Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Originally Posted by jorgeI
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Originally Posted by jorgeI
It makes sense if you are doing it "for the women"... I just read and talk face to face w guys that were THERE on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan and they tell me the 9 SUCKS. Not to mention JWP's link above.. 9mm is for girls...


And how did it "suck"?

How did the 9mm stack up against .40s and .45s in side by side comparison?

What was the sample size for each caliber?

What loads were they using? Because if they weren't the loads the FBI considered or what I'll carry, I couldn't give a flip less about somebody's "one time at band camp" stories.


Afghanistan and Iraq were "one time at band camp"? seriously? See JWP's link on US Army tests on the 9 v 45.


For the most part, yes. Because the stories almost always come from people with no actual field experience that are second hand at best and have no basis in anything resembling scientific, unbiased testing. Until I hear the basis for an opinion from "the sandbox" I treat them all as band camp stories.

You're welcome to prove me wrong by providing answers to the very simple questions that would dispel all doubts about whether or not someone should trust the source.

And I did see the link from the test ONE HUNDRED AND ELEVEN YEARS AGO.

I also saw a report from 1951 about there not being a vaccine for polio. And a study from 1928 that said penicillin didn't exist.

Maybe, just maybe things have changed since NINETEENFREAKINGOHFOUR.


The Thompson-LaGarde tests were done with non-expanding bullets and it's generally recognized as nearly difinitive for non-expanding bullets; even 100 years later. The ONLY change has been development of the 9mm which has increased terminal and barrier penetration only; pretty much nothing else has changed with non-expanding handgun bullets in the past 100 years. Sure there have been some exotic developments, but no major military uses such ammunition so it's kind of a moot point.

JWP was talking about non-expanding ammunition and for that, the Thompson-LaGarde tests were pretty darned good; so much so that no one has felt the need to re-do them. And ballistic gelatin tests have really just confirmed Thompson-LaGarde.

Now when we get to expanding, the whole world changes.