it better than i did. must be nice to never be in a tight spot or to not know what it's like to need money.

nobody's business what he bought or built. point is, is he honest or not. and that's been addressed and proven hundreds of times here. let the man do what he thinks is right. none of us really KNOWS everyone on here. none of us knows every fact. all we can do is go by the posts and actions. when someone has 5000 good against 2 "bad" which are subjective, i am not too worried.

THE KNIFE ADDS IN CAPS LOCK ARE WAY BETTER THAN THIS WISHY WASHY CRAP . You made my list as well when paying advertisers with 100% satisfied customers gets called out because you did not like caps lock in his adds you had to know carma was going to bite your azz . HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA . You had this coming enjoy

I've been in plenty of tight spots and have needed money more than a few times in my life.

What I will not do is sell my integrity, not for $10 or $10 million, period.

Communication is KING, if I was in that tight I spot I'd tell the guy that I'm spending the money the moment I got it and let him know that if he wasn't happy with the item then I'd find a way to get the money back to him. I'd not tell him that nor attempt to say I have a 'No return policy' after the fact.

Integrity don't go out the window with me, regardless of my financial situation. A man has to have one thing he will never sell.

Maybe if you'd sold your trade bait instead of putting it into a custom rifle you might be better off. I've got tons of sympathy for someone that has fallen on hard times and I've seen you do nice things for others around here, but if money and medical issues are an issue, I'd suggest custom rifles aren't going to help things much whether you "trade" into them or pay cash

I agree whole-heartedly with this right here!!!!!!!!

steelie, can't argue with that point. i agree and i feel the same about my integrity. it just leaves a bad taste to see so many copying posts and piling on when they have no skin in the game and don't even know the people involved.

I'm also not saying which side is right on this as I don't know. What I am saying is that you will always have a 100% return policy with me and I'll not deal with anyone that thinks otherwise.

If you want to spend the money I send because you're in a bad spot, TELL ME. If I'm not happy with the item then tell me you'll figure out a way to come up with the money I sent.

I've held guns for months for people. A time or two I never received it, never made a post, only a note, but they were the exception.

I can give a person time, but I've yet to be in a situation where a phone call amongst MEN has not been able to work things out.

Good point,, that last one. I have PM'ed Ed about making this right to the best of my ability, taking him off of ignore at the same time. RE talkinig like MEN, it would have helped immeasurably if I had been given even a modicum of time to make things right that were considered by him to be wrong. I would have done what needed be done by him even if I thought that I did not need to. I have done this before, even to the point of sending an entire whole shotgun - and a good one at that - to a member here to even out a deal that he thought he was coming up short on, even though I disagreed with him.

I would have done the same with Ed, if given a bit of opportunity, and am trying this approach with him once again.

I have no doubt it will work out.

I've dealt with Mark before, therefore here is my puppy dog in this hunt......
Don't sell Mark short. He will do the right thing.
"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone".
John

I sure hope so. I did not intend to harm him in any way to begin with. Will do what I can to make it good, and this has been my hope from the day he bought the pistol. I will see what his reply is, if any.

Its always best to keep ones name out of the spot light. People can sour quickly and become suspicious. Maybe its sheer volume, but your name keeps popping up on here.

So that's why you put him on ignore?! Here's a hearty, GFY!

Like it pops up all over the rest of 24hrcf. I spend quite a bit of time here, and used to be pretty active here in the classifieds. Hundreds of happy deals over a ten year period, but if you deal with people often enough, no matter how hard you try, there will always be one or two who cannot be pleased by any reasonable measure.

And, this place and the folks who populate it HAS changed from the friendly place it used to be, with more sour notes and really stupid call out threads (this one included) than was ever the case before.

Did you know that when you buy a Ruger Charger,they come with the bipod from the factory,so if he bought "just the gun" then it should have the bipod too.Once again,I don't see eye to eye with Mark or his way of doing business,so I won't add anything else to this,but as a brand new Ruger Charger purchaser,I thought I would inform him of what comes with the "gun".

It's your story; but a full refund always makes for a happy ending.

I tend not to put people on ignore that I just sold something to either.

Reminds of standing in line behind a woman at ____-Mart with two carts. One loaded with bread, cheese, milk, cereal, etc. she'll pay for with food stamps, EBT Card, WIC. And the second loaded with pop, beer, chips, steaks and smokes that she'll pay cash for; cash that she probably "traded" for.

I appreciate that. I have offered to make that one of the options for making the deal a good one, so far no answer.

TFF! I busted out laughing on this.

I didn't, for weeks. I did that when he was caught lying to me and was just being a turd about the whole thing. Not communicating or giving any opportunity to make the deal correct.

Remember the little scumbag who ripped off goatsie and then tried to post the make-believe Polaris quad on here? "blackbear" or something of the like? I presume Rick banned him...
Mark, you coddled that known-liar to your bosom with a deal on that Polaris, and as expected you were stood up after posting updates on the liars journey across the country to make his deal with you.
It was all bullsh*t as expected, you were had.

The point is, maybe you try to be a decent guy, but to all of the wrong people.


It would have been cool to forego that pistol (and profits, oy) and allow 444Matt to buy that hand gun out of sheer karma and good will here on this forum.

I was tempted at one time to send money your way for health/money issues--hey sh*t happens, I have been there; but I then realized your wheeling and dealing on other forums didn't add up, it looked like a scam job to me.

MissouriEd with his 3000+ postings should be given the benefit of the doubt. He's been shafted.

Glad your gonna work it out SM. Hey you never know.... You may buy something on 24hr someday & wish to return it.

Well,OH CHOSEN ONE....seeing as how you just couldn't help yourself with taking another dig at me you selfrighteous p&ick I will be more than happy to emphasize what I have proclaimed about you in the past! Since you are such a smart basturd and seem to know many more "adjectives" to lie your way out of your crooked misleading chit deals I will once again reiterate what I think of you and your antics!

YOU are ALWAYS a victim!
YOU are ALWAYS correct and truthfull as far as you are concerned!
YOU are ALWAYS using the excuse you NEED money whenever something like this comes up!
Everyone else ALWAYS misunderstood and it is NEVER YOU!
YOU are ALWAYS trying to get your fanboy club to cover for you and make excuses for you!
YOU are ALWAYS having to sell something to pay a bill but ALWAYS have the money to jump on a good deal a few days later! (rags to riches every week huh Markie?) Sounds like an excuse to wheel and deal freely on the net to me?


Once again I will state the same as I did the first time I made a comment to you about how you do business and treat others, hence, why I use the "adjective" "narcissistic"! You are a liar, either directly or indirectly! You claim to be a Christian but actually hide behind that self given title to give others a false sense of security and hope they feel guilty for thinking anything other! You use your health and financial situation to make deals both buying and selling. You are conducting an illegal business buying and selling firearms and d*mn sure not paying sales tax, income tax etc from those internet and gunshow dealings. Heck, you even admit you only have a C&R so if true how can you legally ship a handgun?

Seems a lot more good gents on this forum are realizing what a true douche you are, along with being a compulsive liar and victim. Not many 'Markie Sack Suckers' following you around cleaning up your reputation as a few years back! Would bet most of what I own that if everyone knew who you really are like my gut and instincts tell me about you that your 24hr pajama parties could be held in a pretty small bedroom! You can 'pretend' a lot on the net can't you Mark?

Find a thread where someone is questioning my reputation before you take cheap shots at me! Must be your great Christian upbringing that you attempt to use to take the heat off yourself when caught eh??

So....post another smiley face you narcissistic self righteous chit pile!!

Yep!!! I've seen his posts for years and I grew weary of him a long time ago. He has now officially made the ignore list.

Reno

This is a tough deal. The condition of a gun is subjective and what is great condition to one may seem rough to another. Without seeing Safariman's pictures and the buyer's pictures it's impossible to pass judgment. Could it be that the buyer found a better deal or is simply suffering buyer's remorse? I have done business with Safariman several times and found him to be a man of his word.

I've never considered "new" or "like new" to be subjective. A person learns a lot in threads like these.

I agree but this is not an isolated instance with him. I know of other deals with some of my friends on here that did not go smoothly either. Not everyone puts it out in the public for all to see. I see the people come to defend Mark and that is their choice. For me, I have made mine. That is all. That is a right we all have for the time being.

Guys,

I have had multiple dealings with Mark. I have never had any problems. His descriptions were right on and his prices for the item and for shipping was fair. I know Mark is not in the best financial shape right now and this may have clouded his decision. However, it sounds like the OP might have gotten mad or just changed his mind. Maybe he found a better deal. I don't know and I don't care. I say we cut Mark some slack and let him make it right. I would buy from him tomorrow without hesitation if he had something I needed.

Just my $0.02.

Jim

It's true that we all have different opinions of Mark. However, the fire starter here has yet to do more the ignite the discussion. I would like to hear more from his side of the story in all fairness.

Sure, there are always 2 sides. The below is pretty bad to me and reason enough to never purchase. Might be a reason I never have in the past either.

Hmmmm.. As many here will use post count as the measure of ones integrity, how do you find the guilty party here..

I sure as f*ck not gonna buy a pair of Geovids from a member with 20 post.

... unless he had a trustworthy name like Ricky Bobby

Well since my name got brought into this...

It pretty much happened just like Mark said.

He beat me out on a blackhawk by 2 minutes in a for sale thread. I PM'd Mark to see if there was any deal we could work out on it.

By the time he returned my PM I had decided to spend the money on something else (tires). Told him if he wanted to sell it down the road to let me know.


No clue who is right or wrong here, seems odd that the OP has started this thread with the accusations and not posted any evidence like pictures or PM/Email traffic.

Hope it can all be worked out.

Yep, I got told I was pretty much a piece of schit the other day because I didn't have 20,000 post.

Laughin'

You're about the biggest piece of it I've met.


Learned a long time ago not to judge a book by it's cover.

The only correct response to this is a full refund, including all shipping charges.

You'd only be a piece of schit if you misrepresented an item, and then refused to refund the money paid.

Well that ain't gonna happen with me. . . . .I probably have more good deals on here than post. . . . .lol

More of Bill's POS behavior from another thread for those that don't know him:

Rancho Loco,

On two occasions now you have expressed your opinion as procedure protocol for sales in "The Fire"; that a buyer may return an item he agreed to purchase unless the seller specified non returnable. Please share with us the documentation you base that position on.

Most of the sell/Buy venues I am familiar with is in direct variance with your opinion.

In any case your personal opinion could serve as a warning to all.

Tack

Guys I do not have a dog in this fight but in reading the original post there was no mention of the name of the seller, I took the post as a warning to be cautious even when buying from a well known campfire member. Safariman vountarily drug himself into this when he made his post attempting to absolve himself. I thought that it showed a touch of class on the OP's part to refrain from posting the sellers name and instead post a caution.

About the only reason I read Safarimans ads is to see what new reason he has to sell the item that he is advertising. It is fairly obvious that he is acting as an unlicensed dealer and plays the sympathy card in almost every ad. Even though I have been interested in a couple of items of his that in itself has kept me from dealing with him.

As far as the OP not getting back into this mess - once again I think it shows a bit of class on his part. I see that the OP has posted the pistol for sale on the Classifieds with a full description and terms of sale. It looks to me as though this gives the original seller(Safariman) an opportunity to salvage some of his reputation by posting an "I'll take it" and having a check waiting for Missouri Ed when he gets home.


" FS-Ruger Charger Missing Parts
MissouriEd
Campfire Guide

Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 3096
Loc: Between somewhere and nowhere Well gents I am the owner of a fine Ruger Charger, missing magazine, the OEM bipod and the Ruger logo case. It is nonfunctional as is. There are scratches and heavy scuff marks on the barrel and stock, screws are buggered up. I will provide a 5 day non firing inspection (like you can really test fire).

No disclaimer applies here guys this thing needs work.

There is a 100% satisfaction guarantee on this sale. I will gladly refund all of your funds upon receipt of the firearm in like condition. Price is $295 via certified funds or Paypal. I pay the fees.

Seriously, if someone is really interested I will get pic to you after 14 Jan. I put the gun in storage late this morning. I'm going deer hunting and to DSC so can't ship firearm until 14 Jan 2014."

The op has made another post

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth..._FS_Ruger_Charger_Missing_Pa#Post8402897

I haven't sold any guns here, but this sounds like the safest policy.

Seems like the neighborhood has gone to hell.

If one leaves blanks in business dealings, someone is bound to fill them in as they see fit. Since there are no official rules on this site, it seems smart to set things straight up front.

Just how I've seen it buying and selling chit on the net since around 1995.

YMMV, and people are free to put me on a chit list. But I think you'll be looking pretty hard to find a buy/sell I've been involved in that has gone to chit.

I heart Rancho Loco.

(There is no "heart smiley")


Travis

Reminds one of Wisconsin.



Iceman

As a follow up, I have received a PM from the seller. I'm having trouble gauging the sincerity of the PM, especially when the first part is dedicated to what he ain't gonna do. I've just decided to move on and put the gun up for sale. I'll put a mag in it and sell it for whatever I can get.

Your Jealously is showing, again....

You send Cutler a sympathy card yet?

Auction it off in the Hunter's Campfire as a "Help safariman charity." Will likely fetch $12K when all is said and done.


Travis

I don't speak Wisconsineese.


Iceman

Thanks, duck!

That'd be the Christian thing to do.

Only way I roll.



Iceman

Mark, this doesn't square at all. You knowingly put a disgruntled buyer on ignore and "moved on with your life", but hoped this would all stay between the two of you? You've been around the block long enough to know better and then want to play the victim card when the inevitable thread is posted? Be really, really honest with yourself and tell me if that's the right play to make?

Isn't the bipod included as part of a Charger pistol from the factory? This isn't some add-on, so it's crap of you to pull off the bipod and claim it wasn't mentioned as part of the deal.

You seem like a genuinely nice guy Mark, but I've seen more than one of your "sales" turn into a royal mess. Usually, they involve you playing the role of an intermediary trying to skim a bit of profit out of a deal that doesn't involve your own personal gear. You're your own man, but if I were in your shoes I'd stick with only my own gear and take a bit more ownership of things when they don't go as planned.

His PM should've included three things:

1- A tracking number for delivery of your refund, plus return shipping.
2- The address of the FFL where he wants the POS sent back to.
3- An apology for wasting your time.

Agreed

What a chitstorm!!

This is very educational for a new guy!

Educational if a guy wants to learn how to chit in his bed......

"That's right Iceman....................I am dangerous"

Good deal. So now you gotta tell us what you learned. OK?




I used to know a Don Dinsmore back in the dark ages. You ain't him, are you?

When I have had hard times I sure as heck don't buy anything>>>.
That's the time to tuck in and sell off our things that we need to, not spend time, money, or labor we don't have enough of on toys.
TOYS if You can't afford to pay for them in cash You can't afford them.....

I just came across this post and am somewhat confused. It was my understanding that a C&R FFL could not ship and/or receive modern firearms, such as the Ruger Charger. Am I missing something here?

Originally Posted By: Dinsmore1
This is very educational for a new guy!


Good deal. So now you gotta tell us what you learned. OK?
I used to know a Don Dinsmore back in the dark ages. You ain't him, are you?

I have learned some things never change when buying and selling firearms.
No I'm not Don Dinsmore, just a name of a place I own.

GFY.

That's an education.


Iceman

A C&R type FFL doesn't do a thing for him in this case.

Q: What is a firearm curio or relic?

Firearm curios or relics include firearms which have special value to collectors because they possess some qualities not ordinarily associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

Have been manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof; or
Be certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; or
Derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or from the fact of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.

[27 CFR 478.11]

Q: Is there a specific license that permits a collector to acquire firearms in interstate commerce?

Yes. The person may obtain a collector�s license; however, this license applies only to transactions in curio or relic firearms. The principal advantage of a collector�s license is that a licensed collector can acquire curios or relics in interstate commerce.

[27 CFR 478.41(c), (d), 478.50(b) and 478.93]

Q: How does one get a collector�s license?

Submit ATF F 5310.16 (Form 7CR), Application for License (Collector of Curios or Relics), with the appropriate fee in accordance with the instructions on the form. These forms may be obtained from the Firearms and Explosives Licensing Center in Atlanta, Georgia, your local ATF office, or downloaded from ATF�s Internet site (www.atf.gov).

[27 CFR 478.41(c)]

Q: Does a collector�s license afford any privileges to the licensee with respect to acquiring or disposing of firearms other than curios or relics in interstate or foreign commerce?

No. A licensed collector has the same status under the Gun Control Act (GCA) as a nonlicensee except for transactions in curio or relic firearm

Gettin educated is pretty easy around here.

I think we're all missing something here.

It's called honesty.

Honesty is what makes the world go 'round; and when one decides to forego honesty when dealing with folks, the proverbial 'web we weave' may trap us.

And that is what God was trying to convey when he sent Christ to this earth to die for our sins, and I think sometimes people forget that.


Iceman

PS-That whole load of schit about honesty goes out the window when dealing with DUI checkpoints and when trying to bury the hatchet into a mildly intoxicated bleeder. I'm not going to expound on what "hatchet" really means. But it rhymes with COCK.

Think I know what you mean flave, I tried it once. Didn't go well. The boys in blue had me flying cargo planes fulla rubber chit outta Hong Kong..

What this thing needs is some Bricktop!

Thanks for the sermon.....

Guess I'm a little late to the dance. And I'm still a relative newby here on the Fire. I've logged on almost 3 years ago, at the recommendation of a few Texas & Colorado Members that were good friends that I know personally. And I've really enjoyed the couple of hours I tend to spend on here every day while I'm watching the TV every evening. And I would like to think I've made some really good friends & have met quite a few nice Fire Members who are like minded & enjoy the same kind of outdoor activities that I do. As in Hunting, Fishing, Camping, Reloading, Shooting, and Gun Collecting.

In the short time I've been a Campfire Member, I have bought and sold only a few things in the Free Classified Section. Probably only about 12 items total that I have either bought or sold. And so far, I've NEVER had a bad experience with ANY Campfire Member that I've done a transaction with. Ever transaction has gone forward without a hitch, and I've been very pleased with the Fire Members that I've had the pleasure to trade with.
And Mark, or SafariMan is one of the Fire Members that I've had the pleasure to deal with. I didn't know Mark from Adam, but I found him to be very honest & upfront about every detail of our transaction. He was very detail oriented and meticulous in the description of the Item, and as i requested, he also sent pictures via email showing the item in great detail, just as it was.

I also found Mark to be very reliable, and he did exactly what he said he would do. The Item was much better than he described, and he also Included some additional items free of charge that were accessories that he could have easily sold elsewhere. And they were not cheap items!
He also included some free ammo to test out in one of my 10mm pistols. During our transaction, I had a financial situation come up that kept me from including a check for $200.00 as part of our trade that I was sending to Mark. It took me a couple of weeks to get the extra money to him, and he was very gracious and understanding & simply told me to send him the money whenever I could. I found Mark to be an outstanding man of his word & honor, and I would not hesitate to buy anything from him. Period.

As I also would not hesitate to do business with any Campfire Member who I've done business with previously here on the Campfire. I've met some great people here on the Fire, and I've also learned quite a bit about the character of my fellow Campfire Members.
I've seen numerous Members here on the Fire help one another just because it was the right thing to do, and also help and aid other people whom they didn't even know. And I'm very proud and honored to call those members my friend and fellow Patriots. And they would be Welcome at my CampFire, anytime.

^^^^^^^^^ This...

Was a 10-22 mag and a charger bipod in them 'additional' goodies by chance, was there?

All this christianity talk is giving me a hard on!!

No, but that's funny right there. It was a dozen handmade Cedar Arrows and a custom Leather Quiver & and bow accessories after we got to talking about Primitive Archery.

I disagree with this, how many flea markets or gun shows have you been to that the sellers would accept a return on something after you carried it around building for an hour??? That is all this site, or any other site is for that matter are ONLINE GUN SHOWS/Flea Markets! I do not agree at all on a return policy on "used" items, but I also do not think that items should be misrepresented either. That is why I try to describe everything as best as I can before I sell it.

Best post in this entire thread!!
+1[i][/i][u][/u]

I have seen guns on gunbroker that they list as "excellent condition" and the pictures show a gun that looks like it has been dragged down a gravel road behind a truck

I do hope you are not comparing the Free Classifieds as a gun show or a flea market even though many of the sellers here do consider it as such.

I do notice however you have spent much time in the classifieds since you joined less than a year ago.

My position as well, and all of this internet stuff is not going to change that part of it. I not only described it correctly but sent photos. I owe the man a magazine, and one is being sent. If all Ruger Chargers had a bipod, then I have offered to find and send one of those as well.

Every gun shop and pawn shop I have ever gone to around here had a no returns on guns and ammo policy. There is a place to state that on gunbroker ads and I do. I might need to make that clear on selling items here, if I decide to continue to do so.

The sad part of all this is, if the buyer had simply PM'ed or e-mailed me that he believed that bipod should be part of the deal and that I had missed putting a magazine in there I would have sent him what I am sending him now, with no drama or troubles.

Ed has PM'ed me that he has picked up his gun, and is moving on. I am sending the magazine that I forgot to put in the box (actually a brand new one I bought before this thread was started) and looking for a bipod to get and send once I determine that all of them came with one.

Other than sending the items mentioned to make the deal as right as I can, I am moving on as well. This fiasco over very little has absorbed too much time and energy already.

Yeah, I'm still waiting on pictures too..Geesh!!

Don't confuse gun shows with Internet forums,

at a gun show I can physically examine said piece in person. Removes all doubt.

Interesting...stories like this make me less likely to use gunbroker because of what people think they can get away with there.

JP

Mark, do you NOT believe that all the Chargers came with a bipod and a soft case and the magazine,come on now,you sell more chit than anyone I know and pretend to know a lot about guns,put on your big boy panties and make it right,don't continue to play the stupid game,you know as well as I do that these guns came with the bipod and the soft case and the magazine.If truly you didn't then maybe you should list it as is and state you are not sure what comes with it...No more bullchit,man up....

No I am not comparing it per-se to a gun show or flea market but essentially isn't it the same thing just in an online format?? I understand there are many friends here (as well as all the local insider trading at gun shows that goes on) so when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of it that when you are buying a used item it is just that USED and no one really knows the entire history of said item and differences in condition vary greatly from one person to the next

Thank you for this post. I've had the pleasure of spending time in Mark's company and have been blessed by his generosity.

Reopening the lines of communication was the right thing to do and it doesn't surprise me in the least that he did that.

Like Steelhead said, I'm sure that this will all work out.

Forgot the FFL,
Forgot the Bipod,
Forgot the magazine,
Forgot buyer asked for New condition,
"it's my Cousins gun"
I suddenly needed new tires, drove 12,000 miles yesterday.
No returns, even though I never said "no returns".

Seriously?

Sorry Mark, this is a lead balloon, ain't gonna fly.

Sometimes the Holy Spirit overtakes me and I punch a woman.


Travis

Yeah and unfortunately my bank account shows it!!!!

Never had a Ruger Charger, don't like 'em. Never seen a soft case for one, either. And niether the case (which I have offered to try to obtain) nor the bipod (same deal as the case) was EVER mentioned by the buyer until today, almost a week to the day after this all started.

If Ed had mentioned these things to me as reasons for his dissapointment, man to man, we could have worked all of this out easily. I have been willing to do so since he first PM'ed me about the paperwork problem and led me to beleive that this was the ONLY problem with the gun and him picking it up, until today.

As has been said here many times before, a little communication (I got none until this thread about bi Pods or Cases or scratches) can solve a lot of problems.

If you can physically hold and examine/evaluate a gun on a internet forum, you have more talent than I.

Wanna buy some once-fired brass?

Was 'Ignore' the right thing to do? Misrepresentation? Shorting parts?

Doesn't that surprise you in the least?

I'm not as optimistic as steelhead, but I don't think this deal is going to work out, unless you're referring to the seller.

I bought some once at a gun show, it looked great in person, felt smooth in my hands! but every case was dry rotted and ripped apart in my press....some people lol

There was bad communication, that happens. I've been guilty of the same.

We all have, and if you haven't, you will be at some point if you deal with todays public

I've been around here for a while and my memories of Safariman are of a stand up guy that has a history of being generous.
Mr. Ed I don't recall but I wouldn't hesitate to deal with either of them.
I suspect this could have been handled better if there wasn't some rush to anger, being stiff necked, and both sides generally pissed off.
I've been known to react much the same, often to my regret when I cooled down a bit
I'd suggest both do a reboot and start over.

Guess I always assumed that if I was looking for something LNIB, I'd get all the crap that came in the box. Glad I've done been edumacated.

Done a fair amount of buyin and sellin on GB as well, and I will NOT bid on anything that has no inspection period. Photo's can include or exclude what ever the seller wants. If the seller isn't confident enough in his firearm offer an inspection period, that is enough of a red flag for me to stay away. If I'm selling, I may not specify an inspection period simply because for me, it is always implied. I don't want anyone unhappy with something they get from me, so if a refund is what they want, that is what they will get.

What I can see with topic is one person diggin a hole, and it just keeps gettin deeper and deeper.

He ignored the guy and blocked his emails? If that isnt a big old FU I dont know what is. Eds a much bigger man than I woulda been.

I walked downstairs to see if I could figure out what a LNIB RUGER CHARGER would look like. I was successful.

Did you read my post or just the first line?

Neither, you just happened to be the dipschit above me. Sorry?

How, may I ask, could he communicate with a guy who cut him off? I also want to know why you cut off communication with a guy you now claim was satisfied with the gun? That doesn't make any sense.

Sure it does, if youre an [bleep] who was out to [bleep] someone. Marks been around guns long enough to know what came with the gun, what to package with the gun, and how to complete an honest transaction. You really think he would have had a change of heart of Ed didnt post here about the situation? Ed would still be on ignore and emails blocked.

Hey knock that off, that was Stick/Boxer's gun. He was checking the gun for durability.

Hell NO... Breakin it in..

I think he actually called it "barrel break in"..

Like I posted a couple of times already in this thread, it ain't exactly hard to read sign and see exactly what he's all about. His stories are so full of holes it's ridiculous. Reminds me of a four year old trying to lie their way out when caught with their hand in the cookie jar, only difference is a four year old will eventually realize they've been caught. Pretty funny when one can't keep up with their own lies.

And it wouldn't surprise me one bit after reading his posts that the pictures he sent weren't poached off the 'net, especially now he's claiming he has to locate another bipod. [bleep] simply doesn't add up.

I did not cut him off until I figured out that he could not be made happy, and had lied to me about the status of the gun. I attempted the communication about what the problems were and he only reffered to the FFL being incomplete until TODAY. No mention of a bi pod or case or anything else other than the magazine and the missing pieces on the damaged copy sent. I fixed the FFL problem immediately, and went looking for a Factory new magazine, finding one yesterday to buy and ship.

I was taught to give a guy an out to take once he's been defeated. If he chooses not to take it, the subsequent results are on him. Guess we'll find out soon enough how this one plays out.

Exactly. It ain't about getting knocked down... it's about getting up.

Sorry, but what I'm gettin out of this thread is he coulda been made happy with a REFUND!

You said you had purchased the magazine "Even before" he asked for he asked for one. I hope all your friends still believe what you are saying. Like posted above about the bipod, you forget your lies!!!

Wow, you should take a step back and think about what you are doing on the internet, begging looks bad!!!!

And we differ in our opinions on whether that was neccesary or appropriate. Not going to let this mess change my mind on that point.

I have told no lies, nor begged in any way shape or fashion. Only standing my ground on the no need to refund stance. I believe that I am right on this, and have no need to apologize for that.

If some of you would have handled it different, then you go ahead and handle things different when or of it is you. This is me and my family I am taking care of and I am making the gun deal as right as can be done short of the refund idea.

If the OP didn't receive a LNIB Charger, a refund is the only acceptable remedy. Do you still say the Charger was in that condition when you shipped it?

For your reputations sake, refund the man his money.

Hey there, Partner Just a little free advice. When your "Quoting" another members "quote" and then you edit that "quote" before you post it, you need to pay a little more attention.

You left my user name, chlinstructor, in on HugAJackass's quote. Easy mistake to make when your editing someone else's quote, but it made it look like HugAJackasses quote was my quote. Not a problem, this time, but it could be easily misconstrued. Just Sayin

Holy balls.. Did someone equate an internet transaction with a F2F?

That's almost as good as safari's attempts at redemption.

Pictures?

I require nor request any 'redemption' from you or the other dog pile participants here.

Cases and opinions have been stated, know it all fight mongers have opined who have no skin in the game. Typical of these types of call out threads, with lots of folks who have not walked in either pair of shoes taking sides without enough information and throwing stones.

Human nature at a low moment, I suppose.

I'd say its gonna be tough for Mark on here from now on. Any prospective buyer does a simple post search and they will find this. Earlier he said he waited weeks before he blocked the OP. Then later on he states the whole thing has been going on a week. Hmmmm. It's gettin deep in here. Mark keeps on a diggin that hole though. In his mind he is still right and if he needs the money then it doesn't matter what he does to get it. That's the Christian way, you know. Oh wait, I guess that is Marks Christian ways. Lol. He is such a joke. I don't understand how he has buffaloed so many people here through the years.

Reno

Holy smokes! Well safariman has pics he has said it several times so he should post up those pics. I do more buying than selling and i have been pretty lucky dealing with folks on here. What safariman fails to realize the op said this ruger charger is scratched up stock looks like [bleep]. Apparanty my definition and safariman defintion of LNIB are worlds apart. When i do sell a rifle i hold the money for a few days just in case something like this happens.

I'm just shocked that safarman is caught up in such a deal..Shocked I tell ya!

Mark,

I have a Bi-Pod from a Ruger Charger if you need one to make the deal right. I don't have the Ruger zip-up case. I sold the stock and barrel. I made my wife a target rifle with the receiver / 20" Green Mountain barrel / Hogue stock.



Ken

Did I just read all 21 pages of this...?

I cant believe this thread is still going.

Exactly what i was just thinking.

There is one thing I failed to see in those 21 pages. copies of the pm's between the seller and the buyer as well as a lack of pictures proving the accusations.

So common you two, Give us the pm's so we all can make a FACTUAL JUDGEMENT instead of speculating.

You two are simply digging a deeper hole by just running your mouths and not showing proof.

This is not face to face dealings so a refund is in order. I've read more than one thread about how safariman [bleep] me and I'll probably get to read more unless batf gets him for unlicensed interstate gun trafficking. All the "I'm so sick " bs is just that. Safariman is just a gun hustler using the free classified market here on the 24hr campfire. One minute he's so poor he can't afford tires and the next he's building a custom rifle and buying more guns to sell for profit. If you buy from safariman you might get what you paid for or you might not but he will only make it right when you call him out publicly and then it's a big if.

Did someone really compare an internet sell to a face to face? Its getting deep!

If I were the buyer I'd send the thing back to Mark and tell Mark to keep it and do what he thinks is right. I'd wash my hands of the mess. If Mark refunds the money, good. If Mark does nothing, I accept it.

It really isn't that complicated,

A person was seeking a LIKE NEW IN BOX firearm, my guess this was supposed to be a Christmas present(wag),

A used gun,(the cousins gun) missing 50% of the components arrives,

Potential buyer drives to FFL location, opens box, and realizes this deal is clearly not what he was seeking,

closes box, tells FFL to return box, and drives home.

LNIB doesn't mean feel free to send the remaining piecemeal items as you find/purchase them.

The entire stance that the Buyer lied, about the package already being returned, simply doesn't fly, The last thing the buyer told the FFL to do was return the package, and then he drove away. Over.

I don't have enough posts to have an opinion.

I will have to say I had two dealings on a Remington 660 with Safariman. My first and last. I won't elaborate but It was not the deal I expected. Gun was at best 75% and described as like new.

you don't have enuff posts to have an opinion on that, either

Myself, I bracket....

under 200, over 7000, I don't trust ya,,,,

Somebody get bricktop

A used gun,(the cousins gun) missing 50% of the components arrives,


So he claims. Where is the photo from the pm's and reciept photos? I can say I am the king of Spain but that doen't make it true though does it?

bottom line is this.

SELLER - As a seller you should be sure the buyer is completely satisfied before you spend thier money no matter how hard up for cash you are and if they are not satisfied you should make every effort to make it right.

BUYER - I have never seen a buyer that claims to have been screwed over this bad be so reluctant to post pictures of what he recieved. You should be willing to show proof of your claims.

same reason that Jerry Springer Show is such a big hit.

this sucks

Not sure thats true I know a lot of wise people who have never posted on the fire

Hank

It doesn't matter how many posts I have. I have bought and sold several things on here. I have gotten along with most of the folks I have met. I had a deal with a Marlin 22 mag I sold and the buyer had a problem which I gave a full refund. Honesty is the best policy. I have had dealings with folks with under ten posts and gotten treated fairly. I have dealt with folks with over ten thousand posts and gotten a bad deal. Go figure. As long as the Campfire doesn't throw me off I have just as much right to my opinion as the next member. NUF SAID

Again it really isn't that complicated,

As far as the Buyer posting pics, I'm thinking He feels he's wasted enough time on this subject, (what, a month now?) You want pics, e-mail the seller after DSC.

I think the burden of proof in this case falls on the Seller, Me, There wouldn't be a moments hesitation, if I actually had pics of a "LNIB" item, that I actually owned.

to me, it's even simpler than that.

buyer not happy? make it right.

I will deal with low post count guys (within reason), but not somebody that has unresolved disputed transactions.

If the seller sent the buyer pics why is it so difficult for the seller to post the same pics he sent the buyer here now? Me thinks that would be the easiest way to resolve condition issue. This is another classic reason NOT to buy from anyone that is too lazy to post pics of what they are selling, there is simply NO excuse for it.

I recently sold a used stock and take-off barrel to a member here, who placed a WTB ad.

I described the items to the best of my ability, so there would be no surprises. After I had received his check, and then shipped the items, I sent him a pm.

It stated, "If for WHATEVER reason you are not happy with the stock, send it back and I'll refund your money."


Watch out for the canopy Goose.

I lurk here almost daily. I was only going to read the first couple of pages, but like a good book, I just couldn't put it down.
That said, I'm tempted to buy it just so I can take pics and post them myself

Every deal that I've done here has been a good experience for both the buyer and the seller. Folks have gone out of their way to make sure everything was satisfactory and that's a big part of what makes this place special.

Members can do what they want, but I'm not gonna deal with anybody here who takes a hard azzed "this is a business transaction" attitude on the Free Classifieds. That includes some of the members who are selling here as part of their business and paying Mr. Bin for the privilege to do so. I can go to a retail store for that kind of transaction, but at least there I can see and touch what I'm buying before I pay for it.

A "slot limit" so to speak.

Safariman,you stated in your first post that the OP did'nt want or mention the bipod that was in the picture,and later that you will have to look for one?Why not find the one in the picture?

I have found out that when its time for him to give money back or fix something he is a little on the short side due to financial troubles or something. But when ever there is a deal on here he is the first to make cash offers and purchase the item. Funny how we find funds in time of need!!!

Or the fact he forgot to include the magazine and then later had to go buy a new one to ship........well which is it?
Did he even have one to begin with and was it listed in his description?
Not trying to pile on but this all sound very fishy and I sometimes do transactions on here and need to know for future references...........

Integrity never goes out of style, the campfire is a great place to visit and do business with other likeminded people which I have done without a problem. I hate it when members become disgruntled because of one of us making bad judgement calls. Hopefully this exchange between these 2 members will educate others that some things are just not acceptable on the Campfire so lets make 2014 a great year on the fire.

Umfortunately, you are spot on and my sentiments.

Peddled the parts I'd guess. $$$$$$$

+1

I bought a Sako from a member here that did not have 10 post. Everything went fine.

I have been burnt twice by members here with higher post count and had been around awhile. Both times it was almost a $1000 per transaction. One of these members no longers post here and the other hasn't posted since he burnt me.

Post count alone tells you nothing.

Dink

But the content of the posts often reveal the posters character.
100% classified ads tell damn little.

As was said before Integrity is the one thing you can not buy.

Even if i get burnt on a deal my word will still be good.

I agree with dink. I would be classified as a classified cowboy because of my low post count but I spend a lot of time in other forums. I rarely contribute as the people there know a lot more than I and it is hard to listen when u are running your mouth. Additionally I get so mad when I read those with high post counts bashing others. Safariman was doing just this over Xmas.

Eric

I couldn't agree more! I don't have a lot of spare time to peruse all the sites I am a member of and I cannot offer much to most here that have more knowledge than myself. I do however cruise the classifieds when I am needing or wanting something, for that I am guilty. I have asked once before about what the "magic" number of posts are required to be considered a solid member but I think this thread has pretty much answerd my question.

It sucks slamming a guy around here, but it's safe to say that many of us have bit our tongues over the years about this situation.
If a guy really has financial or medical issues the guys on this forum are very generous. I've never seen such an outpouring of concern, kindness and generosity as the 'fire offers.

But it works both ways. When guys continually milk the system and get into 'victim mode' it's over. This place will wear a guy out just as fast over that behavior, and it should.
It's ironic this all came out due the seller's actions. Real Christian behavior would have said, 'all right, send me the things back, let's put this behind us." A man's character should go well beyond monetary value.
Very unfortunate.

You just cannot always elaborate about poor financial situations while concurrently discussing rebarreling or rechambering a rifle. It does not add up unfortunately.

Yes Sir you did make it right by giving me a refund and we have had a transaction since then as well.

That cracked me up

I have lots of good transactions here. The only one that didn't go was with the person that this thread is against. He has been on my ignore list for some time

In the end, a MAN would offer a 100% refund without ever being asked.

Thank God I ain't a Christian.

Or new (used) truck to haul his 'wheeler, dogs, decoys, guys etc.

Well his Harley certainly can't pull all that stuff.

My thoughts exactly! But I probably don't have enough posts to have an opinion either.....

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth..._Fishcat_13_2_person_pontoon#Post8400447

Not trying to kick a down dog but there is some serious things that just ain't consistent and have not been for a while. Lots of us here have much the same issues but dont advertise.

Because more than likely the pictures he sent were poached off the 'net and were not even of the actual gun being sold.

That is funny you say that. When I saw the ad with the pistols for sale and that they had already been sold, I said to myself , self , I bet we see those for sale down the road due to a need of some sort. ( at a nice increase in price of course).

Really I was just jealous cause I have to work and miss out on good deals like that

Sounds like a lot of money shuffling going on. Robbing Peter to pay Paul so to speak.

I'll be happy to tell you of all my ailments and issues.

Go

I'm hung over!

Don, you just tell me about the ailments you been giving to coyotes.

Where are the pictures?




GOOD pictures
Clear terms
Shipping insurance

Three things that protect both the buyer and seller.

Now you want good pictures of my ailments?

wow. kinda reminds me when wyatt earp said "you called down the thunder, well you got it"






sig worthy


respectfully, i'm not sure you have a high enough post count to be using facts and logic


high post count campers own the fire. it's in the board rules.

I lost all respect for Safariman when he started all that bullchit with the knife guys on this forum some time back

.... from this day forward, anyone who wants to take a chance dealing with this type of person has STUPID written on their forehead

Wow, this thing took off since I peeked at it yesterday. I agree with a lot of the previous posts - you play the living hand to mouth card while repeatedly purchasing toys and talking about campers/trucks/etc and people start to say "Hmmmm. Poor priorities or great acting?".

There goes the gravy train with biscuit wheels....

I'm just hung.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth..._WTB_Ruger_22_Charger_Pistol#Post8311855

Like a field mouse.

I've had one deal with safariman. He beat me up on price and wanted me to send it to his C&R FFL. Can't do that...he said he wanted to avoid transfer charges. I don't think I will deal with him again. Kind of a 'his is gold, your's is coal' type.

I recently had some bullets stolen from me via USPS. buyer got an empty box. I had a thy ex bag and 2 ziplock bags in side the box, and completely taped the box to avoid rupture. But...it couldn't be safe from a guys knife. The box was clearly cut open. I refunded the $120 dollars and lost the bullets. But that's what integrity is...doing the right thing even when it's tough to do.



This can easily be cleared up with the original pictures being posted. But since he has danced that request for 300 post...I doubt they are of what he states. It stinks...all the way around.

lol, what he meant was that his cousins-wifes-friends-brothers-uncle has one.

Should we start a pool to buy it from Ed just so we can take pictures?

The King Kong of field mice, though. Maybe

No need to thank Him for that. I'm believing He wishes you were. Not being a Christian is easy and there are no snipers taking pot shots behind the rocks.

Christians give 100 refunds, too, without being asked. The only time I've ever had anyone complain about something I sold was a Tasco 6x24x40 I sold for $40.00. He got his 40 bucks back plus what it cost to ship the scope back to me. It had a couple ring marks, not through the paint, and didn't pass his grid test. Grid test on a $40.00 Tasco! No kidding. I used it on many a magnum rifle to work up loads but didn't need it any more. It's a solid scope for a Tasco. Still have it. Not going through that nonsense again.

Recently, I have been worked over on a $1700-$1800 deal for a gun that was supposed to shoot very good, but a 9 shot group printed a little over 8" at 100 yards off the bench on the second scope. It shot like crap with the first one too. POI wandered all over the place in the initial sight-in. I was refused a refund from the thief and took crap from his cronies in an interesting display, but what goes around comes around and one day it will. I don't let nearly 2K slide. Better Christians might. Gotta use Grace on occasion. Figure that's what it's there for. (j/k-kinda)

I also bought an expensive and exclusive rifle on here for which no qualifier as to accuracy was given. I found out why.I figure that one was on me for not asking. One day I'll put a new barrel on both of them. Maybe when the kids get out of college.

Reading this, the way it plays out, the lame excuses and double-talk, and accusations makes me sick. I knew it was coming for a while and was really surprised by all the enablers that kept the ruses going, but oh, well.

Mark, you need to give this man his money back plus pay him to ship your stuff back. That's the only right thing to do and the only way for you to get out of this with any semblance of integrity. If that's not important to you, carry on, but you will lose far more than you will gain. Truth be known, you've already lost far more than you know, but there's no better time that the present to start turning that around. Best wishes.

In.

Then let's give it to him.

.... with a bipod and mag

Add a bunch of members to your list. Many requested to stop using CAPS for classifieds. It's about having respect to other 24hr listings and other knife dealers like Vince.

Actaully, I think the best route for me will be to buy that baby and charge 10 bucks for the photos

Good post.


I'm hoping Ed got a free CD, at least.
That Allison guy did.

I'm curious enough for $10 worth.......




Hard copy, you bastard, no e-mail pics........


I may have been born at night, but...........

bwahaha

I don't have a beef with other members ... this is my happy place.

Also, you edited my quote. I said "guys" not "guy". You are singling out an individual by doing that.

hahahaha, ill have my wife model it for another 5

I did that with a Glock once, sold rather quickly if I can brag a bit

For a ten spot, Brett Farve will send you pics.

How do you not notice that big ass square hole where the magazine SHOULD go? You wrapped it for shipping and you "thought" you included the magazine? That's like saying you thought you included the stock.

House of cards just came down on Safariman. Dig deep, return his money including shipping and apologize to the buyer.

He did say buyer asked for gun ONLY.

This is correct.
Did Ed ever really ask for a functioning Charger?
Uh-oh.

After all this crap, i'm still trying to wrap my head around how it was his cousins gun, but he already spent the money on new tires? It wadm't his money to begin with

Well here are the pics that I received from Safariman via text message, and were the photos that I based my decision on. I don't know how to copy the exact text message, but this is as much as I could accurately transfer.





Safariman quote "There she is just like new"


Now Safariman has denied knowing about a bipod, he has denied that he didn't represent the Charger as new or like new. Now who is the scammer and liar.

Ya I did, I asked for a LNIB as in like new in the box.

I have asked for a full refund at least six times.

We need a sarcasm thingy, Ed.

Ha! Good catch. Very interesting.

As I recall, Mark said he had a gun his cousin wanted and traded that gun for the Charger and sold the charger to Ed.

Which is miles different from posting "I HAVE ONE" in Ed's WTB thread. I doubt at any point during this deal did Mark tell Ed the gun wasnt in his possession or wasnt his at the time he posted that he had one.

That's a great idea. I will give you Safarimans address and you all can send him $1 and when he gets to $295 he can refund me the purchase price.

About bit mine all-the-way-through.

Do you have any pics of what actually shipped?

Yeah, but that would be helping mark out on something HE needs to remedy.....

I posted the pics of what Safariman sent me above.

Until a refund is made; the other sites he sells on should be informed. It's the Christian thing to do.

When I got my like new 660 Remington I had to put a stock on it to make it right. Glad I had one. I ask if the original stock had been cut and he said no. When it arrived it had a rubber recoil pad installed and the stock was very beat up. I complained and was offered several other guns which I didn't want and were worth much less. Finally after all was done I got a few dollars (CASH) in the mail. I figured I would let it drop until I saw this post.

Or he could just sell one of these firearms to get Ed his money back....or buy more tires.

I can send a couple dollars to help out. I will say its in the mail. YEA RIGHT

I would never send $1 to a con artist

Can we see similar photos of the gun in its current state?

+1

I gotta say I was wrong about this one. Really thought the OP was going to get proved in the wrong, sure doesn't look that way now. Hate to say it but Mark it looks like you really screwed up on this one man. Find a way to get they guy a refund.

Dont think thats him, location is Indiana

Yep,
dont get safariman and safarihunter mixed up, two different people

I can clearly see some marks on the barrel. Another set of current pictures is warranted.

The Loan Dept at the bank opens at 9:00 AM....

So much for the post count theory.

Yeah, I was just thinking the same when I found this post. I don't change my belief in a man easily, but the evidence here is damning.
I'm holding out some faint hope that this is a result of the medical issues causing some bad judgement.

Holy balls. This turned into a chit show! Never saw that coming on the fire!

Ive hung out with Mark a few times. Always been a stand up guy. Hell, he's invited me into his home and hunting camp. He's been generous.

That said Mark, I can't get behind this deal or the "sales final" thing. Just not the way I would do business.

I sincerely hope it works out for both you and MisourriEd.

Ditto.

Jim

We're all stars now, in the schitt show

Damn, Marilyn Manson just made it to the campfire.

Didn't know who she/ he was so I googled and wished I didn't....

Dishonesty, at Rick's? I am shocked, I tell you, shocked!

How many posts before I can have an opinion?

More than me, I can't yet. . . . .lol

Rumor has it he might have a 357 or two that he could probably let someone else buy instead. I believe there were guys standing in line for that Smith, I think that would probably about take care of what Ed is out.

Yeah the poor guy is so hard up for money that he's buying 357 Mag revolvers 2 at the time.

Mike

oh the horror.

Ive dealt with safariman and never had anything but good dealings with him .i hope all turns out well for seller and buyer

Should not be that hard to find the loot...

As of 12/11, he had betwixt 8 and 9 k to spend on a truck..

12/20 ordered up a new wildcat...

This post is killing me. It's like an addiction as I find myself checking the classifieds frequently. This is hazardous to wallet as I usually just look once a day (glad I didn't see the knives on the estate sale till SPF )

Yep, some things you cannot un-see....

In all fairness, IIRC that was the 8-9K he would make from selling his truck to buy another one.

Would love to see pics of what showed up at Ed's FFL.

The for sale pics clearly look LNIB to me, along with a bipod and scope. The buyer requesting "just the gun" means w/o the pictured scope. Thats trading 101!

The hilarious part is SM not having the pictured bipod. Where did it go once he took it off! I guess it does have two legs...

This just goes to show that a person should now cross all their T's and dot all their I's when buying firearms in the classifieds.

Make dang sure it includes the trigger, bolt, stock, recoil pad, action, or even the barrel. Hel1 you prolly outta ask if the mag comes with it from now on!

.... Oh and one other thing; LNIB now means ~ Leaving Now In Badshape

OK, that was funny!

I just went back to that post and read that...I stand corrected on that point. Still, doing what's right still needs getting done.

That's ok, it's hard to keep all his schemes straight.

Cant believe no one asked "What would Phil Robertson do?"
I think we know

Hank

Here it is WWPRD

Being fairly adept at reading sign, and the distinct odor of rodentia permeating the electronic air, I think one of the parties involved makes a pretty decent skimming from buying/trading here and running a table at gun shows, and likely never takes it in the shorts when trading, buying or selling.

Truly feel sorry for anyone dumb or trusting enough to be snowed into thinking otherwise.

Yep, no money one day and travelling over 200 miles to Missoula Mt. the next for the gun show with fuel at 3.50/4.00 a gallon respectively. Not to mention the other expenditures that would be incurred.

I see a lot of flipping going on there in the Classifieds. I normally won't pursue one of those guns as I know absolutely nothing about it but worst part being, seller knows nothing about it either..

If I buy a gun, I like to know it's history... kinda like "I've owned it several years just no longer need it".. not "I picked it up at the gunshow last week"..

In my location a gun that makes the gunshow table is a gun that would not move otherwise. A clunker!

"All he asked for was the pistol".....Retarded

"I have one! but now it was my cousin's gun".......Laughable

"Going to have to try and locate a bipod", even though the gun pictured showed a bipod.....Classic

All this kinda has the same flair of the story about one dying and then found that he really is still alive and lurking.........

It could happen.








Miracles.

You must not be a gun trader. Sometimes "I have to have something" and by the time the background check is done I am wishing I bought something else. Did I mention it takes bout five minutes to do the background check.
I have been trying to be better but.....I have bought three rifles this week.....hehehe. I am taking small steps to recovery from gun trader disease.

Dink

I think we all know Mark's in a tough spot. He's made that clear, perhaps dwelling on it out of desperation at his own condition, rather than to elicit sympathy, but I wouldn't know.
I am very sympathetic to him for his deteriorated condition. I wish him the best. He and Sheri are decent folks to be sure.
I've had transactions with Mark that were fine, but money is clearly a big issue in Marks life.
I know he buys and sells guns to make a profit, going to GREAT lengths to procure and secure deals he can turn a buck on.
I sympathize with being in a tight spot. We've all been there.

I am not seeing enough evidence of a bad deal in this transaction to make a judgement, just lots of anecdotal evidence. Unfortunately, a man builds his nest and the fire is speaking.

Mark, if you're reading brother, might want to do some careful evaluation and see if a different approach might be in order. Certainly wish you and your bride the best.

P.S. Might be time to send the Harley's down the road...

I like the ones who buy a rifle and then decide to "go into another direction"before they fire a round. While I imagine it does happen, it don't happen as much as you see in the classifieds. FLIP Same goes with the handguns. "Just got this _____ this week, only 10 rds down the tube ....... FLIP

OR the guy who trades for a rifle or hand gun yet doesn't know the value of that. uh huh....sure

You watch who buys what, you can tell who the flippers are

dangit weims, I won't be able to rid my mind of this stoopid ditty all night......

X1000!

Story after sob story after BS story....sheesh!

Sign is easy to read.

Nothing wrong with making money in this obama economy; but misrepresentation and refusal to refund monies paid, is the equivalent of theft.

Man. I get off the grid for 2 days taking the family to the cabin and find this thread when I get back. I got to page 12 and gave up....what a mess.

I tried to stop at page 9. Didnt work.

Oh yea, he's got 24 pages to go. They are the good ones.

Im a proud flipper. Not everyone can just buy what they want. I like buying a 300.00 handgun and flipping my way into a 1k rifle. Even better, i get to shoot a bunch of different guns along the way.

Flippin' is different than [bleep]'.

Yea, you'd think Ric would want to ban these scammers. They certainly do nothing for the integrity of the Fire.

You would give up the opportunity to to attach this thread to all his upcoming listings?

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...8401761/1/Even_Fire_Members_Are_Dishones


Hell; I think it should be a sticky.

Pretty sure SM is done here, just think 22,949 wasted post. . . . .lmao

Ed, Clear something up for us would you? The pics that were sent to you and then you re-posted them here,

Is that the same gun or not?

Are you able to post pics of the current gun which is in your possession? Only takes a minute....

The coup de grace?

Yes I made a mistake in believing him on this deal. I trusted the wrong person and got bit in the azz. He has made no effort to make any thing right. Just hope that this group of good fire folks will see this and learn from my misfortune. Yes scammers, liars and thieves abound everywhere.

Oh hell...maybe I'll read the final 24 pages tomorrow. I'm sure this thread will still be on page 1.

Seen the pics used to sell the gun. Now I want to see the pics of the actual condition of the gun. Until I see the scratches I will think that the buyer will be made whole by receiving a magazine. If the sale was actually for the "gun only" which I have not seen denied I can see the no bipod thing.
I got in a deal on another forum with a jerk who was never going to be satisfied and was just trying to beat me down on price after the fact. Not saying that happened here but in my instance I demanded a return and agreed to pay all shipping and fees. Seems like the guy was a little happier with the item at that point because he refused to return the gun for a full refund. I just do not see enough proof either way for me to ever deal with either of these guys.

The gun I received is not the same gun that Safariman sent pics to me via text. I took possession of the POS gun yesterday morning and immediately put it in secure storage without taking pics. I'm leaving tomorrow on a two week trip to hunt deer in Alabama and then to Dallas for the Safari club convention and return to Missouri. I can take pics of the gun after 14 Jan. Thanks for asking.

See; it's not all that complicated is it?

I agreed to purchase a LNIB firearm. All Ruger chargers came with bipods, magazines and Ruger Logo case as OEM provided. I expected a LNIB to be exactly that, not missing equipment and accessories. 10-22 actions are non functional without a magazine and bipod. I now have a nonfunctional firearm, would you want this?

Frankly the title of this thread pisses me off. People are people. One of the things I've seen in life is it's easier for people to rip you off if you are willing to jump on something that sounds to good, because your greedy. Whether or not that applies to you or not, it's the old if the shoe fits deal. I've always thought if it sounds too good to be true it probably is.

Don't forget the pre 64 and model 21 or was it a model 12 duck gun he bought with his life savings. I have a feeling ol boy is alot better off than he lets on. Most guys that were screwed over just let it go and dont say anything. So SM just keeps going when called out he goes into the same routine thats usually gets him out of a jam. Who remembers the model 71 fiasco remember his cars were broke down and needed money to fix them...

What is "to good to be true" about a 300 dollar 10/22 with a hacked off stock?

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if that picture was poached off the 'net, which would fully explain the lack of bipod and mag. Wonder if anyone could enhance that pic enough to compare serial numbers.

Pistol went from the FFL directly into storage? You didn't have your phone on you to document the damage?

How is a 10/22 not functional without a bi-pod? Did you not inquire in the agreement that the case and bipod were included?

Both ends of this deal stink, all over!

NIB definition is on the NRA conditions standards webpage
http://www.armchairgunshow.com/Condition-NRA-Guns.htm
Which talks about all the piece parts being there

But it seems that getting those parts isn't sufficient... as Ed stated the gun has use marks.

Seems simple enough to reverse the trade.

Which part?

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth..._WTB_Ruger_22_Charger_Pistol#Post8311855

THAT is pure and utter horsepoop! The gun you got pictures of is EXACTLY the gun I sent you! Another whopper. Wow.....

And you asked for a price on "just the gun" so I offered the BARE gun to you for $295 and you accepted. You have a PM from me asking where to send the bi pod I have coming as well as the magazine. Today is the FIRST I heard that you thought the gun was scratched, or that you thought it should have a Bi Pod. Communicating that to me when the gun came in 8 days ago would have prevented this whole mess. I would have done what I am doing now. Getting you a Bi Pod and a magazine. No case or pouch was ever shown or discussed.

NAWWWWW, you phuggin' dipschitt... his wife's phuggin tires wore out in TWO weeks...

12/4/13-



12/28/13-

Mark, Can you take pics of that same countertop?

Here is the latest, a THREAT of a certified letter..... when I simply asked where to send his bi pod (on its way)and magazine (in hand) that I wish to provide to make the deal a right one.


FROM ME:

ED,
I have ordered a Ruger Charger Bi Pod, still have the magazine that I purchased, and will send them together when the BiPod arrives in a few days. I really, truly did not know that a bi pod was standard equipment on a Ruger Charger or I would have insisted on that being part of the deal when I first obtained it. There has never been any intent to harm or defraud you in any way.

To what address would you like them sent?

MARK

PS still not sure why you did not make me aware of those issues or allow me to rectify them before trying to renig on the deal. As far as I knew before today, you only were concerned about the FFL, and then the magazine. I only learned today about your other concern's. Probably would have had about the same result as now, with far less angst. Awaiting an address to send the needed parts to.
_________________________
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.

Show me good wood wrapped around a CRF action, chambered in a cartridge that is among the fastest of its caliber, or don't show me at all 'cause you did it all wrong.

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#3186269 - 9 minutes 3 seconds ago Re: Where should I send your stuff?
MissouriEd Online content
Campfire Guide

Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 3109
Loc: Between somewhere and nowhere


You can send me a check for $295. Or you will get a certified letter.

_________________________
Formerly AlabamaEd. I have moved from Alabama to Missouri.


re cash flow, did have a couple weeks ago and do have now are two different things.

That's his cousin's countertop.....

All this, just to pocket 295 bucks <shakes head>

A man of principle I tell ya

I'm often accidentally called Mark, or Marc, but my name is neither, and my counters don't look like that.


BWAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAA.......

Know you weren't talking to me, but couldn't resist.

I sure wouldn't send a refund until after his trips around. No trust on either side of this circus.

Not tonight, but likely can soon. Digital camera broke, which is why I sent him I-phone pics. I can send those same I phone pics or a new set of pictures of just that countertop visa I-phone to someone if they know how to post them up.

I absolutely CAN prove the pictures as valid, and I was NOT told by Ed that he was concerned with a Bi Pod or a case thing OR that the pistol was scratched until TODAY in THIS THREAD. If I had been aware of such things when the gun came in EIGHT DAYS AGO, or any time since then, I would have moved swiftly to rectify the situation. All I knew about until today was some info missing on the FFL, which I imeediately rectified, and the missing magazine, which I also rectified as quickly as I could. Today, I learned that these are supposed to come with a bi pod, and so I have one coming. Just need to know where to send it and all should be well.

What happened to the bi-pod in the picture you sent?

In one of my messages to him I asked for his address so that I could send his stuff or, if we decided, a refund, and he declined to give me an address.

I am still waiting for one. Something fishy about that, for sure.

What the hell happened to the Bipod in the pic?

Mark,

PM me for my ##. Take pictures via iPhone, with a printout or laptop of this thread. I'll post them up for you.

I allowed the person I got the Charger from to keep it, as I was not aware that these were to come with one until today. Never had one, don't like 'em, don't want this one back. This was a specialty type of gun that Ed requested help in finding and getting, and I tried to help and even gave him, as he asked for, a low price for "just the gun" Even at that, I am sending him a Ruger Bi Pod and Magazine, as soon as I know to where and how.

Phugg that. Take a pic with your face and the date in it. Flip us off while you're at it.

Really? So you didn't respond to posts YESTERDAY, in this very thread, about Chargers coming from the factory with a bipod?! And the bipod is only part of the issue to begin with! Gawd you're dense!

I'd be jumping head over heels to post some pics here, Buyer or seller. Enough already.

This thread just keeps getting better and better...
After reading through this whole thing, I think there is plenty of blame to go around - on both sides of the transaction. It is also starting to sound more and more like someone paid $295 for a used Charger and found out they could have bought a brand spanking new one from numerous dealers for $289.

If i thought i took it in the ass on something I purchased from you, would i get a refund or a picture?

So the "person" you got the Charger from still has the bipod? I thought the Charger was your cousin's?

Shouldn't be too tough to get the bipod back from a relative, I'm sure you have lots of trade material?

Mine are in I phone, and I do not know how to post them here but a kind person has offered to post them for me, including the countertop without the gun, fresh photo on that one for all to see.

I would have posted the gun photo long ago if I knew how to do so from said I phone. Our Digital cameras are not working, and replaceing them has not been a priority this month.

I got a few used tires I'd like to trade for a 357 Smith.

Maybe the tire dealer takes returns or other guns in trade?

I'm still not buying the 'straight to secured storage' thing. Mark had sent him pictures to his phone. Since Mark's camera is reportedly broken, one could suspect he sent iPhone to iPhone (judging by previous post, indicating he only has an iPhone for picture taking). Thus, the OP could/should have taken pictures at the FFL after noticing the damage...

I have already stated that I have a Ruger Charger Bi Pod coming, the one in the photos was not a Ruger item but off of another gun. The one Ed will get, if he gives me an address to send to, will be a genuine Ruger Charger BiPod.

just an fyi......photobucket has an iphone app......I use it all the time .
just saying.

At this point, I'd get a knock-off

Actually, I traded one 357 for the work to get Sherri's heater fixed, but we DO still need a set of studded tires and yes I would trade a 357 for some if you have them. I will forgo the green guy with only one finger on each hand. <G>

[Steelhead voice] The wheels on the bus go 'round and 'round, 'round and 'round [Steelhead voice]

I'll stud those used tires, but it's an as-is transaction. No returns. You ship first.

Let me know what size you need.

10.5x31x15

Remember, I asked for the Smith. And you've got more posts, but I've been here longer.

Umm is this where I find out about the McMillan Christmas sale?

When is that, anyway?

Ed's latest attempt to settle and put this behind us. Remember when he said he was walking away? Had his gun and was done with all of this?

nread By: none
#3186305 - 4 minutes 38 seconds ago Re: Where should I send your stuff?
MissouriEd Online content
Campfire Guide

Registered: 07/14/04
Posts: 3109
Loc: Between somewhere and nowhere
I didn't want any stuff. I asked for a refund from the very beginning. I have your text with the pics and your LNIB comments. I'm sure a judge will be very interested. I have no intention of intimidating you. You need to understand that once the letter gets sent,recovery costs will escalate sharply. I am retired and a disabled veteran and have nothing better to do than to pursue this. I intend to be made whole no matter what the cost.

Send a certified check for $295 and I will return the nonfunctional firearm at my cost.

At least now he is willing to spend the money for the shipping. Before, he wanted me to pay that as well.

I don't think he has ever been serious about dealing fairly or giving me an opportunity to provide what he wanted or needed and that was not disccussed until this thread.

I find it interesting you mentioned "person" instead of "cousin" when referring to the previous owner.

DUMBPHUCK, do you remember having him on ignore until yesterday?! How would've you expected him to contact you, smoke signals?!

I just bought a $1200 gun "In very good condition" that showed up with a 6" long repaired split all the way through the buttstock. Acraglass, pinned, sanded, refinished.

"In very good condition" indeed. Ignored my first two emails then called me a few days later.
Seller thinks I'm being unreasonable even mentioning it. Said he'd think it over and call me within 24 hours to let me know what he decided. I wanted to send it back on the grounds not as represented.

Haven't heard a word in four days. I'd be pretty happy to take the screwin' Mark's giving ol' Ed right now instead of this one.

Can you talk to Rick about making this thread a sticky?

Tell me about your tires! I would love to have them, if I can do some trading. I do far more swapping and trading than any thing else. Trade and barter are a huge part of how I am surviving these days. So, do tell me more about some studded tires if you have them in the size we need.

So does this mean the gun is no longer for sale?

TIRES MAN, I've got TIRES! Studs and ALL!

Ed was NOT on ignore when the gun arrived, or for the eight days thereafter, I have stated this before, more than once. Whose the dummy here, now!?

Hmmmm, what to do, what to do??????????

Does the heater guy know which one he traded for yet?

It was a well beat up Smith and Wesson model 65. I have not yet seen the guns that are coming, and they wont be en route until I can pay for them so any tire trading should wait until I have guns in hand.

Does it have to be a Smith and Wesson 65?

Warning, I will send you accruate photos and a good description, but once the deal is done, it is done <G>

That's what I'm starting to think as well.

Taken from MY Iphone and posted tonight... with no magic required, other than the use of emailing the pic to myself and loading to photobucket.



Hopefully we can work a trade, as I really need a 357 smith for a woods gun.

You'd have to pay for dismount and ship of course. I have no cash.

My daughter broke both her legs Christmas Day and I'm tapped.

No schitt? REALLY?

MattMan if safariman passes on them and only if he passes let me know I have a Colt Python in 357 I would be willing to trade.

So that is all they go for? That probably is the root cause of all of this, buyers remorse. Why else would he not TELL me what was wrong with the gun, and try to work with me on a remedy but instead put his complaints here without giving me a moment to resolve any of them? Plus lie about the gun having been sent to me already when it had not, and now lying about the condition of the gun, and now even threatening me with a lawsuit if I do not refund...... hmmmmmm.....

no way in hell that Mark screwed a guy on purpose....i spent 2 weeks with the guy and his wife, half of that in the confines of a vehicle traveling most the way across the country and back.....Mark couldnt screw a person over on a dare....not the kinda guy he is.....this much beotching over a $10 magazine, a [bleep] bipod and a bit of duct tape on a package? half the packages i get from members here have duct tape on them....

send me the [bleep] gun and ill send you $300.........

Wanna buy some tires?

Like I said, my daughter broke her legs and I'm tapped.

Your daughter or your cousin?....

keep taking shots at a guy cause he is having some financial issues due to health....not like he has made them a secret on this forum....

That's classic signature line material right there.

Daughter. And I'm no liar... though "Tapped" may be subject to interpretation.



Pic also taken with an Iphone, sent to mine...

Did you get to meet the cat that leaves diarrhea on the bed?

met the cats, met the dogs......Mark is a genuine guy and both he and his wife are having health issues and financial issues because of it....only reason he went to the hog hunt last year is i helped with the travel expenses....at that point his kidneys were so [bleep] if he lifted up his shirt you could see the outline of them on his back but go ahead and keep taking shots at a guy thats done all kinds of chit for members here includding sending cash to those in need before his health issues made it so he couldnt work and put him in a bind....

I've had guys I've known WAY longer than 2 weeks or 10 years surprise the schitt outta me... and I called them on it.

I see now why he needs the cash. If it were me, I'd let him keep it. Did you tell him about medical marijuana? Might be just the thing to get him traveling around the country again. Also, pot has a no return policy, and there is lots of profit to be made there as well.

That right there is TFF

Mark is wondering were to send the missing parts. But I'm sure the buyer had a return address on the envelope when he sent him the fund. He'd probably be better off sending a refund and ending this mess.

I think his daughter broke her cousin's legs. With a studded tire. On a countertop. And someone else's cousin paid her $289.



P

9 pages and there isn't any T&A on here yet? This has been a great read anyways. Entertaining to the hilt!

I hate point out the obvious here but every one that knows anything about tires knows that you don't list the width before the height. The CORRECT designation is 31-10.50x15 This is the way it is even written on the sidewall of your tire.

The more I read this thread, the more I think that I'd never want to sell to M. Ed

I wouldn't have a problem selling to him, but I ALWAYS offer a full refund if the buyer isn't happy for ANY reason. always have.

I wouldn't want to buy from you either. Thanks for the alert.

Your one of the good guys around although sometimes a little cranky on other issues. You and I could always work a deal. Thanks,

I really can't deny the cranky thing.

I just don't like people that threaten to sue right off the bat. I think law suits are a LAST resort.

This whole deal is Nyt Nwt!

I think a nation wide ban on the internet sale of Ruger handguns would have prevented all of this mess.

I'm hoping one of our congressmen unselfishly gets to work on this ban before more innocent Americans are forced to bear forever the scares these assault weapons cause untold numbers of us everyday.

You can thank me later,

Narcotics will tend to do that to a guy..

as well as impair judgement on how to handle complaints, and who, to send refunds to....

I wonder how many tires SM has������
he has been buying them forever.

Lets take a break for some entertainment




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFH1OUFpYbs&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DlFH1OUFpYbs&app=desktop

will people quit bumping this up? all the handmade knife ads keep sliding off the page.

That's a good thing! Besides don't they have their own place now to sell their wares?

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...08980/WTS_Savage_Four_Tenner#Post8408980


Mike

I can't stop laughing...



Travis