Been meaning to do this for some time now to compile some Kimber of Oregon information in one place. I'll be posting up some KoO pics gathered from the web and I'm posting in the Hunting Rifles sub-forum as that's what these were all about. My intent here is to welcome any discussion, links, or references, good, or bad if you must, of the old Kimber of Oregon (pre-1991) or Kimber of America (1994-1996) including the sporterized Mausers. I'm linking to this thread on the main page 'reference' thread.
This is not for discussion of Kimber Manufacturing Co, Yonkers NY - 1996 onward. While the auto pistols were being prototyped in '95 I don't think they're of the right vintage for this. No Daewoos, no Montanas, no 84 30-06s, no Costa Rican woodshops...
I'll be including links to past 24hourcampfire.com threads too as time allows. If any heartache develops, please GFY.
For starters, here's mine, it's a Model 89 BGR 270 Winchester made in later '90. Has the Colton barrel stamp, my hometown, which the earliest 89s did not, they were stamped Clackamas as were all previous rifles before, IIRC summer 1990. It's very smooth operating, although I've not tamed it with handloads yet. I purchased it from a lying Texan SOB on Gunbroker who did not divulge a break in the stock... But, it is what it is and cost me about what they went for back in the day. I was only affiliated with the company as a lowly hourly employee during periods in '88-'91 and '94-'95. At times I worked directly with Greg and Jack Warne and developed a lot of respect for Jack. It was a rockn' good time of my life which I don't intend to divulge much about here, LOL.
When things KoO get brought up here on the Fire, I feel a desire to say a few things: I did not work on prototypes, I was not in the executive loop, I am not a Kimber of Oregon expert, I met but did not really know Dan Cooper, I did not know anyone that tested customer returned rifles prior to late Summer 1988, we in the woodshop did party A LOT, I mean A LOT, it was [bleep]'d but at times the Company had no choice (financially) but to ship rifles that we knew were not right, many KoO rifles were freaking awesome, we went thru a lot of Claro - over 500 blanks a week, the first Mod 89 BGR stocks that went out were fat phugging clubs shaped by one of the ol'timers of the company, I was freaking awesome at machine sanding, laminated 84 Varmint stocks caused our noses to bleed, the most accurate centerfire rifles I've ever shot were Remington 700s, the most accurate rimfire I ever shot was a Kimber of Oregon 82, Looks Feel Function and Accuracy were all top priorities, these were the finest Production rifles of the time, if it doesn't have a shadowline cheekpiece it ain't a Super... Always good to clear the air. Hope you got high speed!
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
For what it's worth, put the Gogglefu to work and here's a smathering of posts, not much edited for content, nor value, but dropped a few out of the results that were surely Yonkers related. Most (about the first 100 ) are from a Google search "site:24hourcampfire.com Kimber of Oregon" but the last several at the bottom resulted from Google "site:24hourcampfire.com Kimber of Oregon 89 BGR" as I knew a few of those specific to the 89 BGR hadn't shown up.... There are more too. Happy hunting, shooting, shopping, gunsmithing, or cursing as the case may be.
I make no claim to the following pics, they were in cyberspace and presented only for S&Gs and will remain as long as my hosting service and the the other powers at be allow. There are some rare or one-off specially produced rifles included.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Notice the slice mark down the side. Supposedly the army put these in storage in sealed plastic bags. Then came time for an inventory and the bags were opened with utility knives.... Many like this were sold thru the CMP. IIRC they were under $500, and that included the receiver sight. That scope mounts is not typical IMO.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
This butt is perfect. The pad is how they looked once we figured out how to clean them up real good. The Decelerators are pretty soft. Oh, we figured it out means our tooling guy called someone at Ruger and got the hint to use a large drum sander, low pressure air and 600 grit paper wet.... After that is was all me.
Now a few pics of the 89 African. These were really a joy to work on but less so to shoot, or so the story went... We didn't know what the *^$%^& a Gibbs or Rigby was but we all knew not to screw them up! The grips contained a handy little stash container; we thought that was totally tubular!
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Pure solid black ebony was hard to get in enough quantity at a particular time so some went out with not the purest.... A few may have gotten a bit of black stain but you didn't hear it from me!
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Well that clears out my pics for now and that's three hours I'll never get back! LOL. Hope someone out there enjoys. Seems the vast majority of pics that interested me enough to save are the '88-'91 phase, imagine that. Anyone feels they'd like to post up others, please do so but keep it Pre-Yonkers. Oh, any pics of KoO skeleton buttplates and grip caps would be appreciated, only a couple of us did those. Please recall some of this chit occurred 27 years ago, hell I can't remember last week. Cheers! This one looks like it was finish sanded by a trainee, phuggin flute looks like it's from Panama...
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
I recently acquired a copy of the September 1990 American Rifleman magazine in which this oft-referenced article written by Mr Finn Aagaard appeared. By the time this article was written the Kimber of Oregon Model 89 BGR (Big Game Rifle) had been in production for about one year. The flaws mentioned are really unforgivable critical errors. The praise for the design stands by itself in testament of what was nearly a darn good thing and Mr Aagaard describes the features like only a knowledgeable and expert rifleman could. I have included the best for now scans of the 4-page article here for the record. Please let me know if more detailed crops are desired.
In my opinion it was too much growth too fast for old Kimber of Oregon and it shows on these pages. At the time these rifles were produced the company had, in a couple short years, morphed from producing a handful of sporters a day to seventy-five M84 Governments and thirty to thirty-five sporters a day, often relying on non-rifle types to do the majority of the production work.
As a workman in the woodshop in Colton Oregon from 1988-1991 including the time when these rifles were produced, I'd say he got a dandy stock - as pictured - finally. So at least there's that. I had the pleasure of working with the company owners, tool maker and woodshop foreman in making critical stock design 'modifications', on the Model 89 BGR, 82 and 84 sporters, by locating then installing the buttpads (plates too) and grip caps and machine shaping the stocks on various belt and pneumatic sanders just prior to the shapers with their hand files. This machine sanding had a huge affect on production cycle times and ultimate overall outcomes, the size, shapes and contours we feel when we hold a rifle in our hands. Walnut - once it's gone it gone... I also did occasional shaping, fitting and final sanding work but the Machine Sanding Department was my place and I am proud to have had the chance to be a part of it. FYI at this peak production time the woodshop consisted of about six or seven shapers, myself and an occasional machine sander trainee (disastrous outcomes), three or five? finish sanders, a crew of finishers and about ten checkerer ladies. Myself and one or two ( 1.5?) of the shapers were the only ones that could machine sand worth a hoot, seriously it was easy to fubar them. It's generally described as having been a wild time in our lives.
I welcome discussion or PMs.
Cheers.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
First, thanks for posting. Lots of nice rifles. Second, since you would have handled most of the stocks, approx what percentage of the KoO rifles were Left Hand ? I know the LH KoO rifles rarely come up for sale, and when they do, they generally get snapped up pretty quickly...
Hi there Orion2000. You're welcome. I'm surprised these hosted images remain from the now defunct Google Picassa... I have another bunch of KoO pictures I'll possibly try to post someday.
As for your question, darned few and a WAG is less than 1%. On the 82s and 84s my area cut the bolt slots on a router setup and I don't recall a thing about lefties at the moment besides very small occasional batches. Seems I remember aiming the buttplate position for a touch of cast-off though, a purely 'eyeball' operation. BTW the bolt slot on the 89 BGR was filed by hand, with a bit of curve and variable width.... Anyways, there's a published booklet on Kimber of Oregon that may address the topic of lefthand production numbers. I know there's folks around here with it or otherwise knowledgeable on configurations and such. If I come up with anything I will follow up with you.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Here's another magazine write-up circa 1989 on the Kimber of Oregon BGR Model 89.
My friend is in the process of buying a rental unit that he'd lived in back when he and I worked at Kimber of Oregon, (at the Colton plant's woodshop) and he found this magazine in the attic. I acquired the same addition off Ebay and post these ten images to the best of my current tech abilities. LOL.
1989 October Guns MagazineThe Kimber Big Game Rifle
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
I recently acquired a copy of the September 1990 American Rifleman magazine in which this oft-referenced article written by Mr Finn Aagaard appeared. By the time this article was written the Kimber of Oregon Model 89 BGR (Big Game Rifle) had been in production for about one year. The flaws mentioned are really unforgivable critical errors. The praise for the design stands by itself in testament of what was nearly a darn good thing and Mr Aagaard describes the features like only a knowledgeable and expert rifleman could. I have included the best for now scans of the 4-page article here for the record. Please let me know if more detailed crops are desired.
In my opinion it was too much growth too fast for old Kimber of Oregon and it shows on these pages. At the time these rifles were produced the company had, in a couple short years, morphed from producing a handful of sporters a day to seventy-five M84 Governments and thirty to thirty-five sporters a day, often relying on non-rifle types to do the majority of the production work.
As a workman in the woodshop in Colton Oregon from 1988-1991 including the time when these rifles were produced, I'd say he got a dandy stock - as pictured - finally. So at least there's that. I had the pleasure of working with the company owners, tool maker and woodshop foreman in making critical stock design 'modifications', on the Model 89 BGR, 82 and 84 sporters, by locating then installing the buttpads (plates too) and grip caps and machine shaping the stocks on various belt and pneumatic sanders just prior to the shapers with their hand files. This machine sanding had a huge affect on production cycle times and ultimate overall outcomes, the size, shapes and contours we feel when we hold a rifle in our hands. Walnut - once it's gone it gone... I also did occasional shaping, fitting and final sanding work but the Machine Sanding Department was my place and I am proud to have had the chance to be a part of it. FYI at this peak production time the woodshop consisted of about six or seven shapers, myself and an occasional machine sander trainee (disastrous outcomes), three or five? finish sanders, a crew of finishers and about ten checkerer ladies. Myself and one or two ( 1.5?) of the shapers were the only ones that could machine sand worth a hoot, seriously it was easy to fubar them. It's generally described as having been a wild time in our lives.
I welcome discussion or PMs.
Cheers.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
I lusted after a .22. Hell, I still do. But I bought the next best thing I could. I have a Winchester M320 (I think) 22LR. It's made by Kimber of OR. I gave it to my son 2 years ago for Christmas. It's a great gun, shoots lights out, and even the magazines are Kimber of OR.
I bought a Super America 22 Hornet in about ‘85 based on the article that Layne Simpson wrote in Rifle of Handloader. When I got it, it had a reprint of the article that came with the rifle. It still shoots bettr than I can.
NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
Seeking pictures of the Model 89 BGR African, as well as skeleton grip caps and buttplates, pre-KoA, pre-Yonkers, pre-Kimber Manufacturing. Thanks guys.
Just noticed that the same photo appeared in both magazine articles.....
Last edited by MtnBoomer; 11/23/18.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Thank you sir! I will steal those pictures and post them up here. That's a good one, heck of a production rifle. Those came out at the peak, putting out like 75 Government 82s and 30+ sporters a day, 5 days a week 0700-2300! Lots of dust flying in the woodshop! A lot of pride for the guys that worked these stocks up. Rifles too I suppose. Dan Cooper was in Assembly at the time.... After the handy dandy machine sander hardware guy (me) got done with it a shaper would spend most of a day shaping and finish sanding. Only two or three shapers were talented enough to work on the Africans. (There were two guys that were excellent and another pretty good, a few ok and a couple would have been canned but were buddies) IIRC sometimes a regular finish sander would finish them up but it was a shaper's joy to make. These were most complex, to get right so all of the planes were flat yet contoured so the checkering pattern would layout. I see zero flaws on this one.... Just kidding, there's a few tiny ones. A thing of beauty all sanded up ready for checkering they were. This one's a real beut! Excellent shape job! Notice the grip cap has a compartment for extra sight blades. We joked we'd (pun) carry other stuff in there like condoms and such. LOL
Last edited by MtnBoomer; 11/24/18.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Thanks again! Note: a bit of detail was lost in the conversion. It is barrel stampted Clackamas....
24" tapered round Magnaported barrel with hooded full-band front sight, full-band swivel base, and quarter rib with 1 standing and 1 folding express sight. Figured walnut stock with ebony forend tip, double ebony-plugged recoil crossbolts, steel trapdoor pistol grip cap containing spare front sight blade, classic borderless point-pattern checkering, beaded pancake cheekpiece, inletted rear swivel base and maker's solid red rubber recoil pad. Kimber magnum (Mauser) controlled-feed dovetailed double-squarebridge action with model 70-type safety, four round magazine and hinged straddle floorplate with release inside triggerguard. Swarovski matte-finish, 30mm diameter, 1.25-4x24 scope with bold 4A duplex reticle on Kimber quick-detachable mounts fitted directly to receiver dovetails without separate bases. Pull: 14 1/8". Weight: 9lbs, 14oz. The original Kimber, built in Clackamas, Oregon. 99%+blue. $5995.
Last edited by MtnBoomer; 11/24/18.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Thanks for posting. I must be lucky as both of my KoOs are accurate and work flawlessly. I am trying to find out how many LH model 84s were made in 17 Remington? I couldn't decipher the serial numbers from some of the forums and do not have the book. Is anyone making a stock for Kimbers now? I keep thinking I want to up grade mine to the Super American level. Walnut Grove had some patterns but it looks like they are not doing business now.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
It was my 50th Birthday on Saturday and I spent the day working at my wife's Christmas Bazaar and doing chores. I checked a LGS and found a Kimber 89 BGR Superamerica in 338 in the box unfired for 975.00. I thought about it over night and decided that that probably was a good deal. I looked it over and it appears in good order so shazam it went home with me. I am at school so I can't post photos but I can tonight. The LGS owner thought that I should flip it for $300.00 profit. I thought oh hell with that. Its hard to find anything with nice wood these days and it was a looker as well. I put a post in GunWriters because I trust Steve Timm's experience with them. I am not going to rush out and set it up for tomorrow but it is a project that hopefully will pay dividends in the future.
Boomer, Cool thread! Here is my 17 Remington...Unfortunately, It’s from the Kimber of America location. I’ve heard stories that rifles coming out of this facility were “hit or miss”...Thankfully, mine has always been an excellent varmint rifle...
I knew a mechanic at Don Rasmussen BMW back in the late 80’s named Dave who’s wife was either an engraver or checker for KoO. They both hunted a lot together. He would bring in some of his Kimbers to show me the quality being turned out from KoO. I remember when he said Kimber was closing. Sad day for sure.
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog “Molon Labe”
It was my 50th Birthday on Saturday and I spent the day working at my wife's Christmas Bazaar and doing chores. I checked a LGS and found a Kimber 89 BGR Superamerica in 338 in the box unfired for 975.00. I thought about it over night and decided that that probably was a good deal. I looked it over and it appears in good order so shazam it went home with me. I am at school so I can't post photos but I can tonight. The LGS owner thought that I should flip it for $300.00 profit. I thought oh hell with that. Its hard to find anything with nice wood these days and it was a looker as well. I put a post in GunWriters because I trust Steve Timm's experience with them. I am not going to rush out and set it up for tomorrow but it is a project that hopefully will pay dividends in the future.
Thomas
Interesting perspective considering Steve's experience with Kimber of Oregon ended prior to the production of the Model 89.
Please post up some pics. A Super for $975 is absolutely stealing! Less than when new 28-29 years ago! Congrats. BTW Although my 270 Model 89 BGR Super America is finicky accuracy wise, it functions flawlessly and is damned smooth.... A joy to own as I hope yours will be as well.
Here it is trying some 140s....
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Nothing wrong with those Kimber of America rifles circa 1994-1996. Very low production numbers, really more of a custom rifle IMO. I shaped a few dozen of that era but got put to work doing handyman stuff, for a while... The website started back then, the KimberAmerica domain name went to Yonkers too and remains the same for the current Kimber Manufacturing Co. I may be the only one who notices but Scheels current hang tags say Kimber of America on them! Fluted barrels were pretty snazy back then. Same time frame as the Swedish Mauser sporterizing, 1911 prototyping, and Warne was making the Premier line and expirimenting with sintered alloys.... The stocks were inlet on a router duplicator with lots of hand work vs the earlier Kimber of Oregon that had a shaping machine called a Zukerman and were inlet with a CNC mill. Very likely to have initials JF inside? Thanks for sharing.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Just for conversation. Kaboku68's is earlier than mine (below). I am throwing out a guess that it's barrel marked Clackamas? Or not? LOL
Gosh, what a score for that price. Looks like it's barely been out of the box. Really cool.
Look at the length of the grip, more hook to it and the greater height behind the grip on the later production, barrel-marked Colton. Sure, mine has that flashy grain but it checked...... Anyways, that little difference in three dimensional space of where the grip cap ended up effected the outcome, feel and shape of the grip, trigger reach, overall size, how the checkering could layout etc. That was the evolution of the 89 stock. The bosses were always having us try a little of this, a little of that...
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
So the gun is marked Colton but the box is marked Clackamas. The paperwork has a serial number BGR160 which is covered and replaced with SF60XX. It also a combination of stuff that has Clackamas address and Colton Address.It also has an envelope that has a marketing survey addressed to Clackamas address. My guess is that it is early Colton.
So the gun is marked Colton but the box is marked Clackamas. The paperwork has a serial number BGR160 which is covered and replaced with SF60XX. It also a combination of stuff that has Clackamas address and Colton Address.It also has an envelope that has a marketing survey addressed to Clackamas address. My guess is that it is early Colton.
I mentioned earlier I think, how KoO expanded the operation greatly when they got the Army Mod 82 contract. This included maximazing available space in Clackamas and opening up a facility in Colton, like 20 miles away in later 1987 IIRC. After several months or a year, I think I guessed at the timeframe previously, Greg Warne was pretty happy with how the Colton plant came together with all stockwork, bolt assembly, final assembly, CS, and shooting that he changed the barrel stamp to say Colton. We Colton folk thought it pretty cool. As production increased, and refinements to the new Model 89 stock progressed we started upping the work on the 82s and 84s, finer checkering was one thing....Till doors shut in 1991 both Clackamas and Colton operated...
In 1994, the new Kimber of America opened up in the same industrial park in Clackamas, next to and alongside Warne. In late 1994, once again expanded to the same building in Colton for two purposes, the Swede Mauser project and to get the dusty woodshop away from Jack's CNCs!
Last edited by MtnBoomer; 11/28/18.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
In the lower right of this picture is an 82 Super America with a 'scalloped' step, or point.... Prior to '88 they'd stopped making them like that. However, in '89 or '90 we did a run of roughly 50? or so with that feature. May have been on the run featuring Schnabel-like forearms...
Inspiration many years later, it's a good way to retain lines while trimming away unnecessary depth - at any price point....
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Great, informative, and fun thread, MtnBoomer. Thanks.
Picked this .223 model 84 up off kalispell cabelas Used rack a couple years ago, serial number in 20’s. First kimber. Saw the pretty thing, light as a feather, and said, “Guess i could try one....” 😁 Helluva fair weather calling rifle, anyway. Shoots ok, 1.5 moa factory hornady sp’s, but with only an irregular dab of what looks like hot glue to suffice for bedding, suspect can improve upon that.
Take it this is a custom classic. B model?
Golldammed motion detector lights. A guy can’t even piss off his porch in peace any more.
"Look, I want to help the helpless. It's the clueless I don't give a [bleep] about." - Dennis Miller on obamacare.
Ok guys. See what I have mentioned about the, more detailed (points) finer lpi checkering on the later rifle of Teeder's? Mentioned on his thread iirc.
SC, what style safety is that 84?
3M 20 minute epoxy that is still holding up 30+ years. It was used from recoil lug, generally under the chamber, bedded to dummy actions as stocks were not linked to an action until final assembly, hence production rifles not custom. That same quality epoxy was used to glue on curved rubber pads on the Varminter (lam) Super Varmiters (Claro). Also for bedding the point area of piunted steel plates and securing all ebony tips. We could glue on a pad with it. An hour later slam that against the concrete floor and it would not budge. Been a 3M adhesives believer ever since.
Well, KoO went through a huge expansion with the Govt 82 rifle contract. Part of that expansion led to more attention to the woodshop and we, no fault of mine, it was Butch Wayand (Cascade Arms) and his influence with Greg Warne, started tweaking things. In 89 we started the 89 BGR and liked some things that spurred change on the 82 sporters and the 84s, little longer grip, higher lpi, more points, possibly a bit slimmer overall.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
I am a fan of the Kimber of Oregon in spite of the checkered history. I did not re-read this thread but is the Kimber collectors or some other group active that can tell me how many LH 17 Remingtons were made? I have only seen one other and one Cascade that I wish I had bought.
I have a Kimber 84 in .223 with a 3 digit serial number, 9XX. There are no markings on the barrel other than the caliber, .223. The receiver is marked with just the word "Kimber". I purchased it in late 1985 or January, 1986. My notes indicate I started loading for it in January, 1986. I have no other info.
I'm curious to know if the serial number is exclusive to the caliber .223. Is there any other info you care to share?
I dug up this thread to do some more research, as i just got one off gunbroker on accident... thought I was getting a 84M but it was an 84 with the roller safety. sporter model .223 serial number 28xx
posted on February 22, 2018 News, Rifles, Bolt-Action Rifles Support NRA American Rifleman DONATE kimberstory.jpg
I lay prone on the red-hot Kalahari dune and waited on the blue wildebeest to clear the herd. With the rifle’s plastic fore-end wedged smartly between the rubber eyecups of my binocular, my hasty shooting position felt as stable as a sandbag. Pending luck and a well-placed bullet, the bull’s backstraps would soon be our camp’s main course.
As I waited in ambush my mind wandered. I reflected on how I’d gotten here, so far away from the deer and ducks of my home, and more specifically, how the 5-lb., budget-priced rifle—a sharp departure from Kimber’s norm—had come to be. Notwithstanding a jaunt over the Atlantic rife with pitfalls, firearm permits and near jail time in Germany—it was a winding road indeed.
The now-wholly American brand called Kimber Mfg. took a rather convoluted route to marketing the rifles for which it is now famous. You might be surprised that Kimber’s story started not in Oregon, but in a seaside “City of Churches” in the Australian Outback. It goes like this … .
Kimber’s Story Adelaide, the capital of South Australia, is home to the majority of the giant land mass’ 1.5 million residents, and was also home to a citizen named John Llewellyn “Jack” Warne. Born in Kimba, a tiny bush town located on the Eyre Peninsula, Warne was a hunter, shooter and natural entrepreneur who started one of the biggest Australian construction companies at that time. (At one point, he was American ammunition giant CCI’s most valuable customer thanks to his company’s massive purchases of .22 blanks for its nail guns). In 1947, after World War II, the 23-year-old Warne recognized a need for sporting arms since most had been acquisitioned by the federal government for the war effort. So he founded Sporting Arms Limited—later simply called Sportco—where he began making sporting rifles for the public. You might recognize a few Sportco models such as the Model 62 in .22 Long Rifle, as its design was later sold to Winchester, which rebranded it the Model 320 and sold tens of thousands of units.
Under Warne’s leadership, Sportco was successful in firearm design and sales in markets both foreign and domestic, offering semi-automatic rifles, bolt-actions and pumps in smallbore rifles, rifles for big game and target shooting, and sporting shotguns. The company carried on for 20 years until Oregon-based Omark purchased Sportco in 1966 and hired Warne as general manager, relocating him across the world to Portland in ’68. Warne’s history with CCI led to Omark acquiring CCI, Speer, RCBS, Outers and Weaver in 1975. You’ve heard of Warne Scope Mounts? Warne started that company in 1991 after retiring from Omark in 1985. He also designed two rifle actions, a rimfire Model 82 and center-fire Model 84 in the late 1970s. At the time of this writing, Jack Warne is 92 and doing well.
With his father officially working for Omark, Greg Warne—Jack’s late son—used the two actions as a platform for the new family business, a high-end rifle company started in Clackamas, Ore. Both father and son saw a market for adult-style, sporting .22 rifles, especially since the Winchester Model 52 was defunct. After all, what hunters and shooters do not like a quality .22 rifle, accurate enough to win a competition yet practical enough for squirrels? When naming the company, Jack reflected on his joyful days hunting varmints around Kimba—the aboriginal name meaning “bush fire”—but added an “R” to give it an American ring. In 1979, Kimber of Oregon was born.
Kimber’s first rifle was similar to Sportco’s Model 44, yet when Jack invited outdoor writers of the day on a varmint hunt to test it, Outdoor Life’s Jim Carmichael rather sarcastically asked why its stock was so ugly. The rifle was functional, but a belle it was not. Heeding the scribe’s advice, what followed was an American-style .22 rifle that, in addition to a made-in-house match-grade trigger and barrel, featured an American-style, straight-comb, full-grain walnut stock designed by Darwin Hensley. The Model 82, available at one time or another in 11 models, was the company’s flagship. But the Warnes had visions of expansion.
Using the new Model 84 actions, Kimber soon specialized in making heavier-weight, small-caliber center-fires for benchrest shooting and varmint hunting. Perhaps the ultimate prairie dog gun, they were tack-driving accurate with outstanding barrels, stocks and triggers, and heavy enough to negate recoil. Quite simply, the Kimber 84s could make a novice shoot like a distinguished expert.
It was this success combined with customer demand that urged the company into producing a long action in 1989. The resulting rifle was called the 89 BGR (Big Game Rifle). Unfortunately, the company’s production demand overmatched its capability, and ultimately forced timber magnate/investor Bruce Engel—who had stepped in to rescue the company—to liquidate and sell Kimber of Oregon in 1991. Many talented employees, including Dan Cooper who would later form Cooper Arms, left. But Greg Warne had other designs.
In 1993, with the financial backing of Philadelphia businessman Les Edelman and the expertise of Boyd Metz, the trio started Kimber of America and focused the company on what it did best—high-end rimfires. Edelman bought Greg Warne out of the company and consolidated its rifle manufacturing to facilities he’d recently purchased in Yonkers, N.Y. The facility was Jericho Precision (JP), a defense contract machining company. (JP’s production manager—and later general manager of Kimber Mfg.—was Ron Cohen, presently CEO of SIG Sauer.) All post-2000 Kimber rifles use a claw extractor that borrows from both the Mauser and the Arisaka. The original Model 84M—to which this bolt belongs—was designed by Nehemia Sirkis.
With collaboration from handgunning champion Chip McCormick, Edelman retooled Kimber’s production to produce the venerable M1911 handgun. The timing was perfect, thanks to President Clinton’s gun ban in 1994 that outlawed high-capacity magazines and spurred consumer desire for an all-steel .45 ACP pistol to compete with the polymer, low-capacity 9 mm Lugers of the day. By 1997, all Oregon facilities had been moved to Yonkers, the company’s name changed to Kimber Mfg. and the pivot to handguns would almost begin to define the company—almost.
The Warnes, Edelman, Cohen and new Vice President of Marketing and Sales Dwight Van Brunt knew Kimber was still a rifle company at heart, and the operation was now better poised to innovate.
What was produced in 2001 proved to be game-changing. The Model 84M action, a proportionally sized clone of the pre-’64 Winchester Model 70, was designed by Kimber’s Nehemia Sirkis. It featured Mauser 98-style controlled-round feeding, dual locking lugs—with a third made by the root of the bolt’s handle—a forward recoil lug, three-position Model 70-style safety, blade-style ejector and an adjustable trigger. By any measure, it’s a superb action that forms the basis for all subsequent center-fire Kimber actions. Kimber already had a great brand name; now it had a new product to market. Rifleman coverage of Kimber center-fires throughout the years started with the Model 82C in .22 Hornet in 1983. In the late 1990s, the company reorganized and moved its manufacturing facilities to New York.
Modernizing Kimber Rifles Van Brunt strongly believed that there remained great demand for high-end center-fire sporting rifles, just as Jack Warne had years earlier. But he also realized technology had advanced. American hunters still wanted quality rifles, but many sought lightweight composite stocks and stainless steel barrels—guns that could be dragged up a mountain in the pouring rain. So Van Brunt went to work from Kalispell, Mont.
In late 2002, Kimber’s maiden departure from traditional walnut began. Called the Montana, the rifle featured Kimber’s proportionally optimized 84M action cradled in a hand-laid carbon-fiber stock and stainless No. 1-contour barrel. Chambered in .308 Win., the rifle weighed a feathery 5 lbs., 8 ozs., making it perfect for mountain hunting. Yet because the action was lithe, the rifle’s point of balance remained on the forward action screw even with a .308’s standard-length 22" barrel. This gave the Montana a marked advantage over lightweight production rifles that merely save weight by skeletonizing, fluting and hacking barrel length. For around $1,200, sportsmen could own a custom-like, ultra-lightweight rifle. Kimber 84M Classic .308 Win.
Sixteen years ago, $1,200 for a rifle was fairly expensive. Now, at $1,427, and with the addition of a threaded barrel for a suppressor, the Montana represents one of the better lightweight rifle bargains available. Today the company offers five featherweight rifles, including the Montana, Mountain Ascent, Adirondack, Hunter and the new-for-2017 Subalpine. But more on those later.
From there, Kimber became enthralled with the concept of building rifle actions to fit their intended uses. Much like a best-quality shotgun maker would never build a .410-bore on a 20-ga. frame, lest it result in a poorly balanced gun, Kimber believes in the same principle for its rifles. In 2003, the 8400 WSM action made its debut to take advantage of the popularity of the fat new short magnum cartridges. The action was identical in function but beefier to handle higher pressures.
With the company growing and its proportionally optimized action concept taking hold, Kimber’s next move was predictable. Certainly the company had tried and failed in 1989; but this time, Kimber Mfg. had the production capabilities to pull it off. So, in 2007, Kimber released its Model 84L.
The 84L is the same thickness as the 84M, just 0.77" longer to accommodate .30-’06 Sprg.-length cartridges. Soon Kimber released Classic, Select, Super America and Montana models chambered for America’s most popular long-action (sometimes called standard-length) hunting chamberings. As several writers of the day—including American Hunter’s editor in chief and this magazine’s own Mark Keefe—noted in reviews of the gun, the 84L action was long enough to eject spent magnum cartridges, and hinted at a true magnum rifle to come.
Indeed, there was a market deficiency in high-quality production guns for dangerous game. Hunters insisted on controlled-round feeding, but other than CZ and Winchester, there weren’t many affordable options available. An avid hunter himself, Van Brunt realized Kimber’s action would be perfect in this role, if only it were bigger.
In 2009, Kimber released the 8400 Magnum action that added to the length of the 84L and combined it with the robustness of the 8400 WSM. Models that utilized this action were the 8-lb., 10-oz., Caprivi chambered in .375 H&H Mag. and .458 Lott (.416 Rem. Mag. was added later), and later the 7-lb., 8-oz, Talkeetna in .375 H&H Mag. While the Caprivi, named for a game-rich strip of land in Namibia, targeted safari clients who often prefer traditional walnut, the Talkeetna was the Alaskan bear and moose hunter’s dream, thanks to its carbon-fiber, glass-and-pillar-bedded stock and stainless finish. Both rifles are purely Kimber, with match-quality barrels and triggers, yet both feature robust express sights, hearty recoil pads and a barrel band that relocates the sling swivel forward. All told, they’re flawlessly designed. Today you can buy the Caprivi or the Talkeetna for $3,200 and $2,100, respectively. The author has used various Kimbers in Africa—here a Model 8400 Magnum—but he used a Model 84M Hunter on his most recent trip. Despite its modest price tag, the affordable Hunter shot very well.
Kimber … Currently Somewhere around 2010 the tactical rifle craze exploded like a flashbang, and Kimber accommodated demand by introducing four rifles that feature custom-designed heavyweight stocks and heavy-contour barrels melded to the company’s vaunted actions. Most significantly, all rifles in its tactical category are guaranteed to shoot sub-half minute-of-angle (m.o.a.) groups.
A great example of just how far Kimber has sprawled from its roots can be found when it introduced its 11-lb., 6-oz., Advanced Tactical SOC (Special Operations Capable) rifle that featured a side-folding, adjustable, aluminum chassis stock to house its 8400 Magnum action and heavy barrel. The action was fitted with a steel, five-round detachable box magazine and an oversized bolt handle. Topped with Picatinny rails and a muzzle brake, it retailed for $4,400 and shot like the counter-sniper rifle is was. The three-position wing safety is at the bolt’s right rear. All the way forward is off, exposing a red dot. The middle is safe but allows the bolt to cycle, and all the way back locks the bolt and firing pin.
But then, as always, a shark-like industry responded. In 2015, mass-production gun companies such as Ruger and Savage introduced new waves of heavy-barreled tactical rifles that cost much less than the Kimbers. But the gun company from Kimba is currently firing back.
For 2018, Kimber has updated the Advanced Tactical SOC rifle with its SOC II. The folding-chassis-stocked rifle features a 22" threaded barrel, a forward night vision optic mount, an underside accessory rail, five- or 10-round Accuracy International-pattern polymer box magazines and the 0.50" accuracy guarantee that came with the original. Offered in .308 Win. or the popular 6.5 mm Creedmoor, Kimber reduced the original SOC’s price by about 45 percent to $2,449. For this price, I can’t readily name a premium tactical rifle available that compares in terms of quality and features. Consider that its McRees Precision G10 Standard stock—with features such as fully adjustable fit, integral bubble level and copious Picatinny rails—is very expensive on its own. Kimber offers it in sniper gray or flat dark earth models.
Noting the current push for loosening suppressor laws and a niche market that’s pushing tactical rifle makers to make them as compact as possible, Kimber also updated and reduced the cost of its SRC (Suppressor Ready Compact) rifle. With a 16" threaded barrel and aforementioned McRees folding chassis stock, this .308 Win. remains legal for non-NFA purchase, yet can be folded into an arm-sized package that fits into a backpack with the barrel only poking out slightly. With the hinged aluminum stock fully extended and a silencer screwed onto the muzzle, the rifle is right at the typical length of a normal tactical rifle, but one that is suppressed. Of course, velocity of the .308 Win. round suffers slightly due to the stubby barrel, but I can think of many mobile SWAT teams, plain-clothes operators and even long-range endurance-style competitors for whom the SRC II will shine. Like the SOC II, it’s also shipped with a denier nylon drag bag. Amazingly, it now costs $2,449 as well. What made Kimber rifles different were their adjustable triggers and actions scaled to their respective chamberings.
On the more traditional tactical spectrum is the LPT (Light Police Tactical) that could perform double duty as a hybrid target/hunting rifle thanks to its sub-half-m.o.a. guarantee, 22" fluted bull barrel, Picatinny rail, laminated-and-epoxied wood stock, matte finish, 8-lb. weight and modest price tag of $1,400. I can think of no other rifle guaranteed to shoot 0.50" groups in this price class.
These updated tactical offerings along with their new price points indicate that Kimber is doing its best to remain nimble and competitive in an unpredictable market that swings wildly with consumer trends.
Of course Kimber still churns out its bread-and-butter varmint rifles—it currently offers six heavy-barreled, wood-stocked models in small-caliber center-fires—but most notable is its latest 2017 model called the Open Country.
A coyote or long-range deer hunter’s delight, it features a reinforced carbon-fiber stock that’s then given a rubbery soft-touch treatment before it’s dipped in Gore’s Optifade camouflage. Its 84M action is chambered in the outstanding 6.5 mm Creedmoor cartridge. Combined with a 24" fluted barrel, the rifle checks in under 7 lbs., lending it a great mix of accuracy and mobility for $2,200 retail.
For all of Kimber’s rifle categories, however, perhaps the most impressive—from an engineering standpoint—is its lineup of ultra-lightweight rifles that spawned from the Montana. These models are available in three different action lengths, made evident in their respective weights. It underscores the importance of Kimber’s investment in its proportionally sized action concept. Today, Kimber offers the Montana, Mountain Ascent, Adirondack and its new Subalpine. These rifles are made in Kimber’s new state-of-the-art facility in Ridgefield, N.J.
Coated in a soft touch, Gore Optifade “Subalpine” pattern, the Subalpine rifle weighs an unbelievable 4 lbs., 2 ozs., in .308 Win. (84M action) with a threaded, bedded, partially fluted barrel; 5 lbs., 8 ozs., in a 24" barrel .280 Ackley Improved or .30-’06 Sprg.; and 6 lbs., 8 ozs., in .300 Win. Mag. Most impressive is that it, like the others, is guaranteed to deliver sub-m.o.a accuracy.
The Adirondack, with its threaded 20" tube, weighs just 4 lbs., 2 ozs., and, chambered in 7 mm-08 Rem. and .300 Blackout among others, is perhaps the ultimate truck and tree stand rifle. They represent the pinnacle of ultra-lightweight rifle technology. And because they are factory rifles, they cost around $1,700, a bargain considering the craftsmanship and materials within.
By 2015, if you thumbed through Kimber’s catalog (photographed, as always, by Mustafa Bilal), you might notice that most all bolt-action rifle niches were covered—except one. The low/mid-priced category. No doubt there were fiery internal debates about whether lowering the cost of a rifle by half would also lower its quality and, therefore, the brand’s reputation, but when it was all said and done, executives felt it could have its market share and keep its Kimber too. The just-introduced Advanced Tactical SOC II marries a Kimber Model 84M action to a McRees Precision G10 Standard aluminum chassis system with a folding stock and adjustable comb.
And that brings us full circle, to Kimber’s farthest departure from its rich history to date, and the one I had cradled between my cheek, shoulder and the conforming Kalahari sand. Kimber’s new 5-lb., 8-oz., Hunter model, thankfully, uses the vaunted 84M action, trigger and barrel, but it’s planted in a polymer—a fancy name for plastic—stock. Injection molded by a third-party vendor for Kimber to the same exterior dimensions of its other lightweight stocks, it utilizes two aluminum pillars that also serve as action screw spacers, a molded recoil lug recess and a honeycomb structure that adds some rigidity. The integrally molded trigger guard does away with bottom metal altogether, saving cost. The flush-fitting, detachable magazine is a combination of plastic and metal. Its plastic latch, which mandates the magazine be placed in the rear of the well and rocked forward, leaves something to be desired. I must report that I experienced a couple of jams that occurred when the magazine was both full and when rounds slid forward in the magazine after the rifle was jostled, causing the tip of the second round to impede feeding. Still, plastic-stock-feel and feeding hiccups aside, the Hunter is a lot of ultralight rifle for $700, even before its sub-m.o.a. accuracy guarantee. (See Craig Boddington’s article, “Meet Kimber’s ‘Hunter,’” Jan. 2017, for a full review. In it, he mentioned no feeding issues, so perhaps my test unit was an anomaly.) Editors of this publication’s sister magazine, American Hunter, liked the Hunter so much they awarded it with a Golden Bullseye Award for 2017 Rifle of the Year.
My Hunter averaged three-shot groups of 1.35", but produced a few under an inch with Federal’s Copper 150-gr. ammunition. Five-shot groups averaged 1.6". (See sidebar, “The Ultra-Light Tradeoff,” p. 53). But all I needed from it now was one good shot, from 305 yds., according to my Nikon rangefinder.
Moments later the young bull unexpectedly stopped and turned broadside.
Blam! The rifle lurched. Whop! The bullet reported. The beast, one of the most iconic of Africa’s plains game, kicked as if heart shot, then sprinted 20 yds. before confirming it. I stood just as a mighty slap on the back from Dreis, my professional hunter, rocked me forward in unspoken approval. I racked the Kimber’s bolt and slung it over my shoulder so lightly that it would almost be forgotten until I’d depend on it again.
As the storied rifle company with the distinctive name enters 2018, there’s at least one model that’s made from the action up specifically for your intended use. And if you always wanted one but previously couldn’t afford it, now there’s a Kimber for you, too.
For more information, contact: Kimber Mfg., Inc. (Dept. AR), 555 Taxter Road, Elmsford, NY 10523; (888) 243-4522; kimberamerica.com.
The Ultralight Tradeoff The only two complaints I’ve ever heard about Kimber both concern its ultra-lightweight rifles. The first complaint that is that the rifle is “whippy.” Frankly, a 5-lb. rifle with a No. 1-contour barrel is whippy. It’s like buying a ‘69 Camaro and complaining that it fishtails when you mash the gas. But, thanks to Kimber’s lithe 84M action that’s lighter than nearly all other production guns, the company’s mountain rifles are built to balance better than comparable rifles while not sacrificing barrel length. They may not be weight-forward like your 8-lb. Mauser, but they were never intended as such.
Secondly, plenty of shooters—including this one—have experienced lightweight rifles that throw fliers after five shots or so. I’ve shot Kimbers with this tendency. It drives perfectionists crazy, and certainly looks bad in magazine articles because it causes the rifle’s average group size to swell. This tendency, however, is the downside of pencil-thin barrels that heat rapidly, and thus, change position.
Kimber’s ultralights are intended as hunting guns, not benchrest rigs. They’re specifically made to be easily carried, because after all, rifles are carried for 99 percent of a hunt. And when they are fired, they’re fired with a cold bore. What is important is that it prints to point of aim, on the first shot, every time. You should also know that ultralight rifles are more finicky about ammunition. I recommend trying at least five loads, and preferably more, to find the most accurate. In this article Kimber Rifle, Kimber, Kimber 84M Classic .308 Win., Kimber 84M Hunter .308 Win., Kimber 84M Adirondack .308 Win., Kimber 8400 Magnum Caprivi .458 Lott, Kimber 84L Classic Select .30-’06 Sprg., Kimber 8400 Magnum Talkeetna .375 H&H Mag., Kimber 8400 WSM Classic .270 Win., Kimber 84M Montana .308 Win., Kimber 8400 WSM Classic .300 WSM, Jeff Johnston Related Stories
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Whilst the thread is up... These stocks were my introduction to KOO. The three of us made 75 a night. One guy taking blanks, bandsawinging away excess, and running them through a shaper machine called a Zuckerman, then a CNC mill. All one at a time. Then the other two taking the last batch, putting one plastic butt spacer on and an aluminum rail, used for sizing more or less. Then machine sanding. 80 grit, 5hp, 11"x12' beast of a machine, then the 5hp 6" on the contouring wheel, then pneumatic drum sanders 3" and 6" 80grit, then another set with 120 grit. Then mount up on a dummy action and orbital sand, PSA type, 5", Dynaorbrade brand. Each stock got a sheet until worn out of 120 gr, 220 then 320, ready for the finish crew the next day. Swing shift. Good honest slave labor for $7/hour. We could still smoke in the woodshop then, heck, they pay us for this! Yahoo. That was 1988, and it was totally bitch'n.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
[quote=OSU_Sig]I'm tagging this thread as I have begun a meager collection of LH Kimber of Oregon rifles. I'm up to 3 now. 22 Hornet, 222 Remington & 223 Remington.[/quote
[quote=OSU_Sig]I'm tagging this thread as I have begun a meager collection of LH Kimber of Oregon rifles. I'm up to 3 now. 22 Hornet, 222 Remington & 223 Remington.[/quote
A ny pictures of your collection?
Hal
Thanks Hal. I'll get some photos put up when I get home from this trip.
MtnBoomer or anyone else I have a few questions about Kimber stocks.
I have an 84M that was made in about 2006. Recently, because of shoulder problems I decided to cut the stock down 1/2 to 5/8 inches. When I look at the recoil pad I see no screw holes or marks so I assume the pad was glued in place.
Were the 84M pads glued to the stock?
Were all the 84M stocks made in 2006 carbon fiber or were other materials used?
If I cut off the old pad will there be any material in the stock to screw on a new pad or will I have to glue it on?
Just saw your post. Fairly long-winded here to add any details I can think of.
So, a 2006 will be a Kimber Manufacturing Company rifle, the period 1996-current. Sounds like you have a Montana. No, they also had wood versions at the same time. Other composites, no idea. Pad absolutely glued on, although some pads make it virtually impossible to see the screw hole.... This was carried over from KOO days. Long story, short version. They, the bosses, assemblers etc always wanted a screwed on pad. Mainly to allow removal while spray finishing and eliminate associated finish edges from masking the pads. However, nothing we ever tried, in the production setting, would match back up afterwards with satisfaction.... So we glued. Often on the Decelerator pad, the compression (over compression) of clamping, and possibly the chemical reactions of the glue curing would leave the butt pad 'sucked in' and a couple of pin pricks are needed to relieve.
No idea what they use(d) in the Costa Rican stock shop of Kimber Manufacturing. At Kimber of Oregon (pre-1991) we used a 3M 20-minute epoxy, and sometimes Satellite City cyanoacrylate medium (yellow) or thick (green). That epoxy was also used for bedding, recoil lug and around the floorplate, and afixing the ebony forend tips, and that glue, along with the thin red, and ample walnut dust for filling holes as well as sealing the end grain under metal butt plates and grip caps.... These pads were oversized, as "cast?" then sanded down after attached. That was my primary gig, after moving to the sporter crew, hardware and machine sanding... Refering to Mod 89 BGRs with orange Pachmayr Decelerators and two types of 84 Varminters, laminated and the Super Varminter with claro walnut, with 1/2" black pads, and curved surface. BTW Kimber of America (1994-96) used the same process as well. Don't know the KMC process on the Montana. Thinking they might be preshaped fairly close, glued on and minimally sanded, maybe just orbital sanders so they're flush?
I will wing it and say, there will most likely NOT be material to screw a pad to. So glue on, or, possibly fit and then glue in a wooden, or maybe a poly block - to screw to. We used to roughen the pads at the wood interface for better adhesion and also drill a bunch of 1/16" (or 3/32") holes for glue, in the plastic and wood, to really lock them together. This was on oversized rough machine-shaped inletted blanks... Those oversized pads made for nice abrasive belt cleaners each new stock. Machine sanding was THE key to this type of production.
I think the Montana will just have a "shell" to glue to with a foamy chit core and I would probably machine sand in place and then refinish the works. But, a guy could be careful about it and fit close, glue and wipe of excess. It'd be a mess of some type or another. Hard to get pads to hold still, stay positioned, while clamping, that has been my experience. If you are handy, shaping a block and screwing on a pad could save you refinishing the stock, depending upon your desired final outcome. I think the Montana stock is fantastic and really has the handling characteristics we sought back in the day, with some variation and no beautiful wood grain we all loved.
Originally Posted by FWP
MtnBoomer or anyone else I have a few questions about Kimber stocks.
I have an 84M that was made in about 2006. Recently, because of shoulder problems I decided to cut the stock down 1/2 to 5/8 inches. When I look at the recoil pad I see no screw holes or marks so I assume the pad was glued in place.
Were the 84M pads glued to the stock?
Were all the 84M stocks made in 2006 carbon fiber or were other materials used?
If I cut off the old pad will there be any material in the stock to screw on a new pad or will I have to glue it on?
Any advice or suggestions would be welcome!
Thanks
FWP
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Just read right through and to say this is a great thread is an understatement!
The photos and rifles are fabulous.
Always wanted a 89 BGR in something like the Gibbs. So few came to Oz and I don’t recall ever seeing one, but owned a couple of 22’s in the ‘80’s-90’s.
Must rectify this one day!
Keep it rolling, I am enthralled. Thanks MtnBoomer.
Always liked these. Just something different. Not much to add, however, I'll mention the process a bit more, in the Machine Sander and Hardware Department, a solo department, lol. Understand there's a batch of 12-15 or so to do that shift, maybe a mix of models.
Lay a wooden pattern on to draw approximate line of the curved butt cut, about 1/8" strong. Cut butt on bandsaw. Mount in a shaper jig and plane (vertical shaper cutter) curved butt and grip end... Sand pad surface flat on belt sander. They arrived as cast at Pachmayr, not like a retail pad. Drill a bunch of small shallow holes in butt end and pad where they'd not show when shaped, for epoxy bond. (The bond was stronger than the walnut, bigly. We tried several methods during prototyping with spare walnut, slamming the butt onto the concrete floor to test the bond. The 3M stuff was awesome.) Heat pad under heat lamp to soften for bending. Goop up with dyed black 3M 2-part 15-minute epoxy without getting it on the end of pad, hopefully. Clamp in a bar clamp for a while. Each grip cap base was machine sanded flat too and screw hole countersunk in-department. Two flat surfaces key for final gapless appearance. Meanwhile take a mill file and flatten a stock's grip, usually had to cut back, at the rear, about 1/4" where the machines couldn't get.... Hard to explain here without being wordy lol... Center punch (shop-made prick punch), drill hole, plumber's wax the screw, engrave production number from the stock barrel channel onto inside of cap, screw on grip cap. Each was eyeballed for lateral and fore/aft location and straightness. Every single KofO with a metal grip cap was eyeballed like this. I'd mount grip cap after the pad. (or plate) was installed to line everything up so we'd be straight, or slight cast-off, hopefully not cast-on, lol.... We didn't have a perfect mechanism for this. The inletting and rough shape always varied due to the way the stocks located in the machines, and needed enough extra material to allow eyeballing everything straight. This hardware stuff needed to be done damned well for everything to match up throughout production and get out the door polished and blued gap-free to an acceptable level... Also, cut the bolt slot on a router fixture. The 82 and 84s were a straight cut, EZ. The 89 BGR bolt slot was contoured, 50:50 machine and filed and sanded, more labor.
Slam bam wham on the belt sanders, 80grit. Bam on the 80 grit pneumatic drums, bam bam on the 120s... A bit of attention to the pad on a larger 320 drum. The pad would be done minus orbital sanding later on by finish sanders. The forearm near complete. Forearm tip rounded. Butt shape close minus the detail areas behind the grip, tang, flutes and cheakpiece of course... This level of production machine sanding required some technique. To sand the stock rail to 3/16" rolling and sweeping to maintain the flat planes on the countour. Couldn't just lay a piece of wood flat on the belt table and get a flat, it had to be a sweeping motion across the belt. Roll and sweep.
Well-done on the machine sanders would be an hour's difference for the shapers with the files vs half-assed. Times 8, 12, 15, 25 per day, thats extra work DAYS in the Shaping Department. That mattered bigly and was a major influence on the production cycle times, overall final stock contours AND size. The stock duplicater at KoO (process on the bandsawed blank prior to the CNC inletting step) was not as refined as some of the day, and nothing like the modern stuff, I imagine. The clunky chunky factory chit these days are generally abhorrent. LOL Any that isn't I give kudos... The big 5hp belt sanders could eat a stock in zero time. A couple of the best shaper guys could use them good, besides the hardware guy, nobody else allowed. LOL. My training for sporters, after having worked on the Government model for several weeks, I toasted no fewer than the first 8 sporters I tried. 82s or 84s with flat or pointed metal plates, that's all there was then ('88) at KofO, besides the 82G that had the LOP spacers. Tangs and pointed buttplates, rails, the grip. All very easy to wipe out on such powerful machines. We'd machine sand right into the metal cap and butt plate, production not custom... We ran out of extra practice wood and had to get it, and did. LOL A few thousand later I gotta say I became damned handy. I was young, balzy, ambidextrous and a showoff at the sanders. That's why Greg Warne liked me.
Obviously it was an interesting time for myself and all the other guys in the woodshop, totally gnarly dude...
Last edited by MtnBoomer; 11/02/22.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Man, those are sweet rifles. I’ve seen some I was dying to get but always wondered how well they shot after hearing extreme goods and also, extreme bads about them. They are great looking rifles though.
Mtnboomer thanks for the awsome information and pictures, I picked up last year a clackamas built 22 lr it has a roller safety and serial number in 80xx I have read the serial number are all over the place any idea when it was built?
Hi there. Nice 82! Do you have your rifle handy? If so there's someone looking for pictures of the "underside" of the bolt shroud. Some detailed pics would be appreciated.
Likely earlier than '89-'90. I suspect prior to the '88 expansion with the 82G production. So, it'd been fully made in Clackamas. Or possibly very early Colton woodshop as there were some changes to the checkering details... Should be a fine squirrel gun.
Last edited by MtnBoomer; 11/03/22.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Gulp! Thanks. I hope so... I'll be sure to add details at a later date. Looks to have excellent shaping, finsh, and checkering. With my hometown barrel stamp, I will be pleased to own it.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Thanks It was a birthday gift from my wife last year, I haven't had much time to shoot it yet though. And I can put some pictures up tommorw when I get home just let me know what you need. Any thing else I can take pictures of to kinda get idea of the manufacturer date.
Here's something unique. Will take a few to layout.
A unique 84 marked Clackamas. Unique shaping ahead of the shadow line, unique checkering, unique inital stamping in the barrel channel, unique inletting and epoxy, and stunning very unique receiver with recoil pins!
Owned by a CF member, and he's the third CF guy we know of.
Guess is a pre '87 expansion, prototype for someone.
Anyone know? How about you lurkers? Come'on man.
Big chipout at the toe... Bummer. Note the single studs not two screw. Machine sander nailed the buttplate point, lol.
What's up with this? Damn. Anyone?
Last edited by MtnBoomer; 11/06/22.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
I don't know why I haven't noticed this thread before, but what an incredible documentary of Kimber rifles..............never have seen anything better here.
I have a Kimber BGR 89 story to tell as well. Here's a link from a few years ago when I had it up for sale as well as a seperate pic that didn't come through from the old posting of the new recoil lug bedding.
Never sold it as I had some offers for trades, so I've just kept it.
I'm glad someone else is as befuddled as I was with this rifle
I'll be darned. Mr Barsness recognized it as a stock he reworked wayyy back in the day! Here's his reply from another thread....
For clarity this is regarding the Model 84 with unique checkering and concave work at the point.... And others indicate that receiver machining style was normal on early 84 Supers, '84-'85 vintage roughly.
Thanks 'Fire!
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
It's a refinish/rechecker job of what I recall was a factory stock. I did the exterior work in the early 1990s--and may have done some epoxy-bedding touch-up. (This was obviously a long time ago.)
It belonged to a friend of mine, who traded me Ruger No. 1A 7x57 he couldn't get to shoot for doing the refinish/recheckering--which was a PITA because the wood was a typical soft piece of Claro.
A few years later he traded me the .223 for doing a stocking job on another Ruger single-shot of his, which he'd had rebarreled to the .375 Krag wildcat, the .30-40 necked up. (He was a really far-gone loony, who had inherited enough money to do about anything he wanted, but more than occasionally cheaped out because he'd been pretty poor before the inheritance came along when in his late 40s.)
Eileen mostly shot it at prairie dogs--the reason we made another interesting discovery about the rifle. We got together in early May with some friends for a PD shoot, and the first morning turned out to be pretty cold, somewhere in the 40s. The Kimber started misfiring, so Eileen switched to another rifle.
When we got home I took the bolt apart, and found it complete packed inside with heavy grease. I got rid of the grease and it never misfired again.
A couple years later I was on a PD shoot with Steve Timm (kududude on the Campfire) and he'd been "consulting" with Kimber around the time the rifle was made. Steve said there was a retired guy working for Kimber then, who I recall had been an auto mechanic, who firmly believed in "greasing" the insides of the bolts.
It shot well, but eventually Eileen acquired another .223 with a heavy barrel she liked better, so we sold it in 2004.
Last edited by MtnBoomer; 11/08/22.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Excellent! Thanks for adding the link. In 2014, I definitely couldn't afford! LOL
Appreciate your kind words. It's an ongoing walnut love affair from an interesting, and wild time of my early adulthood.
Well-done on the repairs, it's set for the long haul now with zero concerns imo. Also, your rifle appears to be be shaped and finish sanded most excellently! The sharpness of detail at the back of the flutes is A#1 work, exactly how they were supposed to be. More fresh detailed pics are always welcome.
Added... One thing I'd recommend is to remove the epoxy from the bottom of the recoil lug area. Something we generally did on the heavier kickers. As is typical for such things, YRMV. Your epoxy work looks great and I mean nothing to suggest otherwise.
Thank you for your input sir.
Originally Posted by MontanaMan
Boomer,
I don't know why I haven't noticed this thread before, but what an incredible documentary of Kimber rifles..............never have seen anything better here.
I have a Kimber BGR 89 story to tell as well. Here's a link from a few years ago when I had it up for sale as well as a seperate pic that didn't come through from the old posting of the new recoil lug bedding.
Never sold it as I had some offers for trades, so I've just kept it.
Here's a Kimber of America 82 SS Varmint (period 2994-1996). 4th up from bottom shows some funky finish? Not sure WTH... Note, single screw stud, thin Accelerator, simple checkering pattern... Fluted barrels weren't too common. Simmons scope, lol.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Mod 89 BGR 300 Weatherby. Flutes, shadowline and point where they meet are just like they are supposed to be. Note the ginormous gap in front of the bolt release. Goodness.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Speaking of deep pockets... A Colton marked 89 African in 505 Gibbs. We in the wood shop and folks throughout the various production lines took huge pride in making these. We all preferred this than banging out 82 Government clubs....
Shaping the back of the left flute and the shadow line nearby is not for the average file jokey. Looks EXCELLENT throughout.
Note, this is the rifle model of the Prototype that Mr Aagaard received - that the front sight fell off! Damnit! LOL That sucked bigly.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Note the shaped point in front of the floorplate...
Epoxied curved rubber pad. Drilled a bunch of holes into the back of these and the stock to link up when bonding. Heated with a lamp before bending and gluing. The 3M epoxy was so strong we could slam one (a reject of some sort) on its edge onto the concrete floor and the walnut would break, the bond wouldn't. In 35 more years? Hmmmm.
Definitely the vintage I was engaged with....
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
This beautiful Custom Cascade 82 shows a skeleton grip cap. (Need pics of KOO skeleton butts btw).
Anyways. A dirty little secret. Some skeleton stuff was fitted to the hardware - off the stock - and then epoxied into place. Sometimes a piece of scrap from the same blank was used, sometimes not. Recall, this was a production shop not custom shop and there was a lot of money into a stock by then.... An easy job to fubar. Still...
A couple of the best shapers, or the hardware guy fitted them depending upon the current work flow. A pre-Colton gun.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Looking for the following pics of Kimber of Oregon rifles to add to this thread.
Schnable forearm series with decorative point. Don't remember if it was a model 82 or 84. Only made like 30-50? or so in about 1990. IIRC they'd made some similar in years past...
Skeleton buttplates and grips.
89 Africans
Super Varminter with beavertail forearm, ebony and curved steel or curved rubber butt plates. 84s iirc. OOPS, SUCH WAS POSTED 11/02/22. And a VERY pretty one at that! Here it is again.
Laminated Varminter 84s with beavertail forearm. This stock material caused some of us to bleed from the nose. One guy from the ears! Was told to stuff our cigarettes butts in there - get to work! LOL Eventually cigarette smoking was forbidden in the woodshop, UAs were threatened and face masks arrived! Job went all to Hell in a handbasket! 😁
Last edited by MtnBoomer; 09/05/23.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Here's the laminated type mentioned. It was described as an All American Match, Kimber of Oregon model 82 22lr. Although not new to the rifle world, the laminated stock wss certainly not mainstream in '90. Hard as a rock, extremely dense material...
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Another find.The 82 unerschnitzel! LOL Ok, it's not much of a Schnabel. This appears to be the pre-'89ish version without shaped point ahead of the trigger guard and very basic two-point checkering. When directed to remake these later we wondered why, if they're a "special" run, then why wouldn't they have a pointed buttplate and/or be a Super?
Still seeking pics of the series with the point shaped ahead of the trigger guard.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
I'd like to get ahold of it and add ebony, shadowline, skeleton hardware, and get some fine-line multi-point checkering. But, it was done well to their design criteria at the time produced - to my eye.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Thanks for the pics! Dandy sporter. Do you know the vintage? (edit. I just read they're early 80s pre-dating the Super American. Possibly 500 (or 535) made.)
Here's another 82S. That point is the same style I've recently mentioned appearing on limited runs with Schnabel forearms. I like this a lot.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Thanks for the pics! Dandy sporter. Do you know the vintage? (edit. I just read they're early 80s pre-dating the Super American. Possibly 500 (or 535) made.)
Here's another 82S. That point is the same style I've recently mentioned appearing on limited runs with Schnabel forearms. I like this a lot.
MtnBoomer, beautiful S series rifle. It appears to be a B action (judging by the bolt sleeve and bolt handle), though clearly an S series stock. Interested in your thoughts/observations.
Here's a little Kimber lore regarding a store that handled them in the middle of no-where in an unincorporated NM community of about 30 people.
Prior to the mid-1990s or so, there was a mercantile that seemed like it was out of 1800s in Milnesand, NM. The old man that owned it, Mr. Davis I want to say but could be wrong, always kept a big selection of really nice guns. In the early 1980s, he had the best selection I had seen up to that point of original Kimbers plus a lot more stuff in stock. They seemed to always have a dozen or so Kimbers, but my memory may be slipping. I remember handling the original 82s and 84s in all sorts of chamberings there in elementary school and thought they were greatest manmade inventions I had ever seen, but I learned to read in the Gun Digest and Shooter's Bible and pretty much had a one-track mind. The Super Americas were incredible.
My dad drove a good ways to go there and pick out a scope for my first .22, a Remington 581 for which my dad reshaped and cut down the stock to fit me. The mercantile had a big cardboard box of used scopes. I looked through the box and tested scopes by looking at sandhills a quarter of a mile or so out the front door of the store and chose a steel-tube Weaver 2.5x. My dad paid $20 or thereabouts for the scope and mounted it on the 581.
The Mercantile was in the metal building in the Wiki page that is now the post office. From what I understand, Mr. Davis (I think) in addition to Kimbers was a HUGE Winchester collector and his collection of M21s, M70s and lever actions went up for sale when he died in the 1990s and the store closed.
Pic of the store that was a big Kimber dealer on this Wiki link:
One other thing: did Kimber produce rifles in wildcat calibers? My memory is Davis Mercantile had .22 Hornets and .223s but I also seem to remember what appeared to be new factory rifles in wildcats, too. Did they possibly chamber for things like .17 K-Hornet, 6x45, etc?
I had an 82S 22 Hornet that had all of the bells and whistles, inlayed/checkered pistol grip cap and butt plate, quarter rib and, of course, beautiful wood. I should have never sold it. One of maybe a handful of regrets. This 30-06 is a very recent addition. A Colton gun that appears to be unused. My Talley bases arrived on Friday so I will mount a Leupold VX-II 3-9 on it and take it hog hunting in March.
There is a similar thread with many Kimber pics in the Kimber forum on RimfireCentral.com. It's at the top of the forum and is titled "Show Me Your Kimber." Most of the rifles pictured are rimfire. Thank you for putting this up MtnBoomer.
To ride hard, shoot straight and speak the truth. NRA Benefactor Member
One other thing: did Kimber produce rifles in wildcat calibers? My memory is Davis Mercantile had .22 Hornets and .223s but I also seem to remember what appeared to be new factory rifles in wildcats, too. Did they possibly chamber for things like .17 K-Hornet, 6x45, etc?
They absolutely did. I suspect part of the motive doe so many calibers was the scheme that a buyer could subscribe to a serial number and have additional rifles laid back for him with that number. I expect they sold more rifles that way.
Nabbed a SVT 223 yesterday,though made on the "wrong" Coast. Hint.
Ordered a herd of Hornie 62 ELD VT's to cross fingers with,in the OEM 1-9" spout. Likely won't work,but will be Magical in The Carbon Queen 1-7" Brux 224 Grendel. Hint....................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
I VASTLY prefer the 84M receiver,due the far greater COAL latitude in 223. Hint.
I tend to flog upon wares and "Collecting" is the furthest thunk away from me. Hint...................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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