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I LOVED Coyote's quote: "I'm not really arguing for or against a .270 or one of the .28's as much as I am the stupidity of claims that a particular cartridge is "better" because of a higher B.C. bullet for it. B.C. values don't make a lot of difference until well past where most shots are taken. I used 160g Speer Grand Slams, B.C. .389, in my 7mm RM for 20+ years and never realized I was handicapped. My last elk was taken with a 160g Grand Slam at 411 lasered yards (4 steps and down forever) and would have been just at dead at much longer ranges".
Granting that "exciting" .284" 160 Grand Slum a courteous velocity of 3050fps in a 24" 7mm Remmie Manglum,despite alllllllllll that bearing surface,a 21" Barrett 7-08 will simply fhuqking CRUSH it,with a "lowly" 2600fps launch of a 180 ELD M(Alpha 308 false shoulders,'17 and a mag fed Smooch,lit with 200's).
160GS at 3050fps. Fhuqking HINT.
![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/921/Ukl1fx.png)
Pardon the 180 ELD,more than DOUBLING the BC and it do tend to "matter". Despite only eating 42grs of propellant,to do so,in a 3" shorter spout. Fhuqking HINT.
![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/eUeSrn.png)
It prolly don't suck either,that 400yd wind drift in like conditions,is nearly 50% of the Grand Slum's. And if a 7mm Remmie Mag launched 160gr Grand Slum gets "impressiver" at distances beyond the HILARIOUS 411yd Delusion,then you'll need to wear a fhuqking seatbelt,to squirt a Barrett 180 there too,so as to keep all of the fhuqking STUPID from falling out of you. Hint. LAUGHING!
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HA! I fhuqking love it!
So do I. I keep Stink on ignore but his quoted posts show, as it did here.
Seems he missed a few things in his analysis.
1. The elk died quite handily.
2. He overestimated the velocity by about 175fps. In my buddy’s rifle, which I used for the last elk, the 160g GS runs 2878fps with Winchester brass, 2874 with Federal brass. Don’t know which he had loaded, but suspect Winchester.
3. The ELD Match didn’t exist at the time I shot the elk. It was not an option.
4. The 160g Grand Slam killed every elk I tried it on, regardless of range (411 yards was the max). Dead is dead.
5. I quit using Grand Slams in my own rifles about 16 years ago. Gave the ones I had to my left on my shelf to my hunting buddy. I used what he had in his rifle when he handed it to me. Even given the low velocity and “poor” B.C., it worked. No surprise to me.
6. The wind drift of a bullet that didn’t exist at the time is a non-issue, but in any case, the wind itself was not an issue.
7. My statements about B.C. were specifically related to ranges “where most shots are taken “. In my experience that is under 300 yards.
8. My argument was about “the stupidity of claims that a particular cartridge is "better" because of a higher B.C. bullet for it”. B.C. is one thing but external ballistics also rely on initial velocity, among other things. And “better” is determined by many factors, not just B.C. or external ballistics.
My daughters like my .257 Roberts with 110g AccuBond (B.C. 418) at 3163fps for antelope. (So do I.) Would a 28 Nosler driving a 180g ELD Match (B.C. .796) pushed to 3000fps be “better” for them? Not hardly. Their comfort range is limited to about 300 yards. Given 6000 feet of altitude, 59 degrees, a 250 yard zero and a 8.1 pound rifle/scope combo, the Federal ballistic calculator shows the following. The calculator can be found here:
https://www.federalpremium.com/ballistics-calculator.
The recoil is based on my Ruger M77 .257 rifle weight and a calculator found here:
http://www.shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php.
At 300 yards:
.257 Roberts, 110AB @ 3163fps:
Powder charge 46.5g
Drop = 3”
Drift = 5”
Velocity = 2618fps
Energy = 1674fps
Recoil = 13.2 ft-lbs @ 10.2fps
280 Nosler, 180 ELD Match @ 3000fps
Powder charge 90.6g
Drop = 3”
Drift = 2.7”
Velocity = 2716fps
Energy = 2947fps
Recoil = 38.6 ft-lbs @ 17.5fps
Both cartridges will clearly do the job (antelope) at the ranges at which my girls are comfortable shooting. The .257 is the “better choice” for the girls because of recoil considerations (and the fact that none of us have or are willing to acquire a 28 Nosler, something that must be considered when selecting the “best” cartridge for a specific situation).
If a higher B.C. alone made for a “better” cartridge… but it doesn’t.
