Originally Posted by Coyote_Hunter
Originally Posted by bcraig


smokespoles,
The statement that lighter bullets makes recoil a non issue is true HOWEVER the OP was obviously talking about BIG game and the use of 110 and 125 grain bullets out of a 30-06 are not the best for hunting.
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Why not? For many species of big game 110-125 grain .308" bullets are way beyond "overkill". A 125g AccuBond (B.C. .366) stepping out at 3300fps makes for a pretty flat shooter with a calculated 2109fps and 1235fpe at 500 yards. Zeroed at 200 yards, the drop at 500 yards is only 34". While that wouldn't be my first choice for elk, it is very comparable in terms of retained velocity and energy to a 150g .30-30 with 2300fps MV at a mere 50 yards.

The classic .270 Winchester load is a 130g bullet at around 3060fps (Winchester Power -Point X2705). At 500 yards with a 200-yard zero, this equates to a 42" drop, 1904fps and 1046fpe. Recoil from 8.3 lb rifle will be in the 16-17 ft-lb range depending on the amount of powder burned. Compared to the 125g .30-06 load referenced above, at 500 yards the .270 Win 130g load adds 8" of drop and loses 171fps and 318fpe. (It does, however, deliver a bullet with higher, but at .242 not great, S.D. with about 1-2 ft-lb less recoil)

Using your logic, a .308" 220g bullet is "not the best for hunting" either. Very few people choose them because they are slow (around 2500fps), generate a lot of recoil (about 25 ft-lbs) and have a B.C. about that of a cement block. Well, just what are we hunting? If hunting big bears a 220g bullet might be just what I want. In any case I would much prefer it to anything a .270 Win could throw.

Time to throw out all the .30-06 rifles? I don't think so...

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My point was that although lighter bullets do indeed cut down on recoil the OP is talking about for big game and most arent going to be shooting a 30-06 with 110 or 125 grain bullets just to cut down on recoil.
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What "most" people do has never mattered much to me. After I zeroed a .30-06 for a good friend's son, he proceeded to take his first elk with it - using a Remington "Managed Recoil" load. The bullet weight was 125g with a claimed 2660fps MV.

The question posed by the OP, with regard to the .30-06, was this:

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Is there anything it does that a say 270 or similar, smaller caliber, lighter recoiling rifle will not do?


The answer is an obvious "yes" for a variety of reasons, some or all of which may or may not be important to a particular individual.

1. Versatility. The .30-06 can shoot bullets from 110g to 220g. With the right loads it is suitable for light varmint loads to loads suitable for the biggest animals in NA.

2. Ammo availability and variety. Midway usa.com lists 54 different .30-06 ammo types as "in stock" compared to 114 types total. For the .270 Win it is 21 types in stock out of 54 types total. For the .260 Remington the numbers are 5 of 15. For the .257 Roberts it is 0 of 13. And so on...

3. Ammo prices. .30-06 plinking ammo is often much cheaper than the least expensive ammo for other cartridges.

4. A .30-06 can often be downloaded to provide performance similar to the smaller cartridges, at very similar recoil levels.

5. Try as I might, I cannot upload my .257 Roberts to do what I can do with my .30-06 rifles. The same is true with many of the smaller cartridges.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against small cartridges per se, and in fact like them a lot. My .257 Roberts is my favorite rifle and it does ***most*** of what I need done. It has been an awesome dual-purpose deer/varmint rifle. A good argument can be made for the .308 Win and while I like mine, it will not handle heavies as well as my .30-06s. My 7mm RM was my first centerfire and while I have a lot of sentimental attachment to it, I've never asked it to do anything I couldn't do with a .30-06. My 6.5-06AI is a great rifle, as is my .280 Rem, which will be my elk rifle this year. That said, if I had to let all my rifles go but one, I'd be left with a .30-06.






I wouldn,t say that the 110-125 grain bullets out of the 30-06 are overkill but that is just an oppinion as is your oppinion that they are.
The comparison to the 30-30 ?

OP specificly said excluding the Big Bears so any comparison between the cartridges for bears is moot.

Never said that it was time to throw out all the 30-06 rifles

The fact that what most people do has never mattered to you and that you Zeroed a good friends Sons rifle for him and the the son was able to take his first elk with it using Managed recoil load has absolutely nothing to do with the op question.

You only listed part of the op question.
The Question from the Op was for big game other than Big Bears

The OP Did NOT ask about
Versatility
AMMO availability AMMO prices
Downloading a 30-06

But to address those issues
Versatitily-the 270 Winchester for example with the right loads can be used for Varmints to the Largest game in NA as well as the 30-06

Ammo Availability- In the first place Midway USA is not the only place to buy ammo,In the second place Just how Many loads does one need for big game?
A man can only shoot one load at a time out of his rifle !
And I suspect for the 270 Winchester as well as other cartridges that a person can find an a Factory load for the game animal they choose to hunt.
In addition Bullets for the 270 Winchester and again enough bullets for other calibers can be found that are suitable for the game being hunted.

Ammo Prices- is really a moot point considering the amount of factory Ammo shot in getting ready to and shooting big game animals.
That having been said I have many times seen 270 Winchester priced as cheap and sometimes cheaper than 30-06 ammo.

The 30-06 being the last rifle you would let go ?
I could definetly have a 30-06 for a one rifle big game rifle for everything but the Big bears and would not have an issue doing so.
I like the 30-06
HOWEVER
the 270 Winchester Will be fine for every thing else and Kick me less in the process.

And THAT is EXACTLY what the OP asked !

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