I speak not only of my own inference, nor do I flaunt my singular opinion for opinion's sake, but rather draw from the vast sentiment of my fellow Freedom Loving Americans.

It remains doubtful Obama voter, that a great many of you will understand these words, but then again, there is always Hope...isn't there.

That you cannot see the forest for the trees is your greatest downfall. The irresponsible use of your vote in November of 2008 has returned us as a Nation to 1773, and to 1859. Your blatant disregard for the Freedom of your Countrymen is the sole reason we now suffer your Manchurian Muslim and his socialist aspirations.

Your choice of leadership has been a grave mistake. One that threatens the very core of our Constitution.

You, Obama voter, have facilitated the enemy of Liberty thereby rendering yourself the enemy of Freedom....this is your cross to bear, comrade.

You have made the conscious decision to become the threat to Our Freedom, plain and simple.

This is your cross to bear, comrade...and Our ax to grind.

The Hope that you thought to be so worthy of your vote would now be best used towards a peaceful outcome to future conflict between us...though I fear you have awakened a sleeping, and unforgiving, giant from the depths of American History.

Do, now, pray to whatever heathen god you aspire for that none of us ever meet you on the battlefield. You are not one of us, nor will you ever be, for you are the enemy.

No quarter given, and none taken.

In honor of the great Patrick Henry 235 years ago today, give me Liberty, or by God as my witness, give me death...........

Excellent post!

Well said Sir.

That damned ol' hillbilly can write, when he wants to.

If any of us had any sense at all we would march up to the capitol buy the thousands with firearms in hand and take this country back.

What is it going to take.....I am ready now.

Hell yes. Civility is overated anyway.

We are a band of brothers

BCR

Be careful what you wish for.

And, "May you live in interesting times".

Hoo Rah!

Is there enough of us....God i pray that there is...maybe 1:3...but I'll take them odds

The inevitable....will ALWAYS happen.

Very Nicely Done

The original Patriots consisted of only 3% of the population.

Food for thought..........

Plus 1,000,000. The quote " God forgive them, for they know not of what they have done" comes to mind Russ

Think I'm not alone here - not fixin' to fly off the handle and do anything rash,
but it looks like there's coming a time when odds won't really matter, I'd rather
fight and lose than live the way they want me to.

Well said, very well said indeed sir!

I agree....but more than 3% took up arms...I can only speak from my experience....and I am not amoung the many in my circle...I am surounded by "rednecks" and they don't have a clue what is going on...were oblivous to the "assualt weapons" ban...until it was too late...then they all of the sudden cared enough to buy a couple of 15rd mags...when they went to 1 gun show...The fire has the benefit of having enough people who shoot...care about guns...and knows a little of what is going on...and we are a very few....I am really an optimist at heart...but too much of a realist to give much faith in our brethern after the last election...and reality

I will stand and fight with you sir, any day......

Woooo!! [bleep] right!


Well done!!

Love it!

Well said!

Man, we have us some real melodrama going here.

And I thought I was the only one pissed about this, the time may come to take back our country. I felt it would not have come this far so fast, it is like there is no stopping these socialist bastards who have taken over.

You sir would do well to realize this sentiment extends FAR beyond this small gathering of Patriots here.

Far and wide, low....and high.

I pray that there is enough like minded...I will die beside you if that is the answer...mark my words...

Left coast.....'nuff said.

Many Obama voters were duped by the media, fooled by Obama, weary of Bush and didn't like McCain. Many now realize they made a big mistake. The "Independents" are really pizzed off. The other fecal heads don't even realize what they have done.
The problem is, Obama is on the march with his ideology. He controls both Houses, the electronic and print media and is on a "high" after health care.
The Constitutional based lawsuits pending have a small chance and will take a long time. But they have merit.

I am there....regardless of my perceived skepticism...I am not skeptical of your resolve in the least...I am skeptical of the number of the like minded.

Boondocks...nuff said.

You are correct to an extent...but don't fool yourself...the repubs are on the same track...a slower track....but the same one none the less...

I give the legal process on this about 0% chance of working. I just don't see SCOTUS turning it over. I don't see a lower court doing it either.

What's said here might be more than blowing smoke in the wind...

Ignorance, is a lousy defense.........

Comrade.........

Good Sentiments,...well written WW.

GTC

When is it enough for you to say the current situation can't be fixed without blood?...Vote for McCain and all will be good???? Give the .gov 49% of your paycheck...but not 50%???? when are you willing to stand and be counted?

Awesome post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A great bumper sticker for supporters of the halfrican.


did you vote for obama?

Thanks a lot arsshole.

Hey California, since we were all pooched by your state in the last election, how's things going out there Russ

Many of us are firm believers that it is better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

Give me a break, I hate liberal politics just as much as you, but I'm not going to pound my chest, talk like Patrick Henry, and act is if I'm gathering my ammo. It's all talk, you are no more likely to pick up arms tomorrow than I am.

I understand you are pissed, so am I, but I'm willing to wait until November before I Paint my face.

Yes Sir!

Come on TLee, you aren't going to die on your feet, your going to vote in November same as me.

Sit down and let the men handle this, if it needs to be handled.......

Boondocks...nuff said.[/quote]

Most of us are proud to be from the boondocks. Much better than being a sissified city slicker. (not saying you are 1 but you sound sort of like 1)

Sir, if there was a legitimate call to arms tomorrow I would NOT wait till November. That is a fact of life, I am an old man, read my sig line.

I think liberals as part of their definition are cowards. Their inclination for confrontation is like rats or roaches. They want to kill like a cancer but would never risk striking a wound. Liberals don't have a since of sacrafice for something bigger than themselves, they are the center of their own universe.

If we get our courage up and stand for liberty,freedom and all our "God given rights" we will send them scurrying back into their holes. But we are gonna' have to get mean. They are counting on us not uniting, I hope they are wrong.

Tarheel

July 4th???

OK, when will I know when it has been handled? I bet tomorrow we find you right here on your ass reading the Campfire.

Good to know Sir. To those wondering about whether or not
the general populace could ever be roused up to take action,
no answers here, just lots of the same questions in my own mind.

Perhaps I have to much time on my hands, do too much thinking,
but I have often reflected on the trials generations before
me have endured, and shown their greatness by overcoming -
civil wars, world wars, great depressions among others.
I've wondered if "we" nowdays would have the grit to take
care of business if put in those situations. I've felt that
even though I've not really done anything wrong, I've lived
a spoiled life,
untested and untried, enjoying the fruits of generations before mine's labors. Voluteered and serve a hitch
in the military at 18, but don't really consider my personal
peacetime experiences any contribution worth remarking on, even
proud of the military though as I am.

I've finally found some peace of mind is just knowing it's
been a great ride, no regrets, and there are a whole lot of good things here worth fighting for, regardless of the outcome.

Well wait a minute, I thought you just had your call to arms.

Very well done sir.

I never thought there would be any reason to regret moving to Alaska but here it is. There is no way I can jump into my truck and head to D.C. to join in any protests. Well, I guess I could but it would take a week and a half to get there and if I had wanted to take any self protection devices with me they would get confiscated at the border.

If it were a legitimate call to arms I'd join you.

Great post, but I couldn't help fixing it up a little for ya'...........

Whew, I bet that was good, but I wouldn't know, couldn't see it.

1) repeal - no that doesn't mean you're a party member.

2) constitutional convention - neuter the bastards.

3) all options are on the table. Let's hope that doesn't happen.


Yes, it is their cross, and our axe to grind, and I'll never let 'em forget it - ever.

The fact that Freedom Loving Americans have sat silent for too long is why we have what we have now.

It's about willingness to do what it takes to remain Free.

Here's hoping there's never a need to fire a shot in rebellion.

But the fact remains, that to stay Free, we must be willing to do it.

The 2nd Amendment was not written for the sake of using ink.........

Barkoff you live in a place where your freedom has been severely eroded. The gyrations you have to go through just to own a handgun prove it. You accept things and go its like giving up your lunch money to the bully at school. There is a time to stand up and punch the bully in the mouth. The bully has taken enough of our lunch money!

That hardcore Patriotism is blindly referred to as melodrama...is telling.

Reluctantly, I find myself in a position of having to support republicans - but only those dedicated to a full repeal.

They had better not think this is just about health care either.

Some of us have already responded to the call of arms in our youth, what makes anyone think that as our time grows shorter we would have less conviction. Our fathers shaped who we are,and as I was brought up, pray for peace, prepare for hell Russ

It has nothing to do with where I live, none of you are even close to picking up arms, it's all hyperbole, what good is it.

Sure I can make bold statement about freedom and the Constitution, I agree the bastard is a socialist in disguise..or at least he was in disguise during the election.

Just vote the rat bastard out, there hasn't even been another election since he took power and you all are talking like going to war is the only option left. You are all getting emotional, you are all acting like the liberals did when Bush was "destroying the country".

Most likely you'll look back at this period and time, and appreciate that Obama stripped the mask off of liberalism and created it's downfall. Relax fellas, put your guns away and talk to a young person, there's your battle.

Russ....thank you Sir.

Just this fear of armed revolt is why they must disarm us for toal control which will never happen. From our "Cold dead hands".

Doc

How in the hell can YOU speak for any of us?

You sound like a liberal talking........

I actually believe Barkoff...that if he felt what was a legitimate call to arms he would be there....and maybe he is so cynical is because he has heard this enough from fellow "2nd amendment cali's" that he doesn't believe

I stand corrected.

I'm speaking for you how?

Not to worry. I know people, patriots, with planes. Very, very fast planes. You need to be picked up, and it all came to where a gathering was necessary, Alaska is no problem. No worry about TSA either.

You said it! Some of these guys need to get back on their meds and take the Braveheart DVD out.....

There were those voicing all sides, throughout history.

Only time will tell what will, and what will not, be necessary. It always does.

And, I think time is quite short on this one.

Another BHO voter chiming in,.....?

Or just maybe a "It's cool to be blase" run of the mill Azzhole?

GTC

They can't see the forest for the trees, as already noted.........

No, I just can't see any of you doing anything but sitting here blowing wind about what you're going to do.

If and when I'm ready to pick up an arm, I'll tell you about it right before I head out the door..

Just do us one favor,....OK?

.....STAY in California! Better yet, move into East L.A.

Your gas blowin' gets as stupid as that grandstanding avatar of yours sometimes.

GTC

Grandstanding avatar? It's that same one I have had for the last five years...or do you refer to the green grouper?

I ain't the one to blow gas brother, just keeping it real.

Yeah, that stupid fish avatar.....


California stands to gain most from health bill

Victoria Colliver, Chronicle Staff Writer

Monday, March 22, 2010




D

The stakes are high for Californians when it comes to the health care overhaul, mainly because the coverage problems in this vast state are so large.

With a new UCLA study estimating that more than 8 million Californians, or nearly 25 percent of the population, lack health coverage, many health experts say California will be impacted more than other states by the reform legislation.

"When this is fully implemented in 2014 or beyond, we will see some two-thirds or more (of the uninsured) getting coverage and, with that, better access to care and more affordable coverage," said Marian Mulkey, senior program officer for the California HealthCare Foundation, an independent philanthropy group based in Oakland.

But not everyone will benefit. Medicare beneficiaries who have certain types of policies may experience disruptions and high-income earners will pay more in taxes. And California will still be left with a large number of uninsured, including illegal immigrants, who either don't qualify for the reforms or are exempted from them.

A last-minute change proposed in the health care bill would benefit Kaiser Permanente, based in Oakland, which covers more than 6 million Californians, and other large nonprofit health insurers. Under the change, tax-exempt insurers would have to pay a new fee levied on insurers, but on only half of their premiums.

With key congressional leaders supporting the plan, California played an important role in moving it forward. The state also helped reignite the stalled debate over the legislation after many of Anthem Blue Cross' 800,000 California policyholders were hit with premium increases of as high as 39 percent.
Rate, cap rules

President Obama seized on the rate increases - which affected individual policyholders who buy coverage on their own rather than receiving it through an employer - in a bid to highlight the less savory practices of the health insurance industry.

The final package does not include the president's proposal to provide federal oversight for unreasonable rate increases. But it does contain a number of changes that will affect a state like California, where the market for individual health insurance operates largely unfettered by rules.

The legislation immediately forbids insurers from placing lifetime caps on how much they will spend on their members, and it prohibits insurers from unfairly canceling coverage. In 2014, when the mandate for Americans to have insurance goes into effect, insurers will be prohibited from denying coverage to people with pre-existing medical conditions.

For Medicare beneficiaries in California, the biggest changes will likely affect those in Medicare Advantage policies. People with Medicare Advantage plans receive medical and other health benefits through private insurance, typically in the form of a managed care plan.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/03/21/MN0L1CIJ56.DTL#ixzz0j3V9byKe

Well hell man, I didn't know you were bothered so easily, would you really like me to take it down?

It's already blocked,......

GTC

Are you grateful for the American Revolution?

Do you really think it just happened overnight?

No, dumbass, it took a LOT of talking and "melodrama" over YEARS of time before enough people got the nerve up to carry it out.

I'll be the FIRST one to say that I hope it never comes to armed conflict now, as I'm right in the middle of raising a family, but if it does I'll man up and carry it out...for their sake.

But this isn't about that, or you, or me....it's about what put us here, and who.

You are either on my side, or theirs.

You are either willing, or you are not.

You are either friend, or foe.

It's THAT simple............

Then whadda you bitchin about?

Spot on.

Elections have consequences, what is coming to pass is the consequences of electing a Marxist to highest office in the land.

Well friend like I said, I'm not yet ready to panic and talk of armed revolution, I think the electorate will rise up in NOV, so I'm not sure if that makes me your friend or foe, however as for myself, I could be your friend whether I agreed with your politics or not...sorry.

The Founding Fathers saw this as a real possibility, and gave us the tools to fix it.........

Couldn't agree more.

You sound like a bunch of dorks sitting around blowing wind up each others butts...

Last election you weren't able to put together a political party that could win the presidential office. Now whats left of the party wasn't able to derail the health care bill..

But for some reason you seem to think you can just march up to capital hill and take over the world.....

After this attempt to retract the bill fails, it'll be your third strike, you guys are gonna be jumpin' outta windows and hanging yourselves...

Chill out for Christ's sake,

Have another drink and then get some rest....

After the past presidential election I am not so sure I trust the "electorate" to make rational decisions in the voting booth anymore.

See ya in November, it'll be fun.

How did I miss this [bleep] retard for so long?

You really don't see a lot of Obama's support waning?

All democrats since LBJ have been taking baby steps towards socialism, this ego maniac thought he could do anything...cat's out of the bag.

And if we don't have until November?

What if schit blows up next week, or next month?

Are you truly prepared to ignore the real possibilities and suffer the consequences of ignoring them?

The .gov does not fear us because we are silent about defending our Liberty...........

It certainly wasn't on the wane Sunday last!

Foe, no doubt.......

It is great to see so many out there determined to fight back. I was starting to wonder if our resolve for freedom was running. I see it is not and for that I am grateful!!

And waiting for his stimulus money and free health care

We're acting like the liberals did with Bush??!! No, that would be incorrect. The people here and all across the country are actually thinking they are going to have to fight to get their country back and I agree with them. The liberals, on the other hand, merely whined, complained and screeched about Bush and then voted in the absolute worst President this country has ever had. Big difference.

I say this. I hope Obama tries for amnesty, I hope he tries for cap and trade, I hope he tries to use the United Nations to curb our gun rights.

People are mortified at what they are seeing, they are regurgitating his agenda, the more he pushes for the worse the slaughter in November will be.

Sure it was. Peosi and Obama had to strong arm and bribe those who can see the writing on the wall.

Then why didn't any R's fold?

And so far that is all I am seeing, big talk.

When the Dems loose in November then what for the Manchurian Muslim? It could get much worse with a lame duck session and what if he become a martyr?

[bleep] off!

The R's..Republicans? Because they were voting their beliefs, for one, and Obama, Rhamm and democratic leadership had nothing to threaten them with.

No schit king dork of the evening, and by the way, your voice isn't heard because your numbers have dwindled. It's how it works in this country, gotta have the majority on your side.

As long as I am wasting breath, who came up with the great idea to split the Republican party and form the additional Tea party? That will help build a voting majority....What are you guys thinking?

Naw, I'll bet you a box of bullets right now. If the GOP has a landslide in NOV, his survival instincts will take over, he'll deal to save his ass..Don't forget Clinton shot down welfare reform a few times until the '94 slaughter, then he picked up his pen.

He'll panic, he'll make some concessions to save his egomaniac ass...or try anyway.

BS- majority is NOT needed. You obviously have a barely tenuous connection to history.

Oh man, you have been watching MSNBC, haven't you..you still think you have the numbers? It's coming, and it's gonna hurt.

Spark off Sparky

excellent post my friend


I'd rather die in the company of a few good men, whether their count be 10, 100 or 10,000

than be subjected to the life of a serf


you folks who's blood runs red, white and blue are the biggest attraction for me to this place.

long live freedom,


though she certainly appears to be on life support

Hopefully we are like fighter that fights his best when he is a little hurt. We better go after it while we can because the upcoming generation is just content to play video games.

She just got a kick in the can to rile her up, she's a long way from dead!

Bark, I'll let the politicos be politicos....I'm simply not wired for it.

I'm more of a you [bleep] me too bad and I'll shoot your silly ass sort.....

Thinking here, between the two of us, is merely a lack of communication....mebbe.

Ironic that you and several others see this as a call for angry mobs to rush Washington with arms in hand....the forest for the trees thing.

No, Barkoff, waiting for November might just not happen in time.

What needs to happen is entire state governments to stand up NOW to the federal government and say hell no, and back it up with the promise of force drawn from it's citizenry and National Guard, and Air National Guard.

It's called having balls........

If we as a Free People truly control our government then our State leadership will do our bidding. The initial phases have already happened today with the law suits filed. It is up to us to drive the momentum. And we do that here, now, with "melodrama".

For us to continue to do nothing now, to just wait and see, is to continue to fail...........

Blow me........

Well I wish you luck, but I don't see us "doing nothing". Obama's numbers are tanking for a reason.

And this okie would be proud to stand with you....

Democrats and Republicans? I think what we really have are republicrats. Niether give a chit about any of us. America is the elk..the politicians and their financial backers are the wolves..the news media are the coyotes.We are the birds that fly around the whole mess looking for scraps. If armed conflict came to our current population the horrors would be unimaginable. More would die as a result of starvation and disease than bullets. If a total breakdown/revolution occurred anyone within 300 miles of a metropolitan area would be done within 6 months. And that covers almost everyone. 95% of the people on this website couldn't make it unsupported in a wilderness area for more than 3 months.
Too many rats in the cage.The only real solution is less rats..sure hope im not here to see it when the cage gets cleaned out.Its gonna look like a big pile of rat chit.Hopefully something can be worked out for the kids sake.How i really have no idea.

Yep, and there's nothing wrong with pushing them right off the damn cliff..........

Agreed

"Yep, and there's nothing wrong with pushing them right off the damn cliff.........."

.....gimme a day or two, I'll try and line up some Dozers.

GTC

Best case scenerio and Nov is a landslide with decent folks winning the leash will need to be kept short on Washington. The movement for stronger states will need to continue and it will need to be preached loudly that freedom is not safe.

Worse case... well we are prepping for that aren't we?

So,....

does taking back our country mean voting Republicans back into office?


I'd join the fight if the motives weren't partisan flavored but I know better. What's going to happen is a the GOP will ride back into control on a wave of citizen anger and they'll do the same schitt they've done for the past 20 years, - act like Dems.

Not exactly, they'll cater to big buisness, do jack on health care and refuse once again to tackle the border. I keep hoping they'll think about listening to middle America...we know the democrats never will.

All you ninnies who can't see past voting for politicians to fix the politicians need to [bleep] realize that what's needed is to burn the damn house down and build a new one.

This one has a cracked foundation, bad wiring, bugs in the woodwork, the roof is blown off, and the plumbing leaks at every joint........

Oh Joe what I'm going to let you do to me!

Agreed!!! But you have to admit there are still too many of "us" who think the repubs will save them...Those who believe repubs are the "Batman" to the dems "Joker"...where it is really the "riddler" to the "joker"

Re; that pic:

They're saying that Biden ushered in this momentous and epochal moment in human history with some foul language.

Another cheap back room deal,....ony bigger, and with a cast of thousands,......chuckle.

This whole debacle is coming apart the day after they signed it, 'twould seem.

GTC

Good point.

Well, this is where I'm at,......in about 22 hours I'll be able to ask J.D. Hayworth why we should even DREAM about trusting him to not do EXACTLY what you've just illustrated.

I hate politics, ....but it's damn sure time to show some real interest.

Chit,....the coming Sat. is visitin' Tancredo and co.

GTC

Tancredo.. listened to him a lot on local radio. Don't always agree with him but do like the man.

BTT

It would appear that many here are anti-democracy, with Wildswalker lead dog in the pack. Not pretty, gentlemen, to be blunt.

In your passion, you have also forgotten that freedom is a sword with two edges. It's a fire that lights the night, but burns you if you try to hold it.

It's a rose, but you'd better not pick it.

Free people in a free society voted for this government. We'll vote the bastids out if and as necessary. Just like we did in '08.

Horned-up right wing nutjobs are the biggest threat to freedom that currently exists in this country. Look at y'all. Ready to start shooting people because you didn't get your way in an election. Boo [bleep] hoo.

Buck up, troopers.

Over/Under...another 8 pages?

You really are full of yourself too, tonight /

ALL,....we KNOW who, and what this "JO" excresance is, and what he represents....

an "Agent Provacateur"

trying to get some inside skinny.

Wonder who the little sorry plick rides for, anyhoo ?

Time to walk away from this one,

DFTFT

GTC

Listen to the little commie rant. How are those house sales going Einstein?

Jeff with all due respect you owe every damn bit of the freedom that you and every other person in this country enjoy to a bunch of "horned up right wing nutjobs" that were willing to shoot people and die for what they believed in.

Hope you feel proud knowing that you will be hiding in your house while good men are out fighting for you.

I'm so [bleep] tired of liberals.

Right when things were about to settle down, in walks the outlaw Josey Wales...heeeeeeeeer we go.

Yeah, me to. I'd much rather talk about camping, hunting and fishing but there's just something that draws me in when I see a political debate.

Worst part is I know how pointless it is. Unless people are hungry or have to go without cable tv, we'll continue down this long sorry road of voting in crooked, inept lawmakers because the other team might be a tad worse(and I mean a tad).


Maybe one of these days I wise up but I doubt it.

Horned-up nutjob is, as horned-up nutjob does.

These guys are talking about doing.

Barkoff was right 8 pages ago. Drama.

Looking in the mirror you're the one that should know about Drama Queens. Got your lipstick on straight?

The REALLY "Nice" thing about the "Left Coast" is that it's going to be SO easy to keep all those weirdos confined over there when this little stunt of theirs blows up in their faces. ( how's that for right wing aggression JblOw? )

Pelosi and "Ahnuld" will be long gone to Austria / Switz.

There they'll be (JblOw and friends),....getting cut up by Aztec re-enactors and eaten by hungry Manson Family types.

Those Mountain ranges make a great fence,....what?

GTC

How about we address the first thing I typed. The one about that little detail called democracy.

That just might go completely SOUTH in a REPUBLIC.

....moron.

GTC

It's called a Representative Republic and your little Marxists are governing against the will of the people.

democracy is electing people to office and then those elected people represent the people that elected them they are supposed to listen to the people and make policy accordingly they do not know what is best for you jeff.

...and sure as hell they have lost sight of that concept.

But if he admits that he has to come out of denial. LOL.

+1

rest is jest sorry assed comentary

real red assed fiscal conservative, and social liberterian

Charlie

Actually,....and for the record this is a PERFECT "Legacy Quote" for a soon to be extinct (politically anyhoo) and mouthy segment of our American Public.

You've done REALLY well here tonight, JeffO.

None of our resident "Right wing" types ( of which I'm proud to claim a passing respect and affection for)

could have done a BETTER job of making your position crystal clear.

I guess we'll be seeing you at the Texas Pig Hunt ?

....fat chance.

What pisses me off is that most of them know it, but would prefer to play Clintonesque word games in an attempt to massage the obvious.

Hey,...[bleep] you and your "Red" horse too.

GTC

More commentary form the peanut gallery of the Blue state of orygun.

I know we aren't a pure democracy (at least not on a national level). But we are, fundamentally, a democracy.

You are "FUNDAMENTALLY" ......chum for the Aztecs that you've encouraged,....and "Fodder" for the Manson types that your LAME and BROKEN correctional systems are unleashing on you fine Left Coasters as I peck.

I guess if they get to your "Fundament" first ( before dismembering and stewing you)....you'll also be some sorta' sex object.

HERE,...and for all time, at this fire,.....you'll be remembered as "JO the mouthy troll".

Quite a legacy,....but I'd have not expected any less.

GTC

I'm speaking truth, crossfire.

Sorry if that hurts.

okay...gotta reply.... [bleep] you bluster buss

g'night

Charlie

Everyone here knows that is total libtard BS. America has always been a Republic.

But nice try Ace hole.

A TURD is truth, in terms of natural health,

Diahrea is just drizzling chits,......you define that.

you're History here,.....and few will forget your posts of this night.

GTC

Ya'll couldn't even get an original name for yer' river,....

hadda STEAL one like.....?

Sounds like a gutter.

GTC

I'll have to agree they belong to the cult of turd polishers.

Hey, I'm as ready to defend this country against tyranny as the next guy. But Obama ain't it.

Tyranny is the erosion of the 1st and 4th- something the RWNJ's typically cheer.

Increasing how socialized something is, something that's already [bleep] halfway socialized, isn't tyranny.

JUST THINK what you'd be saying if a bunch of leftists were talking about marching armed on Washington when Bush was pulling his crap.

Drama.

Ahhh, so THIS is why you guys wanted me to rename my earlier thread "Jeff O" I get it now.

Polishin that turd pretty good boss!

Hey,.......defeat is forever,

you've just assumed the fruits of a "Phyric" victory,

do us a favor, and [bleep] off now.

GTC

We are a democracy, fundamentally. A direct democracy all the way up to the state level. We even vote for national representatives (congresscritters and senators) by direct vote. In fact, it's only for president and things like constitutional amendments that we differ from that.

Nice try back atcha.

14000+ plus post in five years , 2800 posts per anum and you talk of diaherra....?????

[bleep] you

repectfully,

Charlie

You just never leave that lefty line they got you right by the short hair.

But seriously how are those house sales going? LOL

Jeff O,

Sarah Palin is smarter than you.

So you and JO caught the gay with one another,....or just working up to it ?

No one's gonna "Tell", moron.

GTC

Sure a good hatch of lefties tonight,....God, I can't remember em' swarming like this ,.....ever before.

....don't get any on ya'

GTC

Must be a sign spring is coming. But maybe they just got each other all horned up as jeef would put it.

Funny,....for a WHILE,

intriguing to contemplate that the "Jos" are setting "Property Values" in "Their Districts" and that Fannie Gazzoo, and Freddie Blows are actually ASSIGNING these values,......?
Curious, I have a "Freddy" property next door,.....a DUMP, ....and one of these property pimps ( he could be JOs Bro) is calling it out as a mansion.

HMmmmmm, ....I dislike this awhole even more now.

"He who drives property tax upward, in his own interest"

That's Un-American too.

GTC

laffin', careful ya don't get sum on yerself............

Charlie

Who is this INSECT, ....questioning the rational and natural aspect of a well formed TURD?

A "Drizzler" methinks, or at best, ....a "FLOP".

ROTFLMAO here,

Turds ring, Charlie,

GTC

You just have no sense of humor Bob.

"Hey, I'm as ready to defend this country against tyranny as the next guy. But Obama ain't it. "

Can you BELIEVE the NERVE, .......

I know,....let's run JO as the next Capo ,....

GTC

We're I you, I guess I'd call for help too, but I ain't you...

Charlie

You've at least got that straight.

Lucky me.

GTC

You got that right Bob just has this all wrong. But then we knew that.

Likewise
Actually have to work in the AM.... plz don't do the oldman1942 thing er' not.

Whatever....

Charlie

PS ever sign your name?

"pussie!" Nuff said.

What's your point Bob?

It's just a defining moment when a PROPERTY PIMP can muster up the balls to state,

".....We are a democracy, fundamentally. A direct democracy all the way up to the state level. We even vote for national representatives (congresscritters and senators) by direct vote. In fact, it's only for president and things like constitutional amendments that we differ from that."

Someone who's WAVED his choice of candidates in our face like his dirty diaper, now holding Civics lessons.

How Bizarre.

I'd say he lost whatever battle he's been trying to fight, with that.

Call it a "Time and Place" kinda' thing, nobody's ever accused him of good judgment.



GTC

"plz don't do the oldman1942 thing er' not.

Whatever...."

"Whatever",....

That's classic Left Coast Blither, "Whatever".....I think they're fixin' to put it in a DICTIONARY,....

Used when the cumulative effect of drugs and bad food prevent focused articulation.

As in :

"Hey, Man,...Whatever "

really scathing, and ascerbic,....what?

GTC

A "property pimp"? [bleep] you.

Did you know I worked all through high school, starting at age 14, in a truck stop fixing tires taller than you are? That I would take the service truck out in the middle of the night to fix them wherever? That I worked in machine shops every summer of college running everything from cutoff saws to mills and lathes?

Did you know i started working full time as a technical writer at an aircraft company while still in my senior year of college? That the next five years were a blur of 60-100 hour weeks, culminating in spending an entire summer on tour with that aircraft, flying above the major US cities, running the fiber-optic based nightsign that I helped design, prototype, and build? That I lived on PB & J and apples to save every penny of my per diem the whole time?

Did you know I came back from that with about $15k from the summer, and used it to begin construction- ME constructing- the building for my studio business on the 16 acres of back woods we bought in '91? Did you even know that I also run my own intensive client-based business, still, housed in that 1000 ft/2 building that I built with my own two hands to include the perimeter foundation, which I equipped with about $80,000 worth of equipment that YOU couldn't run, pulling myself up by the bootstraps, rolling profits back in, driving cheap cars, obsessing over details you wouldn't even hear, in order to best serve my beloved clients?

Did you know I worked two jobs for over a decade, sometimes putting in insane hours, so that my wife could be home with our kids? The woman I've been with since 1988 through thick and thin?

"Property pimp"? [bleep] you, idiot. You don't know chit. I bust my ass in a contingency-based industry to do the right thing for my people. I don't pimp a thing. I am a deal broker, using my hard-won skills as a facilitator and negotiator to help my clients through what can be a difficult time.

You are what Barkoff said, oops. A loudmouth blowing hot air. I'll add "drunken" in there. You don't believe in freedom. You are a 2-yr old throwing a tantrum because you didn't get your way.

Well guess what. It's a democracy. It's not your way or the highway. You aren't [bleep] right about [bleep] everything, and everyone who disagrees with you ain't an idiot.

Here that whoosh? That was that last bit going right over your alchohol addled head.

But Bob probably won't like that its hitting too close to home.

Say Jeef how is the democratic fix for the housing market treating you big guy?

Why don't we just shorten it to PIMP , than,....you've been playing the part in front of quite an audience here,....for quite a while.

Really sorry about your main Whore coming down with an incurable social disease (Impeachment), ....PIMP

by all means, though,....continue to explain what a hero you are.

Thanks all to hell for the "Carrie Nation" bit to.

Lame, ...and totally lost, and whiny.

.....man, is THIS thread a keeeper, or what?

GTC

You, busting balls, over "focused articulation".

You just can't make this stuff up....

Hey,....phug off, Right whacker,....

"Did you know"

Wait,....don't phug off, til' I get this straight.

"Did you know, Sir, that "Did you Know " was just used more times than what we've ever seen before here,....by a property pimp supported by the Fanny ?

Well,....I'm all "Drunk" and addled so I can't type slurring into this riot.

It IS a riot,......the melt down begins,.....Pimps with sick whores,...trying to purvey legitimacy, and the health of their wares.

I gotta' go count "Did you Knows",...like I gave a chit.....

GTC

Who are YOU pimping?

What'd you do for a living, hero? Do tell.

I'm no hero. Just someone who has worked hard, done the right thing by my family, and believes in freedom and democracy. And ain't buying that it's time to talk about shooting people because a politician made an already-socialized situation a little more so.

Jesus, you are an idiot, oops.

Making chit up is YOUR dept.

GTC

What did you do for a living, oops?

"What'd you do for a living, hero? Do tell"

I don't wave my political views in front of folks who don't have common ground with me,....like you do.

For bucks,......?

I mostly roll PIMPS, and leave them bleeding.

GTC

It sucks, but if you think the current economic [bleep] is the Dem's fault, you are only half right at best.

"I am a deal broker, using my hard-won skills as a facilitator and negotiator"

I've heard that before, somewhere,......

I get it,.....YOU are a Community Organizer !

That's what you've been working so hard here about.

Hmmmmm,...."I think you picked the wrong "community" there, Pimp.

GTC

Ran computing operations, Pipe lines did a little selling. Made they right moves and now I'm not busting my ass or wondering where my next dollars is coming from like you.

Oh but you have an excuse you're an Obama man LOL. Even though his kind sold you out.

What did, or do, you do for a living?

Got a feeling there's a reason YOU won't tell. Coward. I did, and every word I typed is true, though I forgot the part about the patent...

Time to man up, oops. Spill it. I'm guessing you sucked government tit.

"You don't believe in freedom. You are a 2-yr old throwing a tantrum because you didn't get your way. "

I just wish we could superimpose that "speaking to a 4 year old" cadence to THIS !

We've seen Hillary Clinton do it,.....like she's talking to slow children.

How TELLING,.... andc it's so fargin' typical of these Leftist Idealogues.

No idea how it's written, in their handbook,.....so let's just call it "Talking down"

I hope he'll (JO) keep going,.....this is some GOOD training, in terms of just how these morons think.

...or think they're thinking,....

"Did you know ",......wow

GTC

I wasn't asking you, but thanks, and good for you. You've always seemed like a pretty solid guy. If a pain in the ass.

FWIW, I don't like the housing tax credit.

LOL but you voted for it in November of 08. You didn't think that was a barbless hook they stuck in your ass?

What did you do for a living, crossfire?

"I'm guessing you sucked government tit."

....that right there is funny,....you need to to this out to a few members of this assembly,what know me....let them answer, Pimp.

I did not come looking for you tonight,....you brought it here.

Now you are associated with REAL Treason, and want to write resumes ?

I'm rather gratified that you use the past tense to describe livlihoods,......

See, I'm still REAL active in what I do ( and it ain't a Gov. "Tit")

....while YOU are clearly going "T$ts Up"

How poetic.

GTC

I think that 8mm maggie has rattled your noggin. You should use a safe-n-sane .325 instead. Same damn thing.

I didn't vote FOR him. I voted against a Repub party that was [bleep] up big time and a candidate that was flailing.

So what do you DO, you obtuse dork?

You broached this subject, I manned up, it's your turn little man.

I didn't vote FOR him. I voted against a Repub party that was [bleep] up big time and a candidate that was flailing.

Lie to yourself,....not to this large an assembly.

You've been waving your vote around like a dirty diaper,.....and anyone here will tell you that.

Quit snivelling.

GTC

By the way, "tits up"?

You want to compare net worth?

What do you do, oops? Coward.

If I had to draw off my memories and impressions, you are a mechanic. Yes?

You know,....your distress is so patently obvious (and will be RIGHT THERE to those opening this shortly as AM comes to the East)

I'm going to park it.

Dealing with treacherous Leftist Scum has actually been part of my life experience,.....as has been writing about a whole variety of subjects involving the REAL World.

I'm not a "Big" man,....But neither am I small (little?)

Your situation here is not frought with the pathos of, let's say ,....the sinking of a great ship.

It's more like a sewer barge foundering in a swamp.

Night now, O voter.

GTC

Yup, among a lot of other things

....net worth ?

Push that,....push that REALLY hard, in coming days.

....and you are WHAT,....an ELITE COMMISSAR ?!

"You want to compare net worth?"

That mouth of yours gonna see you strung up, somewhen, by folks you talked down too, JO.

I'd call it damn near inevitable.

GTC

Bring it.

I am armed and ready to defend my rights and freedoms as a human and American, against people just like you should it come to that.

This is America, land of the free, and I am a free man, and I'll do my part to keep it that way by force as necessary, and against people just like you as necessary, in defense of freedom and democracy.

That SHOULD mean we are allies, but since you don't seem to believe in democracy and your sort don't believe in personal responsibility nor freedom....... I guess it don't.

Notably, you chickened out about copping to your resume. Bwa ha [bleep] HA. I'm for thinking it's because you got stuff that, shall we say, will be a bit compromising. No? Prove it. Or shut you stinking pie-hole about what I have done for a living, because all I've done is play it square and true and work hard, with both my hands and my mind.

Bok bok bok...

Suits you there, Pimp, your very own tune, what?

Pues, Ya entonces,....nos vemos por la manana,....

Sad night in BHO voting land, it would seem,.....

GTC

"You want to compare net worth?"

HEyyyyyy, Blood, you gwine be flashing BLING ?

Wow,....he REALLY acts like a pimp, No ?

GTC

You are the one who brought up employment, and who weenie-wagged about who's t!ts-up...

You're an idiot, or at least acting like one, and this isn't worth the minimal effort it takes.

You may be WAY up there in "Net Worth", Property Pimp,

....you're still T$ts Up, in a larger sense (the one that counts).

that's been pretty evident through all of your postings this fine evening.

Nos vemos.

GTC

Some of us know what Crossfire does for a living and don't care one way or the other what his net worth is, or what yours is, for that matter. Suffice to say he is not an Obama-voting real estate broker from Oregon. Some of us don't post our resume because this isn't Jobdango. I've got to say yours is really impressive Jeff. I'll also say that you wouldn't last five minutes in some of the hard places that I've been.

Get all indignant, then realize that many of us started working YEARS before that. Hell I, like many, was in the fields before I was in school.



Great, I worked full-time in a warehouse so I didn't have to leech money off ANYBODY to put myself through. Paid for a portion of my (now) wife's education too. That writer's cramp must have been tough on ya.



The day is coming when "our" way will be the way. I'm doubting "we" will see your type on that road, though.

George

Facts, clearly state otherwise.

I can't help but notice the geography of the folks who have a problem with the original post. A magnificent post BTW Roy...

My regards to Salmonella...

Telling, what?



Well, to most, anyway.

As for JeffObama, let it go with him.

He, and those like him, aren't worth it, though (as this and MANY other threads illustrate, to them it ALWAYS has to be about them).

Their pathological in their own self-deceit, convinced of their own self-worth, and their self-congratulatory patterns of having not made a mistake that they'd admit to.

The Left Coast, will go as it does, thanks in large part to those like him.

Good riddance, should and when it comes to pass, as their belief in freedom and what it means is so fundamentally different from what is believed by the rest of us to not be recognizable as within the same language.

Funny stuff, this thing called irony.

When young and idealistic I swore and oath to defend against all enemies etc...I had much to live for then. Oath never rescinded, now the government that administered the directive seeks to be a target of so many like me, as if it is a living entity with a death wish.

Call us patriots? Or are we once simple folks who took the oath sincerely and believe in the spirit and simple letters of the Constitution. The authors would look at our precarious position today with incredulous anger. Paul Revere would ride.

Older now, I have little to lose and a lot better perspective upon who is and is not my enemy. In fact, I have nothing to lose, for in time I will die regardless. What will my legacy be?

You are no American Jeff. You contradict yourself constantly through your musings here and those writings prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the dollars spent on your education were wasted. Folks like you deserve a democracy. True democracy's don't work.

You probably still have all your scopes mounted in a FUBAR manner....

Pretty elitist statement there azzhole. Look at my website, I'm pretty satisfied and proud of my profession, and I'm not a paper whore that society won't miss.........

Anti-Democracy? Maybe more like.........

And, yes, you [bleep] plant, there is a REASON for that bill and for the new one just introduced in the Senate today.

Hint: it's ALL about .gov retaining control at any/all costs.

Good to kow you think the FF were horned up nutjobs. Explains alot about you.

An excellent post and I agree entirely. I see everyone who still supports Obama as the enemy. Sadly, many mental lightweights were fooled by the state run media. I believe many of them have seen the error of their ways and can be forgiven. But those groups still financing and supporting the taking of our freedoms will always be the enemy. It is sad that we have become so divided. Separate peoples sharing the same geography, one loving freedom another accepting tyranny and a vast group in the middle with their heads in the sand.

Count me with the patriots.

Hey now I am on the left coast and have nothing against it. who you talking about

He worked for a living.

Real work, too.

And as far as little, he's way, WAY bigger on the inside than he could ever be on the outside.
That took work, too.

excellent post Wildswalker

However I do have a point, that I think needs to be made..

In honor of the great Patrick Henry 235 years ago today, give me Liberty, or by God as my witness, give me death...........

I'd like to bring forth another quote from a later period..

No S.O.B. ever did anything dying for his country, you do something for your country, by making the other poor dumb S.O.B. dying for his!

or something to that effect, but we all get George S Patton's point.

Anyone who supports Obama now, is not an American. They are a traitor to this country, because this country was not made to be a communist or socialist country.

Obama is a traitor.
Pelosi is a traitor.
Reid is a traitor.

and every other democrat who follows these traitors are also traitors...

and each one deserves to be treated like a traitor..

and they deserve a traitor's demise..

Is this an aristocracy sort of thing?

The greater your net worth, the greater weight your opinion should have?

its pretty simple.. If you love your country, Obama and his crowd are doing everything they can to undermine it and undermine its citizen's well being.

Supporting him is pissing on this country.

and those who do, should be treated as such...

traitors, plain pure and simple..

as an east coast raised southerner,

I can tell you folks...

LA, San Fran, Portland and Seattle do NOT make up the entire west coast.

They are island of insanity with a big mouth that make it sound bigger than they are.

When push comes to shove, there is a big difference between having 52% of the voting power and big mouths, and the 48% that will stand up and defend this country, and what it was founded upon.

Not everyone out here, has a ponytail, a tyedye T shirt, wears Birkenstocks and smokes 'medical' marijuana all damn day.

It would appear there is a cultural and philosophical disconnect between a great many folks here in the US and some here at the Campfire. Old saw oft heard in the Zones of history says,

"For those who have fought for it, Freedom has a taste the protected will never know."

Part of the disconnect comes from a lack of empathy, or that understanding that once anointed, the Warriors are unlikely to shrink from their oath or responsibility. They number in the millions and stretch through generations. They know enough about conflict to avoid it if possible, yet if pressed they will stand up to be counted. They know things the protected do not know in context of experience, not in the abstract. They are a presence to be taken seriously rather than insulted and belittled. Above all, their priorities have been forged in Hell and are unlikely to bend much.

If one is inclined to use a position of power to reorder our government and society, one would do well to consider these things in depth.

We know things you may not know and are not unwilling to use our education to defend this land. We know death, life and the netherworld in between. We read, we think, and we are no so naive as many appear to believe. Ignore that at your peril.

Very well put Seafire, thank you for posting this.

GTC

great post DD


and take hope my campfire friends, there's many that don't even know that the 24campfire exists that share your sentiments.

I've always been thankful for men or women that died for our freedoms, I'm even more thankful there's more than a handful of them left.

Roy, just caught this thread and am glad I did. Excellent post, sir, as that expresses my sentiments as well as those of many I am close with, to a T!

Uh, no, I did not know that. Seldom agree with your view points, but do agree some around here have no manners of any kind.

Oh my, did I miss that in the forum rules..."only the like minded may post on the Campfire"? I saw something similar on the Huffington Post once, they quoted it as reason of expulsion from the site.

Well done----

Send that to some place where it'll receive airtime. Guys like Beck and Sheppard eat this stuff up. They'll use it.

Tyranny may also assume the form of a Tyranny of Law. In the minds(mindless?) of some, it lends them legitimacy. Power has become the end in and of itself. If it begins, then at least I am still somewhat young enuff to be a major annoyance.

Well here is the way I see it. All of you who want to pick up arms at this point, do so, even though most of the country will see you as nut jobs, I won't, I'll understand your the train of thought.

My belief is that you guys are just spouting frustration and are no more apt to pick up arms in the near future than I am.

You try to make the point that those who are not yet ready to fire on other Americans would not be ready to fire to protect America, that is neither fair or reasonable.

I think most of you are rational, why even talk of picking up arms when there are still so many avenues of change to travel, without killing other Americans or speaking of such?

At this point it is nothing but tough talk, none of you are close to killing. If it make you all feel better to spout off about going to war, have at it, but most of us know you ain't shooting nobody in the near future.

You illustrate my point perfectly sir.

Come on Jeff, just admit you were and idiot and voted for the annointed one. If you were so disappointed in the repubs. why not vote third party? You claim your vote was against the republicans and not for Obama. Whatever makes you sleep at night.

Do tell Jeffy, just what part of the democratic process you are touting played any part in the vote on Sunday? Backroom deals are the norm now, and unfortunatley, unless things turn around, it will continue to be the norm.

If this is such a "democracy" why did the bittch asss dems not listen to the will of the people? That's the point of contention here. These azzholes voted against the wants of the majority of the country. That you don't see that explains more about you then anything about the "right wing kooks" you're blathering about.


Clyde

This must be what is refered to in "The Pledge of Alligiance" that we have all taken about "one nation" and "indivisable".

As in agreement, or example of, because you still aren't going to shoot anyone.

I have always done what needed doing when the occasion arouse, I will continue doing so, up to and including violence, till the day I die. I do not hunt trouble nor do I run from it. I been to the circus and seen the elephant.

As to the BS of net worth, that is what it is, BS. I count my wealth in family and friends, not dollars & cents. Money is convenient & yes, useful, but there are many more important things in this life.

I would rather live off the lands in the woods surrounded by family & a few good friends than live in the biggest Mac Mansion alone. With all the toys money can buy.

I have no problem with that Tlee, but could you shoot a liberal tomorrow because of how he voted today?

I told somebody just the other day that this country is inching closer to another civil war, but I'm not sure if it could really happen again.

I would suspect it would come when a State refuses to comply with the Federal government, but I doubt we would ever see the feds use the military against a state, rather opting to cut funding.

I'm not sure what most of you advocate for or threaten, defending your state from federal force, or the assassination of liberals.

I could care less about a person's net worth. I only brought it up for the one, single reason that oops said I was going tit$ up. In that context, I'll put my balance sheet against his; I've played my life very conservatively and don't carry debt, paid my property off early, didn't touch the equity when half of America was going apesh!t, etc. I'm sure many here, did likewise. I am not a wealthy person and likely never will be; in fact I've been dirt poor for significant parts of my adult life (see: wife not working to be a mom to our kids).

Here's the problem I have with Wildswalkers absurdly self-worshipping post and much that followed. It's a call to terrorism, pure and simple. Through the democratic process, representatives have been elected in a certain proportion of R to D. As it happens, the D's hold the reins for the moment. This is the will of the people. . This is freedom, this is democracy.

Shooting fellow citizens because you don't agree with them is un-American (to say the least). Calling for an organized shooting of fellow citizens for political purposes is terrorism. Pure and simple.

If the R's were in power, and leftists were threatening to kill people and blow stuff up, what would you call them? Hell, what DID you call them? I've seen it right here. You call them terrorists.

Barkoff nailed it 12 pages ago. Buncha drama, and Wildswalker is the lead queen, intoning in his quasi-colonial tones.

The same was said prior to the civil war that no one could shoot a fellow American, but brothers shot brothers, fathers shot sons and sons shot fathers. Well said wildswalker!

wow.

It's the will of the people to vote, and then let things run their course, and to let people that they voted for (or not) simply ignore them until the next election?

wow.

TLee, have you seen how I live? Hint: it's very close to this:

"I would rather live off the lands in the woods surrounded by family & a few good friends"

and very FAR from this:

" than live in the biggest Mac Mansion alone. With all the toys money can buy."

Furthermore, the people with the toys and McMansions actually often have little, or even negative, net worth.

Real estate pimp....laffin

You have to admit, that was classic...

The will of the people is that the D's get a chance to strut their stuff, because the R's showed themselves to be such idiots.

Don't worry, the D's are showing THEMSELVES to be idiots; the R's will get their chance to be idiots again soon enough.

I fear both, and I'd shoot a [bleep] left-wing nutjob in the face and bury him in the dirt just as fast as I'd shoot a right-wing nutjob in the face and stick him in the ground, if EITHER was engaging in physical violence against me. But the truth is, it ain't the leftist that are here yapping their mouths about killing people, it's the right, do I'm calling THEM the idiots they are, for acting this way.

For you, TLee. This is how I roll.

What, you aint gonna tell us what gun/bullet you will be using?

Guess I left off my "resume" that I live in the woods, have for 20 years, heat the house (called a "funky cabin" in the real estate ad when we bought it), solely with wood that I cut, buck, and split every year (4-5 cords), own nothing but 4wd's, built that barn in addition to the shed and my studio, etc.

I'm not preaching the values that lead towards McMansions. To the contrary.

That will have to be answered when the time comes, I do not make threats or thump my chest. I will do whatever is needed when the time comes. If I need to shoot I will, if other means will work I will use them. But I am willing to do whatever is necessary to maintain American Freedom & Liberty.

I kind of like Accubonds, and a 30-06 is NEVER a mistake.

Including, if this thread is to be believed, the imposition by force of a right-wing tyranny.

Peachy.

Your gonna need a solid for the lefties...they are kinda thick, and the righties will have on body armour, lol.

Try to follow this, numbnuts..........

This is a republic as per the constitution, not a democracy. It has become a socialist, corrupt democracy, that's the whole issue here.........

Obama Voter.....he who can't see the forest for the trees.

You can convince yourself, and your family and your friends, and you can swear up and damn down, from the highest horse that 3 + 3 = 9.

You can write a book about it, you could produce a television documentary about it, you could get the entire educational system rewritten to say 3 + 3 = 9.

You could even get Congress to pass a law demanding it so....

But in the end, Obama Voter, you will still be dead ass wrong...........

funny thread. kudos to crossfire for getting drunk and posting.

The only thing I have to say is this country is more divided than ever and it is because of the way that the Democrats have chosen to dictate. So I hope the Democrats can handle it when their futures are dicated by someone else.

Par for the course...

That you call it terrorism speaks volumes about your character. I'm sure, at the time, you would have labeled our FF's as terrorists as well. When our Country reaches a point where it's no longer America, it isn't "terrorism" when you return to what was.



Nobody is calling for that. What we as men are discussing is a call to arms when the very foundation of our nation is at stake. I'm not surprised that you don't get the concept.



That you would call anyone a "queen" is laughable, to imply that WW is such is pathetic. I know who/where I will stand when the time comes. You be a good sheep and be part of the 2/3 group.......

George

Great post George!

Will anyone admit they were an idiot for voting for Bush Jr?


I doubt it. It's ok if Bush gave us a $700 Billion gorilla health care plan that rivals Obama's or that our National Debt doubled under his watch or that we had the largest expansion of Federal govt since FDR while he was president.


But as soon as a Dem does the same thing,...well NOW we're going to express our outrage.

The hypocrisy knows no bounds.



If Republicans spent more time righting their own ship rather than pissing and moaning about what the libs are doing, it's doubtful the libs would ever be in a position of power. What we've become is a country that votes against the other side and I think we've all seen that ain't getting us nowhere.

Thank you sir.

Even us JBTs can be articulate when needed .

George

Pretty sure the R's aren't shy about "dictating" when they've got the reins....

Tormenting the irrational again I see.

Plus one.

This bunch has abandon their ship and don't have a clue as to what to do next...

They act as if stirring the pot with a rifle will make them seem to appear manly. In reality they still come off as disgruntled republican cry babies.

The position that is been taken here puts many of you in alignment with the more popular anti American terrorist of the world today....

Patriotic Americans you're not.....

lol


I do take pleasure in it.

I can't be sorry for voting in something that i believed in. I would however hang my head in shame if I voted for something that I knew was f'ed up from the start just to prove a point.

Uh oh...
Are we going from 'post your load' to 'post your resume?'

I will try to speak sensibly to you here Jeff. You are missing some major points. I can't speak for anybody but myself, but my great suspicion is, many people here feel this way, whether they are putting it in words or not. The Democratic process of which you speak has been co-opted and perverted. When somebody says you owe "X" amount because those YOU elected have indebted you to that tune and you are OWNED by the Chinese, you can't tell me with a straight face that you just smile and say "sure". Most of us get riled up royally because we didn't sign on for that, regardless of our so-called political process. That is but one glaringly simple example. Another that you're fond of touting is McCain and the diluted process that allowed such a total assclown to be foisted upon the Republican majority in the first place. You have entities such as ACORN perverting actual elections. You have both sides cheating their asses off and seldom getting caught. You have the narcotraficantes mexicanos practically owning the border and increasingly looking to own politicians at the uppermost levels in our government. These are elements which haven't been legislated away nor taken care of by the courts. Whether they could be or not becomes of no moment when they aren't. When you are a politician duly-elected and sworn to an oath to protect this country and its borders, then you knowingly allow illegal persons to cross that border either to provide cheap labor or to gain their support if not actual votes, what can you call it other than high treason? When you have generations of these people here voting and clamoring for what they are "entitled" to, does that somehow make them legitimate?

You can call me a racist for the last, I don't care. I am not though and my biggest beef against the Mexicanos specifically is their failure to do anything constructive about their own government over the several hundred years they've existed as a people. You bring them up here and you have their problems up here.

All that said, whether you prefer the term "democracy" or "republic" we ain't running either here. We are running some half-assed thing where corporations war with entitlements and the people who pay the freight are caught in the middle. The problem is that both parasites have almost bled the host dry.

Calling people who have bled for this country or even served it in other ways "terrorists" is playing right into the hands of those who wish to totally control the country. Your assumption that only the Right advocates violence is incredibly naive. I don't normally surf there because unless I totally mask my identity they ban folks like me. But if you surf places like the Democratic Underground, you will violence advocated daily by Leftists. That includes violence against people like President Bush or any other political figures considered "Right Wing".

No agreement. Example of the disconnect, yes.

You project your view thru rose colored glasses, assuming, or expecting the People will not do this or that. Hold that thought close, hold it tight. Trying to bend my general view to reflect your presumption of MY intent is sadly disappointing. All this time I thought you more thoughtful.

Recalling Lexington Green and the spark it ignited...a bit of blood spilled over taxation. It only takes a spark. Another Lexington Green, a Waco, a Ruby Ridge. It will not matter what the facts are, nor the cause. Only the perception will matter and it will likely not be conservative sentiments that serve the purpose.

And yet another dumbphuck has been smoked out by the man from the boondocks

Well that's the way it feels (ignored) anytime we are in opposition to whatever the govt. does, be it health care or invading Iraq or Viet Nam. It doesn't mean we are suppose to kill our own voters!

you're first

you're next

Well I think they have showed us they fear being called racist, homophobic, and chauvinistic far more than they worrying about dictating. Liberals on the other hand are free to do anything their hearts desire, free of being labeled, then become quite indignant if somebody uses the word socialism.

Wildswalker isn't a queen. He's a drama queen, or at least yesterday he was acting like one. Guessing some of that booze he likes to brag on was involved in his weepy little diatribe.

The foundation of our country is the governmental structure set up by the founders. It is working as designed; things just didn't go your way last election, so now far from being so-called "men" discussing a call to arms to protect that foundation, y'all are basically boys who didn't get what you wanted and are openly discussing terrorist act that directly attack the foundation of our country!!!!

And you a cop. For shame, sir. I mean that.

So our half-socialized healthcare system is now 3/4 socialized. Big [bleep] whoop. Wash the pee out of your shorts and carry on. Y'all had the bully pulpit for 20 of the last 28 years and it wasn't an issue that meant squat to you. So here we are, dealing with an impending disaster, and all you guys can do is pretend to be patriots while advocating terrorism.

By the way, show where it's writ that America is to be a capitalist society, anyway. Don't get me wrong; I like markets. But it isn't like capitalism is written into the constitution.

Once more for emphasis: you guys are advocating terrorism. It's un-American. The system functioned as designed.

Shake'n....

I suppose you play armchair football too....

"Anyone who supports Obama now, is not an American."

The canned response by Odouche's supporters is, "I didn't vote for him, I voted against the Republicans."

Not when the choices were Algore the inventor and John-the-traitor-Kerry.

If you could just get over this I-hate-
Bush fixation, your posts would make more sense.

This part is good:

The last election is what it is. Ditto for health care. You obviously can't/won't see the bigger picture, but that doesn't surprise me. Both are just symptoms. When the actual foundations of this nation are threatened men will act, just as they have in the past. Show me ONCE where I have openly discussed terrorist acts. Not gonna happen.



LMAO! Yeah, I'm shamed that I actually believe in the oaths I took.



Once more for emphasis: The men of this nation will follow in the footsteps of our FFs when it is called for. Label all you want and be a good sheep. Lots of colonists sat it out during that little spat as well. Gutless!

I bet you still can't point out me advocating terrorism.

George

Dammit! I hope someday I too can become a man.

That's a good post. Tip of the hat.

I'm thinking you and I are about equally disgusted with the whole state of affairs. I'm also thinking you are rational enough to agree that essentially 100% of the problems you detailed are the fault of BOTH parties. I'm gonna guess that 5 years ago, you were laying a mean rhetorical beatdown on Bush Jr.

But none of that changes the FACT that we the people installed every single person in our government. We the people can, and will, kick this batch of idiots out and install others. That's how this country works. Advocating armed violence when your side doesn't win is bush-league. It's terrorism if carried out. It's traitorous.

And for what? Because a black prez with a funny name pushed through a health care overhaul that takes an already partly-socialized system and makes it a bit more so!? Jesus wept, are these people [bleep] stupid? Where were they when politicians with an "R" in front of their name were attacking personal freedoms and gutting the 1st and 4th a few scant years ago? Huh?

I'm calling it like I see it. Wildswalker is a drama queen crying because his side lost election. Boo hoo.

Now what does black have to do with it?

It's not about the last election for me. It's also not about Ds and Rs. I have little use for most politicians as they're pretty much all cut from the same cloth.

My problem is with the general direction that we've been taking for years. I can't/won't lay all the blame at the feet of the current azzhat in the White House, but the latest piece of tinder is his to own.

Where is the line? Everybody has one and lots of folks are approaching theirs.

George

You fellas need to visit the AccurateReloading political crater for some real fireworks...

However... we are headed down the wrong road, I believe. I no longer recognize the country I grew up in during the 70s and 80s. Something is palpably different and it does not feel like a good different. People seem to be mean and small minded and most concerned with getting on tv or the internet for their fleeting moment of notoriety. Here is the standard I try to guide myself by and believe me I come up short plenty:

the finest person in my family was my mom's great grandfather. he was simply a good man. would he approve of how I comport myself? if yes, proceed. if no, re-consider and re-evaluate. he had his head on straight. simply put, a man of values.

i don't see too much of that these days when push comes to shove. perhaps that's why i find community here and on AR with many of you.

bring on november!

If or when this country is truly threatened, which I contend is MUCH more likely to come from the religious right than anywhere else but whatever, if or when that happens I am right there with you and anyone else truly fighting for freedom.

Understand, for those whho haven't drunk the cool-aid, R's are clearly NOT some sort of bastions of freedom! In fact, virtually every actual, real, tangible infringement on freedom, on the constitution, in my 44 years has come from the religious right.

So excuse me (or don't, grin) if I'm a little skeptical that a bunch of horned-up drunken yay-hoos like Wildswalker and Crossfire talking about killing people to protect freedom doesn't exactly warm my heart.

Are you kidding?

Have you not seen some of the racist bile spewed right here at this campfire?

Whatever. Different discussion. You and me need to focus on our lack of manhood, first and foremost.

You fellas need to visit the AccurateReloading political crater for some real fireworks...

I can happily say after 5 years I was banned from AR's Political Forum...I spent too much time 'upsetting' a few 'house pet' radicals, by mocking the stupid crap they posted..

I really liked AR, but after WalterHogg, that pompous Buttwipe was put in charge of the PF, that went south.. like most Anti America EuroTrash, he runs with two sets of standards...

the radical left has no rules to abide by.. the conservative right has ALL sorts of rules to abide by, even the ones that they make up as they go along, to suit their needs...

Sad to say a good forum, ruined by a schiesskopf EuroTrash bum...

We'll agree to disagree, and I'm not an overly religious person. I've shared my views on how I figure things are going to break with some on here. I'll let them say "tolja so" for me later.



I broke bread with WW and his clan and your characterization couldn't be further from the truth. I suspect I could say the same about CFO, but as I haven't actually met him I'll leave it for those who have. I'm sure he and I could sit at a table with no issues, though.

As to your last, Jefferson said it best "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

An advocate of "terrorism" if there ever was one .

George

Consider that some can see shadows and light. They are still legally blind. I don't believe that you're incapable of seeing the point, I believe that you refuse to. Hence the dislike of you by many here.

Crossfire,

no problem...

Folks on the east coast, who think that those 4 cities make up the entire west coast, are about as naive as those on the west coast who think that New York City, WAshington, Atlanta and Boston are representative of the entire EAST COAST...

and there are many parts of the nation that are stuck with those types, regardless of west coast, east coast, mid west, south, etc...

Sad fact is, the radical left ALL have big mouths and claim to represent more of the country than they actually do.

you can credit them to being politically well organized, and definitely controlling most of academia in this country...

but when push comes to shove they will find themselves being dramatically outnumbered...

and when running their big mouths, they should remember: they are anti gun, and they are anti violence...

on the other hand, we as their opponents are heavily PRO gun, and we are NOT anti violent, when our nation is pissed on enough by their types...

personally I look no difference upon a big blood stain on the ground between the remains of a ponytail and a pair of Birkenstocks, than I look at a big blood stain between the remains of a prairie dogs head and the remains of a pair of prairie dog feet...

I look at both as varmints and pests..

there is a law against me shooting one, and there isn't a law against me shooting the other....

and if there is a revolution in this nation, then all of a sudden there is no law enforceable shooting either pest..

Anything that undermines my nation is a varmint, and deserves to be treated as such... that is the way I see it..

I tried to stay out of this thread but to me this is the crux of the issue. The boondoggle that has occurred over the past 6 months was in no way, shape or form democratic or representatively selected.

Simple question: if it was the will of the people why did BO have to resort to pay-offs, arm twisting and voting mechanisms not before used for such an important piece of legislation? He didn't have the votes for "normal" passage so resorted to shenanigans to get it through. I vehemently disagree with that.

If the legislation passed as per the normal route - just like the last election - we would have nothing to say. It did not.

I am sadly dissapointed that anyone can look at the last 6 months and claim, or worse yet, feel it was "democratic". This is the crux of the issue.

Traitorous and terrorist? When your government takes your money and tells you what you must do with it replete with fines and imprisonment because constituents who contribute nothing but a vote demand it?

Funny how utterly [bleep] confused/stupid folks get when they haven't a clue WHO can be a terrorist and a traitor...



This is all bullshit coming from you.

Advocating the use of steel enforcement is always an option, so much so the government does it everyday. Yes, its necessary to have both order and the rule of law.

The rule of law goes both ways, shiddick...but you'd not know whether you were ruled or governed anyways.

Ironic when the majority of folks don't want things, yet a rep/Senator/President flips the bird and gives the "tough schit" to those who foot the bill.

You save high slander for someone who is genuinely and has every God given right to be pissed about it.

Jesus, wasted breath....

"If the R's were in power, and leftists were threatening to kill people and blow stuff up, what would you call them? Hell, what DID you call them? I've seen it right here. You call them terrorists. "

some of us wish the liberal left would pick up arms.. it would allow us to send them exactly where they deserve to be.. rotting in hell..

there is a difference in accepting "differences of opinion", and have a bunch of hypocritical loud mouths, ramming their down your throats and undermining your country in the process...just because they have convinced themselves that they are smarter than everyone else...

Congress is a sausage factory. The R's have made their share of sausage.

There's who you are associating with, NH K9. Your opinion of this is...?

Jeff,
What infringements has the religious right made on you? Is traditional marriage and no on abortion the issue?

WW is a good friend and I can assure you he is not a drama queen. He as most of us are is extremely concerned with the direction the US is jumping off in.

Wow,....why don't you just HOLD IT,....right there, and quote where I've advocated shooting anyone, you deleriously mouthy A-Whole,.....

Do so, or go drink a big steaming cup of STFU, ....

GTC

The fact that there are those so naive to believe that the 1st Amendment carries any less loss in regards to (blood, property and freedom) than the 2nd Amendment, is why dippschitts keep getting votes, we keeping losing blood, property and freedom.

Socialism always has to be (en)forced by the muzzle of a gun....

Crossfire, we are still stalled at you making fun of profession but refusing to cop to yours.

Nothing to cop to, Pimp,......

LOTS of folks here know what I do (and don't ) do,......and I'm not in some dock, with you as a prosecuting attorney,....though I think there'll be a general (majority in fact) agreement here that you and your quisling mouth / mind would JUMP at the opportunity to do just that.

Re :
"T$ts up" quote,

You misinterpret me,......you're T$ts up HERE at this site,....and by your own words,........have you READ some of the stuff you've POSTED,......?
You'll be the butt of more jokes than ever, and the focus of fear and loathing pretty much across the board, from now on.
Probably be known as something like,
"He who accuses",.....a PIMP turned quisling, with a lying pie hole.

....and no-one HERE did that to you,.....you just talked your way into that unenviable position, you elitist arrogant twerp.

GTC

You and the turd in your pocket,....what's with the "We" bit.

PLEASE quote me advocating killing someone,....Property Pimp.

Signed, "The Mechanic"

GTC

Read: waiting for the government to run outta rice......

Did you happen to notice Bush's approval ratings? Did you think that you alone were responsible for them being so low? I did notice the left squealing to this day about his spending and yet they are fine with Doper Barry's spending. The hypocrisy knows no bounds.

I think that was a Charles Bronson movie!

Oh no,....I never even THOUGHT of that,....I better go get my affairs in order, before they show up to haul me away.

Thanks for the heads up, T.

So how many here will plus one to what Seafire says, below?

Cross, that was one of those movies I really enjoyed back in the day!

Not "real estate pimp", it just doesn't roll off the tongue properly. "Property pimp" is much better.

We're all pimpin' something.

There are but a handful here that will hold Bush and the GOP accountable as evident by the continuous pom-pomming of the GOP and the near universal exclusion of laying equal blame where it rightfully belongs.


It's not hard to see that the majority here would die to have their beloved Bush back in the WH.

Anybody?

Real question is can you admit you [bleep] up or still think you voted for the right person?

Hell, at this point I would take Jimmy Carter back!

You really think it mattered who we voted for?

JeffO you are just like a little kid stomping his feet for attention.

They are running neck and neck for worst POTUS ever.....unfortunately the present imbecile has plenty of time to pull way ahead before it's all said and done

yup

Yep

I've got a couple of mating geese in my pond that raise all kind of hell that I would take.

I'm not sure I understand your meaning. What does anything that any former politico screwed up have to do with the boondoggle that happened Sunday?

For the record, I would not have voted for Bush Jr a third time - even if allowed - because of his budget "prowess". I'm not convinced Bush Jr was much of a conservative. But it makes no difference - we are not talking about Bush. By the time he left I was ready to see him go. Didn't like McCain either. Sure as hell wasn't going to vote for any of the Democrat front runners. I could possibly stomach Leiberman.

Can you truly look back over the last 6 months, which culminated Sunday and Tuesday, and say the "process" they followed resembled anything the FF put forward?

We have a winner. I do recall many on the conservative side of the Republican ticket being very vocal about the budget issues. Remarkably, a signficant number of Democrats went along. Must be a coincidence that the R's didn't need to pull any shenanigans to pass the bill - regardless of how crappy it was. I didn't like it then, even less now - but the Representative Republic voted for it. I don't have to like it, my countrymen spoke in a fair process w/o a bunch of BS...............

Im sending my dirty toilet paper to washingtonin the mial

I will admit right now and in public that I voted for the wrong person. I voted for McCain and after I saw him sponsor this latest piece of crap legislation calling for prosecuting American Citizens as terrorists and also advocating torturing them, if you read between the lines, I wish I'd thrown my vote to Barr or somebody. I think Barr is an idiot too. McCain is a treacherous, sorry mofo. I can't believe he is the same man who served honorably and underwent torture at the hands of the North Vietnamese. Surreal.

There you go with that "We" schit again,....

you're a real riot,.....

Pretty goddam sad,in actuality.

Well cross, we know that pimpin' ain't easy and evidently neither is selling real estate. It's a man's man sort of occupation right up there with interior design.

i share his point of view. if comes down to us against them i have no problem getting rid of some pest

Jeff is just trying to get his list in order before all hell breaks loose. He's squatted here long enough that he figures he can sell the list of folks like me and several others that won't be taking any crap to government, allowing him to continue on his happy-hippie way.

I said over a year ago that I wasn't paying for welfare baby health care and that still stands. That is, and has been my line in the sand.

This country has proven that it cannot be fixed at the polls, but rather by the will of men who are able and willing to use the force necessary to restore it back to its original state.

The time for talking, voting and negotiations are sadly coming nearer to their end.

amen brother

Lord knows he votes wallet first and rights way down the list, if even on the list.

He'd sell us all out for a can of beans and some clothes........

We have a whole nation of Jeffs running around. They're in every neighborhood and on every street.

When the war is over, they'll be around clinging to the scraps, just like they always have.

Somewhat funny listening to a bunch of guys that supported the 2003 drug bill complaining now.

All about Socialism, ain't they.....always espousing "we", when meaning "me".

Patriots vote, "terrorists" apparently do not.

"The World According To Garp" must be his Bible....

Your plural doesn't include me, schitbird.....

I just don't understand Jeff sometimes.

Jeff don't understand Jeff, don't feel bad

Friend, I do....

What I don't get is how some of the most treasonous, traitorous mofos that you could imagine are now at the helm of our government, and they can turn around with straight faces and call us terrorists. What about Ruby Ridge, Waco, Gordon Kahl, Donald Scott and a hundred other less-known stories where the powers-that-be terrorized average citizens? What about allowing narcotics mules unfettered access to our borders and then our whole territory? I hate how the Left continuously changes the rules and changes the language itself.

If you understand anything just be advised that Jeff is inconsequential.

Really, is that who ended up clinging for scraps after the last civil war? You get so caught up in your own bravado you forget your history.

Yeah, it is........They're not on the winning or losing side. They make a point of being slitherbacks, whether the game is won or lost.

I have no Bravado, just resolve.

I wrote my congressman and AG and told them the scoop. What happens after that is on their shoulders, not mine.

Cole,
Glen Beck had a pretty good take on it this afternoon. It should be on the site tomorrow

I don't consider it a left/right issue....especially the border.

We lack AMERICAN leadership, and it shows at every regulatory agency looking for profit, not rule of law, or even Party.

To dissent, while paying for the party, is terrorism, apparently...

No, have to disagree, it's defiantly left/right, maybe not so much democrat/republican.

I'd say the D's are ran by the left, at this stage, but yes, I agree.

I don't consider the left as Americans....and a ton of the D's and a few R's thrown in there....

OK, I'll bite, what would you consider them? I believe their votes still count in American elections.

The problem is, they count and count and count.

How many own property or pay taxes?

Anyone who votes their neighbor's wallet, I don't consider an American (note this is my opinion, soley).

You may or might not agree, but the font of all our real issues is with Ben's Franklin's summation of the republic (and I know you know what that is).

That is a good point, for certain.

Strongly question the mental stability of one who post extremely opposite opinions of 90%+ of the Campfire members. Appears to be some distorted pleasure derived from provoking and having others members dislike him. However he may unknowingly be assisting these conservative members by allowing them to vent their flustration upon him, rather that their corrupt government leaders. Man this is scary stuff. Jeff O holding hands with conservatives. GW

Well living in CA I know many liberals who own property and pay quite a bit of taxes. I get your point that with some it is about voting the hand that feeds you, but many liberals believe in their cause, pay their share of taxes, and don't see fit to complain like most of us, after all with them it is a warped vision of compassion.

Well, when the populace can hire theft, of no consequence, do you want those people as a neighbor?

Do you want them as an official?

Do they share your duties as a citizen?

If their only duty is to vote for money (property), to steal it to pay for programs no entrepreneur would find profitable, why on earth would I grant them a title I personally revere?

Because it is not your title to bestow.

Would it be reasonable to say that just like all Republicans are not war mongering, bible thumping, elitist Bush leg humpers that not all Dems are socialist, hippie, community organizer lovers?


When I try to look at it rationally, it seems that the hate expressed by each side tends to be towards the more extreme fractions of each party and that a good number of Americans really are closer than what's perceived.

To be honest, sometimes I think people vote more because of they're distrust or dislike of a party rather than what party closest resembles their views. Does anyone really trust either party? I know I don't and I know in the past I've voted based on that mistrust.

So many before we go around and assume every Dem is a San Fran, Pelosi clone, we might look at how we're judged and ask if that's an honest assessment. I say this because it bothers me to hear how Americans would not hesitate to use deadly force on another American - OVER POLITICS!!

Granted, but why do they need everyone to pay for their ideals? If that noble, they could fund them themselves and spare the rest of us. But that isn't what its about....

They also turn out some very ill equipped children, those with no concept of money.

I'd wager a few who pay their taxes with a credit card

Would you deny the title of American to a liberal who went to war for this country?

Like John Kerry?
Bill Clinton as President?

Nope...

I'm not without reason, either.

Even though its my sole personal opinion (which I alluded to), I'm glad you don't allow my personal ability to bestow my own titles....

You ever been wronged by someone, someone who everyone thinks is "it"?

I've never understood what is noble about taking property, creating legislation, then getting a highway named after you.

If someone came up to you on the street, grabbed your wallet and took out money, what would your reaction be? Honestly.

These things matter.

All of us have folks we wouldn't give the time of day to, let alone put on an altar. I question the whole re-distribution idea, for it requires very little thought at all, which is why we are broke....

Well I don't equate all taxation to theft. We can open that can of worms but I fear that would be a hijack of this fine thread. Where I find Kerry's politics lousy at best, I believe he thinks himself compassionate and does not levy taxes as a form of thievery. Don't like his politics at all, but who am I to say he is not an American?

I'm sure many liberals would say giving one's taxes would be generous and compassionate, and to object to these is not the American way. To them I would make the same argument I do to you. It's politics and philosophy, none of it has to do with patriotism IMHO.

Oh yeah, throw Tom Harkin in the "Vet I don't respect" category....

He served. He thinks so much of his American title he lives in the Bahamas....

As an outsider (Australian) this thread has been rather fascinating. It's been a valuable insight into the psyche of parts of America. I read today that

"In particular, 67 per cent of Republicans believe Mr Obama is a socialist, 57 per cent believe he is a Muslim, 38 per cent say he �is doing many of the things that Hitler did�, and 24 per cent say �he may be the Antichrist�.

Would people here agree with these numbers?

Rath

I don't equate all taxation to theft either (there are historic ways the Fed operated before the IRS), but we have gotten to the point that these "Americans" have pressed their "patriotism" to the point that children not born are under a boot...

I'd like to know the basis for Kerry's compassion and generosity, both legal and historic, "precedence" if you will....

Kerry is awfully compassionate with funds not of his own, I do believe....

Their politics and philosophy are based on what?

Those numbers would be very, very conservative in my area of the country.

I'd hate to see his "Conservative" poll numbers....

If I will? I will not, it is not my belief that getting people addicted to the teet to be compassionate, I stressed that liberals do.

They do not accept "spreading the wealth" as anything but compassion, those are not my views, but theirs. However misguided I see those views to be, I don't hate liberals for them, or color them as un-American, only their political beliefs are.

What wealth?

Politics and beliefs are nothing if you have to force them or make others pay for them, despite your service or record. Voluntary contributions are different.

Political beliefs aside, "getting" or making people addicted so far as compassion, to me, is an un-American leap.

I know of a few WWII vets who have a hard time separating misguided political views from those who espoused them.

...and I know a few WWII vets (one a veteran of Guadalcanal) who politically align with Kerry, you think I'm going to call him un-American?.

You should call him utterly confused!

Note that his view of compassion is rooted in an entirely different realm as Kerry's or Barry's (I'll gladly throw Kerry under that bus).

Is the guy a Christian?

Betting he is.....

You know, I'm not sure. Once I learned he was an democrat voter I just let it go, I like the guy too much to argue politics with him. We have talked for hours about things other than politics. I met him doing some photo work for him, and we have struck up a good friendship, I don't want to muck it up over politics.

Dont know about that Muslim thing, appears to be lacking on the Christian side. For sure appears to be one sorry excuse for a President. However it appears that he may be reuniting the nation. But I am guessing he may not like the final outcome. Hitler also reunited, that was the world against him. GW

My father in law was at Pearl on Dec7, he too was a democrat from MN. Can disagree with his politics, but can't call him un-American.

I went to Church with a POW/Veteran of WWII. I worked with him at Church and at work. he was a mentor of great value and appreciation. Still is.

When you are a captive of your enemy, hate is a mild term.

I have gone the politics route with him....

The guy knew Reagan, since he was a broadcaster here and he hated him.

John was Democrat for many years, but the whole political spectrum of his Party changed into something totally different than what he associated with. He was a Union man of the old school.

Sadly, he is fighting for his life, as so many of that age are.

He is not and has never been a leftist liberal.

Might shock you, but I come from a line of Democrats from the past. The other half lost two farms and were abhorred by Roosevelt.

The both had their influences, but traditionally both were more for charity than for elected theft.

The other gentleman I know I met because of John. The guy was a photographer and had his own pictures of Dachau. I saw every one of them....And I listened to him.

Politics are fine and dandy, but giving up resources at penalty of law for distribution often ends in bad things, especially when bestowed on ivory tower dwellers and those with "European" ideas....

My father was a WWII vet and he was a democrat. From what I can figure out the dems were a lot different then than they are today.

Every democrat I know today is arrogant and completely ignorant of all current issues. Their only rebuttal is Bush was worse.

I guess arrogance votes for arrogance. Kind of reminds me of some of the arrogant libs here who will never admit their mistake.

That's all I have to say about this.

Your FIL, a Christian?

Again, he's not Kerry/Berry.....now was he?

We're talking 60 years ago...

...and this we agree on.

and un-American

My Dad was directly commissioned into the USN just before the "Outbreak",...as a Lt. Commander.

Fought a big AKA in both theaters, and lost ONE man,.....a Christian scientest who would not consent to apendectomy.

That BIG ammo ship going up into dust at Okinawa ?,......Dad's ship was right there, in close,....and there was a tanker and a coupla' other "Transports" nailed by Kamikazes. His crew painted more rings on their Bofors and 5"-38 barrels.

I was raised by a LEADER,....and I know what leaders look like,...and behave like.

Years later buried at sea / full honors ranked Captain, Ret.

He was a Democrat.

GTC

This too we agree on, that philosophy is not in the spirit America IMHO.

That being said, an American can be loyal to his country, fight for his country, and still have a differing opinion and philosophy.

Yesterday's Democrat is not the same as today's liberal, forest for the trees, again.

There was a time when you could vote democrat and know you did right, that day is gone, and it ended with my father's generation......

Democrats of today are not the same democrats of yesterday.

the ones of today put the needs of their party far above the needs of their country.

Folks who served this country, during WW2 and Korea, and even Vietnam, are seldom the same Democrats of the past decades. They support this country, OVER party lines Current Democrat leadership doesn't. The serve an ideology, and are left over hippies who think it is important that their generation that MUST change the world, so their otherwise useless generation has some sort of legacy. Most of these same people do not live the same life style that they expect all the rest of us to live.

The think they are some sort of elitist aristocracy. How many of these Democrats who passed this ObamaCare actually are going to use it? NO they still will have access to the best of health care.. they won't be on any 'availability lists' like they expect the rest of us to be.

So it was used "were guys like John Kerry, who 'served' their country in Vietnam, and are Democrats today, are they
Americans"?

Well I just missed having to serve in Vietnam. So I'll pass on the opinion of a step dad who served 4.5 tours in Vietnam, serving in Special Ops within the Air Force, flying unarmed C 130s in sensitive missions, often behind lines in places supposedly where USD involvement didn't exist. On top of that, he has been a lifelong democrat, and still considers himself to be one. He is a retired 0-6, with 26 years of service.

His take on John Kerry, is that he is a pompous liar. He goes ballistic when John Kerry talks about having 3 purple hearts in 90 days. He talks about a lot of guys who earned purple hearts, bronze stars and silver stars, people who earned them when he was also present and witnessed their heroism. He has seen Medal of Honors won. He intimately knew Oliver North in Vietnam and worked with regularly.

His take on John Kerry "winning" 3 purple hearts in 90 days would make him more dynamic than Rambo. He also indicated what Kerry's job in Vietnam was, was considered bottom of the barrel, much akin to being assigned KP..


and then the way Kerry came home and grandstanded against the same military personnel, and pissed on them...

Well, it pisses my step dad off to think, he served in the same action and worn a uniform at the same time Kerry did, and that the country had to tolerance to not give a man like Kerry his just deserve.

so is a combat vet like Kerry considered an American? yeah, but a very very bad example of one.

and I know too many other combat vets of Vietnam that feel the same way.

And these are vets who don't love combat, they served their country at its time of need, and didn't piss on it like a cry baby afterwards...

All this may be true, but it doesn't change the fact that many WWII vets alive today STILL vote democrat, hence my original point, to do so does not make one un-American..

I've met very few of them(if any), personally, who have a differing view and philosophy from mine, a philosophy I owe to them.

Most do not vote their neighbor's wallet, least not with intention, if with intention its borne of 1941 in mind and assuming there exists a common belief and unification.

Most would have the same reaction as wildswalker as to what is going on right at present, and judging from polls, there are a lot of "terrorists" and traitors out there.....

Matter of fact I have heard it from their mouths....

Well I do live in CA, a lot of WWII vets came from CA, and then returned to CA after the war. Like I said, we see it as wrong policy, some here see it as stealing, others see it as generosity. I'm not making their argument, I don't agree with it, I only disagree in labeling all democrats as un-American.