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Well, I'm back with a few other tidbits to gnaw on.

A short synopsis of my last post sounds like this: I would not trust EPA as far as I could throw them in regards to this conversation, nor the state agencies that in theory administer the regulations they come up with. This implies of course that my distrust has little to do with the science, but rather the administration. There are so many stones they do not turn over in their decision making process it is perfectly laughable.

To the point referenced above about application of Sonar in what may or may not be construed as a label violation. I asked a simple question. Was it a label violation or not? A yes or no will suffice. In 1989 the state designated the system pictured below as Outstanding Florida Waters. It is, or was a vital component of the local economy for aquatic recreation to include swimming and fishing, both fresh and salt water.

1995


2008 when the Sonar was applied upstream.


A complaint was filed with EPA who in turn forwarded it to the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, the primary point being that it was applied to estuarine waters. FDACS said, no, it was applied to a system reservoir immediately upstream. Case closed. The river pictured above is DEAD and has been since this event.

My point is fairly simple, the system that so many think is functional, is not. I will reiterate a previous suggestion. Read the friggin' registration decisions. FYI, EPA considers herbicides and pesticides as one in this discussion.
https://www.epa.gov/pesticide-registration
http://npic.orst.edu/reg/register.html

Are these things carcinogenic? Yes, no, perhaps, who knows?

Does "L/Dxx" mean that all life forms will respond the same to a given dose? Not a chance in hell. That includes you. They examine a variety of life forms, to include micro/macro invertebrates, plant life, wild life etc. They do not examine all. The concept of lethal dose (L/D) means that the designated life form population percentage designated (L/D 50 = 50%) will expire in a relatively short time, such as 24 hours as example. It has nothing to do with carcinogenic properties. Do they examine carcinogenic compound presence? Yes, but only to a limited degree, ie, first tier. That means if a compound is not carcinogenic it gets a green light, even if it degrades into something that is.

Herbicide/pesticide chemicals leach into the aquifer, and in many cases their degradation process halts while entombed in sand/clays/sediments/limerock etc. The Sonar mentioned above has a "half life" of approximately 7 days. It has not been applied within the river system since 2008, yet it is still present in water quality investigations. Oh, it is a low concentration to be sure, even lower than the application concentration target of 12 parts/billion.

You interested in some more info? Take a look at the link below, specifically at page 21. Approximately 75% of the flows in this river originate from springs and baseflow. That is a fancy way of saying "the aquifer". One and the same source as our drinking water. You wont see glyphosate there because the samples were not tested for it..
https://www.warinconline.com/content/files/LWR_Phase%202_Interim%20Report%20070318.pdf

Did ya know that inhalation of a single molecule of plutonium can lead to lung cancer?
Are you tougher than me? How about your kids?

The point I'm trying to make is simple. These chemicals have a place to be sure, but there is seriously good reason to be skeptical about those who regulate their manufacture and use. The same mindset that gave us Agent Orange is still busy at work and highly influenced by political winds. Dreamed up by our buddy LBJ and put to use yet it was counterproductive in the battle field and dunned the taxpayers an awful lot of money when all was said and done. The chemists said they could make if faster with the use of heat though that would increase the concentration of dioxin significantly. Probably over $100 billion later we're still paying for it.

For those of you thinking about a visit to Floriduh be advised there are two rivers in the state that are discharging dioxin as a by product of pulp mill operations. The state has declined to set limits on this stream of pollution despite the certain consequences. Thank you Governor Senator Scott.

Politics and science are a seriously bad mix.