Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire An Honest Discussion of Impeachment

OP here,

I am not sure what to say first, so I'll start with that I am not a troll, nor did my account get hacked. I guess I was too presumptive, assuming people here pay attention to various sources, that I wouldn't need to start from scratch. And I apologize for not posting more, I had some work to get done today and I really didn't think this thread would blow up like it did.

I try to not be political on the internet as, well, this thread exemplifies, it's hardly ever productive. I started this thread out of frustration of what I see going on in D.C.. The tribal, "win at all cost", truth be damned, tone. No matter where we may sit on the impeachment topic, you've got to be disheartened as an American by the behavior there. I may see good reason to impeach, but that in no way means that I endorse the democratic party's strategies or rhetoric. Say it with me: Both sides are guilty. Casting lies back upon other liars just doesn't work. At some point, hopefully, electees, have to say enough, take a good look in the mirror and hold themselves accountable work for the success of the country instead of their re-election.

I'll try to address some of the other points raised in my direction. Regarding Biden, I am all for investigating him. Crucify him, disqualify him from running again, but whatever he did, it still doesn't excuse what Trump's done. What has Trump done? The two items I listed on page 3. Soliciting help from a foreign entity for personal gain (even disregarding Ukraine for the moment, he's asked Russia and China to investigate his political rivals). More concerning, however, he also obstructed the House's constitutional role of oversight. I do understand Executive Privilege, it is important but it does not supersede the fundamental design of a checked government. No other body has the responsibility to hold the President accountable via impeachment than the House of Representatives. If the Executive can deny the House from investigating him, then we do not have a checked Executive branch and our Constitution is violated.

Criminal charges are not required to impeach. A quid pro quo is not required to impeach. I don't know what constitution some people are following here.

Presidents asking foreign governments for personal favors most certainly did not happen since the beginning of time. Giving aid with strings attached for the benefit of the United States, definitely. But for personal gain, that's completely different and can not be confused with. If they did, please share and let's take care of them too.

The House is operating under the processes set when the GOP had the majority there.

Alluding to facts and asking for an honest discussion . . . is that so inflammatory? If that gets your panties in a twist, I feel sorry for you.

Lastly, I find it telling when the major defense for Trump by the GOP is that we 'just don't know'; in the same manner as the tobacco industry denied the connection to lung cancer. Far too often, our own intelligence community, FBI investigations, non-political government officials (including Trump appointees) reach similar conclusions, for Trump, GOP allies, and biased commentators to just say, oh, that person didn't vote for Trump so their professional work is questionable or unbelievable; "No one really knows", or just flat out lies to keep their party voters hearing what they want to hear. There comes a point when you have to realize that the WWE is fake. I get that it may be all fun to believe, to fantasize about throwing people out of helicopters, but come on people. What level of behavior are we willing to pass on to the next President, which eventually won't be Trump.