Originally Posted by pabucktail
Originally Posted by 257Bob
"Those poor DNR people were idiots" because the carried shotguns? Let's not get ahead of ourselves! Shotguns are cheap (tax payer $s here) and are much easier to shoot with accuracy than a heavy bolt action in 375 or 458. The BA requires much more skill and cool nerve to use as a defensive rifle and most DNR folks are not trained for such skills, it's more of a matter of economy of scale, what works best for most people.

They're idiots for using birdshot as a defensive round. Actual experience has taught me that shotguns as a bear defense weapon are compromise weapons. I've killed brown bears trying to kill me. I've spoken to multiple people who've been mauled. I've dealt with a fatal mauling. I've cleaned up the messes of multiple brown bears wounded by slugs. Muscle memory and training are definite considerations, but the overriding consideration should be effectiveness. Shotguns have only one suitable loading that I know of: The 3" magnum Brenneke loading (and that's no .375 I can tell you!) That means there's lots of sub par loadings out there that the uninformed trust their lives to. Bolt actions are easy to use effectively, one need only take the time to learn.

In all of hunting and gun lore, nothing stirs dudes' the hearts like the idea of "bear stopping", "bear charge" or "bear gun". It's an idea that drips with excitement. The promise of danger and the manful concept of being greatly tested and prevailing are joined to the fact of actual threat for people out roaming where dangerous animals live. Consequently the topic gets alot of talk. But much like 14 year old boys discussing sex, most of it is fantasy and imagination promulgated by people with no actual experience, bloviating as though their opinions are the real deal. Having sorted some stuff out and gained some experience I can tell you a couple things. First, if you take the time to gain proficiency with an effective weapon, and do plenty of if-then thinking you'll likely prevail. This means you know how to use a proper firearm and can keep your head with things go sideways. Secondly, you don't get the fight you want, you get the fight you get, and sometimes stuff goes bad in spite of your best efforts, so carry the tools you need in that case. I hear lots of talk about guns, but little to none about tourniquets, blood stoppers, pressure bandages, and communication devices. We would all agree that being able defend yourself and others is a basic skill of manhood. In this case, lets make sure that we properly prepare and equip ourselves to do so.

Just to add to this: the majority of slugs on the market are soft lead and penetrate about the same or worse than a 9mm bonded JHP from a pistol. I've shot a lot of slugs into auto bodies/auto glass and shot a lot of deer with slugs and they are great for deer or two-legged critters but that's about it.