Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by MColeman
I have come to the same place as you, bcraig. In fact, I'm probably worse.

I'm not anti hunting and may have to kill in order to survive but that's the only reason I'll kill. I find that I have less and less patience with the "trophy hunter". My ego does not require or demand that I kill something in order to validate my existence.

I was building a rifle for a customer and he said, "If I see a monster deer beside the road I'll shoot him, cut his horns off and leave him there." I didn't even want to finish his rifle and will never do another for him under any circumstances.

A well known barrel maker was in the habit of setting up a Barr & Stroud rangefinder and shooting elk at over 1200 yards. I'll never buy one of his barrels. Anybody who uses a magnificent animal for target practice is beneath contempt. In the time of flight of the bullet at that distance the animal can take one step and turn a heart shot into a gut shot. If the animal is across a canyon you know the "hunter" won't make that trek just to verify a kill.


Let me offer a couple of comments. Just the other side of the coin.
Someone that kills to cut off antlers and go on, is a poacher, game thief, and should be convicted of such. NOT a hunter. Or a trophy hunter. Period.

To me anyway. Trophy hunting to me is hunting a specific animal, and that one may have big antlers or none at all. Instead of just shooting what comes along, I try, at times, to be specific for whatever reason. Not to orphan fawns even though they will survive. To put antlers on the wall. To help cleanse the gene pool. To not let an older animal suffer. To put sausage in the freezer etc... many reasons for being specific.

Re the long range, everything has time of flight. And that time of flight can be micro seconds or seconds. ANYTHING can move at any time and screw up a shot. IMHO more close range ones are screwed because more are attempted. And more long range ones work because of the ability of the folks, they KNOW about things like time of flight, and whats good or bad... Typically a prepared long range shooter will pass on many shots, but the ones they take are as close to 100% as you can get.

As to going to check, if the guy was setting up a Barr and Stoud, he'll go find the game after he shoots.

Now OTOH how many bubbas out there hunt with a boresighted (or not) never fired walmart gun and ammo and are so convinced that if they hit the deer its going to knock it over, that if they get a shot, even at 100 yards or less adn the deer runs off, they won't even go look. ...
My long was 802... up a mountain. Took us over an hour to get up to the location to find the caribou. Would not have done it any other way, IE not going to look.

I"m not arguing so much as giving another point of view.

But in the end I don't have to kill to feel successful now either. As a youth I did. But now I feel remiss if I dont', just because of the lack of fresh and dry sausage...

Jeff

Jeff,
I don't think we disagree at all. I just didn't make the effort to expand my comments to include your position.

To me a hunter is a man who knows a particular animal exists and where it exists, learns its habits and matches wits and skill with the animal. Most deer "hunters" are deer shooters who just happened to be at the right place at the right time. I also agree that the average bubba you meet in the woods can't hit a refrigerator 3 shots out of 5 and 100 yards.