Originally Posted by RobJordan
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by TF49



Nope, you just introduced a red herring. You are choosing to ignore the point as it does not suit your purposes.

TF


I did no such thing. We've been on the theme of evidence vs. faith for sometime. All I did was demonstrate why testimony alone may not be a sufficient basis for belief.

As for your metaphysical ramblings about some internal faith, they are neither testable, verifiable, nor falsifiable, and that's why you've retreated to this last thin tattered bastion for your failing argument.


So falsifiability is your criterion? I think the beliefs of the most certified Wittensteinian Atheist/empiricis/positivist can be shown to be as utterly dependent upon an act of metaphysical faith as the beliefs of the most fundamental Biblical literalist. Atheists are, virtually by definition, materialists. But materialism denies the possibility of the metaphysical freedom of the mind, which is a necessary condition precedent for intelligible thought about anything. Atheism simply exempts itself from the strictures of its own theory in an act of metaphysical faith that rivals, for sheer credulity, anything seen in fundamentalist Christianity.
Myself, I like my Christianity leveaned with a good does of Aristotelian rationalism. I am out of town for a few days, but I'll take this up when I return on Sunday, if anyone is still interested by then. crazy


Rob, let's unpack your statement.

First, you claim Atheist are first and foremost materialist, and this materialism leads to non-belief. In reality, you have the chain of events all wrong. At our core, most are skeptics, and it is the lack of evidence for the supernatural, not some "faith" in the material, that leads to non-belief. A skeptic does not deny the possibility of anything out of hand without examining the evidence, or as is usually the case for metaphysical claims (metaphysics being that which is beyond science or observation, i.e. the supernatural) the total lack of evidence.

Next you asset, without evidence, that intelligent thought requires a supernatural freedom of the mind.

Why?

Neuroscience can measure the transmission of nerve impulses within the brain. They can detect the reaction to thought provoking stimuli and the accompanying changes in brain chemistry. Our ability to think is explained largely by chemistry. No supernatural (or as you would call it, metaphysical) explanation required.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell