Thanks all for the various thoughts on the 35 Whelen and modern loads. One thing that's undoubtedly true about the Whelen is that it's one of the most versatile rounds in terms of available loads. Everything from cast pistol bullet plinking loads, to reduced recoil/power loads with light bullets, to "traditional" SAAMI loads on the lighter side, to the modern +P loads that sometimes exceed four thousand foot-pounds of energy are available.
This post is mainly about a few representative bullets I personally find interesting. There are several more that look good for +P applications but this is mainly to lay out a case for the Whelen as a general-purpose hunting round rather than dismissing it when ranges open up a bit. I did leave out the 250 gr. Partition because ballistically it's very similar to the Speer 250.
I should mention that I'd never run across the Hawk bullets before, and they look intriguing - if fairly expensive. The deal of the century has to be the Speer 250s at under $17 per 50. In the test data I found (the last table in the post) it's a standout, and is apparently well vetted in terms of retaining weight and expanding reliably. Speer even rates it as a "dangerous game" bullet.
All that said, the 265 grain Hawk spitzer looks like a potential star. I'd love to see some real world results from that one... One thing that could be better is that Hawk provides no BC values so I just made some up (heh)...if anyone knows of any based on real data, please speak up.
Despite the allure of the heavier bullets, once I have my shiny new Whelen in hand, I think I'll start with the 200 TTSX for +P development. It seems as though it'll do anything I need, perhaps unless I intentionally target dangerous game. Truthfully I'd feel adequately armed with that bullet even in brown bear territory (see test data below). Is anyone here running it at 2900 FPS or over out of a regular 35 Whelen?
The main point is really ballistic performance out to 400 yards. That's the important thing for the vast majority of hunters. If you regularly need to reach out beyond 400 yards for big game, the 35 Whelen isn't your best choice. The 500 and 600 yard data is included mainly for amusement purposes. All ballistic data was generated using the Ballistic app for iOS.
(Sidebar: BBCODE is supposed to support tables, but they don't seem to work here...could that please be fixed? I'm using the "code" tag instead to get a fixed size font, but it's a lot uglier and more painful to work with.)
35 Whelen Trajectories:
Weight Bullet Velocity (ft/s) 100 YD 200 YD 300 YD 400 YD 500 YD 600 YD Note
------ ------ --------------- ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ----
180 .308 180 NBT 2700 2.0 0.0 -8.3 -23.8 -47.7 -81.5 30-06 for comparison purposes
180 TTSX FB 3100 1.5 0.0 -7.2 -21.8 -45.9 -82.4 35 Whelen from here on…
200 TTSX 2900 1.7 0.0 -7.7 -22.7 -46.8 -82.0 Probably conservative on velocity, need load data
225 Accubond 2800 1.9 0.0 -8.0 -23.3 -47.4 -82.0 Nosler data, Varget
250 Speer HC 2707 2.1 0.0 -8.7 -25.4 -51.5 -89.3 Speer data
265 Hawk SPZ 2650 2.1 0.0 -8.8 -25.3 -51.1 -87.6 Guesstimated .475 G1 BC, notional velocity
275 Hawk RT 2600 2.3 0.0 -10.4 -30.7 -63.5 -112.1 Guesstimated .350 G1 BC, notional velocity
35 Whelen Energies:
Weight Bullet Energy (ft-lb) 100 YD 200 YD 300 YD 400 YD 500 YD 600 YD Note
------ ------ -------------- ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ----
180 .308 180 NBT 2926 2553 2218 1918 1650 1306 1206 30-06 for comparison purposes
180 TTSX FB 3869 3089 2443 1908 1469 1117 844 35 Whelen from here on…
200 TTSX 3757 3127 2585 2119 1722 1387 1110
225 Accubond 3940 3349 2833 2381 1987 1647 1358
250 Speer HC 4068 3451 2909 2436 2026 1674 1378
265 Hawk SPZ 3996 3584 3078 2630 2235 1889 1590 Guesstimated .475 G1 BC, notional velocity
275 Hawk RT 4154 3393 2745 2198 1745 1378 1091 Guesstimated .350 G1 BC, notional velocity
I found some .358 bullet test data at
https://www.marlinowners.com/forum/...-tests-focus-30-cal-190-hawk-35-rem.html, preserved here for posterity.
Test setup: One inch of "soaked magazines", 1/2" fiber board (to simulate "tough bone"), and then many inches of "soaked magazines". I added the columns for percent expansion and percent retained weight . Notes here are from the original post. Velocity in FPS, sizes in inches, weights in grains.
.358 bullet test data, mainly at 35 Remington velocities:
Weight Bullet Velocity Penetration Expanded Size Exp. % Ret. Wt Ret. Wt % Note
------ ------ -------- ----------- ------------- ------ ------ --------- ----
150 Rem 2380 10 0.56 156% 121 81% (35 Remington factory load, 24 inch barrel)
180 Speer FP 2262 15.25 0.49 137% 154 86% 35 Rem handload
180 Speer FP 2690 15 0.625 175% 119 66% 358 Win/35 Whelen
200 Rem RN 2050 12 0.575 161% 166 83% (35 Rem factory load, 24 inch barrel)
200 Rem RN 2381 12.5 0.675 189% 161 81% (358/35 Whelen handload)
200 Rem 2093 11 0.57 159% 166 83% (35 Rem Win factory, 24 inch barrel)
247 Cast SEACO 1750 15 0.535 149% 232 94%
200 PSP Rem 2648 11 0.73 204% 156 78% (Rem 35 Whelen factory load)
200 Spire PT 2479 15.5 0.64 179% 146 73% (Hornady handload)
200 Barnes TTSX 2499 15 0.77 215% 200 100% ***(200 gr TTSX, 100% weight retention)
200 Hornady FTX 2517 12 0.678 189% 150 75% (Hornady gummy)
200 Hornady RN 2415 12 0.59 165% 129 65% (Hornady 200gr RN)
220 Speer FP 2565 16 0.66 184% 150 68% (Speer 220 FP)
225 Hawk PT 2504 12 0.996 278% 185 82% (Hawk 225, incredible wound channel)
225 Sierra PT 2593 13 0.76 212% 181 80% (Sierra 225 Gameking)
250 Hawk FP 2424 12 0.905 253% 165 66% (Hawk 250, incredible wound channel)
250 Hornady RN 2342 14 0.622 174% 179 72% (Hornady 250 RN)
250 Speer PT 2348 17.5 0.73 204% 231 92% ***(Speer Hot Core, bear load)
*** Included in ballistic data above, at Whelen +P velocities
Note that this data didn't include any Nosler bullets, or the heavier Hawk bullets. I'd sure like to see similar tests run with full bore Whelen loads and a good selection of current bullets.
I have some takeaways from this:
- The 35 Whelen is a fine all-around big game cartridge as long as you don't mind some stout recoil - and even that is optional depending on how you load it.
- Some 35 Whelen +P loads are flat shooting enough to keep up with the 30-06 out to 400+ yards. That's certainly not how most folk think about the 35 Whelen.
- With suitable bullets loads can be developed that will do for any dangerous game that might fall victim to the 9.3x62 or other similar rounds.
What say the gun writers? <-- Test to see if anyone reads this far...haha.
(edited for a little better wording here and there...)
