Loads of interesting observations and opinions on this thread.
Thanks Mr Mule Deer for attempting to interject some sanity here. T also.
You fellas that live with them and hunt them and their prey have provided some valuable info too.
Lonnie, thanks for remembering the bad winter up there. A number of folks have mentioned finding bone piles and seemingly attributing them to wolf (bear and lion also) predation, but who's to say, without bringing in the CSI team to do forensics, that the bones aren't from a natural death that was scavenged by predators.
(include some lost wounded game there too ) .
I'm pretty sure the wolves have had an effect, how big is very debatable. Others have mentioned elk and deer being seen in ag fields more frequently. Escaping from wolf pressure? Escaping from more hunter pressure? Or just smarter animals over time knowing where the easy living is? Let's see, good groceries, water nearby, open space to see predators.............nah, I'd rather scratch out a living in the bush where the toothy things are after me.
I know a few folks in AZ that have been hunting elk in various units for 40+ years, mostly ranchland units, not the high mountains. They say numbers are down due to the ranch owners pressuring the game managers to issue more cow tags. Realize, a cow tag after the rut is likely reducing the herd by two animals the next year. Maybe 1.5 factoring in calf survival maybe. Do that a few years in row, or longer, and what happens to your herd numbers? No wolves in that part of AZ...yet, as Sycamore pointed out. Maybe those two fellas who's names he mentioned will chime in with what's going on with wolves in that E part of the state. Been nearly 20 years since I lived up there.
(sarcasm font on) I can't wait until the wolves get established in numbers here. Will be fun when we take the dogs on walks out the back yard on the BLM land.(sarcasm font off) There are low numbers here already, but no established packs right in our area that I've heard of...............yet.
Perhaps, as others have alluded to, the wolf/game animal ratio will vary on a cyclical basis as it's said rabbits and their predators do. We moved here 3 years ago and it was common to see numerous (5-10- even 15) jackrabbits and cottontails along the 15 mile drive back from town at night. Many nights this year I haven't seen a one. Without actually being able to survey the local coyote packs I have no proof, but from the nightly sounds the numbers in the 3 packs I commonly hear around the place are down this fall too.
One thing is sure, until there is a major regime change here in CA, we'll never be able to hunt them............and trapping for "fur" has been outlawed too.
Geno
PS, having met Sycamore in person, I can tell you he's not as bad a guy as some of you folks make him out to be.
