Originally Posted by JGRaider
I agree with you GregW, chittt happens if you whack enough animals. One thing I do know is that the 139 Scenar I used last year performed as good as a bullet can perform, IMO. Looking forward to 2nd chapter with them this year.


Some mental meandering....

I also agree with GregW. I've seen a lot of weird schitt with various bullets in a lot of contexts, including hunting bullets. I never had an exit on any medium or big game animal I shot through my teens, even with broadside shots. I didn't know they were "required" for decades after that, and I got on the Campfire. I never considered the possibility of an exit having any value until then. I shot things and they died. Sometimes they wandered a ways first, and I had to find them. Sometime later, I did think back and recall that I did see bullets exit in my teens, shot by fellow hunters, and that the animals generally went farther when the bullets exited, as a rule, unless big bones were hit. I was taught not to shoot for big bones.

Eventually I learned that there are many ways to get the job of killing done, and came to admire neck shots for their efficiency when they were available. I still don't like to shoot for shoulders, but it happens. I still notice that unless big bones are hit, bullets that exit generally mean that the animal will go a bit further, but I've never seen that it's relevant, and there are obvious exceptions. All the bullets I've used have killed. A few didn't do as well for me as I had hoped, based upon what I expected. Some have exceeded my expectations. Bergers, and other BTHP "target" bullets have exceeded my expectations, but with the caviat that they aren't propelled faster than 2850 or so, at least on elk. Deer are another story.

Those that I have shot past 3000fps seem to have been a bit more volatile in their performance, and have seemed to be LESS fragile up close than farther out. A .243" 105 at 3050 blew through both shoulders of a buck, as in through both humerus bones, then exited at about 30 yds. It wasn't a good shot. The far shoulder meat was destroyed. The deer looked like it was hit with a wrecking ball. That same bullet barely made it into the rib cage on a cow elk hit square in the shoulder on a quartering shot at exactly 300 yds. The next two exited through the rear lungs broadside, but she was all adrenalined up by then, and a neck shot (that exited) dropped her. I am sure a lot of bullets would have done exactly the same, and some would have done better.

I'd already gotten my cow that year using a much older (and likely softer) SST out of a 270 at 438 yds, which again centered the shoulder and the humerus on a quartering-to shot. She went straight down. There was an exit in the far rear ribs, but not in the hide, and I didn't see the bullet. We had two cows down out of that group, and autopsy wasn't part of the priorities. My brother shot the other cow using ABLR, and he shot his cow in exactly the same spot, but not quartering. That bullet exited the hide.The cow dumped at the shot but got up and stayed on her feet for about 30 yds.

A couple years prior, a cow hit with a 190 Berger at 70 yds behind the shoulder but high just couldn't get to her feet again, though she was alive for longer than I prefer. Not a spine hit. Entrance was a pinpoint. Exit was between a golf ball and a raquetball. Like she got hit with a wrecking ball. Another 190 at 450 or so exited broadside on a barrel-bodied raghorn the previous year. He made it about 25 yds.

Prior to that, a cow at about 150 broadside low right through the heart using a Berger 185 that exited. She didn't react to the shot, and I thought I may have missed. She ran about 50 yds and stopped, so I shot her again in the ribs. Her insides were a mess. My deer that year was steeply quartering from the rear, and the Berger exited (some of it exited, as there was lead and copper fragments in the chest), from close range. I basically brought the gun up and aimed for center mass, as he turned slightly, noticing me as I raised the rifle. He ran, but stayed in view and sort of fell down. I don't recall the distance, and I never noted it. That was the year I feared Bergers were TOO HARD. I think they actually work better the farther they fly.

I used 180 gr Partitions the following year and had predictable results, but nothing different. We had to actually find my elk, as it made a mad dash into thick timber. I hit it in the lungs perfectly, and exited. My deer I shot in the forehead. It was as expected.

If I had enough time, I would relate a dozen other examples of things shot with various bullets that show quite a diversity of behaviors after the hit, if the CNS isn't dismantled, but the lesson I keep taking from all of it again and again is that bullets that don't necessarily exit work better at putting animals down fast if hit in vitals (but not CNS), but that most of them kill just fine across a broad range of circumstances. I still like bullets that seem to transfer their energy through some form of fragmentation the best.


I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.