Originally Posted by DocRocket
...Well, TAK... it appears that in your estimation no one can discuss the term "scout rifle" unless they accept the Colonel's definition as the final definition, with no further debate as to what the term might mean in a world where guns and ammunition (not to mention tactics!) are continually evolving...
Well, as much as I admire the history of the development of the English language, I do not regard it as I do Latin or Classical Greek, which are immutable now being dead languages spoken only by scholars. Languages that are spoken in the vernacular, such as modern English, are constantly evolving in both grammar and vocabulary. These evolutionary changes are inevitable and in and of themselves are not necessarily bad....

So, let us return to the concept of a "Scout Rifle" in this same manner. Jeff Cooper wrote about the concept 30-some years ago. I have no illusions about the Colonel's imagination or inventiveness, so am fairly safe, I think, in the assumption that his concept did not arise in a vacuum. In other words, he talked about it with his colleagues, and the concept most probably took shape over time. In other words, it evolved. And given the kinds of rifles and actions and ammunition available at the time that Col. Cooper formed his concept of the Scout Rifle, the form it took was shaped by knowledge of those factors. So, on whatever day Jeff Cooper decided to dub his concept "THE Scout Rifle", that's what it was. But that's not what it is today.

So, to quote the Colonel, a Scout Rifle should be: "... a general-purpose rifle is a conveniently portable, individually operated firearm, capable of striking a single decisive blow, on a live target of up to 200 kilos in weight, at any distance at which the operator can shoot with the precision necessary to place a shot in a vital area of the target."

Now, look at the rifles being used in combat today, and even those being developed for modern combat. It's pretty hard to argue that the M4 carbine, which is in general use by our forces in the Sandbox today, does not meet Colonel Cooper's operational criteria. ...
the concept of the Scout Rifle has been adopted by the tactical community and has been de fact deployed in combat daily for the past 10 years or more in the form of the M4 carbine. Whether one chooses to adhere to Col. Cooper's definition as the final word on what a Scout Rifle is, is irrelevant...

Doc, I admire and respect your opinion---I get the feeling that you're speaking from a position of having "earned the right"--having said that, you're alittle off on your understanding of the etymology of the "scout" and certainly of the timeline.

Cooper addressed the issue directly:
"I do not own the dictionary, and I certainly cannot tell people how to use it, but it is annoying to introduce a term and then see people pick it up and run the wrong way with it. As I have often pointed out, I do not own the term "scout," but I did introduce it to the sport shooting community a good many years ago to describe a rifle of certain definite attributes. I do, therefore, try to define the "scout rifle" correctly and to resist its imprecise use. For example, one of the qualities of the scout rifle should be its adaptability to readily obtainable ammunition. Therefore the scout, as I see it, is a 308. Certainly there is plenty of 223, 30 Russian-short and 30-06 ammunition obtainable worldwide, but the carbine cartridges are underpowered and the 30-06 calls for a long action, which while not exclusionary adds a bit to both bulk and weight in a proper combination.

When we set up the criteria for the Scout at the factory in Austria, we agreed upon just two calibers, 308 and 7-08, the latter for use in those situations where the 308 is forbidden or restricted as a "military cartridge." But immediately the factory people pushed through a rifle in 223, simply to take advantage of the immense stores of this ammunition available throughout the world. The fact remains, however, that no rifle in caliber 223 should be called a Scout."

....this wasn't written 30+ years ago prior to the acsension of the M-4, this was written by Cooper in January of 2005. So, call the M-4 "a Scout" if you wish--call it a "Dreadnought" or "The Hammer of Thor" however realize that it's bastardizing the term as it was intended by the one originating the concept and the terminology.

Reflecting on this---arguing over the splitting of vernacular hairs is probably not time well spent---especially with ones of kindred spirit.

Last edited by gmoats; 12/06/11.

The blindness from subjectivity is indistinguishable from the darkness of ignorance.