Feds Announce Plan to Restore Bison Populations and Improve America’s Grasslands The Department of the Interior will rely on Indigenous Knowledge and direct $25 million in federal funding to build back bison herds and improve grassland habitats
BY DAC COLLINS | PUBLISHED MAR 3, 2023 4:37 PM EST
n celebration of World Wildlife Day, the Department of the Interior announced Friday that it’s launching an ambitious new program to restore American bison and vital grassland ecosystems. Interior Secretary Deb Haaland’s order empowers the DOI’s bureaus and partners to work with Indigenous leaders and communities to bring back wild bison populations in the central U.S. The program will receive more than $25 million in federal funding from the Inflation Reduction Act.
As the DOI points out in Friday’s announcement, bison recovery in the 20th century is already one of America’s greatest conservation success stories. Rebounding from an all-time low of a few hundred animals in 1889, the nation’s wild bison herds now number greater than 15,000. The vast majority of these—around 11,000 of them—are spread across 4.6 million acres of public land in 12 states.
This number, however, represents a tiny fraction of the roughly 60 million bison that roamed across pre-colonial North America. Bison are still “functionally extinct” on the larger grassland systems they coevolved with, according to the DOI, and the loss of this keystone species has been both culturally and ecologically devastating. By working to expand bison herds and steward the habitats they rely on, the DOI aims to improve the overall health of America’s heartland.
“The American bison is inextricably intertwined with Indigenous culture, grassland ecology and American history,” Haaland said in Friday’s press release. “While the overall recovery of bison over the last 130 years is a conservation success story, significant work remains to not only ensure that bison will remain a viable species but also to restore grassland ecosystems, strengthen rural economies dependent on grassland health and provide for the return of bison to Tribally owned and ancestral lands.”
The Important Role of Tribes in Restoring Bison The order outlines a framework for bison restoration in the U.S. by formally establishing a Bison Working Group. The BWG will include representatives from the five DOI bureaus that already manage lands with bison on them: the Bureau of Indian Affairs, Bureau of Land Management, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, National Park Service, and the U.S. Geological Survey.
These partners will develop a long-term stewardship plan to establish new bison herds, restore native plant communities, and strengthen existing conservation partnerships. Importantly, the DOI says that “robust engagement with Tribes” is at the core of these efforts. Tribally led organizations will play a leading role in the management of current and future herds, according to the agency, which seems only natural considering their vast well of knowledge and the deep cultural ties they have with American bison.
The Interior Department is committing more than $25 million to these ends. This funding comes from the Inflation Reduction Act, which the current administration describes as “a historic and transformational investment” in tackling the climate crisis while creating good-paying jobs and lowering the cost of living for working Americans.
The Power of Prairies
While the federal government’s ultimate vision is to bring back a portion of the once-thundering herds that roamed the Great Plains, this can only be achieved by improving the health of the grasslands these animals rely on. According to some estimates, more than two-thirds of these habitats have been eliminated over the years. Restoring America’s imperiled grasslands will help the free-range ruminants regain their footing. It will also provide benefits that extend far beyond increasing bison forage.
Stronger, healthier grasslands enhance soil quality and benefit countless other species, from mule deer to migratory birds to pronghorn and pollinators. On a landscape level, America’s prairies are also one of our most important tools in building climate resiliency.
Read Next: The Grasslands Conservation Act Just Hit the Senate. Here’s What it Means for Hunters and Wildlife
Thanks to the deep root systems of native, perennial grasses—which evolved, in part, due to the constant grazing of bison—these ecosystems can store vast amounts of carbon over time. Even though trees get most of the attention when we talk about “carbon sequestration,” studies have found that grasslands in fire-prone regions can actually be more reliable carbon sinks than forests. (This is because deep-rooting grasses store carbon underground, while trees store it in their trunks and leaves—where it all gets released back into the atmosphere during wildfires.)
Bringing back bison while restoring grasslands and bolstering climate resiliency are goals that align with much of the larger conservation community. Several of these groups, including Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, have already voiced their support for the strategic investments that are being prioritized under Secretary Haaland’s Order.
“Today’s announcement by the administration outlines the most pressing conservation issues in our great country,” BHA President and CEO Land Tawney said Friday. “We applaud their commitment and look forward to helping advance the work that will anchor our public lands conservation both immediately and in the longer term.”
The DOI’s plan to restore bison will no doubt be met with criticism, particularly from the cattle industry, which has largely benefited from the disappearance of bison in the U.S. by overtaking the same grasslands that bison once dominated. Cattle grazing is now the single largest use of federally owned lands in the West. According to some group’s estimates, there are currently around 1.5 million cows grazing on public land across 13 Western states.
Accordingly, politicians with ties to the cattle industry have been some of the most outspoken opponents of bison restoration in recent years. In December, Montana Gov. Greg Gianforte appealed a BLM decision that granted a 10-year bison grazing permit on state-owned lands managed by the federal agency. Gianforte has argued that bison conservation undermines the health of rural livestock, and that public lands within the state should only be leased to commercial livestock producers.
I'm down with bison restoration. I just hope someone understands 25 million is a pitiful drop in the bucket of what this will actually cost, not to mention a lot of people no longer enjoying their mcburgers.
THIS ^. Going to be interesting to see how this is managed. Res in Wyoming wanted wild horses to save them. Now they have 5,000 and want the Gove to come save the rez from the wild horses. They could build a slaughter house and take care of the problem but they won't. .
THIS ^. Going to be interesting to see how this is managed. Res in Wyoming wanted wild horses to save them. Now they have 5,000 and want the Gove to come save the rez from the wild horses. They could build a slaughter house and take care of the problem but they won't. .
Ship them to the slaughter house in Fort Macleod Alberta. All they process are horses.
It's a hundred to one that that they haven't thought about private property rights on the prairies and a thousand to one that they just flat out don't care.
If anybody has a success story of a Federal program in the last 50 years...please share it with us, ANY success. The REA of 1935 turned out well, but that is the last I can think of...
you all realize the goal to this is the end of cattle ranching right. and the injuns are being used as pawns....for their own good we should have taken the indian wars further
THIS ^. Going to be interesting to see how this is managed. Res in Wyoming wanted wild horses to save them. Now they have 5,000 and want the Gove to come save the rez from the wild horses. They could build a slaughter house and take care of the problem but they won't. .
Ship them to the slaughter house in Fort Macleod Alberta. All they process are horses.
I agree BUT.
The doo gooders would have a fit. The feds wont allow them to go to slaughter houses.
Gonna take way more than 25 million once everyone is paid off with their hands in the cookie jar! Who is going to be the new poster child for this little cluster phuque!
Who’s going to pay for the fences they go through? “Indigenous knowledge” ? What makes them experts on bison management? It’s been a while since they last subsisted on bison herds.
Bison and pronghorn antelope have a symbiotic relationship.
The large bison rubs out bare spots on the bunch grass prairie which opens up a viable seed bed for forbs that the pronghorn feed upon. The pronghorn eating the forbs allows more light for the grass to grow which the bison feeds upon.
On today's prairie, cattle have replaced bison. Pronghorn and cattle have a similar symbiotic relationship. That is why I always glass the edges of a cattle herd and I am often rewarded with spotting pronghorn.
you all realize the goal to this is the end of cattle ranching right. and the injuns are being used as pawns....for their own good we should have taken the indian wars further
Bison and pronghorn antelope have a symbiotic relationship.
The large bison rubs out bare spots on the bunch grass prairie which opens up a viable seed bed for forbs that the pronghorn feed upon. The pronghorn eating the forbs allows more light for the grass to grow which the bison feeds upon.
On today's prairie, cattle have replaced bison. Pronghorn and cattle have a similar symbiotic relationship. That is why I always glass the edges of a cattle herd and I am often rewarded with spotting pronghorn.
Tks, buffalo rock of course 😎 but reading the OP I was wondering what intelligently managed buffalo could do that intelligently managed cattle could not, other than being a whole lot harder to handle and most likely less productive.
Also, I get the tradition/cultural/religious connection, but how did Indians back then manage buffalo other than by burning off the prairie?
Buffalo bones are absent in Pre-Colombian Indian middens east of the Mississippi, and in historic times only spread east after the devastating epidemics of the 15 and 1600’s eliminated the great majority of the Indians.
I’m pretty sure that after they got the horse the Indians themselves were taking buffalo at unsustainable rates.
Bison and pronghorn antelope have a symbiotic relationship.
The large bison rubs out bare spots on the bunch grass prairie which opens up a viable seed bed for forbs that the pronghorn feed upon. The pronghorn eating the forbs allows more light for the grass to grow which the bison feeds upon.
On today's prairie, cattle have replaced bison. Pronghorn and cattle have a similar symbiotic relationship. That is why I always glass the edges of a cattle herd and I am often rewarded with spotting pronghorn.
Tks, buffalo rock of course 😎 but reading the OP I was wondering what intelligently managed buffalo could do that intelligently managed cattle could not, other than being a whole lot harder to handle and most likely less productive.
Also, I get the tradition/cultural/religious connection, but how did Indians back then manage buffalo other than by burning off the prairie?
Buffalo bones are absent in Pre-Colombian Indian middens east of the Mississippi, and in historic times only spread east after the devastating epidemics of the 15 and 1600’s eliminated the great majority of the Indians.
I’m pretty sure that after they got the horse the Indians themselves were taking buffalo at unsustainable rates.
It''s a stupid idea. the Blood tribe in southern Alberta dream of having free ranging bison restored to the prairies so they (Bloods) can be whole again. Given all the cattle, fences and croplands in the area, I'm pretty sure thay haven't thought this out.
you all realize the goal to this is the end of cattle ranching right. and the injuns are being used as pawns....for their own good we should have taken the indian wars further
You realize that this isn't the 'injuns' doing this to us all, right? It's the plain old European perverts running the nation. Old whitey don't care much about the fate of his kinsfolk.
Just wait until a big outbreak of Brucellosis in the Bison herd jumps to cattle and starts killing off large herds. Then, just think about the recent bird flu epidemic’s effect on egg and chicken meat prices.
And then multiply that times 10 on beef prices. 🤪
But then, of course, the New Green Deal Idiot DemoRat’s can’t wait to kill off the American Beef Cattle Industry. All part of their plan to turn America into just another 3rd World Commie SCHITTHOLE. 😡
Anyone have any concern of how this money became available? We have many trillions of yet we are spending another 25 billion. Sounds like more kick back money being laundered to special interest groups before the 2024 elections.
Anyone have any concern of how this money became available? We have many trillions of yet we are spending another 25 billion. Sounds like more kick back money being laundered to special interest groups before the 2024 elections.
I do believe the figure noted in the OP is $25 Million with an "M", not a "B".
Then again, I have made a mistake...........once I think.
" You do know an Indian is in charge of this plan?
Yes, and that $25,000,000.00 is a mighty tasty tidbit to play around with, isn't it?
Plus, when the buffler herds are back up to speed, the "indigenous" Indians can then renew their favorite method of conservation hunting .... driving several hundreds of bufflers over high cliffs where they fall to their deaths and suffer horrible injuries. Then the indigenous Indians can cut out some tongues and a few buffler humps, get in their pickups and drive back to camp, swill down some firewater, beat some drums and dance around the camp fire.
Be just like the good ol' days before the evil white devils came and stole all their land.
“The Department of the Interior will rely on Indigenous Knowledge”
😂
This is gonna be hilarious. $50million later and there’s gonna be a handful of half starved retarded buffalo giving rides to tourists at $30 a pop while the native “guide” chuggs Aquanet.
Some projects don't require billions to keep folks down the ladder happy.
In the 40+ years i have lived here the few folks that have had Buffs had a love/hate relationship with them.
If they got it in their mind to go some where they went thru fence.
No amount of wire would stop them.
If they liked where they were they would come back in a little while.
But if they were not fed well they would leave and travel till they found a place they liked and stayed till they moved again.
Fence in NM west of here used power poles for posts,the wife's dad just went behind them with a load of poles and wire and patched,this is around the caprock north of Matador.
Will folks get to shoot and eat those that ruin their property?
" You do know an Indian is in charge of this plan?
Yes, and that $25,000,000.00 is a mighty tasty tidbit to play around with, isn't it?
Plus, when the buffler herds are back up to speed, the "indigenous" Indians can then renew their favorite method of conservation hunting .... driving several hundreds of bufflers over high cliffs where they fall to their deaths and suffer horrible injuries. Then the indigenous Indians can cut out some tongues and a few buffler humps, get in their pickups and drive back to camp, swill down some firewater, beat some drums and dance around the camp fire.
Be just like the good ol' days before the evil white devils came and stole all their land.
Indian Utopia.
L.W.
So buffalo robes can make a comeback?? Maybe I can get one signed by one of Geronimo's descendants. I want a white buffalo robe because they're 'sacred' 'n stuff
you all realize the goal to this is the end of cattle ranching right. and the injuns are being used as pawns....for their own good we should have taken the indian wars further
You realize that this isn't the 'injuns' doing this to us all, right? It's the plain old European perverts running the nation. Old whitey don't care much about the fate of his kinsfolk.
U.S. SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR Secretary Deb Haaland Secretary Deb Haaland made history when she became the first Native American to serve as a cabinet secretary. She is a member of the Pueblo of Laguna
An Indian is calling the shots at the Department of the Interior.
U.S. SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR Secretary Deb Haaland Secretary Deb Haaland made history when she became the first Native American to serve as a cabinet secretary. She is a member of the Pueblo of Laguna
An Indian is calling the shots at the Department of the Interior.
Injun gets one more chance to scalp the White Man??? Wasn't she an Earth First! schitthead???
U.S. SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR Secretary Deb Haaland Secretary Deb Haaland made history when she became the first Native American to serve as a cabinet secretary. She is a member of the Pueblo of Laguna
An Indian is calling the shots at the Department of the Interior.
Injun gets one more chance to scalp the White Man??? Wasn't she an Earth First! schitthead???
I recall some controversy when she was confirmed. She shouldn't have been confirmed.
So much info shared here is completely and horribly wrong.
Many tribes have restored bison herds and manage them well. Bison are heartier than cattle and eat about the same amount of grass, a little less actually. They reproduce at the same rates but often live longer. Brucellosis can be spread by cattle or bison just as easily and affects them similarly. That myth reminds me of some of the COVID BS we were told.
Threads like this remind me of the vast ignorance of boomers. No wonder they drove this country into the dirt.
I'm somewhat lacking in knowledge on buffalo and Indians restoration of them. Many tribes? Which ones? How many buffalo involved with each? How much acreage involved with each of those restorations? Free ranging? Documentation on how much buffalo eat compared to cattle? Documentation on reproductive rate comparisons.
Not saying your wrong or being a smart ass. I just don't know and your statements, if true, need documentation from reputable sources.
What I do know is that the myth about the Indians being great stewards of nature is just that-- a myth.
I'm somewhat lacking in knowledge on buffalo and Indians restoration of them. Many tribes? Which ones? How many buffalo involved with each? How much acreage involved with each of those restorations? Free ranging? Documentation on how much buffalo eat compared to cattle? Documentation on reproductive rate comparisons.
Not saying your wrong or being a smart ass. I just don't know and your statements, if true, need documentation from reputable sources.
What I do know is that the myth about the Indians being great stewards of nature is just that-- a myth.
Ask the ranchers around ft belknap how well they maintain their herd lol.
I'm somewhat lacking in knowledge on buffalo and Indians restoration of them. Many tribes? Which ones? How many buffalo involved with each? How much acreage involved with each of those restorations? Free ranging? Documentation on how much buffalo eat compared to cattle? Documentation on reproductive rate comparisons.
Not saying your wrong or being a smart ass. I just don't know and your statements, if true, need documentation from reputable sources.
What I do know is that the myth about the Indians being great stewards of nature is just that-- a myth.
I have two within a short drive of me and know of many others. If you do a little homework you'll find the info you seek. Some acreages are quite small actually and are stocked accordingly. Look up what an AUM is she you can find out a lot there as well. They have pretty much every animal you can think of figured out for how much it will graze. There are lots and lots of bison herds all over North America that do just fine. Yet this one will supposedly end mankind or destroy local beef markets, producers etc? Pick a new argument if you got something against Buffalo. Your talking points here have lost time and again and have been proven time and again to be unfounded. Sure you could probably cherry pick and find a case somewhere to back your claim, but isolated instances don't show a trend.
I won't argue the stewards of the land part you mentioned.
Just because you don't know something doesn't mean it's someone else's duty to teach you. You possess the power and means to learn all on your own.
So much info shared here is completely and horribly wrong.
Many tribes have restored bison herds and manage them well. Bison are heartier than cattle and eat about the same amount of grass, a little less actually. They reproduce at the same rates but often live longer. Brucellosis can be spread by cattle or bison just as easily and affects them similarly. That myth reminds me of some of the COVID BS we were told.
Threads like this remind me of the vast ignorance of boomers. No wonder they drove this country into the dirt.
Bison have exactly the same effect on grazing that European cattle do. They are probably tougher, I know the meat generally is tougher and not near as tasty as fed beef. Brucellosis has been eliminated in domestic cattle. The USDA has certified every state free of cattle brucellosis. Bison bulls will breed domestic cattle and vice versa which along with bison afterbirth could very well spread disease. Bison herds are infected and almost impossible to 100% corral as evidenced in the annual Custer Park roundup, therefore culling Bangs positive bison would be problematic if you can't even catch them. I can understand western farmers not wanting a bunch of fence breakers weighing up to a ton in their pastures, alfalfa fields, and highways.
As far as the Indians. For the most part their reservations are slums and would descend into a much worse abyss without the huge injections of federal aid every month.
So much info shared here is completely and horribly wrong.
Many tribes have restored bison herds and manage them well. Bison are heartier than cattle and eat about the same amount of grass, a little less actually. They reproduce at the same rates but often live longer. Brucellosis can be spread by cattle or bison just as easily and affects them similarly. That myth reminds me of some of the COVID BS we were told.
Threads like this remind me of the vast ignorance of boomers. No wonder they drove this country into the dirt.
I'm somewhat lacking in knowledge on buffalo and Indians restoration of them. Many tribes? Which ones? How many buffalo involved with each? How much acreage involved with each of those restorations? Free ranging? Documentation on how much buffalo eat compared to cattle? Documentation on reproductive rate comparisons.
Not saying your wrong or being a smart ass. I just don't know and your statements, if true, need documentation from reputable sources.
What I do know is that the myth about the Indians being great stewards of nature is just that-- a myth.
Ask the ranchers around ft belknap how well they maintain their herd lol.
It's retarded.
Those Indians forgot the magical thrifty buffler needs water to drink......and killed a pile of them.
Why are these guys involved and what do they get out of it?
IDK, 25 million? Like it was mentioned above, the cookie jar will have all kinds of hands in it (maybe that answers my question above) and what is left over will be crumbs, not even scraps.
Best guess is:
Most of the money gets laundered to the DNC. Res Chiefs get their cut. BCHA gets theirs. Becuz - climate change. Democrats check off their "we tried for you box; so vote for us in order to save the planet from evil carbon (but really we need the money for more fuel for our private jets and support for evil commie activities).
That was my first thought as well! My second thought is that 85% (I have no idea what the percentage actually is) of those grasslands are owned by people, and a lot of them are fenced off for beef cattle. You probably won’t find anybody who would love nothing more than to gaze upon a herd of buff stretching to the horizon as much as I would. I know I was born late. I missed the muscle car era by 30 years and exploring the beautiful plains and mountains of the west by 100 years! But I’m a realist, and I try to think and act on factual information. Buff on the highways is gonna cause havoc. Buff pushing down fences to go where they please is gonna cause a separate havoc. And as others have said, name one time anything the government has done worked out for the good. Other than The Manhattan Project, I got nothing! 7mm
So much info shared here is completely and horribly wrong.
Many tribes have restored bison herds and manage them well. Bison are heartier than cattle and eat about the same amount of grass, a little less actually. They reproduce at the same rates but often live longer. Brucellosis can be spread by cattle or bison just as easily and affects them similarly. That myth reminds me of some of the COVID BS we were told.
Threads like this remind me of the vast ignorance of boomers. No wonder they drove this country into the dirt.
Exactly! I'm aware of local regions where they are successfully restoring the bison herds and native grasses. I'm all in favor of restoring them on a much larger scale.
What a lot of those ignant-assed boomer comments are leaving out is that it was the US Govt and greedy buffalo hunters engaged in a genocidal war against the Indian tribes that nearly wiped out the great herds. As a matter of fact, in my early years, I lived just a few miles from where the last known eastern woodland buffalo was killed and it wasn't by an Indian. A dumbass hillbilly did it.
Ah yes....but....there is a money laundering outfit called the American Prairie Reserve that is buying private property along with huge BLM leases with money swindled from retarded bleeding heart types from the coast.
Hell...they just got allowed to graze all year long by the BLM. NO for the cattlemen.
So much info shared here is completely and horribly wrong.
Many tribes have restored bison herds and manage them well. Bison are heartier than cattle and eat about the same amount of grass, a little less actually. They reproduce at the same rates but often live longer. Brucellosis can be spread by cattle or bison just as easily and affects them similarly. That myth reminds me of some of the COVID BS we were told.
Threads like this remind me of the vast ignorance of boomers. No wonder they drove this country into the dirt.
Exactly! I'm aware of local regions where they are successfully restoring the bison herds and native grasses. I'm all in favor of restoring them on a much larger scale.
What a lot of those ignant-assed boomer comments are leaving out is that it was the US Govt and greedy buffalo hunters engaged in a genocidal war against the Indian tribes that nearly wiped out the great herds. As a matter of fact, in my early years, I lived just a few miles from where the last known eastern woodland buffalo was killed and it wasn't by an Indian. A dumbass hillbilly did it.
Of course it's a scam of many prongs and proportions. One problem facing bison is inbreeding. There's vary limited DNA varieties, so the idea was to cross buffs with cattle, then back to kinda fix it. No idea if they did it or not. They really were nearly extinct. Having been stuck in traffic 2 1/2 hours while the Navaho held their annual fair in Shiprock, it seems prudent to leave Comanches in charge of logistics. Unless comic hilarity is the desired effect.
So much info shared here is completely and horribly wrong.
Many tribes have restored bison herds and manage them well. Bison are heartier than cattle and eat about the same amount of grass, a little less actually. They reproduce at the same rates but often live longer. Brucellosis can be spread by cattle or bison just as easily and affects them similarly. That myth reminds me of some of the COVID BS we were told.
Threads like this remind me of the vast ignorance of boomers. No wonder they drove this country into the dirt.
Exactly! I'm aware of local regions where they are successfully restoring the bison herds and native grasses. I'm all in favor of restoring them on a much larger scale.
What a lot of those ignant-assed boomer comments are leaving out is that it was the US Govt and greedy buffalo hunters engaged in a genocidal war against the Indian tribes that nearly wiped out the great herds. As a matter of fact, in my early years, I lived just a few miles from where the last known eastern woodland buffalo was killed and it wasn't by an Indian. A dumbass hillbilly did it.
Lol
I’d be fine if the machine gunned the current herds from helicopter.
Jim is correct. One has to know which congressman to buy for whatever scheme you have. I like seeing a few buffalo in contained ares by private ranches. These are trying to make a profit and not drain tax payers money. Edk
I thought this was gonna be a right-wing rebuttal involving an “Indians are Morons” theme.
But, surprisingly well researched and written.
Yepper, once they got the horse the Indians did what ever’body else throughout history did; depleted a readily available resource, killing bunches for their tongues and trading hides by the thousands…..
LOL!! A Major I " worked" for told me about his Buffalo " Hunt" he did on some Rez land up in Wyoming or Montana. They had em all fenced in about 35 or 40 of em on like 5 acres of land... Indian wild Buffalo hunt... 🤪🤦♂️🤪 He paid his 3 or 4 k IIRC and waylayed his Buffalo at about 30 yds thru the fence. Can't remember what rifle he said he used.
But the hunt was portrayed as a wild Buffalo hunt. Not rounded up fenced in one's like what went down when he arrived.. 4 or 5 other customers/ " hunters" their waiting for their shot at a Tatonka also....
He just said fugg it... Had already paid via credit and throw in all the travel, time, and logistics.
The Indians did have butchering and shipping of the meat, head, and hide options all set up too.
Have seen a few threads on here over the years per Buffalo " hunts" that had fenced in stuff going on in the pics.
Wait Wait! Not so fast. Bisons fart right? So are environmentalists and AOC ok with this program? I mean more farting bovines could adversely impact the years remaining till the death of the planet right?
as stupid a proposal as I have heard yet. What we should do is eliminate indian status and incorporate them into the melting pot with the rest of us.
Tens of thousands of White people named "Dwight England" and "Suzie Worthington" but who are 'on the rolls' shake their fist and turquoise jewelry at you!!!
Ah yes....but....there is a money laundering outfit called the American Prairie Reserve that is buying private property along with huge BLM leases with money swindled from retarded bleeding heart types from the coast.
Hell...they just got allowed to graze all year long by the BLM. NO for the cattlemen.
It just takes money.
As always, applying “Ocamms Razor” puts things into a little different perspective! Always look at who stands to gain what and go from there. 7mm
So much info shared here is completely and horribly wrong.
Many tribes have restored bison herds and manage them well. Bison are heartier than cattle and eat about the same amount of grass, a little less actually. They reproduce at the same rates but often live longer. Brucellosis can be spread by cattle or bison just as easily and affects them similarly. That myth reminds me of some of the COVID BS we were told.
Threads like this remind me of the vast ignorance of boomers. No wonder they drove this country into the dirt.
This /\
The ignorance of the fire is on full display in this thread.
"Gianforte has argued that bison conservation undermines the health of rural livestock, and that public lands within the state should only be leased to commercial livestock producers."
Jersey is a moron. Bison are classified livestock in MT. Dumb fugg is the governor and doesn't know this. LOL
Who’s going to pay for the fences they go through? “Indigenous knowledge” ? What makes them experts on bison management? It’s been a while since they last subsisted on bison herds.
Whoever owns the fence will be then one that will pay. The old western law for the ranchers will apply here, "If you don't want the Bison/cattle on your property then YOU will have to fence them out".
So much info shared here is completely and horribly wrong.
Many tribes have restored bison herds and manage them well. Bison are heartier than cattle and eat about the same amount of grass, a little less actually. They reproduce at the same rates but often live longer. Brucellosis can be spread by cattle or bison just as easily and affects them similarly. That myth reminds me of some of the COVID BS we were told.
Threads like this remind me of the vast ignorance of boomers. No wonder they drove this country into the dirt.
This /\
The ignorance of the fire is on full display in this thread.
"Gianforte has argued that bison conservation undermines the health of rural livestock, and that public lands within the state should only be leased to commercial livestock producers."
Jersey is a moron. Bison are classified livestock in MT. Dumb fugg is the governor and doesn't know this. LOL
Been out campaigning for your bitch Tester yet callnum?
So much info shared here is completely and horribly wrong.
Many tribes have restored bison herds and manage them well. Bison are heartier than cattle and eat about the same amount of grass, a little less actually. They reproduce at the same rates but often live longer. Brucellosis can be spread by cattle or bison just as easily and affects them similarly. That myth reminds me of some of the COVID BS we were told.
Threads like this remind me of the vast ignorance of boomers. No wonder they drove this country into the dirt.
This /\
The ignorance of the fire is on full display in this thread.
"Gianforte has argued that bison conservation undermines the health of rural livestock, and that public lands within the state should only be leased to commercial livestock producers."
Jersey is a moron. Bison are classified livestock in MT. Dumb fugg is the governor and doesn't know this. LOL
Been out campaigning for your bitch Tester yet callnum?
Exactly! I'm aware of local regions where they are successfully restoring the bison herds and native grasses. I'm all in favor of restoring them on a much larger scale.
What a lot of those ignorant-assed boomer comments are leaving out is that it was the US Govt and greedy buffalo hunters engaged in a genocidal war against the Indian tribes that nearly wiped out the great herds. As a matter of fact, in my early years, I lived just a few miles from where the last known eastern woodland buffalo was killed and it wasn't by an Indian. A dumbass hillbilly did it.
The Indians and the bison were not compatible with settlement and farming, so they had to go. There was no way agriculture and industrialization was possible with well armed highly mobile nomads stealing and murdering at will. Likewise crops could never have been successful with wild very strong fence breaking cattle roaming at will.
In truth the Indians were treated better than most conquered peoples. And the bison are now believed to have mostly succumbed to Texas Tick Fever or anthrax brought north by the Texas cattle that were immune carriers. No way 60 million cattle could have been shot out. They would have produced 15 million calves a year if only half the females would have produced.
Both the Indians and the bison were mostly decimated by European introduced diseases. The buffalo hunters just finished the job on the remaining herd. Those huge piles of bones you see at the railroads could just as easy been collected from skeletons remaining after natural death.
Ah yes....but....there is a money laundering outfit called the American Prairie Reserve that is buying private property along with huge BLM leases with money swindled from retarded bleeding heart types from the coast.
Hell...they just got allowed to graze all year long by the BLM. NO for the cattlemen.
It just takes money.
American Prairie buys ranches from willing sellers, as American as apple pie and baseball. Its none of you gdamn business who a private landowner decides to sell to. If they want to pass their ranches on to their kids, sell it to the hippies down the street, sell it to the Federal Government, or sell to a non profit...not any of your concern.
AP is also great about public access, they allow hunting and allow access across their property to formerly landlocked BLM, State, and other Federal lands.
Also, the BLM leases typically go with the property, they aren't directly purchased but rather continue with property that AP purchases.
The bison were approved for grazing on AP BLM leases, because guess what? The Republicans in Montana were so "smart" they fell for the DOL to classify bison as livestock in Montana? Why? So the DOL could kill the bison that leave Yellowstone Park.
That has consequences and the brain trust that is the Republican Party in Montana should have been smart enough to realize what those consequences would be. The BLM is simply allowing the state classified livestock (bison) that AP owns, to graze as livestock on their BLM leases that were tied to the ranches they legally purchased.
Please provide proof of this year round bison grazing the BLM is allowing...I say you're full of chit, as per always.
Oh, and here's a bull my Dad shot on AP property that they acquired from a poaching scumbag from Minneapolis. A year prior, this property was off limits to the public, I'm very happy AP purchased it. My family and I donate to AP every year, and they're the best thing that's ever happened to the breaks. Great organization that does great work.
As to the tribes expanding their bison herds, I hope they continue what they're already doing. Again, I have ZERO issue with tribes doing what they want on their reservations, its NONE of anyone's business but theirs. If they can corral some Federal money to continue to expand their herds, I think that's great. No different than other ranchers receiving subsidized grazing and farming.
Ah yes....but....there is a money laundering outfit called the American Prairie Reserve that is buying private property along with huge BLM leases with money swindled from retarded bleeding heart types from the coast.
Hell...they just got allowed to graze all year long by the BLM. NO for the cattlemen.
It just takes money.
American Prairie buys ranches from willing sellers, as American as apple pie and baseball. Its none of you gdamn business who a private landowner decides to sell to. If they want to pass their ranches on to their kids, sell it to the hippies down the street, sell it to the Federal Government, or sell to a non profit...not any of your concern.
AP is also great about public access, they allow hunting and allow access across their property to formerly landlocked BLM, State, and other Federal lands.
Also, the BLM leases typically go with the property, they aren't directly purchased but rather continue with property that AP purchases.
The bison were approved for grazing on AP BLM leases, because guess what? The Republicans in Montana were so "smart" they fell for the DOL to classify bison as livestock in Montana? Why? So the DOL could kill the bison that leave Yellowstone Park.
That has consequences and the brain trust that is the Republican Party in Montana should have been smart enough to realize what those consequences would be. The BLM is simply allowing the state classified livestock (bison) that AP owns, to graze as livestock on their BLM leases that were tied to the ranches they legally purchased.
Please provide proof of this year round bison grazing the BLM is allowing...I say you're full of chit, as per always.
Oh, and here's a bull my Dad shot on AP property that they acquired from a poaching scumbag from Minneapolis. A year prior, this property was off limits to the public, I'm very happy AP purchased it. My family and I donate to AP every year, and they're the best thing that's ever happened to the breaks. Great organization that does great work.
As to the tribes expanding their bison herds, I hope they continue what they're already doing. Again, I have ZERO issue with tribes doing what they want on their reservations, its NONE of anyone's business but theirs. If they can corral some Federal money to continue to expand their herds, I think that's great. No different than other ranchers receiving subsidized grazing and farming.
Oh man! Change your tampon Cathy!
Your buddies are the biggest bunch of money laundering, access limiting crooks around!
No wonder BHA loves em!
Hahahaha!
Nothing makes for cleaner Bozeman real estate development money than running it through a "conservation" outfit first!
I suspect that Buzzie or Callie don't know where Phillips County is......or that there is a BLM office in Lewsitown.
Hilarious...I'm not a move-in to Montana, 4th generation Montana Native.
When did you move to Montana?
Laffin'...
Pretty familiar with all things Montana including Phillips and Blaine County. My family hunted Bill Cowen's place for a lot of years as well as other South of Chinook in that Cleveland/Lloyd country.
Ah yes....but....there is a money laundering outfit called the American Prairie Reserve that is buying private property along with huge BLM leases with money swindled from retarded bleeding heart types from the coast.
Hell...they just got allowed to graze all year long by the BLM. NO for the cattlemen.
It just takes money.
American Prairie buys ranches from willing sellers, as American as apple pie and baseball. Its none of you gdamn business who a private landowner decides to sell to. If they want to pass their ranches on to their kids, sell it to the hippies down the street, sell it to the Federal Government, or sell to a non profit...not any of your concern.
AP is also great about public access, they allow hunting and allow access across their property to formerly landlocked BLM, State, and other Federal lands.
Also, the BLM leases typically go with the property, they aren't directly purchased but rather continue with property that AP purchases.
The bison were approved for grazing on AP BLM leases, because guess what? The Republicans in Montana were so "smart" they fell for the DOL to classify bison as livestock in Montana? Why? So the DOL could kill the bison that leave Yellowstone Park.
That has consequences and the brain trust that is the Republican Party in Montana should have been smart enough to realize what those consequences would be. The BLM is simply allowing the state classified livestock (bison) that AP owns, to graze as livestock on their BLM leases that were tied to the ranches they legally purchased.
Please provide proof of this year round bison grazing the BLM is allowing...I say you're full of chit, as per always.
Oh, and here's a bull my Dad shot on AP property that they acquired from a poaching scumbag from Minneapolis. A year prior, this property was off limits to the public, I'm very happy AP purchased it. My family and I donate to AP every year, and they're the best thing that's ever happened to the breaks. Great organization that does great work.
As to the tribes expanding their bison herds, I hope they continue what they're already doing. Again, I have ZERO issue with tribes doing what they want on their reservations, its NONE of anyone's business but theirs. If they can corral some Federal money to continue to expand their herds, I think that's great. No different than other ranchers receiving subsidized grazing and farming.
Tester and pelosi et al appreciate your support. Shîteating scumbag that you are.
Ah yes....but....there is a money laundering outfit called the American Prairie Reserve that is buying private property along with huge BLM leases with money swindled from retarded bleeding heart types from the coast.
Hell...they just got allowed to graze all year long by the BLM. NO for the cattlemen.
It just takes money.
American Prairie buys ranches from willing sellers, as American as apple pie and baseball. Its none of you gdamn business who a private landowner decides to sell to. If they want to pass their ranches on to their kids, sell it to the hippies down the street, sell it to the Federal Government, or sell to a non profit...not any of your concern.
AP is also great about public access, they allow hunting and allow access across their property to formerly landlocked BLM, State, and other Federal lands.
Also, the BLM leases typically go with the property, they aren't directly purchased but rather continue with property that AP purchases.
The bison were approved for grazing on AP BLM leases, because guess what? The Republicans in Montana were so "smart" they fell for the DOL to classify bison as livestock in Montana? Why? So the DOL could kill the bison that leave Yellowstone Park.
That has consequences and the brain trust that is the Republican Party in Montana should have been smart enough to realize what those consequences would be. The BLM is simply allowing the state classified livestock (bison) that AP owns, to graze as livestock on their BLM leases that were tied to the ranches they legally purchased.
Please provide proof of this year round bison grazing the BLM is allowing...I say you're full of chit, as per always.
Oh, and here's a bull my Dad shot on AP property that they acquired from a poaching scumbag from Minneapolis. A year prior, this property was off limits to the public, I'm very happy AP purchased it. My family and I donate to AP every year, and they're the best thing that's ever happened to the breaks. Great organization that does great work.
As to the tribes expanding their bison herds, I hope they continue what they're already doing. Again, I have ZERO issue with tribes doing what they want on their reservations, its NONE of anyone's business but theirs. If they can corral some Federal money to continue to expand their herds, I think that's great. No different than other ranchers receiving subsidized grazing and farming.
Tester and pelosi et al appreciate your support. Shîteating scumbag that you are.
Cry me a river...whining do-nothing mouth breather.
Out spend me with campaign contributions if you don't like Tester...get after it tuffie.
Predictions? 1. $25 million will balloon very quickly. 2. The released bison will be killed sooner than a sustainable herd can develop. 3. Even more money will be spent.
The Buffalo herds in NE BC seem to be working well, there is Natives hunting them and a draw system in place for BC residents. If contained, I'm not sure what environmental problems could arise from something that was here for thousands of years, but for a short time it was not.
A wilderness area where there is not much around for hundreds of miles is different than an area surrounded by private acres. And yea I’ve been over the Alcan Highway 14 times so I’ve seen how remote some areas in Canada are. I love it. Edk
A wilderness area where there is not much around for hundreds of miles is different than an area surrounded by private acres. And yea I’ve been over the Alcan Highway 14 times so I’ve seen how remote some areas in Canada are. I love it. Edk
Exactly^^^^ My friend owned a massive Buffalo ranch in NE BC, all properly fenced, never had a problem until the vandalism started, the cutting of his fences ruined him. By the time he discovered the vandalism it was too late, he needed to hire an airplane to find them, then spend a couple days herding them back to the claim. I don't think he ever found out exactly who was doing it, I will ask him when I see him.
Evidently Buffalo don't just stop and eat on the other side of the fence, but like walking or even running, which they can do all day.
So much info shared here is completely and horribly wrong.
Many tribes have restored bison herds and manage them well. Bison are heartier than cattle and eat about the same amount of grass, a little less actually. They reproduce at the same rates but often live longer. Brucellosis can be spread by cattle or bison just as easily and affects them similarly. That myth reminds me of some of the COVID BS we were told.
Threads like this remind me of the vast ignorance of boomers. No wonder they drove this country into the dirt.
Exactly! I'm aware of local regions where they are successfully restoring the bison herds and native grasses. I'm all in favor of restoring them on a much larger scale.
What a lot of those ignant-assed boomer comments are leaving out is that it was the US Govt and greedy buffalo hunters engaged in a genocidal war against the Indian tribes that nearly wiped out the great herds. As a matter of fact, in my early years, I lived just a few miles from where the last known eastern woodland buffalo was killed and it wasn't by an Indian. A dumbass hillbilly did it.
Oh my.
I guess bleeding hearts in Alaska too....
I'm the last person that anyone who knows me would describe as a bleeding heart.
Doing he right thing is the right thing to do. Restoring what was fuct up and can be restored is the right thing to do.
And by the way, there's an ongoing project to reintroduce woodland bison to the Kuskokwim valley. That's four wild roving herds up here. The other three are the plains version.
Ah yes....but....there is a money laundering outfit called the American Prairie Reserve that is buying private property along with huge BLM leases with money swindled from retarded bleeding heart types from the coast.
Hell...they just got allowed to graze all year long by the BLM. NO for the cattlemen.
It just takes money.
American Prairie buys ranches from willing sellers, as American as apple pie and baseball. Its none of you gdamn business who a private landowner decides to sell to. If they want to pass their ranches on to their kids, sell it to the hippies down the street, sell it to the Federal Government, or sell to a non profit...not any of your concern.
AP is also great about public access, they allow hunting and allow access across their property to formerly landlocked BLM, State, and other Federal lands.
Also, the BLM leases typically go with the property, they aren't directly purchased but rather continue with property that AP purchases.
The bison were approved for grazing on AP BLM leases, because guess what? The Republicans in Montana were so "smart" they fell for the DOL to classify bison as livestock in Montana? Why? So the DOL could kill the bison that leave Yellowstone Park.
That has consequences and the brain trust that is the Republican Party in Montana should have been smart enough to realize what those consequences would be. The BLM is simply allowing the state classified livestock (bison) that AP owns, to graze as livestock on their BLM leases that were tied to the ranches they legally purchased.
Please provide proof of this year round bison grazing the BLM is allowing...I say you're full of chit, as per always.
Oh, and here's a bull my Dad shot on AP property that they acquired from a poaching scumbag from Minneapolis. A year prior, this property was off limits to the public, I'm very happy AP purchased it. My family and I donate to AP every year, and they're the best thing that's ever happened to the breaks. Great organization that does great work.
As to the tribes expanding their bison herds, I hope they continue what they're already doing. Again, I have ZERO issue with tribes doing what they want on their reservations, its NONE of anyone's business but theirs. If they can corral some Federal money to continue to expand their herds, I think that's great. No different than other ranchers receiving subsidized grazing and farming.
Tester and pelosi et al appreciate your support. Shîteating scumbag that you are.
Cry me a river...whining do-nothing mouth breather.
Out spend me with campaign contributions if you don't like Tester...get after it tuffie.
I doubt my SS disability checks would allow me to outspend you. You showed your hand by admitting it’s all about money in your perspective anyways.
I can do more good exposing you and your BHA masters to folks that don’t know what you’re really about.
Fwiw, how much money spent and where by the Rez’s in general really is our business because most of it is tax money taken from us and given to them. i.e. “corralling Fed funds” in addition to what’s given to them already in your parlance. I like to know where the money stolen from me is spent. Ymmv.
Folks like yourself are why Bill Gates and the chicoms are buying up American farmland. Let alone our own homegrown commie scumbags.
So much info shared here is completely and horribly wrong.
Many tribes have restored bison herds and manage them well. Bison are heartier than cattle and eat about the same amount of grass, a little less actually. They reproduce at the same rates but often live longer. Brucellosis can be spread by cattle or bison just as easily and affects them similarly. That myth reminds me of some of the COVID BS we were told.
Threads like this remind me of the vast ignorance of boomers. No wonder they drove this country into the dirt.
Exactly! I'm aware of local regions where they are successfully restoring the bison herds and native grasses. I'm all in favor of restoring them on a much larger scale.
What a lot of those ignant-assed boomer comments are leaving out is that it was the US Govt and greedy buffalo hunters engaged in a genocidal war against the Indian tribes that nearly wiped out the great herds. As a matter of fact, in my early years, I lived just a few miles from where the last known eastern woodland buffalo was killed and it wasn't by an Indian. A dumbass hillbilly did it.
Oh my.
I guess bleeding hearts in Alaska too....
I'm the last person that anyone who knows me would describe as a bleeding heart.
Doing he right thing is the right thing to do. Restoring what was fuct up is the right thing to do.
How far back do you want to go as far with that? Should the stronger tribes cede the land given to them by the US to the tribes they displaced? Should Spain be on the hook for reparations to central and South America?
The American Indians were treated very damn well when taken into historical context.
Ah yes....but....there is a money laundering outfit called the American Prairie Reserve that is buying private property along with huge BLM leases with money swindled from retarded bleeding heart types from the coast.
Hell...they just got allowed to graze all year long by the BLM. NO for the cattlemen.
It just takes money.
American Prairie buys ranches from willing sellers, as American as apple pie and baseball. Its none of you gdamn business who a private landowner decides to sell to. If they want to pass their ranches on to their kids, sell it to the hippies down the street, sell it to the Federal Government, or sell to a non profit...not any of your concern.
AP is also great about public access, they allow hunting and allow access across their property to formerly landlocked BLM, State, and other Federal lands.
Also, the BLM leases typically go with the property, they aren't directly purchased but rather continue with property that AP purchases.
The bison were approved for grazing on AP BLM leases, because guess what? The Republicans in Montana were so "smart" they fell for the DOL to classify bison as livestock in Montana? Why? So the DOL could kill the bison that leave Yellowstone Park.
That has consequences and the brain trust that is the Republican Party in Montana should have been smart enough to realize what those consequences would be. The BLM is simply allowing the state classified livestock (bison) that AP owns, to graze as livestock on their BLM leases that were tied to the ranches they legally purchased.
Please provide proof of this year round bison grazing the BLM is allowing...I say you're full of chit, as per always.
Oh, and here's a bull my Dad shot on AP property that they acquired from a poaching scumbag from Minneapolis. A year prior, this property was off limits to the public, I'm very happy AP purchased it. My family and I donate to AP every year, and they're the best thing that's ever happened to the breaks. Great organization that does great work.
As to the tribes expanding their bison herds, I hope they continue what they're already doing. Again, I have ZERO issue with tribes doing what they want on their reservations, its NONE of anyone's business but theirs. If they can corral some Federal money to continue to expand their herds, I think that's great. No different than other ranchers receiving subsidized grazing and farming.
Tester and pelosi et al appreciate your support. Shîteating scumbag that you are.
Cry me a river...whining do-nothing mouth breather.
Out spend me with campaign contributions if you don't like Tester...get after it tuffie.
I doubt my SS disability checks would allow me to outspend you. You showed your hand by admitting it’s all about money in your perspective anyways.
I can do more good exposing you and your BHA masters to folks that don’t know what you’re really about.
Fwiw, how much money spent and where by the Rez’s in general really is our business because most of it is tax money taken from us and given to them. i.e. “corralling Fed funds” in addition to what’s given to them already in your parlance. I like to know where the money stolen from me is spent. Ymmv.
Folks like yourself are why Bill Gates and the chicoms are buying up American farmland. Let alone our own homegrown commie scumbags.
Why am I not surprised you're a recipient of a social program? The hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me.
Speaking of reviewing how our tax dollars are being spent, a review of SSI disability checks are way over due.
So much info shared here is completely and horribly wrong.
Many tribes have restored bison herds and manage them well. Bison are heartier than cattle and eat about the same amount of grass, a little less actually. They reproduce at the same rates but often live longer. Brucellosis can be spread by cattle or bison just as easily and affects them similarly. That myth reminds me of some of the COVID BS we were told.
Threads like this remind me of the vast ignorance of boomers. No wonder they drove this country into the dirt.
Exactly! I'm aware of local regions where they are successfully restoring the bison herds and native grasses. I'm all in favor of restoring them on a much larger scale.
What a lot of those ignant-assed boomer comments are leaving out is that it was the US Govt and greedy buffalo hunters engaged in a genocidal war against the Indian tribes that nearly wiped out the great herds. As a matter of fact, in my early years, I lived just a few miles from where the last known eastern woodland buffalo was killed and it wasn't by an Indian. A dumbass hillbilly did it.
Oh my.
I guess bleeding hearts in Alaska too....
I'm the last person that anyone who knows me would describe as a bleeding heart.
Doing he right thing is the right thing to do. Restoring what was fuct up and can be restored is the right thing to do.
And by the way, there's an ongoing project to reintroduce woodland bison to the Kuskokwim valley. That's four wild roving herds up here. The other three are the plains version.
I suspect that Buzzie or Callie don't know where Phillips County is......or that there is a BLM office in Lewsitown.
Hilarious...I'm not a move-in to Montana, 4th generation Montana Native.
When did you move to Montana?
Laffin'...
Pretty familiar with all things Montana including Phillips and Blaine County. My family hunted Bill Cowen's place for a lot of years as well as other South of Chinook in that Cleveland/Lloyd country.
Yet you are still so ignorant....even for a leftist.
I suspect that Buzzie or Callie don't know where Phillips County is......or that there is a BLM office in Lewsitown.
Hilarious...I'm not a move-in to Montana, 4th generation Montana Native.
When did you move to Montana?
Laffin'...
Pretty familiar with all things Montana including Phillips and Blaine County. My family hunted Bill Cowen's place for a lot of years as well as other South of Chinook in that Cleveland/Lloyd country.
Yet you are still so ignorant....even for a leftist.
So much info shared here is completely and horribly wrong.
Many tribes have restored bison herds and manage them well. Bison are heartier than cattle and eat about the same amount of grass, a little less actually. They reproduce at the same rates but often live longer. Brucellosis can be spread by cattle or bison just as easily and affects them similarly. That myth reminds me of some of the COVID BS we were told.
Threads like this remind me of the vast ignorance of boomers. No wonder they drove this country into the dirt.
Exactly! I'm aware of local regions where they are successfully restoring the bison herds and native grasses. I'm all in favor of restoring them on a much larger scale.
What a lot of those ignant-assed boomer comments are leaving out is that it was the US Govt and greedy buffalo hunters engaged in a genocidal war against the Indian tribes that nearly wiped out the great herds. As a matter of fact, in my early years, I lived just a few miles from where the last known eastern woodland buffalo was killed and it wasn't by an Indian. A dumbass hillbilly did it.
Oh my.
I guess bleeding hearts in Alaska too....
I'm the last person that anyone who knows me would describe as a bleeding heart.
Doing he right thing is the right thing to do. Restoring what was fuct up is the right thing to do.
How far back do you want to go as far with that? Should the stronger tribes cede the land given to them by the US to the tribes they displaced? Should Spain be on the hook for reparations to central and South America?
The American Indians were treated very damn well when taken into historical context.
You have funny notions about how you define being treated well. Does that include a long on-going attempts at genocidal extermination, broken treaties, dishonest dealings, starvation, stolen lands?
As for Spain and South America, that's between them.
I'm somewhat lacking in knowledge on buffalo and Indians restoration of them. Many tribes? Which ones? How many buffalo involved with each? How much acreage involved with each of those restorations? Free ranging? Documentation on how much buffalo eat compared to cattle? Documentation on reproductive rate comparisons.
Not saying your wrong or being a smart ass. I just don't know and your statements, if true, need documentation from reputable sources.
What I do know is that the myth about the Indians being great stewards of nature is just that-- a myth.
I have two within a short drive of me and know of many others. If you do a little homework you'll find the info you seek. Some acreages are quite small actually and are stocked accordingly. Look up what an AUM is she you can find out a lot there as well. They have pretty much every animal you can think of figured out for how much it will graze. There are lots and lots of bison herds all over North America that do just fine. Yet this one will supposedly end mankind or destroy local beef markets, producers etc? Pick a new argument if you got something against Buffalo. Your talking points here have lost time and again and have been proven time and again to be unfounded. Sure you could probably cherry pick and find a case somewhere to back your claim, but isolated instances don't show a trend.
I won't argue the stewards of the land part you mentioned.
Just because you don't know something doesn't mean it's someone else's duty to teach you. You possess the power and means to learn all on your own.
You made some BIG claims that, for all I know, could've been fabricated by you to embellish a non valid point. Not my duty to verify your claims. You want to make significant claims about an issue it's on you to provide documentation to justify your claims. Don't expect others to waste time trying to verify your position--that's on you. The only talking points I raised were to ask for verification on YOUR unsupported claims that you have still not provided ANY support for. Where are the links to verify your claims? Or are you simply talking out your a$$? I have nothing against buffalo. What made you think that I do?
I suspect that Buzzie or Callie don't know where Phillips County is......or that there is a BLM office in Lewsitown.
Hilarious...I'm not a move-in to Montana, 4th generation Montana Native.
When did you move to Montana?
Laffin'...
Pretty familiar with all things Montana including Phillips and Blaine County. My family hunted Bill Cowen's place for a lot of years as well as other South of Chinook in that Cleveland/Lloyd country.
Yet you are still so ignorant....even for a leftist.
Did you Google year round buffalo grazing yet?
I've forgotten more about BLM leases than you'll ever know.
So much info shared here is completely and horribly wrong.
Many tribes have restored bison herds and manage them well. Bison are heartier than cattle and eat about the same amount of grass, a little less actually. They reproduce at the same rates but often live longer. Brucellosis can be spread by cattle or bison just as easily and affects them similarly. That myth reminds me of some of the COVID BS we were told.
Threads like this remind me of the vast ignorance of boomers. No wonder they drove this country into the dirt.
Exactly! I'm aware of local regions where they are successfully restoring the bison herds and native grasses. I'm all in favor of restoring them on a much larger scale.
What a lot of those ignant-assed boomer comments are leaving out is that it was the US Govt and greedy buffalo hunters engaged in a genocidal war against the Indian tribes that nearly wiped out the great herds. As a matter of fact, in my early years, I lived just a few miles from where the last known eastern woodland buffalo was killed and it wasn't by an Indian. A dumbass hillbilly did it.
Oh my.
I guess bleeding hearts in Alaska too....
I'm the last person that anyone who knows me would describe as a bleeding heart.
Doing he right thing is the right thing to do. Restoring what was fuct up is the right thing to do.
How far back do you want to go as far with that? Should the stronger tribes cede the land given to them by the US to the tribes they displaced? Should Spain be on the hook for reparations to central and South America?
The American Indians were treated very damn well when taken into historical context.
You have funny notions about how you define being treated well. Does that include a long on-going attempts at genocidal extermination, broken treaties, dishonest dealings, starvation, stolen lands?
As for Spain and South America, that's between them.
Historically, how many nations have conquered peoples then, set them up as “sovereign nations” yet subsidize them at the cost of the citizens, giving them special rights, protections, and benefits? With no requirements or oversight?
I feel bad for the kids born into that life, but a lot of folks are born into poverty and either make it or not. But they aren’t hampered by a stoneage culture that punishes their attempts at bettering themselves.
You can’t really separate “us” from “them” when talking Spanish conquest. They supplied the horse stock that allowed some tribes up here to take advantage of the others. In fact, by your reckoning the horse savvy tribes that whipped up on the others owe reparations. That was my point you didn’t address. Now those reparations, are they coming from the money we already give them, or are we on the hook by proxy?
So much info shared here is completely and horribly wrong.
Many tribes have restored bison herds and manage them well. Bison are heartier than cattle and eat about the same amount of grass, a little less actually. They reproduce at the same rates but often live longer. Brucellosis can be spread by cattle or bison just as easily and affects them similarly. That myth reminds me of some of the COVID BS we were told.
Threads like this remind me of the vast ignorance of boomers. No wonder they drove this country into the dirt.
Exactly! I'm aware of local regions where they are successfully restoring the bison herds and native grasses. I'm all in favor of restoring them on a much larger scale.
What a lot of those ignant-assed boomer comments are leaving out is that it was the US Govt and greedy buffalo hunters engaged in a genocidal war against the Indian tribes that nearly wiped out the great herds. As a matter of fact, in my early years, I lived just a few miles from where the last known eastern woodland buffalo was killed and it wasn't by an Indian. A dumbass hillbilly did it.
Oh my.
I guess bleeding hearts in Alaska too....
I'm the last person that anyone who knows me would describe as a bleeding heart.
Doing he right thing is the right thing to do. Restoring what was fuct up is the right thing to do.
How far back do you want to go as far with that? Should the stronger tribes cede the land given to them by the US to the tribes they displaced? Should Spain be on the hook for reparations to central and South America?
The American Indians were treated very damn well when taken into historical context.
You have funny notions about how you define being treated well. Does that include a long on-going attempts at genocidal extermination, broken treaties, dishonest dealings, starvation, stolen lands?
As for Spain and South America, that's between them.
I suspect that Buzzie or Callie don't know where Phillips County is......or that there is a BLM office in Lewsitown.
Hilarious...I'm not a move-in to Montana, 4th generation Montana Native.
When did you move to Montana?
Laffin'...
Pretty familiar with all things Montana including Phillips and Blaine County. My family hunted Bill Cowen's place for a lot of years as well as other South of Chinook in that Cleveland/Lloyd country.
Yet you are still so ignorant....even for a leftist.
Did you Google year round buffalo grazing yet?
I've forgotten more about BLM leases than you'll ever know.
Yeah...that just isn't the case.
Did you quit hunting Cowan when they went to gasp! Block Management?
AB2506: I think it was Roger Miller who warned "you can't roller skate in a Buffalo herd"! I foresee "problems" with Buffalo walking on people and hurting them, severely! Love to see me some Buffalo but not wanting to hit one with my vehicles. The "problems" that will arise from "vast herds of Buffalo" will harm cattle ranchers, farmers, and humans of all kinds. Some Buffalo, in some places, fine, but huge herds roaming the plains not such a good idea. Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
AB2506: I think it was Roger Miller who warned "you can't roller skate in a Buffalo herd"! I foresee "problems" with Buffalo walking on people and hurting them, severely! Love to see me some Buffalo but not wanting to hit one with my vehicles. The "problems" that will arise from "vast herds of Buffalo" will harm cattle ranchers, farmers, and humans of all kinds. Some Buffalo, in some places, fine, but huge herds roaming the plains not such a good idea. Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
Prezactly!! Introduced/free-ranging herds will end up where they are not wanted but exactly where they want to be. It's not at all far-fetched to wonder what an elementary school on the edge of town will do when school lets out at 3:30 and there's 400 bufflers bedded down all around the school??
you all realize the goal to this is the end of cattle ranching right. and the injuns are being used as pawns....for their own good we should have taken the indian wars further
You realize that this isn't the 'injuns' doing this to us all, right? It's the plain old European perverts running the nation. Old whitey don't care much about the fate of his kinsfolk.
in essence it is. this false romanticism of north American savages is rediculous. as I said, for their own good we should have taken the indian wars farther....much farther
The Rez here gets our money given to them for hay to disperse to the natives with critters. They outlay any locals for hay because it’s free money. Poor natives and blacks getting treated so badly. Cry me a river.Edk
I suspect that Buzzie or Callie don't know where Phillips County is......or that there is a BLM office in Lewsitown.
Hilarious...I'm not a move-in to Montana, 4th generation Montana Native.
When did you move to Montana?
Laffin'...
Pretty familiar with all things Montana including Phillips and Blaine County. My family hunted Bill Cowen's place for a lot of years as well as other South of Chinook in that Cleveland/Lloyd country.
Yet you are still so ignorant....even for a leftist.
Did you Google year round buffalo grazing yet?
I've forgotten more about BLM leases than you'll ever know.
Yeah...that just isn't the case.
Did you quit hunting Cowan when they went to gasp! Block Management?
That is the case if you honestly believe that year round cattle grazing isn't approved on BLM lands, including in the breaks. Try that google machine you're so proud of.
I hunted on Bill's before and after block. Well managed property with similar ideas/management to American Prairie.
The only cattle in the breaks over winter are escapees.
Next time I see Bill or Barb I will mention you think they are just like the APR.
I am sure that will please them immensely.
Wrong...keep looking, the breaks just isn't the CMR.
You'd think someone living near there would know these things.
Bill and Barb do manage a lot like AP, including buying up other properties as they hit the market. They also care an awful lot about wildlife, same as AP.
The only cattle in the breaks over winter are escapees.
Next time I see Bill or Barb I will mention you think they are just like the APR.
I am sure that will please them immensely.
Wrong...keep looking, the breaks just isn't the CMR.
You'd think someone living near there would know these things.
Bill and Barb do manage a lot like AP, including buying up other properties as they hit the market. They also care an awful lot about wildlife, same as AP.
The only cattle in the breaks over winter are escapees.
Next time I see Bill or Barb I will mention you think they are just like the APR.
I am sure that will please them immensely.
Wrong...keep looking, the breaks just isn't the CMR.
You'd think someone living near there would know these things.
Bill and Barb do manage a lot like AP, including buying up other properties as they hit the market. They also care an awful lot about wildlife, same as AP.
They aren't anything like you, thats a fact.
Who are they like?
For reference...
Their ranch management is very similar to Turners...only difference being the name of the livestock.
The only cattle in the breaks over winter are escapees.
Next time I see Bill or Barb I will mention you think they are just like the APR.
I am sure that will please them immensely.
Wrong...keep looking, the breaks just isn't the CMR.
You'd think someone living near there would know these things.
Bill and Barb do manage a lot like AP, including buying up other properties as they hit the market. They also care an awful lot about wildlife, same as AP.
They aren't anything like you, thats a fact.
Who are they like?
For reference...
Their ranch management is very similar to Turners...only difference being the name of the livestock.
The only cattle in the breaks over winter are escapees.
Next time I see Bill or Barb I will mention you think they are just like the APR.
I am sure that will please them immensely.
Wrong...keep looking, the breaks just isn't the CMR.
You'd think someone living near there would know these things.
Bill and Barb do manage a lot like AP, including buying up other properties as they hit the market. They also care an awful lot about wildlife, same as AP.
They aren't anything like you, thats a fact.
Who are they like?
For reference...
Their ranch management is very similar to Turners...only difference being the name of the livestock.
Jim, would the Cowan’s agree to be equated with Hanoi Jane and Ted Turner? I know some that hunted their ground but never did myself.
They would just love that shìt!
.
Sure they would, both understand stewardship, both have large ranches, both have good management plans, both acquire property when it's for sale from willing sellers.
Wayyyyyy more similarities than differences, other than the type of livestock. That's a fact.
For the record, how much time have you spent on AP property? Turners? Cowan's?
I've spent lots of time on all 3...all have similar management, damn near identical in their goals. Another fact.
Jim, would the Cowan’s agree to be equated with Hanoi Jane and Ted Turner? I know some that hunted their ground but never did myself.
They would just love that shìt!
.
Sure they would, both understand stewardship, both have large ranches, both have good management plans, both acquire property when it's for sale from willing sellers.
Wayyyyyy more similarities than differences, other than the type of livestock. That's a fact.
For the record, how much time have you spent on AP property? Turners? Cowan's?
I've spent lots of time on all 3...all have similar management, damn near identical in their goals. Another fact.
You are a typical leftist access limiter.
The APR couldn't pack Bill's saddle when it comes to stewardship.
Jim, would the Cowan’s agree to be equated with Hanoi Jane and Ted Turner? I know some that hunted their ground but never did myself.
They would just love that shìt!
.
Sure they would, both understand stewardship, both have large ranches, both have good management plans, both acquire property when it's for sale from willing sellers.
Wayyyyyy more similarities than differences, other than the type of livestock. That's a fact.
For the record, how much time have you spent on AP property? Turners? Cowan's?
I've spent lots of time on all 3...all have similar management, damn near identical in their goals. Another fact.
You are a typical leftist access limiter.
The APR couldn't pack Bill's saddle when it comes to stewardship.
Go dream something else up.
Go sober up...drunk. Or have another swig, better yet.
American Prairie Group in Montana is buying up ranches and taking out fences to restore Bison herds. Funded by rich liberals. Thousand of acres of ranch land put out of production. Just another program to make the Indians feel like victims.
The Buffalo Commons is a conceptual proposal to create a vast nature preserve by returning 139,000 square miles (360,000 km2) of the drier portion of the Great Plains to native prairie, and by reintroducing the American bison ("buffalo"), that once grazed the shortgrass prairie. The proposal would affect ten states: Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Texas, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, and Kansas.[1]
History The proposal originated with Frank J. Popper and Deborah Popper, who argued in a 1987 essay[2] that the current use of the drier parts of the plains is not sustainable. The authors viewed the historic European-American settlement of the Plains States as hampered by lack of understanding of the ecology and an example of the "Tragedy of the Commons".[3] Many people in potentially affected states resisted the concept during the 1990s.[4]
Cause The Poppers note that periodic disasters such as the Dust Bowl and continuing significant population loss over the last 80 years show the area is not sustainable for large-scale farming. They note that the rural Plains has lost a third of its population since 1920.
Jim, would the Cowan’s agree to be equated with Hanoi Jane and Ted Turner? I know some that hunted their ground but never did myself.
They would just love that shìt!
.
Sure they would, both understand stewardship, both have large ranches, both have good management plans, both acquire property when it's for sale from willing sellers.
Wayyyyyy more similarities than differences, other than the type of livestock. That's a fact.
For the record, how much time have you spent on AP property? Turners? Cowan's?
I've spent lots of time on all 3...all have similar management, damn near identical in their goals. Another fact.
You are a typical leftist access limiter.
The APR couldn't pack Bill's saddle when it comes to stewardship.
Go dream something else up.
Go sober up...drunk. Or have another swig, better yet.
So you think Cowans are access limiting greedy pricks who just swindle eastern donors to gain an advantage in land development deals in Western Montana.
American Prairie Group in Montana is buying up ranches and taking out fences to restore Bison herds. Funded by rich liberals. Thousand of acres of ranch land put out of production. Just another program to make the Indians feel like victims.
American Prairie Group in Montana is buying up ranches and taking out fences to restore Bison herds. Funded by rich liberals. Thousand of acres of ranch land put out of production. Just another program to make the Indians feel like victims.
American Prairie Group in Montana is buying up ranches and taking out fences to restore Bison herds. Funded by rich liberals. Thousand of acres of ranch land put out of production. Just another program to make the Indians feel like victims.
Jim, would the Cowan’s agree to be equated with Hanoi Jane and Ted Turner? I know some that hunted their ground but never did myself.
They would just love that shìt!
.
Sure they would, both understand stewardship, both have large ranches, both have good management plans, both acquire property when it's for sale from willing sellers.
Wayyyyyy more similarities than differences, other than the type of livestock. That's a fact.
For the record, how much time have you spent on AP property? Turners? Cowan's?
I've spent lots of time on all 3...all have similar management, damn near identical in their goals. Another fact.
You are a typical leftist access limiter.
The APR couldn't pack Bill's saddle when it comes to stewardship.
Go dream something else up.
Go sober up...drunk. Or have another swig, better yet.
So you think Cowans are access limiting greedy pricks who just swindle eastern donors to gain an advantage in land development deals in Western Montana.
You think AP limits access?
Laffin'...
How many acres does AP have enrolled in block?
How many previously landlocked acres did AP just open up with the blue ridge acquisition?
American Prairie Group in Montana is buying up ranches and taking out fences to restore Bison herds. Funded by rich liberals. Thousand of acres of ranch land put out of production. Just another program to make the Indians feel like victims.
Jim, would the Cowan’s agree to be equated with Hanoi Jane and Ted Turner? I know some that hunted their ground but never did myself.
They would just love that shìt!
.
Sure they would, both understand stewardship, both have large ranches, both have good management plans, both acquire property when it's for sale from willing sellers.
Wayyyyyy more similarities than differences, other than the type of livestock. That's a fact.
For the record, how much time have you spent on AP property? Turners? Cowan's?
I've spent lots of time on all 3...all have similar management, damn near identical in their goals. Another fact.
You are a typical leftist access limiter.
The APR couldn't pack Bill's saddle when it comes to stewardship.
Go dream something else up.
Go sober up...drunk. Or have another swig, better yet.
So you think Cowans are access limiting greedy pricks who just swindle eastern donors to gain an advantage in land development deals in Western Montana.
So you know...AP has just shy of 80,000 acres enrolled in block management.
Jim, would the Cowan’s agree to be equated with Hanoi Jane and Ted Turner? I know some that hunted their ground but never did myself.
They would just love that shìt!
.
Sure they would, both understand stewardship, both have large ranches, both have good management plans, both acquire property when it's for sale from willing sellers.
Wayyyyyy more similarities than differences, other than the type of livestock. That's a fact.
For the record, how much time have you spent on AP property? Turners? Cowan's?
I've spent lots of time on all 3...all have similar management, damn near identical in their goals. Another fact.
You are a typical leftist access limiter.
The APR couldn't pack Bill's saddle when it comes to stewardship.
Go dream something else up.
Go sober up...drunk. Or have another swig, better yet.
So you think Cowans are access limiting greedy pricks who just swindle eastern donors to gain an advantage in land development deals in Western Montana.
So you know...AP has just shy of 80,000 acres enrolled in block management.
Taxonomically I know they are Bison bison but to most of history until a few years ago they are Buffalo! I'll start calling them Bison when they quit calling Burrowing Ground Squirrels or Cynomys Prairie Dogs; Jack Rabbits (they are technically hares); and Prairie Grouse as Prairie Chickens. Then there's the shaky element of calling Pronghorn an antelope and Mountain Goats are much more kin to antelope.
This sudden elitist BS to correct everyone who uses the term Bison here in North America has swallowed hook and sinker the wokeism of the moment.
Jim, would the Cowan’s agree to be equated with Hanoi Jane and Ted Turner? I know some that hunted their ground but never did myself.
They would just love that shìt!
.
Sure they would, both understand stewardship, both have large ranches, both have good management plans, both acquire property when it's for sale from willing sellers.
Wayyyyyy more similarities than differences, other than the type of livestock. That's a fact.
For the record, how much time have you spent on AP property? Turners? Cowan's?
I've spent lots of time on all 3...all have similar management, damn near identical in their goals. Another fact.
You are a typical leftist access limiter.
The APR couldn't pack Bill's saddle when it comes to stewardship.
Go dream something else up.
Go sober up...drunk. Or have another swig, better yet.
So you think Cowans are access limiting greedy pricks who just swindle eastern donors to gain an advantage in land development deals in Western Montana.
So you know...AP has just shy of 80,000 acres enrolled in block management.
Jim, would the Cowan’s agree to be equated with Hanoi Jane and Ted Turner? I know some that hunted their ground but never did myself.
They would just love that shìt!
.
Sure they would, both understand stewardship, both have large ranches, both have good management plans, both acquire property when it's for sale from willing sellers.
Wayyyyyy more similarities than differences, other than the type of livestock. That's a fact.
For the record, how much time have you spent on AP property? Turners? Cowan's?
I've spent lots of time on all 3...all have similar management, damn near identical in their goals. Another fact.
You are a typical leftist access limiter.
The APR couldn't pack Bill's saddle when it comes to stewardship.
Go dream something else up.
Go sober up...drunk. Or have another swig, better yet.
So you think Cowans are access limiting greedy pricks who just swindle eastern donors to gain an advantage in land development deals in Western Montana.
You think AP limits access?
Laffin'...
How many acres does AP have enrolled in block?
How many previously landlocked acres did AP just open up with the blue ridge acquisition?
Jim, would the Cowan’s agree to be equated with Hanoi Jane and Ted Turner? I know some that hunted their ground but never did myself.
They would just love that shìt!
.
Sure they would, both understand stewardship, both have large ranches, both have good management plans, both acquire property when it's for sale from willing sellers.
Wayyyyyy more similarities than differences, other than the type of livestock. That's a fact.
For the record, how much time have you spent on AP property? Turners? Cowan's?
I've spent lots of time on all 3...all have similar management, damn near identical in their goals. Another fact.
You are a typical leftist access limiter.
The APR couldn't pack Bill's saddle when it comes to stewardship.
Go dream something else up.
Go sober up...drunk. Or have another swig, better yet.
So you think Cowans are access limiting greedy pricks who just swindle eastern donors to gain an advantage in land development deals in Western Montana.
So you know...AP has just shy of 80,000 acres enrolled in block management.
Access limiting you say?
What a joke you are.
How many do they own, in total?
You too ignorant to do your own research?
They own 121,000 acres....80,000 open under block. The remainder also allows public hunting under a lottery system.
Last I inquired, they will be adding additional acres to block.
Any more questions you're too lazy to find on your own?
They're easy folks to talk with about hunting opportunities, give them a call.
Better yet, make a donation to them, which reminds me...about time to send them another check.
Taxonomically I know they are Bison bison but to most of history until a few years ago they are Buffalo! I'll start calling them Bison when they quit calling Burrowing Ground Squirrels or Cynomys Prairie Dogs; Jack Rabbits (they are technically hares); and Prairie Grouse as Prairie Chickens. Then there's the shaky element of calling Pronghorn an antelope and Mountain Goats are much more kin to antelope.
This sudden elitist BS to correct everyone who uses the term Buffalo here in North America has swallowed hook and sinker the wokeism of the moment.
Jim, would the Cowan’s agree to be equated with Hanoi Jane and Ted Turner? I know some that hunted their ground but never did myself.
They would just love that shìt!
.
Sure they would, both understand stewardship, both have large ranches, both have good management plans, both acquire property when it's for sale from willing sellers.
Wayyyyyy more similarities than differences, other than the type of livestock. That's a fact.
For the record, how much time have you spent on AP property? Turners? Cowan's?
I've spent lots of time on all 3...all have similar management, damn near identical in their goals. Another fact.
You are a typical leftist access limiter.
The APR couldn't pack Bill's saddle when it comes to stewardship.
Go dream something else up.
Go sober up...drunk. Or have another swig, better yet.
So you think Cowans are access limiting greedy pricks who just swindle eastern donors to gain an advantage in land development deals in Western Montana.
So you know...AP has just shy of 80,000 acres enrolled in block management.
Access limiting you say?
What a joke you are.
You ever see how it's implemented?
Go lay down.
Yes, most of it is type 1 and type 2...depends on the ranch.
Have another swig.
Oh, and as for other recreation no permission required in most of it.
There was NEVER 60 million bison in all of North America. Not even close. Tops 10 million and that includes the eastern population. Maybe they should focus on restoring the now extinct eastern woods bison--I think a herd would look good hanging out in New Jersey.
What kind of "indigenous knowledge" do the Injuns have--they're 6 generations removed from making a living off bison.
What "state owned" land does the Feds manage? I've never heard of such a thing here in the interior west.
There ain't much land in the Midwest that isn't privately owned--25 mil won't buy enough land to support 500 bison.......
The City of Fort Collins, Larimer County, and Colorado State University have developed Brucellosis free bison. They have stripped out the gene (or alleles) that allowed the Brucellosis bacteria to be carried by the bison. The city and county each own roughly 10k adjacent to one another totaling 20k of short grass prairie. There are currently about a dozen of these "genetically modified" bison on a 1000 acre enclosure on the city/county open space with the plan to introduce more and allow them to reproduce.
They are now up to 54 head on 2700 acres it appears.
Just read the, "Why It Matters" section on the American Prairie website and it smells like Ecoweenies to me.
Apparently, all the humans, ranchers and cattle make up 96% of all mammals on the planet and the rest are heading into extinction. Climate Change is gonna KILL US ALL, was an enlightening paragraph. How many Sierra Club and other anti-hunting animal activists sit on the staff of this organization? It reads like the same BS story liberals keep shoving on us and nobody enjoys reading.
The Ken Burns awards are hilarious.
You Ranchers and your cattle need to be rounded up and shot dead to stop all of this climate change! Time to round up Jim and Sammo to the cattle cars along with their cattle to be decarbonized and buried under all that grass to keep their carbon properly contained.
Oh and no lead bolts are allowed and the wolves and other predators are off limits for hunting. And hunters, look out for hikers and other campers, in case you've never seen one or 2 out hunting. Hmm...
Nothing about windmills yet, but biodiversity is listed so its all legit!
ANNNNNND the best part!........It all started with the efforts of the WWF! The WWF loves hunters, do they not?
Does the APR have any foreign investors or is it wholly American owned?
I'm betting that was "missed" for a reason....but idk.
I'm stupid.
Fair bet that among the biggest “American “ investors are shell companies for foreign interests.
Hmmm
I'm sure it is on the "up and up."
Given the money involved, i’m sure it’s “legal”. Hanoi Jane and her crowd surely have the funds have the firms on retainer to proofread their shît.
Funny though, the FAQ on their website doesn’t include any questions about their funding. But s Does say they (and I quote from their website) “choose to fully pay all property taxes”
Does the APR have any foreign investors or is it wholly American owned?
I'm betting that was "missed" for a reason....but idk.
I'm stupid.
Fair bet that among the biggest “American “ investors are shell companies for foreign interests.
Hmmm
I'm sure it is on the "up and up."
Given the money involved, i’m sure it’s “legal”. Hanoi Jane and her crowd surely have the funds have the firms on retainer to proofread their shît.
Funny though, the FAQ on their website doesn’t include any questions about their funding. But s Does say they (and I quote from their website) “choose to fully pay all property taxes”
Just read the, "Why It Matters" section on the American Prairie website and it smells like Ecoweenies to me.
Apparently, all the humans, ranchers and cattle make up 96% of all mammals on the planet and the rest are heading into extinction. Climate Change is gonna KILL US ALL, was an enlightening paragraph. How many Sierra Club and other anti-hunting animal activists sit on the staff of this organization? It reads like the same BS story liberals keep shoving on us and nobody enjoys reading.
The Ken Burns awards are hilarious.
You Ranchers and your cattle need to be rounded up and shot dead to stop all of this climate change! Time to round up Jim and Sammo to the cattle cars along with their cattle to be decarbonized and buried under all that grass to keep their carbon properly contained.
Oh and no lead bolts are allowed and the wolves and other predators are off limits for hunting. And hunters, look out for hikers and other campers, in case you've never seen one or 2 out hunting. Hmm...
Nothing about windmills yet, but biodiversity is listed so its all legit!
ANNNNNND the best part!........It all started with the efforts of the WWF! The WWF loves hunters, do they not?
Whoa something smells funky here...
Yup.
Them and BHA are all about hunters….. it’s all in the small print.
Especially since he thinks BCHA is about increased accessibility for hunting and not an exclusionary organization for all but a wealthy few.
You take up more mammal space than most Jim, I think it's time you crawl under the grass to stop those size fifteen carbon footprints you're leaving everywhere!
Those "wealthy few" use the same stupid words and it isn't hard to figure out who is running these land buying groups.
I doubt my SS disability checks would allow me to outspend you.
Figured you for a .gov leach.
At the very least I’ve never changed my handle and have met and interacted with other members. None of whom have judged me btw for where my checks came from
I doubt my SS disability checks would allow me to outspend you.
Figured you for a .gov leach.
At the very least I’ve never changed my handle and have met and interacted with other members. None of whom have judged me btw for where my checks came from
Who knows? Reading comprehension, higher level thinking and reading retention have literally disappeared.
I know it’s wrong, but baiting and smacking retards on here makes me smile. Even (especially?) when they don’t even realize they’ve just pooped their pants.
Montana sure as hell is getting a lot of the wrong interests lately.
Pray you never have a popular TV show like Yellowstone aired, next thing you know you'll have millions of do-gooders, coming to save you from your carbon problems.
Montana sure as hell is getting a lot of the wrong interests lately.
Pray you never have a popular TV show like Yellowstone aired, next thing you know you'll have millions of do-gooders, coming to save you from your carbon problems.
Hope not, or MT will be overrun with transplants like gruff.
Montana sure as hell is getting a lot of the wrong interests lately.
Pray you never have a popular TV show like Yellowstone aired, next thing you know you'll have millions of do-gooders, coming to save you from your carbon problems.
Hope not, or MT will be overrun with transplants like gruff.
Green decoy groups will continue to use outdoorsmen to fund the fight against outdoorsmen.
The mindset of a career government employee is directly in line with this, but don’t worry, he is here to help. Lol
If he says he doesn’t know, or that the answer is no, then all a guy needs to do is get the minutes of pertinent meetings and post the info to prove him a liar.
Green decoy groups will continue to use outdoorsmen to fund the fight against outdoorsmen.
The mindset of a career government employee is directly in line with this, but don’t worry, he is here to help. Lol
If he says he doesn’t know, or that the answer is no, then all a guy needs to do is get the minutes of pertinent meetings and post the info to prove him a liar.
Green decoy groups will continue to use outdoorsmen to fund the fight against outdoorsmen.
The mindset of a career government employee is directly in line with this, but don’t worry, he is here to help. Lol
If he says he doesn’t know, or that the answer is no, then all a guy needs to do is get the minutes of pertinent meetings and post the info to prove him a liar.
Green decoy groups will continue to use outdoorsmen to fund the fight against outdoorsmen.
The mindset of a career government employee is directly in line with this, but don’t worry, he is here to help. Lol
If he says he doesn’t know, or that the answer is no, then all a guy needs to do is get the minutes of pertinent meetings and post the info to prove him a liar.
Green decoy groups will continue to use outdoorsmen to fund the fight against outdoorsmen.
The mindset of a career government employee is directly in line with this, but don’t worry, he is here to help. Lol
If he says he doesn’t know, or that the answer is no, then all a guy needs to do is get the minutes of pertinent meetings and post the info to prove him a liar.
Green decoy groups will continue to use outdoorsmen to fund the fight against outdoorsmen.
The mindset of a career government employee is directly in line with this, but don’t worry, he is here to help. Lol
If he says he doesn’t know, or that the answer is no, then all a guy needs to do is get the minutes of pertinent meetings and post the info to prove him a liar.
Green decoy groups will continue to use outdoorsmen to fund the fight against outdoorsmen.
The mindset of a career government employee is directly in line with this, but don’t worry, he is here to help. Lol
If he says he doesn’t know, or that the answer is no, then all a guy needs to do is get the minutes of pertinent meetings and post the info to prove him a liar.
American Prairie reads exactly like a Green decoy group!
I'll make a prediction on behalf of your beloved green group and what they will be putting out for future communication: "Hunting will prohibited until further notice to give the biodiversity a chance to be reestablished, thank you for your cooperation."
Green decoy groups will continue to use outdoorsmen to fund the fight against outdoorsmen.
The mindset of a career government employee is directly in line with this, but don’t worry, he is here to help. Lol
If he says he doesn’t know, or that the answer is no, then all a guy needs to do is get the minutes of pertinent meetings and post the info to prove him a liar.
Green decoy groups will continue to use outdoorsmen to fund the fight against outdoorsmen.
The mindset of a career government employee is directly in line with this, but don’t worry, he is here to help. Lol
If he says he doesn’t know, or that the answer is no, then all a guy needs to do is get the minutes of pertinent meetings and post the info to prove him a liar.
Green decoy groups will continue to use outdoorsmen to fund the fight against outdoorsmen.
The mindset of a career government employee is directly in line with this, but don’t worry, he is here to help. Lol
If he says he doesn’t know, or that the answer is no, then all a guy needs to do is get the minutes of pertinent meetings and post the info to prove him a liar.
American Prairie reads exactly like a Green decoy group!
I'll make a prediction on behalf of your beloved green group and what they will be putting out for future communication: "Hunting will prohibited until further notice to give the biodiversity a chance to be reestablished, thank you for your cooperation."
80,000 acres open to hunting is what I read. No permission required for other recreation, another thing I read. No permission needed to cross AP property to get to other public lands, read that too.
Green decoy groups will continue to use outdoorsmen to fund the fight against outdoorsmen.
The mindset of a career government employee is directly in line with this, but don’t worry, he is here to help. Lol
If he says he doesn’t know, or that the answer is no, then all a guy needs to do is get the minutes of pertinent meetings and post the info to prove him a liar.
Green decoy groups will continue to use outdoorsmen to fund the fight against outdoorsmen.
The mindset of a career government employee is directly in line with this, but don’t worry, he is here to help. Lol
If he says he doesn’t know, or that the answer is no, then all a guy needs to do is get the minutes of pertinent meetings and post the info to prove him a liar.
American Prairie reads exactly like a Green decoy group!
I'll make a prediction on behalf of your beloved green group and what they will be putting out for future communication: "Hunting will prohibited until further notice to give the biodiversity a chance to be reestablished, thank you for your cooperation."
80,000 acres open to hunting is what I read. No permission required for other recreation, another thing I read. No permission needed to cross AP property to get to other public lands, read that too.
Green decoy groups will continue to use outdoorsmen to fund the fight against outdoorsmen.
The mindset of a career government employee is directly in line with this, but don’t worry, he is here to help. Lol
If he says he doesn’t know, or that the answer is no, then all a guy needs to do is get the minutes of pertinent meetings and post the info to prove him a liar.
American Prairie reads exactly like a Green decoy group!
I'll make a prediction on behalf of your beloved green group and what they will be putting out for future communication: "Hunting will prohibited until further notice to give the biodiversity a chance to be reestablished, thank you for your cooperation."
80,000 acres open to hunting is what I read. No permission required for other recreation, another thing I read. No permission needed to cross AP property to get to other public lands, read that too.
I didn't read how long...
Perpetuity....you'll be worm chit before they stop allowing hunting and public access.
Lmao. So you carry their water till questions you don’t want to answer come up.
Color me surprised.
If you weren’t a bitch you’d have deferred the questions to their website to begin with. Instead of puffing up.
I’m glad they still are using putzes like you to spread the gospel. Soon Enough they’re going to invest in pr guys that’ll be able to fake the funk better than you did.
Green decoy groups will continue to use outdoorsmen to fund the fight against outdoorsmen.
The mindset of a career government employee is directly in line with this, but don’t worry, he is here to help. Lol
If he says he doesn’t know, or that the answer is no, then all a guy needs to do is get the minutes of pertinent meetings and post the info to prove him a liar.
American Prairie reads exactly like a Green decoy group!
I'll make a prediction on behalf of your beloved green group and what they will be putting out for future communication: "Hunting will prohibited until further notice to give the biodiversity a chance to be reestablished, thank you for your cooperation."
80,000 acres open to hunting is what I read. No permission required for other recreation, another thing I read. No permission needed to cross AP property to get to other public lands, read that too.
I didn't read how long...
Perpetuity....you'll be worm chit before they stop allowing hunting and public access.
Green decoy groups will continue to use outdoorsmen to fund the fight against outdoorsmen.
The mindset of a career government employee is directly in line with this, but don’t worry, he is here to help. Lol
If he says he doesn’t know, or that the answer is no, then all a guy needs to do is get the minutes of pertinent meetings and post the info to prove him a liar.
American Prairie reads exactly like a Green decoy group!
I'll make a prediction on behalf of your beloved green group and what they will be putting out for future communication: "Hunting will prohibited until further notice to give the biodiversity a chance to be reestablished, thank you for your cooperation."
80,000 acres open to hunting is what I read. No permission required for other recreation, another thing I read. No permission needed to cross AP property to get to other public lands, read that too.
I didn't read how long...
Perpetuity....you'll be worm chit before they stop allowing hunting and public access.
Stated where?
In their fundraising literature posted in New York City.
I step away for a bit and find Buzz taking you guys to the wood shed.
LOL
They didn't like the answers so they went to personal attacks and try to nit pick the answers apart. Lots of guys here don't want to find the answers themselves but instead believe their first impression is gospel even though they know nothing on the topic.
This is directed at whomever fits that bill. If it pisses you off then it's probably you.
I step away for a bit and find Buzz taking you guys to the wood shed.
LOL
They didn't like the answers so they went to personal attacks and try to nit pick the answers apart. Lots of guys here don't want to find the answers themselves but instead believe their first impression is gospel even though they know nothing on the topic.
This is directed at whomever fits that bill. If it pisses you off then it's probably you.
The end game for APR is removing ranch families and the surrounding communities from the landscape. None of the local towns wanted APR moving in and taking away the very life blood of their existence. The local support for APR was and continues to be negative.
The land is already saved and drought aside is in good shape. If the rancher's had destroyed it APR wouldn't find it so desirable.
For now APR knows that in order to have a chance in hell of continuing to buy up property and expand their end goal, for the time being they need to allow hunting. But obviously this is a relatively short game.
I for one would rather see families like Jim's make a go of it rather than a bunch of shady out of state money gobble it up under the guise of 'saving' it.
The end game for APR is removing ranch families and the surrounding communities from the landscape. None of the local towns wanted APR moving in and taking away the very life blood of their existence. The local support for APR was and continues to be negative.
The land is already saved and drought aside is in good shape. If the rancher's had destroyed it APR wouldn't find it so desirable.
For now APR knows that in order to have a chance in hell of continuing to buy up property and expand their end goal, for the time being they need to allow hunting. But obviously this is a relatively short game.
I for one would rather see families like Jim's make a go of it rather than a bunch of shady out of state money gobble it up under the guise of 'saving' it.
I think what Jim and others are doing is a beautiful thing.
But some people would rather empty the country side, come up for a week every fall, shoot a few animals, brag about it, and then run back to wherever it is they came from and slap each other on the back about what a fine job they've done.
I think what Jim and others are doing is a beautiful thing.
But some people would rather empty the country side, come up for a week every fall, shoot a few animals, brag about it, and then run back to wherever it is they came from and slap each other on the back about what a fine job they've done.
I step away for a bit and find Buzz taking you guys to the wood shed.
LOL
They didn't like the answers so they went to personal attacks and try to nit pick the answers apart. Lots of guys here don't want to find the answers themselves but instead believe their first impression is gospel even though they know nothing on the topic.
This is directed at whomever fits that bill. If it pisses you off then it's probably you.
Well, well...
What answers to questions were given?
None.
One of the first rules of honest debating is to make your case with verifiable facts that you can readily document. It's your argument and your responsibility to prove it with the facts you can readily provide. If you can't, or won't, do it then it's just opinion and not a valid part of the debate....surrender your argument.
So much info shared here is completely and horribly wrong.
Many tribes have restored bison herds and manage them well. Bison are heartier than cattle and eat about the same amount of grass, a little less actually. They reproduce at the same rates but often live longer. Brucellosis can be spread by cattle or bison just as easily and affects them similarly. That myth reminds me of some of the COVID BS we were told.
Threads like this remind me of the vast ignorance of boomers. No wonder they drove this country into the dirt.
Exactly! I'm aware of local regions where they are successfully restoring the bison herds and native grasses. I'm all in favor of restoring them on a much larger scale.
What a lot of those ignant-assed boomer comments are leaving out is that it was the US Govt and greedy buffalo hunters engaged in a genocidal war against the Indian tribes that nearly wiped out the great herds. As a matter of fact, in my early years, I lived just a few miles from where the last known eastern woodland buffalo was killed and it wasn't by an Indian. A dumbass hillbilly did it.
Oh my.
I guess bleeding hearts in Alaska too....
Restoring what was fuct up and can be restored is the right thing to do.
Things change and its not always possible to "restore" without hurting a lot of people. Putting the Genie back in the bottle can be impossible.
I think what Jim and others are doing is a beautiful thing.
But some people would rather empty the country side, come up for a week every fall, shoot a few animals, brag about it, and then run back to wherever it is they came from and slap each other on the back about what a fine job they've done.
It's a hundred to one that that they haven't thought about private property rights on the prairies and a thousand to one that they just flat out don't care.
"We will own nothing and eat bugs and be happy, or else", Plumdumbs man.
AB2506: I think it was Roger Miller who warned "you can't roller skate in a Buffalo herd"! I foresee "problems" with Buffalo walking on people and hurting them, severely! Love to see me some Buffalo but not wanting to hit one with my vehicles. The "problems" that will arise from "vast herds of Buffalo" will harm cattle ranchers, farmers, and humans of all kinds. Some Buffalo, in some places, fine, but huge herds roaming the plains not such a good idea. Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
I'm against the concept of re-establishing bison on the plains.
I think what Jim and others are doing is a beautiful thing.
But some people would rather empty the country side, come up for a week every fall, shoot a few animals, brag about it, and then run back to wherever it is they came from and slap each other on the back about what a fine job they've done.
Makes me sick.
Meh...AP employs Montana residents families too.
We can call it even. They also support Montana businesses and their money is just as green as anyone else's.
I think what AP is doing is a beautiful thing, best thing to happen to that country in my lifetime.
I prioritize public access, access to public land, wildlife, hunting, fishing, and other outdoor recreation. AP are excellent stewards of all that.
I step away for a bit and find Buzz taking you guys to the wood shed.
LOL
They didn't like the answers so they went to personal attacks and try to nit pick the answers apart. Lots of guys here don't want to find the answers themselves but instead believe their first impression is gospel even though they know nothing on the topic.
This is directed at whomever fits that bill. If it pisses you off then it's probably you.
Well, well...
What answers to questions were given?
He showed you where to look and told you his first hand accounts. It's not his fault you need your hand held.
Interesting though how it went from being against bison and Indians to now against the organization. Pick a lane lol
Green decoy groups will continue to use outdoorsmen to fund the fight against outdoorsmen.
The mindset of a career government employee is directly in line with this, but don’t worry, he is here to help. Lol
If he says he doesn’t know, or that the answer is no, then all a guy needs to do is get the minutes of pertinent meetings and post the info to prove him a liar.
American Prairie reads exactly like a Green decoy group!
I'll make a prediction on behalf of your beloved green group and what they will be putting out for future communication: "Hunting will prohibited until further notice to give the biodiversity a chance to be reestablished, thank you for your cooperation."
80,000 acres open to hunting is what I read. No permission required for other recreation, another thing I read. No permission needed to cross AP property to get to other public lands, read that too.
I didn't read how long...
Perpetuity....you'll be worm chit before they stop allowing hunting and public access.
So if the American Prairie group goes belly up, but is bailed out by the feds. Who then designate it a national "park". The hunting will still be grandfathered in for perpetuity.
Different people with differing view points. I am always going to side with the farmers and productive output. Some are going to side with a nostalgic driven dream of roaming buffalos. Can't have it both ways. But it is what it is.
The Buffalo Commons is a conceptual proposal to create a vast nature preserve by returning 139,000 square miles (360,000 km2) of the drier portion of the Great Plains to native prairie, and by reintroducing the American bison ("buffalo"), that once grazed the shortgrass prairie. The proposal would affect ten states: Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Texas, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, and Kansas.[1]
History The proposal originated with Frank J. Popper and Deborah Popper, who argued in a 1987 essay[2] that the current use of the drier parts of the plains is not sustainable. The authors viewed the historic European-American settlement of the Plains States as hampered by lack of understanding of the ecology and an example of the "Tragedy of the Commons".[3] Many people in potentially affected states resisted the concept during the 1990s.[4]
Cause The Poppers note that periodic disasters such as the Dust Bowl and continuing significant population loss over the last 80 years show the area is not sustainable for large-scale farming. They note that the rural Plains has lost a third of its population since 1920.
Just because some pot-smoking hippie biologists proposed a concept, does not mean that they understand the problems facing rural North America. Dust Bowl is a fact. Population loss is a many faceted issue that has little to do with the Popper's fantasy.
Population loss is due to not enough jobs. Large scale farming with large equipment and which does not require as much staff/family. During WWII, people migrated to the large cities where there were manufactruring jobs in support of the war.
Jim, would the Cowan’s agree to be equated with Hanoi Jane and Ted Turner? I know some that hunted their ground but never did myself.
They would just love that shìt!
.
Sure they would, both understand stewardship, both have large ranches, both have good management plans, both acquire property when it's for sale from willing sellers.
Wayyyyyy more similarities than differences, other than the type of livestock. That's a fact.
For the record, how much time have you spent on AP property? Turners? Cowan's?
I've spent lots of time on all 3...all have similar management, damn near identical in their goals. Another fact.
You are a typical leftist access limiter.
The APR couldn't pack Bill's saddle when it comes to stewardship.
Go dream something else up.
Go sober up...drunk. Or have another swig, better yet.
So you think Cowans are access limiting greedy pricks who just swindle eastern donors to gain an advantage in land development deals in Western Montana.
So you know...AP has just shy of 80,000 acres enrolled in block management.
Access limiting you say?
What a joke you are.
Wow 80,000 acres. That's one large ranch. Big deal.
AB2506: I think it was Roger Miller who warned "you can't roller skate in a Buffalo herd"! I foresee "problems" with Buffalo walking on people and hurting them, severely! Love to see me some Buffalo but not wanting to hit one with my vehicles. The "problems" that will arise from "vast herds of Buffalo" will harm cattle ranchers, farmers, and humans of all kinds. Some Buffalo, in some places, fine, but huge herds roaming the plains not such a good idea. Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
I'm against the concept of re-establishing bison on the plains.
Great, I'm in support of bison on the plains.
My money is on them expanding, oh, wait, they already are.
Jim, would the Cowan’s agree to be equated with Hanoi Jane and Ted Turner? I know some that hunted their ground but never did myself.
They would just love that shìt!
.
Sure they would, both understand stewardship, both have large ranches, both have good management plans, both acquire property when it's for sale from willing sellers.
Wayyyyyy more similarities than differences, other than the type of livestock. That's a fact.
For the record, how much time have you spent on AP property? Turners? Cowan's?
I've spent lots of time on all 3...all have similar management, damn near identical in their goals. Another fact.
You are a typical leftist access limiter.
The APR couldn't pack Bill's saddle when it comes to stewardship.
Go dream something else up.
Go sober up...drunk. Or have another swig, better yet.
So you think Cowans are access limiting greedy pricks who just swindle eastern donors to gain an advantage in land development deals in Western Montana.
So you know...AP has just shy of 80,000 acres enrolled in block management.
Access limiting you say?
What a joke you are.
Wow 80,000 acres. That's one large ranch. Big deal.
How big is your spread?
They also have another 350K that they lease from the BLM, State adjacent to another 1.1 million in the CMR, and have a goal of 3.2 million.
They have the money, drive, ambition, and ability to accomplish it all...and they will. It will make Montana a much better place.
Green decoy groups will continue to use outdoorsmen to fund the fight against outdoorsmen.
The mindset of a career government employee is directly in line with this, but don’t worry, he is here to help. Lol
If he says he doesn’t know, or that the answer is no, then all a guy needs to do is get the minutes of pertinent meetings and post the info to prove him a liar.
American Prairie reads exactly like a Green decoy group!
I'll make a prediction on behalf of your beloved green group and what they will be putting out for future communication: "Hunting will prohibited until further notice to give the biodiversity a chance to be reestablished, thank you for your cooperation."
80,000 acres open to hunting is what I read. No permission required for other recreation, another thing I read. No permission needed to cross AP property to get to other public lands, read that too.
I didn't read how long...
Perpetuity....you'll be worm chit before they stop allowing hunting and public access.
So if the American Prairie group goes belly up, but is bailed out by the feds. Who then designate it a national "park". The hunting will still be grandfathered in for perpetuity.
Financials are on their website...don't think they're too worried about going belly-up. They have no desire to hand the land off to the Feds or State, they like being nimble with management decisions.
Different people with differing view points. I am always going to side with the farmers and productive output. Some are going to side with a nostalgic driven dream of roaming buffalos. Can't have it both ways. But it is what it is.
Actually you can, lots of large herds are managed for meat production the same as cattle. The difference is bison require less inputs and they are more hearty.
Different people with differing view points. I am always going to side with the farmers and productive output. Some are going to side with a nostalgic driven dream of roaming buffalos. Can't have it both ways. But it is what it is.
looking at it with no emotion one way or the other.....I am on the rancher/farmer side of things.....but it is the rancher/farmer that wants to sell.
if they want to sell to apr....who has the right to tell them they cant?....just because the rancher/farmer is selling doesnt mean they where forced out.....it could be a variety of things..
the bottom line is it is their decision to sell to them or not.....everybody is going into the deal with their eyes wide open.....bob
Different people with differing view points. I am always going to side with the farmers and productive output. Some are going to side with a nostalgic driven dream of roaming buffalos. Can't have it both ways. But it is what it is.
looking at it with no emotion one way or the other.....I am on the rancher/farmer side of things.....but it is the rancher/farmer that wants to sell.
if they want to sell to apr....who has the right to tell them they cant?....just because the rancher/farmer is selling doesnt mean they where forced out.....it could be a variety of things..
the bottom line is it is their decision to sell to them or not.....everybody is going into the deal with their eyes wide open.....bob
You said the quiet part out loud. To hear some folks on here you'd think they were being forced off their land by eminent domain. The hypocrisy of many here is astounding, so many are overgrown toddlers that do nothing but piss and moan about things they don't like. No wonder the country went down the crapper. Anyone want to venture a guess as to what generation the majority of them hail from? I'll wait.
Things change and seldom can you change them back. Buffalo can't roam like they used to without running in to a road or town or fence. Then there are introduced plant, animal, and microbe species that didn't use to be. The buffalo commons concept was to depopulate the plains, other than a few large cities.
The noble savage never existed. My grandmother told me about her great aunt that lived through the 1862 Dakotah war. Her aunt told her the Indians were just like the whites, good ones and bad ones. They left her family alone. Which tribe is native? They killed and chased each other from coast to coast, no different than Europe or anywhere else.
The struggle continues but with money instead of guns and bullets. People with money and bad ideas move in and try to civilize things, sometimes pricing natives out of their homes or cut off access to water.
The buffalo plan, BCHA (and otherwe are here to help you hunters groups) might be players or just useful idiots in this displacement. They sure are good at getting locals and sportsmen turned against each other.
So much info shared here is completely and horribly wrong.
Many tribes have restored bison herds and manage them well. Bison are heartier than cattle and eat about the same amount of grass, a little less actually. They reproduce at the same rates but often live longer. Brucellosis can be spread by cattle or bison just as easily and affects them similarly. That myth reminds me of some of the COVID BS we were told.
Threads like this remind me of the vast ignorance of boomers. No wonder they drove this country into the dirt.
This /\
The ignorance of the fire is on full display in this thread.
"Gianforte has argued that bison conservation undermines the health of rural livestock, and that public lands within the state should only be leased to commercial livestock producers."
Jersey is a moron. Bison are classified livestock in MT. Dumb fugg is the governor and doesn't know this. LOL
Looks land Tawney and BHA involved in another grift of us tax payers. I predicted this when BHA supported this unqualified drunk with 3 dwi s and literally zero work experience in her entire life to run the dept of interior
One only needs to read all her previous racist anti white. Anti hunting anti gun rants to see why BHA enthusiastically endorsed her.
Buzzy I remember when you worked for Ted turner who fenced off wild elk and deer herds on his ranch so public sportsmen could not access this public resources
You’re a joke and a hypocrite. Run back to your gifter god father Newberg
How much us tax dollars are going to BHA clown show in this grift this time?
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by SamOlson
Damn right.
I think what Jim and others are doing is a beautiful thing.
But some people would rather empty the country side, come up for a week every fall, shoot a few animals, brag about it, and then run back to wherever it is they came from and slap each other on the back about what a fine job they've done.
Makes me sick.
Meh...AP employs Montana residents families too.
We can call it even. They also support Montana businesses and their money is just as green as anyone else's.
I think what AP is doing is a beautiful thing, best thing to happen to that country in my lifetime.
I prioritize public access, access to public land, wildlife, hunting, fishing, and other outdoor recreation. AP are excellent stewards of all that.
I think what Jim and others are doing is a beautiful thing.
But some people would rather empty the country side, come up for a week every fall, shoot a few animals, brag about it, and then run back to wherever it is they came from and slap each other on the back about what a fine job they've done.
Makes me sick.
Meh...AP employs Montana residents families too.
We can call it even. They also support Montana businesses and their money is just as green as anyone else's.
I think what AP is doing is a beautiful thing, best thing to happen to that country in my lifetime.
I prioritize public access, access to public land, wildlife, hunting, fishing, and other outdoor recreation. AP are excellent stewards of all that.
It's why I support them financially.
Empty talk. The actions of the organizations you support speak for themselves.
You and yours are all for exclusion, limiting access and swindling people who are vulnerable and ignorant.
I suspect that Buzzie or Callie don't know where Phillips County is......or that there is a BLM office in Lewsitown.
Hilarious...I'm not a move-in to Montana, 4th generation Montana Native.
When did you move to Montana?
Laffin'...
Pretty familiar with all things Montana including Phillips and Blaine County. My family hunted Bill Cowen's place for a lot of years as well as other South of Chinook in that Cleveland/Lloyd country.
Yet you are still so ignorant....even for a leftist.
Did you Google year round buffalo grazing yet?
I've forgotten more about BLM leases than you'll ever know.
Your dumb ass sure in the ph uck don’t know anything about your chitty federal retirement lol. What was it again 37% at 30yrs of service? Supplemented by TSP that rides the highs and lows of the stock market? Ph uck you are a idiot. Get with me when you have a defined retirement dumb ass… Oh yeah you never will..
Perpetuity....you'll be worm chit before they stop allowing hunting and public access.
So if the American Prairie group goes belly up, but is bailed out by the feds. Who then designate it a national "park". The hunting will still be grandfathered in for perpetuity.
Financials are on their website...don't think they're too worried about going belly-up. They have no desire to hand the land off to the Feds or State, they like being nimble with management decisions.
A few years ago they were all over the internet. Blogs, podcasts, etc.. wasn't hard to see their endgame isn't an private entity. Just get big enough that the gov can take over and finish the job. And they don't have to keep promises if they don't exist. But I'm sure your privy to their management decisions
Keep reaching dummy. I am sure they would just love to hear about how they are just like em.
Who said anything about the CMR? Being a different federal agency and all.
Cowans are nothing like the APR. The Cowans are good ranchers and stewards of the land.
No wonder you BHA dipshits love the APR.
So....anything about year round Buffalo leases from the BLM?
You denied the existence of such a while ago.
Drunk, fat and stupid is no way to go through life...
Short, reverse high and tight is no way to go through life either but here you are retard. Tell us again about that skookum retirement you are getting after 30yrs of federal service ??
It's a long, complicated story, but the bottom line is, APR wants to assemble this, slick off the cows from the countryside, and then have the Feds buy them out for a national park that nobody will visit. Rural cleansing.
Keep reaching dummy. I am sure they would just love to hear about how they are just like em.
Who said anything about the CMR? Being a different federal agency and all.
Cowans are nothing like the APR. The Cowans are good ranchers and stewards of the land.
No wonder you BHA dipshits love the APR.
So....anything about year round Buffalo leases from the BLM?
You denied the existence of such a while ago.
Drunk, fat and stupid is no way to go through life...
Short, reverse high and tight is no way to go through life either but here you are retard. Tell us again about that skookum retirement you are getting after 30yrs of federal service ??
I suspect that Buzzie or Callie don't know where Phillips County is......or that there is a BLM office in Lewsitown.
Hilarious...I'm not a move-in to Montana, 4th generation Montana Native.
When did you move to Montana?
Laffin'...
Pretty familiar with all things Montana including Phillips and Blaine County. My family hunted Bill Cowen's place for a lot of years as well as other South of Chinook in that Cleveland/Lloyd country.
Yet you are still so ignorant....even for a leftist.
Did you Google year round buffalo grazing yet?
I've forgotten more about BLM leases than you'll ever know.
Your dumb ass sure in the ph uck don’t know anything about your chitty federal retirement lol. What was it again 37% at 30yrs of service? Supplemented by TSP that rides the highs and lows of the stock market? Ph uck you are a idiot. Get with me when you have a defined retirement dumb ass… Oh yeah you never will..
$120k a year...without touching tsp...another million plus there. Wife's will be similar, between 401, SS, and rental income. Have a brokerage account for fun and 2 IRA's. Own 1.2 mil in real estate.
Have 2 529 accounts for both my nephews that they likely won't need as they both will get scholarships. The good news is they'll roll into Roth's for each of them.
Plenty left over to donate to my favorite charities, like AP.
I suspect that Buzzie or Callie don't know where Phillips County is......or that there is a BLM office in Lewsitown.
Hilarious...I'm not a move-in to Montana, 4th generation Montana Native.
When did you move to Montana?
Laffin'...
Pretty familiar with all things Montana including Phillips and Blaine County. My family hunted Bill Cowen's place for a lot of years as well as other South of Chinook in that Cleveland/Lloyd country.
Yet you are still so ignorant....even for a leftist.
Did you Google year round buffalo grazing yet?
I've forgotten more about BLM leases than you'll ever know.
Your dumb ass sure in the ph uck don’t know anything about your chitty federal retirement lol. What was it again 37% at 30yrs of service? Supplemented by TSP that rides the highs and lows of the stock market? Ph uck you are a idiot. Get with me when you have a defined retirement dumb ass… Oh yeah you never will..
$120k a year...without touching tsp...another million plus there. Wife's will be similar, between 401, SS, and rental income. Have a brokerage account for fun and 2 IRA's. Own 1.2 mil in real estate.
Have 2 529 accounts for both my nephews that they likely won't need as they both will get scholarships. The good news is they'll roll into Roth's for each of them.
Plenty left over to donate to my favorite charities, like AP.
Bison are cattle, so I assume they come under private ownership state laws which feds support concerning brucellosis. By law those positive test cattle will have to go to slaughter. If allowed to breed (which they will) they will increase to the limit of their food supply and the excess will have to go to slaughter or be sold to a place that can handle them. It sounds to me like it is just going to be a big ranching operation with by necessity expensive fences. They will produce a lot of low quality, low cholesterol beef about the same as the kill cow market.
It probably won't have much negative effects as long as the states involved enforce the liability that goes along with keeping your cattle out of the neighbors crops and off the public roads. Although I have traveled out west where cattle still access public roads.
So ,,, If the "native Americans "want buffalo so bad,,why dont they foot the bill or buy these easy to find cheap ranches or glut their own reservations with them? its all about killing out cattle ranches anyway,, Buffs will infect the cattle=either kill em out with disease and have to destroy the cattle or ranch will quarantine,and thus kill them bury them and go out that way
So ,,, If the "native Americans "want buffalo so bad,,why dont they foot the bill or buy these easy to find cheap ranches or glut their own reservations with them? its all about killing out cattle ranches anyway,, Buffs will infect the cattle=either kill em out with disease and have to destroy the cattle or ranch will quarantine,and thus kill them bury them and go out that way
You can bet the motive behind this program is not good. And I agree that if the Indians want bison they have some mighty good reservation land that could be fenced up for that purpose. But then they would have to muster up a crew of pretty good and sober cowboys to do what is required to contain and care for their livestock. As to the bison infecting the nearby cattle that won't happen if they are contained within the fences and the proper testing and culling is implemented. Brucellosis cattle can be used for human food, not sure about tuberculosis.
The corralling and testing of bison can be done but I'm aware that Custer Park in South Dakota fails to round up several recalcitrant bulls every year so that might be a problem with disease eradication.
It is comical that you back country fágs are so in favor of big out of state and out of country interests gobbling up all the public ground they can get ahold of.
Different people with differing view points. I am always going to side with the farmers and productive output. Some are going to side with a nostalgic driven dream of roaming buffalos. Can't have it both ways. But it is what it is.
looking at it with no emotion one way or the other.....I am on the rancher/farmer side of things.....but it is the rancher/farmer that wants to sell.
if they want to sell to apr....who has the right to tell them they cant?....just because the rancher/farmer is selling doesnt mean they where forced out.....it could be a variety of things..
the bottom line is it is their decision to sell to them or not.....everybody is going into the deal with their eyes wide open.....bob
You said the quiet part out loud. To hear some folks on here you'd think they were being forced off their land by eminent domain. The hypocrisy of many here is astounding, so many are overgrown toddlers that do nothing but piss and moan about things they don't like. No wonder the country went down the crapper. Anyone want to venture a guess as to what generation the majority of them hail from? I'll wait.
Please tell me where I pissed and moaned Colorado? And Bob, I have a hard time believing the majority Involved let alone all parties have their eyes wide open. What is on the surface is never what shakes out on these deals in the long run. We've seen this song and dance too many times. It never works longterm in the favor of farmer/ranchers or hunters.
It is comical that you back country fágs are so in favor of big out of state and out of country interests gobbling up all the public ground they can get ahold of.
Who’s going to pay for the fences they go through? “Indigenous knowledge” ? What makes them experts on bison management? It’s been a while since they last subsisted on bison herds.
Perhaps someone still remembers a story told by GGG granddad about how to run bison over a cliff 1000 at a time.
BuzzH, If you are on the side of the "environmentalists" just say it out loud. At least own it.
I'm on the side of public access and groups that provide it, along with hunting and fishing.
Do more hunting and fishing in a year than you do in 10...fact.
You don't know me and I don't know you. Maybe you're right? I know a lot of proficient fisherman and hunters who are sucked into the greeny religion.
I've hunted or fished 5 stayes this year. Texas, California, Nevada, Indiana and Fished Alaska. I also run a business so you could be right. I'm a busy guy
BuzzH, If you are on the side of the "environmentalists" just say it out loud. At least own it.
I'm on the side of public access and groups that provide it, along with hunting and fishing.
Do more hunting and fishing in a year than you do in 10...fact.
You don't know me and I don't know you. Maybe you're right? I know a lot of proficient fisherman and hunters who are sucked into the greeny religion.
I've hunted or fished 5 stayes this year. Texas, California, Nevada, Indiana and Fished Alaska. I also run a business so you could be right. I'm a busy guy
Buzzh runs from his Ted turner connection. These Skookum public places he hunts are probably closer to private. He’s part of the cool guy club, I’m sure he has land tawny, Randy newberg, Steve rinella on speed dial. Now he’s in bed with another organization that’s buying up land. He says they are for the public but the boys on Montana who know the deal doesn’t sound like we can just show up and hunt this APR land. Unless you are big money donor like buzzh
BuzzH, If you are on the side of the "environmentalists" just say it out loud. At least own it.
I'm on the side of public access and groups that provide it, along with hunting and fishing.
Do more hunting and fishing in a year than you do in 10...fact.
You don't know me and I don't know you. Maybe you're right? I know a lot of proficient fisherman and hunters who are sucked into the greeny religion.
I've hunted or fished 5 stayes this year. Texas, California, Nevada, Indiana and Fished Alaska. I also run a business so you could be right. I'm a busy guy
Buzzh runs from his Ted turner connection. These Skookum public places he hunts are probably closer to private. He’s part of the cool guy club, I’m sure he has land tawny, Randy newberg, Steve rinella on speed dial. Now he’s in bed with another organization that’s buying up land. He says they are for the public but the boys on Montana who know the deal doesn’t sound like we can just show up and hunt this APR land. Unless you are big money donor like buzzh
Sure you can, get a block management book, free from FWP.
BuzzH, If you are on the side of the "environmentalists" just say it out loud. At least own it.
I'm on the side of public access and groups that provide it, along with hunting and fishing.
Do more hunting and fishing in a year than you do in 10...fact.
He has to, to kill 3-5 elk every year. What a bragging POS. BuzzH you are a real piece of something…
My man shrap I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s nowhere near public land.
You'd be wrong, I've killed 83 elk, 1 on private in 1984 on Neil Dana's land near Avon Montana.
Aren’t you a killing machine! And you don’t even like to hunt elk….
Originally Posted by BuzzH
I never have understood all the hype and nonsense about elk.
In areas of big timbered country and low numbers, they're hard to find for sure. In other places and with decent numbers, not tough at all.
Hunting bigger bulls in tougher on general tags, but in decently managed areas, even bigger bulls are not tough to find.
You don't have to be super human to hunt them, they aren't tough to get close to, they're a very large target, they leave a ton of sign, easy to glass, and they die easily with a half way decent shot.
They are fairly large, but not as big as most guys claim. Packing them can be a bit of work, but anyone in half decent shape with some time can get them out of the woods.
There's lots of them to hunt right now, and they are very good eating...why I usually kill 3-5 per year.
It is comical that you back country fágs are so in favor of big out of state and out of country interests gobbling up all the public ground they can get ahold of.
BuzzH, If you are on the side of the "environmentalists" just say it out loud. At least own it.
I'm on the side of public access and groups that provide it, along with hunting and fishing.
Do more hunting and fishing in a year than you do in 10...fact.
You don't know me and I don't know you. Maybe you're right? I know a lot of proficient fisherman and hunters who are sucked into the greeny religion.
I've hunted or fished 5 stayes this year. Texas, California, Nevada, Indiana and Fished Alaska. I also run a business so you could be right. I'm a busy guy
Yeah, I fish AK every year as well, well, in the past 15 years I missed 2019, drew a sheep tag in WY.
2022 was sort of a slow year for me, pretty ho-hum.
AK fishing, 600 lbs of filets 100lbs each.
3 days, each day, limit of rockfish, halibut, lingcod, few salmon, grey cod, etc.
Wyoming this fall for me:
3rd shiras, 2nd bull from WY:
Pronghorn, average buck, didn't have much time to spend.
What a lot of those ignant-assed boomer comments are leaving out is that it was the US Govt and greedy buffalo hunters engaged in a genocidal war against the Indian tribes that nearly wiped out the great herds.
You make that sound like it was a bad thing.
When I was in school 50 some years ago, it was still common to read stories and books about the buffalo hunters. It was common knowledge that the US Army paid $1 each for salted bison tongues. They sure were not buying them to feed the troopers.
Many people think of hide hunters as the primary killers of the bison herds. They were secondary to the tongue hunters. Often the skinners followed behind and salvaged the hides after the tongues were cut out.
But one would have to look long and hard to find any material today to document the US Governments role in the elimination of bison from the plains.
The bison had to be eliminated for several reasons to facilitate "Manifest Destiny". First, with the bison gone, the plains Indians would be easy to pacify. Second, Bison are incompatible with homesteads, farming, and containment of cattle.
There is a herd of about 150 bison beside my house. The owner started with three calves and built his herd and the fences to contain them from that point over thirty years. He raises his own feed and contains the operation on about 200 acres.
Barbed wire fences will not contain them. I have watched as full grown animals stand looking at a fence, then leap into a full run as hard as they can run headlong into the fence. The only fence that will hold them has to take the impact of a fifteen hundred pound animal at close to thirtry MPH.
If it will stop a Toyota Corolla at 30 MPH, it might stop a bison. Except the bison can jump.
I don't care who wants to put bison on their private property. More power to them. I would as soon eat bison as beef. Just as long as they are able to keep the critters contained on their own property.
But they do not belong on public lands. And they sure as hell do not belong on riparian areas.
Has nobody read of the great "buffalo wallows" of the 19'th century. The damage was so severe, that they can still be recognized today. Though revisionist history would claim the depressions occur without the benefit of biology.
Ever wonder how self serving and self centered these "back country" pricks are?
Well....now we know....
Let's see some more pictures!
Then have him tell how the taxpayer is getting his money’s worth in the tax dollars that are paying his salary and time off to hunt fish and prospect all the great areas while on the job.
Ever wonder how self serving and self centered these "back country" pricks are?
Well....now we know....
Let's see some more pictures!
Then have him tell how the taxpayer is getting his money’s worth in the tax dollars that are paying his salary and time off to hunt fish and prospect all the great areas while on the job.
I only get to carry over 240 hours of leave a year, acquire another 300-320 or so, well, and all the holidays off too.
Ever wonder how self serving and self centered these "back country" pricks are?
Well....now we know....
Let's see some more pictures!
Then have him tell how the taxpayer is getting his money’s worth in the tax dollars that are paying his salary and time off to hunt fish and prospect all the great areas while on the job.
I only get to carry over 240 hours of leave a year, acquire another 300-320 or so, well, and all the holidays off too.
Ever wonder how self serving and self centered these "back country" pricks are?
Well....now we know....
Let's see some more pictures!
Then have him tell how the taxpayer is getting his money’s worth in the tax dollars that are paying his salary and time off to hunt fish and prospect all the great areas while on the job.
I only get to carry over 240 hours of leave a year, acquire another 300-320 or so, well, and all the holidays off too.
Are we cross?
Are you ignorant? When wouldn’t we be cross, you have done nothing but criticize anything I’ve ever done and if I was to brag as you do, I could account for more elk, bigger moose and collectively more game than you.
Bitch about Montana’s game and policies and still come here to rape the harlot you condemn, you really are a piece of work…
Not sure why that question riled you up Buzz. Like I said, I'll always be on the side of the local farmer/rancher. If they don't support it, it doesn't pass the smell test. Trusting lobbyists and politicians doesn't have a great track record.
Lot of great pics Buzz. Looks like you've done your share of hunting for sure.
Still not sure how this disqualifies you from being an environmentalist with an agenda other than what is on the surface. But cool pics.
Wish you would share them more often.
I guess if putting a high value on habitat, hunting, fishing, public access, public lands and wildlife means environmentalist...then yeah, count me in that group.
Not sure why that question riled you up Buzz. Like I said, I'll always be on the side of the local farmer/rancher. If they don't support it, it doesn't pass the smell test. Trusting lobbyists and politicians doesn't have a great track record.
That's fine, I'll always be on the side of wildlife, habitat, public lands, hunting, and fishing as my top priority.
Never did think collaborating with the ag community can't be part of all that, or that they have to conflict...in particular those that also place a high value on the same things I do.
Lots of great private landowners out there, no question.
Ever wonder how self serving and self centered these "back country" pricks are?
Well....now we know....
Let's see some more pictures!
Then have him tell how the taxpayer is getting his money’s worth in the tax dollars that are paying his salary and time off to hunt fish and prospect all the great areas while on the job.
I only get to carry over 240 hours of leave a year, acquire another 300-320 or so, well, and all the holidays off too.
Are we cross?
Are you ignorant? When wouldn’t we be cross, you have done nothing but criticize anything I’ve ever done and if I was to brag as you do, I could account for more elk, bigger moose and collectively more game than you.
Bitch about Montana’s game and policies and still come here to rape the harlot you condemn, you really are a piece of work…
Other than casinos, can anyone share about a native owned business that has been successful longterm, without white management? Even the casinos are likely run by whites.
I've lived near native reserves all my life, matter of fact, I'm less than 3 miles from the Tsuu T'ina reserve right now. Many of these reserves had serious cash flow from oil, the Tsuu T'ina from real estate development. Near Wetaskiwin, there was a Cree owned truck stop along highway 2. For a few years it was a going concern. Today, it's vacant and covered by graffiti. It's quite common today for all the ills of the natives to be blamed on residential schools that shut down in the 1996. How many generations must go by before the schools stop being a excuse for drunkiness, incest, drug abuse, theft, domestic violence, drunk driving and satanism?
The schools were an attempt to bring the natives into modern society. A noble idea, poorly executed. The churches who ran the schools should be embarrassed that they did not demonstrate Christ like traits.
A lot of BC natives are not part of a treaty. They fail like the ghettoized Treaty 7 and 8 natives in Alberta.
I've been to Soweto (not near as bad as what we have seen in the news) in South Africa. I've been past many native settlements in South Africa. The settlements are nothing but reserves by another name. I've been through the Transkei. This is/was a seriously large chunk of land which was taken from white farmers in 1976 and given to the natives to "self govern". You can still see the terraced hillsides where pineapples were grown before the land was handed over to the natives. This experiment of "self governance" ended in 1994. There is not much farming in the Transkei now. The natives run some cattle, sheep and goats. They don't even care that their native cattle (nguni) breed is interbreeding with any old breed. Who is preserving the nguni breed? White farmers. The old farmsteads are still there. Most are inhabited, but most have a kraal adjacent. A kraal is a cattle pen. It's where the men go to drink beer (mostly home made), women aren't allowed. When we were first there in 2014, the Communist ANC party, wanted to ensure that they were re-elected. I was told that they gave each rural home an outdoor toilet and a solar powered hot water tank. If you weren't black, you got nada. I'm not sure if they used the hot water tanks, but they just walked past the toilets and went in the bush like they always did.
Given my observations, the native ran bison initiatives are doomed to fail, without a lot of white oversight. It seems that the natives cannot get out of their rut. I want the natives to succeed, I really do, but it seems they can't.
BuzzH. Why do you think that you are the only supporter on this thread of BHA and the APR? You're just smarter than anyone else? You do know that Don Quixote who tilted at windmills was insane? He tilted by himself, is my point. He thought he was smarter than anyone else.
BTW, if you yourself are killing 3-5 elk every year plus assorted other game, then you are a game hog. How can you possibly ever use that much game meat? I could harvest more deer than I do quite easily, but we only need so much. I do not shoot more than we can use and can find a home for. Finding enough people to take the game (especially because I will not process it for them.), that I and my daughters could shoot, is seriously hard work. I guess that serves me right for being a borderline introvert, I don't need people other than family. Since the daughters hunt, I shoot less. We only need so much, we don't need more than we can use.
BuzzH, you put too much emphasis on your body count. Even 3-5 elk a year is too much, even without assorted other big game.
If you can't see that the BHA and APR are the proverbial camel getting it's nose under the edge of the tent, then you are also seriously misguided.
There is no denying that you and the left wing anti hunting grift BHA want to ban firearms and end many forms of hunting and trapping and ranching. All of the policies and political donations of you and the BHA and its leadership undeniably support this fact.
You can post all of the lies and weak Propaganda you want on here but the well documented facts state otherwise. Hard to believe some of the naive goobers on the fire but into your grift
You are a scammer and a grifter and cannot be trusted
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by RUM7
Not sure why that question riled you up Buzz. Like I said, I'll always be on the side of the local farmer/rancher. If they don't support it, it doesn't pass the smell test. Trusting lobbyists and politicians doesn't have a great track record.
That's fine, I'll always be on the side of wildlife, habitat, public lands, hunting, and fishing as my top priority.
Never did think collaborating with the ag community can't be part of all that, or that they have to conflict...in particular those that also place a high value on the same things I do.
Lots of great private landowners out there, no question.
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by RUM7
Not sure why that question riled you up Buzz. Like I said, I'll always be on the side of the local farmer/rancher. If they don't support it, it doesn't pass the smell test. Trusting lobbyists and politicians doesn't have a great track record.
That's fine, I'll always be on the side of wildlife, habitat, public lands, hunting, and fishing as my top priority.
Never did think collaborating with the ag community can't be part of all that, or that they have to conflict...in particular those that also place a high value on the same things I do.
Lots of great private landowners out there, no question.
Anybody know the intended scope of this planned restoration? That is, is it intended for just the reservations, public land outside the reservations, or where?
And yes, I know that "buffalo will go where they want" but that's not my question.
Anybody know the intended scope of this planned restoration? That is, is it intended for just the reservations, public land outside the reservations, or where?
And yes, I know that "buffalo will go where they want" but that's not my question.
Anybody know the intended scope of this planned restoration? That is, is it intended for just the reservations, public land outside the reservations, or where?
And yes, I know that "buffalo will go where they want" but that's not my question.
It's to remove the people there.
Are you saying it's intended to remove people from the reservations?
Anybody know the intended scope of this planned restoration? That is, is it intended for just the reservations, public land outside the reservations, or where?
And yes, I know that "buffalo will go where they want" but that's not my question.
It's to remove the people there.
Are you saying it's intended to remove people from the reservations?
Are you under the impression the APR is buying Rez land?
Corner crossing has been all over the news, WYBHA raised $120K to defend 4 NR hunters wrongfully charged with criminal trespass, and to litigate the issue in Federal Court, that could result in opening up over 8 million acres of public land:
Passed this bill making it illegal for anyone to post public land and also allow Game and Fish to issue citations under title 23 hunter harassment for anyone that does so.
I could go on all day...we're moving the needle for hunters, anglers, trappers, public lands, public access, habitat, and on and on.
Always going to be loud-mouthed critics, goes with the territory of being successful in favorable outcomes for public lands, waters, wildlife and access.
Anybody know the intended scope of this planned restoration? That is, is it intended for just the reservations, public land outside the reservations, or where?
And yes, I know that "buffalo will go where they want" but that's not my question.
It's to remove the people there.
Are you saying it's intended to remove people from the reservations?
Are you under the impression the APR is buying Rez land?
No, but I'm not asking what APR is trying to do, I'm asking about the subject of the OP, the $25 M grant. What's the intent of that program, restore bison on the reservations, or?
Anybody know the intended scope of this planned restoration? That is, is it intended for just the reservations, public land outside the reservations, or where?
And yes, I know that "buffalo will go where they want" but that's not my question.
It's to remove the people there.
Are you saying it's intended to remove people from the reservations?
Are you under the impression the APR is buying Rez land?
No, but I'm not asking what APR is trying to do, I'm asking about the subject of the OP, the $25 M grant. What's the intent of that program, restore bison on the reservations, or?
Yes, expand herds on the Reservation. They currently have 20k bison in 65 herds combined on all reservations.
Richard Berman hit piece, old news and he's been discredited time and time again.
Same guy that lobbies for Philip Morris tobacco to allow smoking in restaurants, etc.
Interestingly enough, his Center for Organizational Research and Education is a 501 c3.
Richard Berman and Will Coggin definitely appeal to the low information, low IQ people.
BTW, they need a new editor, Jon Tester did not run against "Danny" Rehberg...
Next...
I am not assuming the report is truthful just as I am not assuming you and BHA are truthful. Just looking at an organization that you are campaigning for through research and discernment. I actually do not have my mind completely made up. I will say that your lightly veiled ad hominem attacks don't help your case.
What percentage of BHA donations actually go toward "boots on the ground" work? That is something I can't quite pin down. Is it a lobbyist group? It does seem to be singularly focused with no regard to the bigger picture on many subjects.
Richard Berman hit piece, old news and he's been discredited time and time again.
Same guy that lobbies for Philip Morris tobacco to allow smoking in restaurants, etc.
Interestingly enough, his Center for Organizational Research and Education is a 501 c3.
Richard Berman and Will Coggin definitely appeal to the low information, low IQ people.
BTW, they need a new editor, Jon Tester did not run against "Danny" Rehberg...
Next...
Are you saying that there isn't any truth to any of what that piece says?
The funding sources are accurate, that information is no secret, they pulled those right from the IRS required financials. What's the problem?
Are you denying the work WYBHA has and is doing in Wyoming for habitat, wildlife, public access, hunting, fishing, and trapping?
The problem is in the old adage of "follow the money". Those organizations that have donated money expect something in return, no? They are not generally known as being very hunter friendly, are they?
Richard Berman hit piece, old news and he's been discredited time and time again.
Same guy that lobbies for Philip Morris tobacco to allow smoking in restaurants, etc.
Interestingly enough, his Center for Organizational Research and Education is a 501 c3.
Richard Berman and Will Coggin definitely appeal to the low information, low IQ people.
BTW, they need a new editor, Jon Tester did not run against "Danny" Rehberg...
Next...
I am not assuming the report is truthful just as I am not assuming you and BHA are truthful. Just looking at an organization that you are campaigning for through research and discernment. I actually do not have my mind completely made up. I will say that your lightly veiled ad hominem attacks don't help your case.
What percentage of BHA donations actually go toward "boots on the ground" work? That is something I can't quite pin down. Is it a lobbyist group? It does seem to be singularly focused with no regard to the bigger picture on many subjects.
The Wyoming chapter has donated most of our money to "boots on the ground" projects. I've already listed examples in a previous post. Over 50K to Raymond Mountain Access unlocking 33k acres of public land. That money came from a Commission tag we acquired with 100% of the raffle funds going to that project. Another example is the $34K we've donated to AccessYes in Wyoming that unlocks about 3.2 acres per dollar spent for hunting and fishing access on private land. We raised $120K for legal fees for the Missouri 4 regarding corner crossing, both the civil and criminal cases. Again, 100% of the funds went directly to that, our board is 100% volunteers. We have 4 trustees, that are accounting for the corner crossing funding as well as a professional accountant keeping the books squared away. Every penny that the 2200 or so individual donors we had contribute to that case is accounted for.
We also do numerous clean ups on State and Federal lands, all volunteer. Fence removals, collecting bitterbrush seeds, big-game collaring efforts, buck and rail fencing projects, testifying on land exchanges, testifying at the State Legislature, etc. etc. etc.
For the first time ever, we also hired an lobbyist to work on legislation that we found favorable for hunters and anglers and also work to kill some unfavorable legislation as well.
We move the needle on access, hunting, fishing, trapping, habitat, access, and wildlife related causes/issues. Our all volunteer board of 12 people does 3000+ hours of work a year.
Richard Berman hit piece, old news and he's been discredited time and time again.
Same guy that lobbies for Philip Morris tobacco to allow smoking in restaurants, etc.
Interestingly enough, his Center for Organizational Research and Education is a 501 c3.
Richard Berman and Will Coggin definitely appeal to the low information, low IQ people.
BTW, they need a new editor, Jon Tester did not run against "Danny" Rehberg...
Next...
Are you saying that there isn't any truth to any of what that piece says?
The funding sources are accurate, that information is no secret, they pulled those right from the IRS required financials. What's the problem?
Are you denying the work WYBHA has and is doing in Wyoming for habitat, wildlife, public access, hunting, fishing, and trapping?
The problem is in the old adage of "follow the money". Those organizations that have donated money expect something in return, no? They are not generally known as being very hunter friendly, are they?
Depends on the grants, some require deliverables on specific issues, some not.
Richard Berman hit piece, old news and he's been discredited time and time again.
Same guy that lobbies for Philip Morris tobacco to allow smoking in restaurants, etc.
Interestingly enough, his Center for Organizational Research and Education is a 501 c3.
Richard Berman and Will Coggin definitely appeal to the low information, low IQ people.
BTW, they need a new editor, Jon Tester did not run against "Danny" Rehberg...
Next...
I am not assuming the report is truthful just as I am not assuming you and BHA are truthful. Just looking at an organization that you are campaigning for through research and discernment. I actually do not have my mind completely made up. I will say that your lightly veiled ad hominem attacks don't help your case.
What percentage of BHA donations actually go toward "boots on the ground" work? That is something I can't quite pin down. Is it a lobbyist group? It does seem to be singularly focused with no regard to the bigger picture on many subjects.
The Wyoming chapter has donated most of our money to "boots on the ground" projects. I've already listed examples in a previous post. Over 50K to Raymond Mountain Access unlocking 33k acres of public land. That money came from a Commission tag we acquired with 100% of the raffle funds going to that project. Another example is the $34K we've donated to AccessYes in Wyoming that unlocks about 3.2 acres per dollar spent for hunting and fishing access on private land. We raised $120K for legal fees for the Missouri 4 regarding corner crossing, both the civil and criminal cases. Again, 100% of the funds went directly to that, our board is 100% volunteers. We have 4 trustees, that are accounting for the corner crossing funding as well as a professional accountant keeping the books squared away. Every penny that the 2200 or so individual donors we had contribute to that case is accounted for.
We also do numerous clean ups on State and Federal lands, all volunteer. Fence removals, collecting bitterbrush seeds, big-game collaring efforts, buck and rail fencing projects, testifying on land exchanges, testifying at the State Legislature, etc. etc. etc.
For the first time ever, we also hired an lobbyist to work on legislation that we found favorable for hunters and anglers and also work to kill some unfavorable legislation as well.
We move the needle on access, hunting, fishing, trapping, habitat, access, and wildlife related causes/issues. Our all volunteer board of 12 people does 3000+ hours of work a year.
Yet for all that, you vehemently support an America Last bought and paid for POS like tester and denigrate his detractors.
I don’t care if you offered me a free 400” free range public land bull, I’d tell you to eat shît.
That’s what sets aside whores like tester who would sell us all out to China et al from men of character.
Your [bleep] doesn’t fly on a free forum like the ‘fire. You’re better suited to cûnt talk.
Richard Berman hit piece, old news and he's been discredited time and time again.
Same guy that lobbies for Philip Morris tobacco to allow smoking in restaurants, etc.
Interestingly enough, his Center for Organizational Research and Education is a 501 c3.
Richard Berman and Will Coggin definitely appeal to the low information, low IQ people.
BTW, they need a new editor, Jon Tester did not run against "Danny" Rehberg...
Next...
I am not assuming the report is truthful just as I am not assuming you and BHA are truthful. Just looking at an organization that you are campaigning for through research and discernment. I actually do not have my mind completely made up. I will say that your lightly veiled ad hominem attacks don't help your case.
What percentage of BHA donations actually go toward "boots on the ground" work? That is something I can't quite pin down. Is it a lobbyist group? It does seem to be singularly focused with no regard to the bigger picture on many subjects.
The Wyoming chapter has donated most of our money to "boots on the ground" projects. I've already listed examples in a previous post. Over 50K to Raymond Mountain Access unlocking 33k acres of public land. That money came from a Commission tag we acquired with 100% of the raffle funds going to that project. Another example is the $34K we've donated to AccessYes in Wyoming that unlocks about 3.2 acres per dollar spent for hunting and fishing access on private land. We raised $120K for legal fees for the Missouri 4 regarding corner crossing, both the civil and criminal cases. Again, 100% of the funds went directly to that, our board is 100% volunteers. We have 4 trustees, that are accounting for the corner crossing funding as well as a professional accountant keeping the books squared away. Every penny that the 2200 or so individual donors we had contribute to that case is accounted for.
We also do numerous clean ups on State and Federal lands, all volunteer. Fence removals, collecting bitterbrush seeds, big-game collaring efforts, buck and rail fencing projects, testifying on land exchanges, testifying at the State Legislature, etc. etc. etc.
For the first time ever, we also hired an lobbyist to work on legislation that we found favorable for hunters and anglers and also work to kill some unfavorable legislation as well.
We move the needle on access, hunting, fishing, trapping, habitat, access, and wildlife related causes/issues. Our all volunteer board of 12 people does 3000+ hours of work a year.
Yet for all that, you vehemently support an America Last bought and paid for POS like tester and denigrate his detractors.
I don’t care if you offered me a free 400” free range public land bull, I’d tell you to eat shît.
That’s what sets aside whores like tester who would sell us all out to China et al from men of character.
Your [bleep] doesn’t fly on a free forum like the ‘fire. You’re better suited to cûnt talk.
I don't care if you voted for a loser, that's your business. Tester won and really who you need to question are your maga buddies who crossed the aisle to vote for Tester.
He won reelection because lots of Trump voters think he does a good job for Montana. Which is absolutely true, his record speaks for itself and is reflected at the polls.
Your grievance is with a whole $hitload of your MAGA buddies...they sold you out.
Oh, and begging me to take you elk hunting isn't a good look, and, beside that, I'm not into socialism. Find your bootstraps.
Anybody know the intended scope of this planned restoration? That is, is it intended for just the reservations, public land outside the reservations, or where?
And yes, I know that "buffalo will go where they want" but that's not my question.
It's to remove the people there.
Are you saying it's intended to remove people from the reservations?
No, it's intended to remove farmers and ranchers from the land.
Anybody know the intended scope of this planned restoration? That is, is it intended for just the reservations, public land outside the reservations, or where?
And yes, I know that "buffalo will go where they want" but that's not my question.
It's to remove the people there.
Are you saying it's intended to remove people from the reservations?
No, it's intended to remove farmers and ranchers from the land.
Not true...willing sellers and willing buyers. Nobody is forced to sell their land. They could choose to subdivide it and move all the family's in they want. Fact.
Anybody know the intended scope of this planned restoration? That is, is it intended for just the reservations, public land outside the reservations, or where?
And yes, I know that "buffalo will go where they want" but that's not my question.
It's to remove the people there.
Are you saying it's intended to remove people from the reservations?
No, it's intended to remove farmers and ranchers from the land.
Not true...willing sellers and willing buyers. Nobody is forced to sell their land. They could choose to subdivide it and move all the family's in they want. Fact.
Expain it like you're dealing with a slow 5 year old.
Or don't, but you seem to have a advocacy position here and I don't get where you want it to finish or what is the preferred end state.
I do wish a very few of the MT whiners had your ability in affecting political issues instead of just whining here on the Fire as the world passes by them.
Expain it like you're dealing with a slow 5 year old.
Or don't, but you seem to have a advocacy position here and I don't get where you want it to finish or what is the preferred end state.
I do wish a very few of the MT whiners had your ability in affecting political issues instead of just whining here on the Fire as the world passes by them.
And Testor won't win again.
I think the tribes should do what they feel best for their lands and reservation. If that means expanding their bison herds, they should. The wind river reservation is looking to expand bison herds there.
Expain it like you're dealing with a slow 5 year old.
Or don't, but you seem to have a advocacy position here and I don't get where you want it to finish or what is the preferred end state.
I do wish a very few of the MT whiners had your ability in affecting political issues instead of just whining here on the Fire as the world passes by them.
And Testor won't win again.
I think the tribes should do what they feel best for their lands and reservation. If that means expanding their bison herds, they should. The wind river reservation is looking to expand bison herds there.
Why should the Federal Goverment be spending money to increase tribal buffalo herds?
Yep, I added it. The point being, lotta gnashing of teeth if it's really something to be done "only" on the reservations.
I do agree with the question of why we should be paying for it, but that's just the federal government throwing money around to buy votes, it's not much in the scheme of how much money they spend on all manner of stuff that I don't agree with.
Expain it like you're dealing with a slow 5 year old.
Or don't, but you seem to have a advocacy position here and I don't get where you want it to finish or what is the preferred end state.
I do wish a very few of the MT whiners had your ability in affecting political issues instead of just whining here on the Fire as the world passes by them.
And Testor won't win again.
I think the tribes should do what they feel best for their lands and reservation. If that means expanding their bison herds, they should. The wind river reservation is looking to expand bison herds there.
Why should the Federal Goverment be spending money to increase tribal buffalo herds?
The same reason they spend money subsidizing ranchers and farmers.
when i first read the subject of this thread I saw restore biden to grasslands because in the back of my mind, i guess, he is overdue to be put out to pasture.
Expain it like you're dealing with a slow 5 year old.
Or don't, but you seem to have a advocacy position here and I don't get where you want it to finish or what is the preferred end state.
I do wish a very few of the MT whiners had your ability in affecting political issues instead of just whining here on the Fire as the world passes by them.
And Testor won't win again.
I think the tribes should do what they feel best for their lands and reservation. If that means expanding their bison herds, they should. The wind river reservation is looking to expand bison herds there.
Why should the Federal Goverment be spending money to increase tribal buffalo herds?
The same reason they spend money subsidizing ranchers and farmers.
Why should the Federal Goverment be spending money to increase tribal buffalo herds?
The same reason they spend money subsidizing ranchers and farmers.
The tribes don't pay taxes so what is your reason for giving them tax money to play buffalo farmer?
The irony is that BHA doesn't pay taxes either but are the first one with their hands out to grift the tax payers like ranchers and farmers.
At least farmers and ranchers do a lot every year for wildlife conservation and aren't actively involved in getting hunting seasons shut down and firearms banned like BHA. lmao
Are the buffalos considered livestock? Are they going to end up in slaughter houses. Or are they going to be treated as a protected species?
I think we all know the answer. Federal protection of animals Is the easiest way for greenies in conjunction with the government to take rights, water and land away from farmers and ranchers.
As someone who is always dealing with senior water rights being threatened and the .gov trying to revoke suposed irrevocable rights, I know the game too well. When that's the game, it's real science be damned. They'll make the science up as they go to support their agenda.
I suggest you Ranchers form a coalition and start fighting ASAP if that is what you really believe is happening.
Richard Berman hit piece, old news and he's been discredited time and time again.
Same guy that lobbies for Philip Morris tobacco to allow smoking in restaurants, etc.
Interestingly enough, his Center for Organizational Research and Education is a 501 c3.
Richard Berman and Will Coggin definitely appeal to the low information, low IQ people.
BTW, they need a new editor, Jon Tester did not run against "Danny" Rehberg...
Next...
Are you saying that there isn't any truth to any of what that piece says?
The funding sources are accurate, that information is no secret, they pulled those right from the IRS required financials. What's the problem?
Are you denying the work WYBHA has and is doing in Wyoming for habitat, wildlife, public access, hunting, fishing, and trapping?
The problem is in the old adage of "follow the money". Those organizations that have donated money expect something in return, no? They are not generally known as being very hunter friendly, are they?
Willing seller willing buyer is a complete canard by APR. Keep in mind APR is supported by the billionaire class, knowns include Jacqueline Mars of the Mars candy fortune. Also, the Haubs, Germans, they owned a big grocery chain in pre-Nazi Germany, took a big hit during the war, sent a son to AMERICA postwar to run A and P. Yep, they are pretty rich....but like Germans they really luff der cowboyes. Or the cowboy old west mythologies. APR therefore, doesn't need to make money, as along as the rich donors keep cutting fat checks. So right there they can outbid a for-profit rancher or even a humble trophy-ranch buyer -- and guess what else? As a corporation, they're IMMORTAL. Inheritance issues don't exist for them. Board members die and are replaced by some other checkbook. Further, there IS a ranch that was bought on the sly by APR, they fronted an LLC in Billings two days before the sale closed, and that corporation still sits on APR's books. The rancher who sold it is a friend of mine, the kind of rancher who is really good to have in your orbit. That Ken Burns prize? APR has to PAY Burns north of a half-million each year for the "prize" naming rights in order to attract the New York City money set to the prestigious awards dinner. And Burns is a hero to what demographic? There's lots more, you kids still sitting on the fence really need to look at this link --- yep, I wrote it, and APR hasn't sued. They can't, it's all public records. http://rangemagazine.com/features/fall-19/fa19-range-sr-critical_mass.pdf
Finally, the 25 million? That's Deb Haaland getting cash to the tribes, it's pure PC pork, while I don't have a problem with tribes getting bison and managing for both culture and profit, turns out Glacier Park is now making noise that they are receptive to Blackfeet bison on the east side of Glacier. Given the failures of Yellowstone to manage buffalo there, that's not good news. YNP utterly failed to control brucellosis, let it run riot, which is insane given that the disease came over from Crimea about the time of the big war there in the 1850s. In reality, bangs is an EXOTIC, Non Native disease and it was SO close to being totally eliminated from all of North America, including Mexico, in the early 1960s when "natural management" became the groove at the Park Service. It could have been dealt with by test and cull very easily back then, but no, now brucellosis is a political weapon being aimed at those darn ranchers in the "Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem." Somehow I think if these tribal herds get infected and thereby infect elk (documented) and the spread starts, the same class of eco-freak that has protested bison hunting outside Yellowstone will be chaining themselves to whatever object to "protect the planet," all to slobbering coverage by idiot media, helped by propagandist yobs like Buzzard.
Go on BHA's social media and read all of the comments by BHA members wanting ranches to be shut down in western states. They are openly hostile to the ranching culture. Its no secret
Originally Posted by Dave_Skinner
Willing seller willing buyer is a complete canard by APR. Keep in mind APR is supported by the billionaire class, knowns include Jacqueline Mars of the Mars candy fortune. Also, the Haubs, Germans, they owned a big grocery chain in pre-Nazi Germany, took a big hit during the war, sent a son to AMERICA postwar to run A and P. Yep, they are pretty rich....but like Germans they really luff der cowboyes. Or the cowboy old west mythologies. APR therefore, doesn't need to make money, as along as the rich donors keep cutting fat checks. So right there they can outbid a for-profit rancher or even a humble trophy-ranch buyer -- and guess what else? As a corporation, they're IMMORTAL. Inheritance issues don't exist for them. Board members die and are replaced by some other checkbook. Further, there IS a ranch that was bought on the sly by APR, they fronted an LLC in Billings two days before the sale closed, and that corporation still sits on APR's books. The rancher who sold it is a friend of mine, the kind of rancher who is really good to have in your orbit. That Ken Burns prize? APR has to PAY Burns north of a half-million each year for the "prize" naming rights in order to attract the New York City money set to the prestigious awards dinner. And Burns is a hero to what demographic? There's lots more, you kids still sitting on the fence really need to look at this link --- yep, I wrote it, and APR hasn't sued. They can't, it's all public records. http://rangemagazine.com/features/fall-19/fa19-range-sr-critical_mass.pdf
Finally, the 25 million? That's Deb Haaland getting cash to the tribes, it's pure PC pork, while I don't have a problem with tribes getting bison and managing for both culture and profit, turns out Glacier Park is now making noise that they are receptive to Blackfeet bison on the east side of Glacier. Given the failures of Yellowstone to manage buffalo there, that's not good news. YNP utterly failed to control brucellosis, let it run riot, which is insane given that the disease came over from Crimea about the time of the big war there in the 1850s. In reality, bangs is an EXOTIC, Non Native disease and it was SO close to being totally eliminated from all of North America, including Mexico, in the early 1960s when "natural management" became the groove at the Park Service. It could have been dealt with by test and cull very easily back then, but no, now brucellosis is a political weapon being aimed at those darn ranchers in the "Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem." Somehow I think if these tribal herds get infected and thereby infect elk (documented) and the spread starts, the same class of eco-freak that has protested bison hunting outside Yellowstone will be chaining themselves to whatever object to "protect the planet," all to slobbering coverage by idiot media, helped by propagandist yobs like Buzzard.
YNP utterly failed to control brucellosis, let it run riot, which is insane given that the disease came over from Crimea about the time of the big war there in the 1850s. In reality, bangs is an EXOTIC, Non Native disease and it was SO close to being totally eliminated from all of North America, including Mexico, in the early 1960s when "natural management" became the groove at the Park Service. It could have been dealt with by test and cull very easily back then, but no, now brucellosis is a political weapon being aimed at those darn ranchers in the "Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem." Somehow I think if these tribal herds get infected and thereby infect elk (documented) and the spread starts, the same class of eco-freak that has protested bison hunting outside Yellowstone will be chaining themselves to whatever object to "protect the planet," all to slobbering coverage by idiot media, helped by propagandist yobs like Buzzard.
Brucellosis could basically shut down the cattle industry in a state except for shipping directly to slaughter and even that could possibly be stopped. Might only take an executive order from President Newsome on the advice of his secretary of the USDA. Montana classifies bison as cattle, seems they could force the owners of bison into a brucellosis eradication program the same as my state of Louisiana did with cattle including the few bison in the state. All cattle were tested and the positives were turned into meat.
He's a damned Judas getting his bag of silver. No way you can be an outdoorsman and not see this zhitt coming a mile away. How long have we been fighting these liberal [bleep]? SMDH.
Just so you know, Buzz, like all evil in this world, your liberal friends will expect you to make the ultimate sacrifice once they're done using you like the useful idiot you are!
Lol - I quit reading at “indigenous knowledge”. Just because superstition and innuendo comes from a bunch of Indians doesn’t make it any more valid than that the belief that the black plague was caused by bad air, witchcraft and sorcery 700 years ago.
look at how the tribes treat their horses, cows and dogs and get back to me how they revere nature and are great stewards of wildlife and animals.
Also look up the stats of tribal members arrested and convicted of raping children and the number of registered sex offenders on tribal lands compared to the general US population and you'll see how capable they are of managing bison
just another racist BHA grift of US tax payers via reservations . No one is surprised buzzy is involved in this
He's a damned Judas getting his bag of silver. No way you can be an outdoorsman and not see this zhitt coming a mile away. How long have we been fighting these liberal [bleep]? SMDH.
Just so you know, Buzz, like all evil in this world, your liberal friends will expect you to make the ultimate sacrifice once they're done using you like the useful idiot you are!
I guess some just never learn.
I'll keep that in mind while I'm hunting 50-60 days a year.
look at how the tribes treat their horses, cows and dogs and get back to me how they revere nature and are great stewards of wildlife and animals.
Also look up the stats of tribal members arrested and convicted of raping children and the number of registered sex offenders on tribal lands compared to the general US population and you'll see how capable they are of managing bison
just another racist BHA grift of US tax payers via reservations . No one is surprised buzzy is involved in this
You think. Fun the tribe. Sad I was one of them years ago
No different......you are either retarded or deliberately obtuse.
Probably both.
Call Maryland Matt... 🤡
Yep....its both.
Ever find anything out about those leases you didn't know about but knew about but didn't want to seem like you knew about because you didn't atually know about them?
No different......you are either retarded or deliberately obtuse.
Probably both.
Call Maryland Matt... 🤡
Yep....its both.
Ever find anything out about those leases you didn't know about but knew about but didn't want to seem like you knew about because you didn't atually know about them?
No different......you are either retarded or deliberately obtuse.
Probably both.
Call Maryland Matt... 🤡
Yep....its both.
Ever find anything out about those leases you didn't know about but knew about but didn't want to seem like you knew about because you didn't atually know about them?
Nothing funnier than "Montana" citizens being represented by an east coast douchebag like Maryland Matt.
Nice work!
Tell him about your woes and get him to stop that money going to the tribes.
I mean he can shoot down a drone, but apparently not a 25 million dollar appropriation?
He's a damned Judas getting his bag of silver. No way you can be an outdoorsman and not see this zhitt coming a mile away. How long have we been fighting these liberal [bleep]? SMDH.
Just so you know, Buzz, like all evil in this world, your liberal friends will expect you to make the ultimate sacrifice once they're done using you like the useful idiot you are!
I guess some just never learn.
I'll keep that in mind while I'm hunting 50-60 days a year.
Nothing funnier than "Montana" citizens being represented by an east coast douchebag like Maryland Matt..
While it not funny I can think of something sadder.
A Montana native advocating for the introduction of wolves.
Then trying to stop the Wyoming Wolf Plan while still in Montana.
Then moving to Wyoming to enjoy the liberal elk hunting because of that Wyoming Wolf Plan while his native Montana suffers greatly reduced elk hunting.
He's a damned Judas getting his bag of silver. No way you can be an outdoorsman and not see this zhitt coming a mile away. How long have we been fighting these liberal [bleep]? SMDH.
Just so you know, Buzz, like all evil in this world, your liberal friends will expect you to make the ultimate sacrifice once they're done using you like the useful idiot you are!
I guess some just never learn.
I'll keep that in mind while I'm hunting 50-60 days a year.
LMAO! look at me I'm Buzzy.......
I must admit, it's pretty good being me. I'm probably sandbagging, I usually start hunting in mid August and go through January.
Nothing funnier than "Montana" citizens being represented by an east coast douchebag like Maryland Matt..
While it not funny I can think of something sadder.
A Montana native advocating for the introduction of wolves.
Then trying to stop the Wyoming Wolf Plan while still in Montana.
Then moving to Wyoming to enjoy the liberal elk hunting because of that Wyoming Wolf Plan while his native Montana suffers greatly reduced elk hunting.
Not really funny but sure enough sad.
According to the MTFWP there's more elk in Montana now than anytime in my life.
Go to the AP website. Read every staff bio, BOD bio and emeritus bio. Tell me those people are your friends and share your values. You can't and they don't.
If AP could accomplish their goals (land acquisitions, financial, bison herd size, etc) with out allowing hunting access, they would. They begrudgingly allow hunting because they have no choice. But, once goals are met, that is when it all changes.
Buzz is no useful idiot. He is a selfish narcissistic @sshole. He is playing along with all the big money because it benefits him now and will benefit him in the future.
Notice how buzz and tawney and ryan busse and sell outs like them, always go out of their way to make sure everyone knows they hunt and 'also own guns.'? Listen to the tawney and busse podcast. We hunt, we own guns....mentioned repeatedly. You know how often I am compelled to prove I am hunter or a gun owner? Never! Because I am not involved in backroom, two faced under handed nefarious [bleep]...like all of the aforementioned. And I don't align myself with groups and politicians that would gladly limit my rights.
Be very leary of anyone that comes out in strong support of AP. For example...Randy 'only I can pimp the public resource' Newberg.
Go to the AP website. Read every staff bio, BOD bio and emeritus bio. Tell me those people are your friends and share your values. You can't and they don't.
If AP could accomplish their goals (land acquisitions, financial, bison herd size, etc) with out allowing hunting access, they would. They begrudgingly allow hunting because they have no choice. But, once goals are met, that is when it all changes.
Buzz is no useful idiot. He is a selfish narcissistic @sshole. He is playing along with all the big money because it benefits him now and will benefit him in the future.
Notice how buzz and tawney and ryan busse and sell outs like them, always go out of their way to make sure everyone knows they hunt and 'also own guns.'? Listen to the tawney and busse podcast. We hunt, we own guns....mentioned repeatedly. You know how often I am compelled to prove I am hunter or a gun owner? Never! Because I am not involved in backroom, two faced under handed nefarious [bleep]...like all of the aforementioned. And I don't align myself with groups and politicians that would gladly limit my rights.
Be very leary of anyone that comes out in strong support of AP. For example...Randy 'only I can pimp the public resource' Newberg.
All conjecture, AP has done nothing but promote hunting on all their properties, improved access to formerly landlocked public lands, and has unlimited recreational access on their property. I see nothing that gives me pause to think that's not going to continue into perpetuity.
They don't "begrudgingly" allow hunting, if they were opposed to it, they wouldn't be allowing it...they don't owe you or anyone else a shred of access. You know, they could lock it all up like the previous owners did.
Best thing to ever happen in that country and they will achieve their goals and the breaks will be a better place for it.
All from AP property or public lands accessed through AP:
Meh...digging deep is 26 days in the North Fork of the Shoshone looking at rams...before pulling the trigger at 100 yards, on a bedded 9 year old ram with only a few days left in the season.
Good news about AP is they will not (significantly) reduce access until their goals are met. And, they will not meet their goals. The properties they own are very fragmented, they are not popular locally, they are on everyone's radar, they will eventually run out of willing sellers and eventually the big money coastal donors will get tired of bannkrolling this project in the middle of bfe. It will take help from the state and feds to pull it off.
I am fine with willing buyer/willing seller. Hunted bison in the Henries, like the idea of wild bison herds. In this case though, more to dislike than like and I don't trust the financiers. Also I try and stear clear of anything endorsed by buzz, bha, gungrabber busse, tawney and Randy 'only I can pimp the public resource' Newberg.
Good news about AP is they will not (significantly) reduce access until their goals are met. And, they will not meet their goals. The properties they own are very fragmented, they are not popular locally, they are on everyone's radar, they will eventually run out of willing sellers and eventually the big money coastal donors will get tired of bannkrolling this project in the middle of bfe. It will take help from the state and feds to pull it off.
I am fine with willing buyer/willing seller. Hunted bison in the Henries, like the idea of wild bison herds. In this case though, more to dislike than like and I don't trust the financiers. Also I try and stear clear of anything endorsed by buzz, bha, gungrabber busse, tawney and Randy 'only I can pimp the public resource' Newberg.
Yeah.... sure.
They acquire more land every year. AP is playing the long game.
Go to the AP website. Read every staff bio, BOD bio and emeritus bio. Tell me those people are your friends and share your values. You can't and they don't.
If AP could accomplish their goals (land acquisitions, financial, bison herd size, etc) with out allowing hunting access, they would. They begrudgingly allow hunting because they have no choice. But, once goals are met, that is when it all changes.
Buzz is no useful idiot. He is a selfish narcissistic @sshole. He is playing along with all the big money because it benefits him now and will benefit him in the future.
The best indicator of Buzz’s personality is the combative nature of his responses here. So he IS a useful idiot, but one that benefits those of us skeptical of this whole deal.
Whoever *actually* runs this deal and does the hiring, the whole AP deal is staffed in a bewildering array of titles for the most part by young to middle-aged women, typically not a staunch Conservative voting block.
Referencing Hilary Clinton right off on the Staff page doesn’t help either “It takes a village to protect a prairie”……..
It is hugely significant that Buzz avoids the question of where the funding comes from. There is an overt Soros guy (Keith Anderson) on the Nation Board of Directors.
I wonder if "the long game" includes buying up millions upon millions of acres and locking out hunters to preserve the "American Prairie" and its Buffalo once they obtain the amount of property they seek?
I also wonder the chances of that being disclosed by the organization before they have a contiguous prairie....I'm guessing close to 0.
I hope that's not the case.
Now back to sabrina king, did she volunteer for Wyoming bha? Or was she paid? Perhaps it was volunteer work as I'm sure the aclu pays quite well
Why should the Federal Goverment be spending money to increase tribal buffalo herds?
The same reason they spend money subsidizing ranchers and farmers.
To feed the populace?
With bison?
You really are as stupid as you appear.
That one had me scratching my head too. The government subsidizes all kinds of stuff that we all take for granted. Like the home building industry and home buyers, as well as agriculture.
I have zero problem with either of those, and I get zero direct benefit from either. But the thing is, those subsidies are basically good for everyone, and good for the economy as a whole. Our agricultural production capacity is one of our strengths.
Raising buffalo on reservations isn't in the same realm.
He's a damned Judas getting his bag of silver. No way you can be an outdoorsman and not see this zhitt coming a mile away. How long have we been fighting these liberal [bleep]? SMDH.
Just so you know, Buzz, like all evil in this world, your liberal friends will expect you to make the ultimate sacrifice once they're done using you like the useful idiot you are!
I guess some just never learn.
I'll keep that in mind while I'm hunting 50-60 days a year.
LMAO! look at me I'm Buzzy.......
I must admit, it's pretty good being me. I'm probably sandbagging, I usually start hunting in mid August and go through January.
Enjoy your bag of silver. What a POS you are!
Ever asked yourself how all of these ranchers are so anxious to sell to your socialist masters at AP? What filthy zhitt have they done to force these people to sell, I wonder?
Good news about AP is they will not (significantly) reduce access until their goals are met. And, they will not meet their goals. The properties they own are very fragmented, they are not popular locally, they are on everyone's radar, they will eventually run out of willing sellers and eventually the big money coastal donors will get tired of bannkrolling this project in the middle of bfe. It will take help from the state and feds to pull it off.
I am fine with willing buyer/willing seller. Hunted bison in the Henries, like the idea of wild bison herds. In this case though, more to dislike than like and I don't trust the financiers. Also I try and stear clear of anything endorsed by buzz, bha, gungrabber busse, tawney and Randy 'only I can pimp the public resource' Newberg.
Yeah.... sure.
They acquire more land every year. AP is playing the long game.
Yes. Bilking ignorant bleeding heart types into donating money for "conservation" while the real goal is real estate development in the western side of the state.
Why should the Federal Goverment be spending money to increase tribal buffalo herds?
The same reason they spend money subsidizing ranchers and farmers.
To feed the populace?
With bison?
You really are as stupid as you appear.
That one had me scratching my head too. The government subsidizes all kinds of stuff that we all take for granted. Like the home building industry and home buyers, as well as agriculture.
I have zero problem with either of those, and I get zero direct benefit from either. But the thing is, those subsidies are basically good for everyone, and good for the economy as a whole. Our agricultural production capacity is one of our strengths.
Raising buffalo on reservations isn't in the same realm.
Not in the same scale, but certainly in the same realm. Tell me how local businesses, economies, etc. are not going to benefit when tribes have bison herds. Tourism, hunting, sale of meat, etc. etc. from having bison.
He's a damned Judas getting his bag of silver. No way you can be an outdoorsman and not see this zhitt coming a mile away. How long have we been fighting these liberal [bleep]? SMDH.
Just so you know, Buzz, like all evil in this world, your liberal friends will expect you to make the ultimate sacrifice once they're done using you like the useful idiot you are!
I guess some just never learn.
I'll keep that in mind while I'm hunting 50-60 days a year.
LMAO! look at me I'm Buzzy.......
I must admit, it's pretty good being me. I'm probably sandbagging, I usually start hunting in mid August and go through January.
Enjoy your bag of silver. What a POS you are!
Ever asked yourself how all of these ranchers are so anxious to sell to your socialist masters at AP? What filthy zhitt have they done to force these people to sell, I wonder?
The prior owner of blueridge, Will Carlson and his Son, got tired of paying poaching fines...
MALTA, Mont. – Members of a Minnesota family that owns property in southern Phillips County have agreed to pay $50,000 in restitution and fines for illegal baiting of big-game animals, hunting without licenses and/or permits, outfitting and other wildlife-related crimes.
Albert “Will” Carlson, 67, owner of the Blue Ridge Ranch in the Larb Hills area south of Malta, and son Todd Anthony Carlson, 41, of the Minneapolis suburb of Inver Grove Heights, recently pleaded guilty to multiple misdemeanor charges in Phillips County Justice Court.
In total, the Carlson family was ordered to pay a total of $42,615 in restitution to the state of Montana and $7,385 in fines. Albert “Will” Carlson and Todd Carlson will forfeit their hunting, fishing and trapping privileges for three years in Montana and states involved in the wildlife violator compact. Another son, Troy Albert Carlson, 45, and Sandra Pearl Carlson, 49, also of Inver Grove Heights, will not be allowed to hunt in Montana for three years.
In addition, the family: cannot accompany other hunters in the field during the period of their privilege revocations and/or suspensions; forfeited any future right to work as licensed outfitters or guides in Montana; forfeited any right to benefit financially from the sale of the outfitting business associated with their ranch property; forfeited seized property, including a full-size body mount of a bighorn sheep and a trophy class, shoulder-mount bull elk. In the fall of 2008, Dirk Paulsen, a Malta based field warden with Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks (FWP), began investigating complaints of the Carlsons allegedly leading illegal elk hunts at baited sites within the ranch, which borders the Charles M. Russell National Wildlife Refuge and the U.S. Bureau of Land Management’s Burnt Lodge Wilderness Study Area.
Albert “Will” Carlson, who is not a legal resident of Montana, had arranged for a hunting outfitter to become his license sponsor, as well as his employer. The Carlsons then became licensed guides -- as well as clients -- under the outfitter.
This business arrangement opened the door for the ranch to have a steady supply of guaranteed, outfitter-sponsored hunting licenses that were then made available to Carlson family friends and business associates. In all, this resulted in about 40 out-of-state clients a year obtaining the licenses, as well as exclusive rights to hunt the Blue Ridge Ranch for trophy bull elk.
A search warrant from the Montana 12th Judicial District Court allowed Paulsen and fellow FWP Warden Mike Lee of Malta to use video surveillance of suspected baiting stations, which were strategically placed near elevated hunting stands on the ranch. The illegal baiting led to an artificial concentration of game animals near the hunters.
Further investigation revealed a variety of criminal violations, including the hunting of big-game animals without valid licenses and other outfitting-related infractions. Additional illegal luring, baiting and feeding of elk were documented through video surveillance.
Last October, other District Court search warrants were served on the Carlsons and their outfitter by wardens from FWP Regions 4, 6, and 7, as well as officers from the U.S. Bureau of Land Management, the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service and the Phillips County Sheriff’s Office. Information and evidence collected during the search led to dozens of other nonresident suspects in Minnesota and Wisconsin.
Evidence seized during the search included oats, salt blocks, trail cameras containing images of the hunters with illegally harvested game animals, outfitter records and licenses, among other items.
Misdemeanor criminal citations were issued to Albert “Will” Carlson and Todd Carlson for the illegal use of radios for hunting; the use of trail cameras for illegally tracking big game during the hunting season; hunting of game animals with the use of bait; feeding game animals; and soliciting the hunting of game animals with the use of bait, among other outfitting-related charges.
Earlier this year, Montana wardens went to Minnesota and Wisconsin and conducted nearly 50 interviews with hunters who were suspected of illegally killing or illegally possessing elk that had been taken from the ranch. The Montana wardens were assisted by officers from Minnesota and Wisconsin’s state wildlife agencies. Paulsen said charges are still pending against 11 out-of-state residents and the outfitter.
During the investigation, an illegal full-body bighorn sheep mount was also discovered in the Blue Ridge Ranch’s hunting lodge. An interview with a taxidermist in Minnesota led to him admitting that he’d prepared the mount for the Carlson family after the 2008 season, even though the taxidermist knew the animal was unlawfully possessed.
The Blue Ridge Ranch cases were prosecuted by Steve Gannon of the Chouteau County Attorney’s Office and Kathleen Jenks of the Montana Attorney General’s Office. '
buzzy used to work for ted turner. sure BHA is for hunters. lol.
who believes this BHA grift?
Turner's buffalo fences causing a stir at Robb Creek
By Perry Backus, of The Montana Standard.
ALDER -- No one will ever know for certain what killed the elk whose bones lay bleached on a ridge that separates a parcel of state land from the Robb Creek Wildlife Game Range.
But the sportsmen from Butte and Anaconda standing under a cloudless sky think they have a pretty good idea: They point to the twisted wire at both the top and bottom of the fence that cuts through the middle of the ridge. Their tapes measure the top wire at 60 inches. The bottom wire is less than a foot high.
"That's what killed it,'' said Jack Atcheson Sr. of Butte, nodding toward the fence. "It couldn't go over it or under it.''
On this day, the men say they counted 13 animal carcasses on the state lands' side of the fence within a mile of each other. The fact the elk and deer were just inches from property supported by sportsmen's dollars to provide winter feed makes their deaths even more unpalatable.
The fence was built to control bison from Ted Turner's Snowcrest Ranch in the Upper Ruby near Alder. It is part of miles of similar fence that surrounds the media mogul's massive ranch holdings in Montana.
Turner's general ranch manager, Russ Miller, says the fence is needed to keep bison from escaping.
"We have an obligation to control our live stock,'' says Miller. "Bison can jump. We've had numerous reports of them clearing six feet.''
buzzy used to work for ted turner. sure BHA is for hunters. lol.
who believes this BHA grift?
Turner's buffalo fences causing a stir at Robb Creek
By Perry Backus, of The Montana Standard.
ALDER -- No one will ever know for certain what killed the elk whose bones lay bleached on a ridge that separates a parcel of state land from the Robb Creek Wildlife Game Range.
But the sportsmen from Butte and Anaconda standing under a cloudless sky think they have a pretty good idea: They point to the twisted wire at both the top and bottom of the fence that cuts through the middle of the ridge. Their tapes measure the top wire at 60 inches. The bottom wire is less than a foot high.
"That's what killed it,'' said Jack Atcheson Sr. of Butte, nodding toward the fence. "It couldn't go over it or under it.''
On this day, the men say they counted 13 animal carcasses on the state lands' side of the fence within a mile of each other. The fact the elk and deer were just inches from property supported by sportsmen's dollars to provide winter feed makes their deaths even more unpalatable.
The fence was built to control bison from Ted Turner's Snowcrest Ranch in the Upper Ruby near Alder. It is part of miles of similar fence that surrounds the media mogul's massive ranch holdings in Montana.
Turner's general ranch manager, Russ Miller, says the fence is needed to keep bison from escaping.
"We have an obligation to control our live stock,'' says Miller. "Bison can jump. We've had numerous reports of them clearing six feet.''
Forget to post the rest of the article?
'Miller says the fence design is a product of "trial and error'' over a number of years that included consultation with both state and federal biologists in an effort to consider the needs of wildlife.
"We've always been as wildlife friendly as pos sible,'' he said. "We stand on our record on the different efforts we've made for wildlife ... there is no way we'd do anything that would harm wildlife intentionally.''
Turner isn't alone in building fences that might seem out of place in a state where the fourstrand barbed wire has become the standard. The Butte and Anaconda sportsmen worry about the potential for wildlife -- which is a public resource -- to become privatized if landowners built fences that trap animals on private lands.
"When there's no free movement of wildlife, what's in there becomes his,'' said Tony Schoonen of Ramsay. "It's no longer the public's.''
"We're not just talking about this one place,'' said Atcheson. "These kinds of fences have the potential to set a precedent that could apply to the whole state. If landowners can own the wildlife, their land is suddenly worth a whole lot more money.''
But for Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks' Fred King, whose job is to ensure that wildlife and sportsmen will be able to continue to use state-owned game ranges like Robb Creek, the task is more immediate.
The Robb Creek Game Range, which was acquired following a land exchange with Turner, has acres that border lands being grazed by Turner's bison. And as important as it is that wildlife can find its way onto the winter range, King also has to come up with a plan that will keep bison off of it.
"What we have here is a New Age landown er with a new grazing animal, the bison, that need a different kind of fence to make it stay put,'' said King. "The challenge we have is to find a fence that will both allow wildlife to move and keep the bison off the game range.''
"We are going to have to deal with this thing and we can't deal with it by simply saying no,'' he said.
Fences have a long and controversial history across the West. It wasn't many years after the first cattle arrived in the state to feed hun gry miners that fences began to appear. And laws soon followed about what could be fenced and how it could be done.
Sportsmen like Atcheson and Schoonen say the state isn't living up to its responsibilities in upholding those laws. The state, particularly the Montana Department of Natural Resources and Conservation, doesn't go far enough in considering the ramifications of "bison-proof'' fences, they say.
In particular, they point to Montana law which requires a fence to measure not less than 44 inches or more than 48 inches high and not less than 15 inches or more than 18 inches from the ground. They say that Turner and other bison ranchers' fences don't meet those requirements.
Dave Mousel, a DNRC land management supervisor, said that agency did an environmental analysis before giving Turner Enterprises the green light to build the fences on state lands.
"We do our best to try to balance the needs of the permittee and other resources,'' Mousel said.
The state required Turner to build gates that were intended to be open after each grazing season, he said. In other areas, the top wire was to be slackened to allow better opportunities for wildlife to jump the fences, said Mousel.
As far as the height standards stated in state law, Mousel said he understood those to be minimum requirements.
In the years that Turner has owned the Snowcrest Ranch, ranch manager Russ Miller said miles of old woven fence used to control sheep have been cleaned up. Those have been replaced by high-tensile smooth wire, which Miller says is more wildlife friendly.
For instance, Miller said the woven wire topped with two strands of barbed wire along the Upper Ruby road on the Snowcrest Ranch used to kill between 25 and 50 deer each year after their back legs would become entangled.
Miller said Snowcrest Ranch manager Dave Dixon told him that three deer wrapped up in the wire this year and two were able to get away.
Miller said there is no way to know for certain what killed those animals the sportsmen saw near the Robb Creek Game Range. He said he'd heard the numbers were actually smaller and that maybe snowmobilers chasing game were to blame.
"We're not trying to get rid of bison,'' said Atcheson. "You just have to understand that wildlife was here before Ted Turner.''
"What happens here has the potential of happening throughout the state, especially when you consider the value of wildlife,'' he said. "This could lead to some big changes that could have a tremendous impact on the state.''
"It's going to be sportsmen that will have to keep watch,'' said Atcheson, said looking back at the fence. "This is just ridiculous ... to have this kind of fence right up against a game range.''
I see Indians can still trap in NM but got the white man banned
great job BHA
The bill does not apply to trapping on private lands or tribal lands. However, it allows Native Americans to continue trapping on public lands to harvest animals for “ceremonial or religious purposes.”
Former Firearms Executive and BHA leader Ryan Busse Joins Giffords to Combat Gun Lobby Radicalization and Advance Responsible Gun Ownership
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by ribka
buzzy used to work for ted turner. sure BHA is for hunters. lol.
who believes this BHA grift?
Turner's buffalo fences causing a stir at Robb Creek
By Perry Backus, of The Montana Standard.
ALDER -- No one will ever know for certain what killed the elk whose bones lay bleached on a ridge that separates a parcel of state land from the Robb Creek Wildlife Game Range.
But the sportsmen from Butte and Anaconda standing under a cloudless sky think they have a pretty good idea: They point to the twisted wire at both the top and bottom of the fence that cuts through the middle of the ridge. Their tapes measure the top wire at 60 inches. The bottom wire is less than a foot high.
"That's what killed it,'' said Jack Atcheson Sr. of Butte, nodding toward the fence. "It couldn't go over it or under it.''
On this day, the men say they counted 13 animal carcasses on the state lands' side of the fence within a mile of each other. The fact the elk and deer were just inches from property supported by sportsmen's dollars to provide winter feed makes their deaths even more unpalatable.
The fence was built to control bison from Ted Turner's Snowcrest Ranch in the Upper Ruby near Alder. It is part of miles of similar fence that surrounds the media mogul's massive ranch holdings in Montana.
Turner's general ranch manager, Russ Miller, says the fence is needed to keep bison from escaping.
"We have an obligation to control our live stock,'' says Miller. "Bison can jump. We've had numerous reports of them clearing six feet.''
Forget to post the rest of the article?
'Miller says the fence design is a product of "trial and error'' over a number of years that included consultation with both state and federal biologists in an effort to consider the needs of wildlife.
"We've always been as wildlife friendly as pos sible,'' he said. "We stand on our record on the different efforts we've made for wildlife ... there is no way we'd do anything that would harm wildlife intentionally.''
Turner isn't alone in building fences that might seem out of place in a state where the fourstrand barbed wire has become the standard. The Butte and Anaconda sportsmen worry about the potential for wildlife -- which is a public resource -- to become privatized if landowners built fences that trap animals on private lands.
"When there's no free movement of wildlife, what's in there becomes his,'' said Tony Schoonen of Ramsay. "It's no longer the public's.''
"We're not just talking about this one place,'' said Atcheson. "These kinds of fences have the potential to set a precedent that could apply to the whole state. If landowners can own the wildlife, their land is suddenly worth a whole lot more money.''
But for Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks' Fred King, whose job is to ensure that wildlife and sportsmen will be able to continue to use state-owned game ranges like Robb Creek, the task is more immediate.
The Robb Creek Game Range, which was acquired following a land exchange with Turner, has acres that border lands being grazed by Turner's bison. And as important as it is that wildlife can find its way onto the winter range, King also has to come up with a plan that will keep bison off of it.
"What we have here is a New Age landown er with a new grazing animal, the bison, that need a different kind of fence to make it stay put,'' said King. "The challenge we have is to find a fence that will both allow wildlife to move and keep the bison off the game range.''
"We are going to have to deal with this thing and we can't deal with it by simply saying no,'' he said.
Fences have a long and controversial history across the West. It wasn't many years after the first cattle arrived in the state to feed hun gry miners that fences began to appear. And laws soon followed about what could be fenced and how it could be done.
Sportsmen like Atcheson and Schoonen say the state isn't living up to its responsibilities in upholding those laws. The state, particularly the Montana Department of Natural Resources and Conservation, doesn't go far enough in considering the ramifications of "bison-proof'' fences, they say.
In particular, they point to Montana law which requires a fence to measure not less than 44 inches or more than 48 inches high and not less than 15 inches or more than 18 inches from the ground. They say that Turner and other bison ranchers' fences don't meet those requirements.
Dave Mousel, a DNRC land management supervisor, said that agency did an environmental analysis before giving Turner Enterprises the green light to build the fences on state lands.
"We do our best to try to balance the needs of the permittee and other resources,'' Mousel said.
The state required Turner to build gates that were intended to be open after each grazing season, he said. In other areas, the top wire was to be slackened to allow better opportunities for wildlife to jump the fences, said Mousel.
As far as the height standards stated in state law, Mousel said he understood those to be minimum requirements.
In the years that Turner has owned the Snowcrest Ranch, ranch manager Russ Miller said miles of old woven fence used to control sheep have been cleaned up. Those have been replaced by high-tensile smooth wire, which Miller says is more wildlife friendly.
For instance, Miller said the woven wire topped with two strands of barbed wire along the Upper Ruby road on the Snowcrest Ranch used to kill between 25 and 50 deer each year after their back legs would become entangled.
Miller said Snowcrest Ranch manager Dave Dixon told him that three deer wrapped up in the wire this year and two were able to get away.
Miller said there is no way to know for certain what killed those animals the sportsmen saw near the Robb Creek Game Range. He said he'd heard the numbers were actually smaller and that maybe snowmobilers chasing game were to blame.
"We're not trying to get rid of bison,'' said Atcheson. "You just have to understand that wildlife was here before Ted Turner.''
"What happens here has the potential of happening throughout the state, especially when you consider the value of wildlife,'' he said. "This could lead to some big changes that could have a tremendous impact on the state.''
"It's going to be sportsmen that will have to keep watch,'' said Atcheson, said looking back at the fence. "This is just ridiculous ... to have this kind of fence right up against a game range.''
Why should the Federal Goverment be spending money to increase tribal buffalo herds?
The same reason they spend money subsidizing ranchers and farmers.
To feed the populace?
With bison?
You really are as stupid as you appear.
That one had me scratching my head too. The government subsidizes all kinds of stuff that we all take for granted. Like the home building industry and home buyers, as well as agriculture.
I have zero problem with either of those, and I get zero direct benefit from either. But the thing is, those subsidies are basically good for everyone, and good for the economy as a whole. Our agricultural production capacity is one of our strengths.
Raising buffalo on reservations isn't in the same realm.
Not in the same scale, but certainly in the same realm. Tell me how local businesses, economies, etc. are not going to benefit when tribes have bison herds. Tourism, hunting, sale of meat, etc. etc. from having bison.
Apples and oranges, and you know it, but you get so deeply invested in your own BS you just keep digging...
Oh, and BTW fibka, one of the first advocacy things I got involved with was with Jack Atcheson Sr., changing Montana law to allow hunters and fisherman to access state lands. Prior to that, the lessee could keep the public off State lands.
I also worked with the DNRC, FWP and Dave Dixon (Snowcrest Ranch Manager) to solve the alleged fencing issues. Wasn't a big deal and in the 2 years I worked on the Snowcrest, Redrock, and D, I never found a single animal hung in a fence before or after the improvements.
Dave told me the same thing as what's quoted in the article, in a year, he found 3 and 2 of them he released, all whitetail deer.
Oh, and BTW fibka, one of the first advocacy things I got involved with was with Jack Atcheson Sr., changing Montana law to allow hunters and fisherman to access state lands. Prior to that, the lessee could keep the public off State lands.
I also worked with the DNRC, FWP and Dave Dixon (Snowcrest Ranch Manager) to solve the alleged fencing issues. Wasn't a big deal and in the 2 years I worked on the Snowcrest, Redrock, and D, I never found a single animal hung in a fence before or after the improvements.
Dave told me the same thing as what's quoted in the article, in a year, he found 3 and 2 of them he released, all whitetail deer.
buzzy why does BHA donate so many of their resources to support radical anti hunting whack jobs for political positions?
that's funny buzzy. BHA members on your social media want trapping and predator hunting banned just you like you want firearms banned on your social media posts
Yeah, I remember that thread and the list of Sportsman's orgs that sent a letter to congress asking to approve her appointment:
American Woodcock Society Archery Trade Association Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies Bear Trust International Boone and Crockett Club Camp Fire Club of America Catch-A-Dream Foundation Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation Conservation Force Council to Advance Hunting and the Shooting Sports Dallas Safari Club Delta Waterfowl Ducks Unlimited Houston Safari Club Izaak Walton League of America Masters of Foxhounds Association Mule Deer Foundation National Bobwhite Conservation Initiative National Deer Association National Shooting Sports Foundation National Wild Turkey Federation National Wildlife Federation North American Falconers Association North American Grouse Partnership Orion: The Hunter’s Institute Pheasants Forever Pope & Young Club Quail Forever Ruffed Grouse Society Texas Wildlife Association The Conservation Fund Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership Wildlife Forever Wildlife Management Institute Wild Sheep Foundation
Wow....all those green decoy's in one convenient list.
Careful mister, she’ll post another pic. Totally proving the fact the rez’s need more stolen tax money give. To them to ostensibly breed more bison they can’t manage.
American Woodcock Society Archery Trade Association Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies Bear Trust International Boone and Crockett Club Camp Fire Club of America Catch-A-Dream Foundation Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation Conservation Force Council to Advance Hunting and the Shooting Sports Dallas Safari Club Delta Waterfowl Ducks Unlimited Houston Safari Club Izaak Walton League of America Masters of Foxhounds Association Mule Deer Foundation National Bobwhite Conservation Initiative National Deer Association National Shooting Sports Foundation National Wild Turkey Federation National Wildlife Federation North American Falconers Association North American Grouse Partnership Orion: The Hunter’s Institute Pheasants Forever Pope & Young Club Quail Forever Ruffed Grouse Society Texas Wildlife Association The Conservation Fund Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership Wildlife Forever Wildlife Management Institute Wild Sheep Foundation
The BHA website indicates that you donated zero resources to fight this. How much of your millions were used to defend sportsmen in Washington? What a joke BHA is
Buzzy so did BHA leadership get paid millions to work for the world's largest and most powerful gun lobby? lmao
I'm guessing you're a commie...since you clearly are so against something as American as private property rights...well that and anyone with more money than you.
Buzzy so did BHA leadership get paid millions to work for the world's largest and most powerful gun lobby? lmao
I'm guessing you're a commie...since you clearly are so against something as American as private property rights...well that and anyone with more money than you.
Ill take that as a "yes".
Wow what a corrupt grifting schit show BHA is
How much did BHA spend of the millions in your resources on fighting hunting bans and defending sportsmen in court in NM, WA, CA, CO?
Buzzy so did BHA leadership get paid millions to work for the world's largest and most powerful gun lobby? lmao
I'm guessing you're a commie...since you clearly are so against something as American as private property rights...well that and anyone with more money than you.
Ill take that as a "yes".
Wow what a corrupt grifting schit show BHA is
How much did BHA spend of the millions in your resources on fighting hunting bans and defending sportsmen in court in NM, WA, CA, CO?
With your contempt for private property rights and hatred of people with money...I'll take that as a yes for your communist affiliation.
Go to the AP website. Read every staff bio, BOD bio and emeritus bio. Tell me those people are your friends and share your values. You can't and they don't.
If AP could accomplish their goals (land acquisitions, financial, bison herd size, etc) with out allowing hunting access, they would. They begrudgingly allow hunting because they have no choice. But, once goals are met, that is when it all changes.
Buzz is no useful idiot. He is a selfish narcissistic @sshole. He is playing along with all the big money because it benefits him now and will benefit him in the future.
Notice how buzz and tawney and ryan busse and sell outs like them, always go out of their way to make sure everyone knows they hunt and 'also own guns.'? Listen to the tawney and busse podcast. We hunt, we own guns....mentioned repeatedly. You know how often I am compelled to prove I am hunter or a gun owner? Never! Because I am not involved in backroom, two faced under handed nefarious [bleep]...like all of the aforementioned. And I don't align myself with groups and politicians that would gladly limit my rights.
Be very leary of anyone that comes out in strong support of AP. For example...Randy 'only I can pimp the public resource' Newberg.
All conjecture, AP has done nothing but promote hunting on all their properties, improved access to formerly landlocked public lands, and has unlimited recreational access on their property. I see nothing that gives me pause to think that's not going to continue into perpetuity.
They don't "begrudgingly" allow hunting, if they were opposed to it, they wouldn't be allowing it...they don't owe you or anyone else a shred of access. You know, they could lock it all up like the previous owners did.
Best thing to ever happen in that country and they will achieve their goals and the breaks will be a better place for it.
All from AP property or public lands accessed through AP:
You're a selective reader Buzz, and lack discernment.
So BHA supports ecoterrorists that spike trees on public lands despite the fact many people in rural areas heat their homes with firewood collected on public lands
What is Tree Spiking? Mary McMahon Mary McMahon Last Modified Date: March 01, 2023
Tree spiking is a type of ecotage which is intended to prevent loggers from taking trees. In the United States, it is a federal felony, as of 1988. While spiking is still practiced, it is highly controversial among many environmental activists, with some organizations even split in opinion from within. Many opponents of tree spiking argue that the practice is extremely dangerous and potentially highly alienating, while supporters argue that it makes logging much more difficult, thereby forming an effective method of protest.
As long as billionaires line your corrupt BHA pockets anything is justifiable
Good news about AP is they will not (significantly) reduce access until their goals are met. And, they will not meet their goals. The properties they own are very fragmented, they are not popular locally, they are on everyone's radar, they will eventually run out of willing sellers and eventually the big money coastal donors will get tired of bannkrolling this project in the middle of bfe. It will take help from the state and feds to pull it off.
I am fine with willing buyer/willing seller. Hunted bison in the Henries, like the idea of wild bison herds. In this case though, more to dislike than like and I don't trust the financiers. Also I try and stear clear of anything endorsed by buzz, bha, gungrabber busse, tawney and Randy 'only I can pimp the public resource' Newberg.
I take it we aren't talking about bison anymore...
It's never been about the bison. Its about the money attached to the management of bison ( tens of millions of dollars) and in whose pockets the millions of dollars of US tax payer will end up and manipulating public land policy and usage.
Appears BHA is masquerading as a public use, sportsmen organization again for a money grab and use this money to support gun bans and attack ranching culture in the west
Its BHA grifters jobs like anti gun activist and BHA leader Buzzh to go on social media and lie and confuse the issue like always
Why should the Federal Goverment be spending money to increase tribal buffalo herds?
The same reason they spend money subsidizing ranchers and farmers.
To feed the populace?
With bison?
You really are as stupid as you appear.
That one had me scratching my head too. The government subsidizes all kinds of stuff that we all take for granted. Like the home building industry and home buyers, as well as agriculture.
I have zero problem with either of those, and I get zero direct benefit from either. But the thing is, those subsidies are basically good for everyone, and good for the economy as a whole. Our agricultural production capacity is one of our strengths.
Raising buffalo on reservations isn't in the same realm.
Not in the same scale, but certainly in the same realm. Tell me how local businesses, economies, etc. are not going to benefit when tribes have bison herds. Tourism, hunting, sale of meat, etc. etc. from having bison.
I take it we aren't talking about bison anymore...
It's never been about the bison. Its about the money attached to the management of bison ( tens of millions of dollars) and in whose pockets the millions of dollars of US tax payer will end up and manipulating public land policy and usage.
Appears BHA is masquerading as a public use, sportsmen organization again for a money grab and use this money to support gun bans and attack ranching culture in the west
Its BHA grifters jobs like anti gun activist and BHA leader Buzzh to go on social media and lie and confuse the issue like always
scratch the surface of Buzzy and BHA and you just have to laugh at his lies on here
Just grifting off of the millions the tribes receive every year. You think one would be ashamed of this behavior
Originally Posted by AB2506
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by rockinbbar
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Why should the Federal Goverment be spending money to increase tribal buffalo herds?
The same reason they spend money subsidizing ranchers and farmers.
To feed the populace?
With bison?
You really are as stupid as you appear.
That one had me scratching my head too. The government subsidizes all kinds of stuff that we all take for granted. Like the home building industry and home buyers, as well as agriculture.
I have zero problem with either of those, and I get zero direct benefit from either. But the thing is, those subsidies are basically good for everyone, and good for the economy as a whole. Our agricultural production capacity is one of our strengths.
Raising buffalo on reservations isn't in the same realm.
Not in the same scale, but certainly in the same realm. Tell me how local businesses, economies, etc. are not going to benefit when tribes have bison herds. Tourism, hunting, sale of meat, etc. etc. from having bison.
I take it we aren't talking about bison anymore...
It's never been about the bison. Its about the money attached to the management of bison ( tens of millions of dollars) and in whose pockets the millions of dollars of US tax payer will end up and manipulating public land policy and usage.
Appears BHA is masquerading as a public use, sportsmen organization again for a money grab and use this money to support gun bans and attack ranching culture in the west
Its BHA grifters jobs like anti gun activist and BHA leader Buzzh to go on social media and lie and confuse the issue like always
I take it we aren't talking about bison anymore...
It's never been about the bison. Its about the money attached to the management of bison ( tens of millions of dollars) and in whose pockets the millions of dollars of US tax payer will end up and manipulating public land policy and usage.
Appears BHA is masquerading as a public use, sportsmen organization again for a money grab and use this money to support gun bans and attack ranching culture in the west
Its BHA grifters jobs like anti gun activist and BHA leader Buzzh to go on social media and lie and confuse the issue like always
Green decoy groups do advocate for hunters and outdoorsmen, which is why they get sportsmen to donate and support their cause.
The problem arises when they then use their influence and money to support liberal politicians and gun control.
Buzz is the perfect example, no one can deny that he is a hunters advocate. No one can deny that he also advocates for liberals and gun control groups.
Yeah, I remember that thread and the list of Sportsman's orgs that sent a letter to congress asking to approve her appointment:
American Woodcock Society Archery Trade Association Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies Bear Trust International Boone and Crockett Club Camp Fire Club of America Catch-A-Dream Foundation Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation Conservation Force Council to Advance Hunting and the Shooting Sports Dallas Safari Club Delta Waterfowl Ducks Unlimited Houston Safari Club Izaak Walton League of America Masters of Foxhounds Association Mule Deer Foundation National Bobwhite Conservation Initiative National Deer Association National Shooting Sports Foundation National Wild Turkey Federation National Wildlife Federation North American Falconers Association North American Grouse Partnership Orion: The Hunter’s Institute Pheasants Forever Pope & Young Club Quail Forever Ruffed Grouse Society Texas Wildlife Association The Conservation Fund Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership Wildlife Forever Wildlife Management Institute Wild Sheep Foundation
Nobody said you were the only fake game in town.......
Yeah, I remember that thread and the list of Sportsman's orgs that sent a letter to congress asking to approve her appointment:
American Woodcock Society Archery Trade Association Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies Bear Trust International Boone and Crockett Club Camp Fire Club of America Catch-A-Dream Foundation Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation Conservation Force Council to Advance Hunting and the Shooting Sports Dallas Safari Club Delta Waterfowl Ducks Unlimited Houston Safari Club Izaak Walton League of America Masters of Foxhounds Association Mule Deer Foundation National Bobwhite Conservation Initiative National Deer Association National Shooting Sports Foundation National Wild Turkey Federation National Wildlife Federation North American Falconers Association North American Grouse Partnership Orion: The Hunter’s Institute Pheasants Forever Pope & Young Club Quail Forever Ruffed Grouse Society Texas Wildlife Association The Conservation Fund Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership Wildlife Forever Wildlife Management Institute Wild Sheep Foundation
Nobody said you were the only fake game in town.......
“Manning also describes a grand vision for ecological restoration, currently set in motion, that would establish a prairie preserve larger than Yellowstone National Park, flush with wild bison, elk, bears, and wolves.”
“Manning also describes a grand vision for ecological restoration, currently set in motion, that would establish a prairie preserve larger than Yellowstone National Park, flush with wild bison, elk, bears, and wolves.”
It is a great vision...and AP is making it reality.
Some take action, some whine on 24...sent AP another check yesterday.
“Manning also describes a grand vision for ecological restoration, currently set in motion, that would establish a prairie preserve larger than Yellowstone National Park, flush with wild bison, elk, bears, and wolves.”
It is a great vision...and AP is making it reality.
Some take action, some whine on 24...sent AP another check yesterday.
Folks, this is very reminincent of the eco-freaks in Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six. For more relevant context, read Michael Crighton's State of Fear. If you don't want to read it, at least read his afterword. Very enlightening.
Essentially the hard core eco-freaks worship Mother Earth and her flora and fauna - man bad - too many man.
The hardcore eco-freaks very much want to reduce the world's population so that Mother Earth can heal herself and they can worship her and her flora and fauna, in a nirvana much like this freak's dream:
Seems relevant: Tracy Stone-Manning’s husband is a noted author, Richard Manning.
He wrote Rewilding the West: Restoration in a Prairie Landscape (2009)
“Manning also describes a grand vision for ecological restoration, currently set in motion, that would establish a prairie preserve larger than Yellowstone National Park, flush with wild bison, elk, bears, and wolves.”
“Manning also describes a grand vision for ecological restoration, currently set in motion, that would establish a prairie preserve larger than Yellowstone National Park, flush with wild bison, elk, bears, and wolves.”
It is a great vision...and AP is making it reality.
Some take action, some whine on 24...sent AP another check yesterday.
You're an ass IMO.
Let me find that hurt feelings report for you to fill out.
Anyone that cares about prairie ecosystems, public access, hunting, fishing, wildlife habitat should support AP.
Making the breaks a better place one ranch purchase at a time.
“Manning also describes a grand vision for ecological restoration, currently set in motion, that would establish a prairie preserve larger than Yellowstone National Park, flush with wild bison, elk, bears, and wolves.”
It is a great vision...and AP is making it reality.
Some take action, some whine on 24...sent AP another check yesterday.
You're an ass IMO.
Let me find that hurt feelings report for you to fill out.
Anyone that cares about prairie ecosystems, public access, hunting, fishing, wildlife habitat should support AP.
Making the breaks a better place one ranch purchase at a time.
Looking at the board and staff, I'll let you fall for that chit.
“Manning also describes a grand vision for ecological restoration, currently set in motion, that would establish a prairie preserve larger than Yellowstone National Park, flush with wild bison, elk, bears, and wolves.”
It is a great vision...and AP is making it reality.
Some take action, some whine on 24...sent AP another check yesterday.
Would have been better spent sending it to the Trump campaign.
“Manning also describes a grand vision for ecological restoration, currently set in motion, that would establish a prairie preserve larger than Yellowstone National Park, flush with wild bison, elk, bears, and wolves.”
It is a great vision...and AP is making it reality.
Some take action, some whine on 24...sent AP another check yesterday.
Would have been better spent sending it to the Trump campaign.
That would be counter to his ideals.
Plus the fàgs on cünttalk might reduce his hero status
“Manning also describes a grand vision for ecological restoration, currently set in motion, that would establish a prairie preserve larger than Yellowstone National Park, flush with wild bison, elk, bears, and wolves.”
It is a great vision...and AP is making it reality.
Some take action, some whine on 24...sent AP another check yesterday.
You're an ass IMO.
Let me find that hurt feelings report for you to fill out.
Anyone that cares about prairie ecosystems, public access, hunting, fishing, wildlife habitat should support AP.
Making the breaks a better place one ranch purchase at a time.
Looking at the board and staff, I'll let you fall for that chit.
I've gotten my money's worth, with room to spare. Their property is an awesome place to recreate.
“Manning also describes a grand vision for ecological restoration, currently set in motion, that would establish a prairie preserve larger than Yellowstone National Park, flush with wild bison, elk, bears, and wolves.”
It is a great vision...and AP is making it reality.
Some take action, some whine on 24...sent AP another check yesterday.
You're an ass IMO.
Let me find that hurt feelings report for you to fill out.
Anyone that cares about prairie ecosystems, public access, hunting, fishing, wildlife habitat should support AP.
Making the breaks a better place one ranch purchase at a time.
Looking at the board and staff, I'll let you fall for that chit.
I've gotten my money's worth, with room to spare. Their property is an awesome place to recreate.
Well. If you hang your hat on the recreation opportunity, some years on down the road you may just end up feeling a little betrayed. I hope you'll have enough integrity to see the error in you judgement, if only in hindsight.
It is a great vision...and AP is making it reality.
I dunno if it includes hunting in the long term, I don’t see any photos like yours on their web page.
AP: An organization, very well-funded by unknown out-of-state and foreign entities, employing a stereotypically Left-wing Progressive staff, systematically buying up private property, proposing to create large contiguous holdings larger than Yellowstone NP, over which the rest of us will have even less say than we do the management of state and federal holdings.
Said organization proposing to increase predator populations amid a state where ranching is a major livelihood as well as increasing buffalo populations which will require major long-term alterations of untold miles of existing fences.
Quote
Some take action, some whine on 24...sent AP another check yesterday.
Well, like I said, you yourself ain’t winning ‘em any friends, so thanks for that.
Do you have some sort of professional connect to BHA (??) or some such? Rather than making donations it could be about like moving money around.
Buzz is a watermelon. Green out the outside, pinko on the inside, with little black seeds of hatred scattered throughout.
Tracy was Earth First's spokescreature during EF's most-radical era, as in bombings, arsons, power line "ecotage" -- but, she never directly did anything. Her talent is message discipline. And her husband, Dick Manning? The guy was a reporter for the Missoulian, so biased against forestry that he got fired. That "rewildling" book is just a fancier, more-developed version of EF's goal of back to the Pleistocene. Same crazy stuff, just better literacy. After being scared by the idea of a felony rap, Tracy cleaned up her act, but her heart never ever changed. In a way, I admire her for what is an AMAZING job of self-control in public life. She has NEVER strayed significantly, kept disciplined, but at her core, she's a zealot with a mission.
The 25 million is chump change. But it's very important to understand endangered/threatened species politics and strategy. If the favored species is PRESENT, that's a whole different ball of wax than if not on the ground. Prime example is the Yellowstone wolves and the failed promise of pack numbers as a trigger for state management and delisting. The MOST IMPORTANT thing was to get the wolves into the system, no matter the lies needed to be told. Which were lies from day one. So the objective here is to get bison seeded ON THE GROUND and then the narrative shifts to the "surrounding ecosystem" where "there are no straight lines or fences in Nature." Capitalize Nature while you're at it, because Nature is your Mother.
How else to explain the friendly parkies winking and nodding at the Blackfeet herd just next door, actually in sight of Glacier National Park? If the buffs are right there, and trample the fence, oh, that's not so bad, is it? They're just filling their niche in the CrownofTheContinentEcosystemYellowstonetoYukon....
It is a great vision...and AP is making it reality.
I dunno if it includes hunting in the long term, I don’t see any photos like yours on their web page.
AP: An organization, very well-funded by unknown out-of-state and foreign entities, employing a stereotypically Left-wing Progressive staff, systematically buying up private property, proposing to create large contiguous holdings larger than Yellowstone NP, over which the rest of us will have even less say than we do the management of state and federal holdings.
Said organization proposing to increase predator populations amid a state where ranching is a major livelihood as well as increasing buffalo populations which will require major long-term alterations of untold miles of existing fences.
Quote
Some take action, some whine on 24...sent AP another check yesterday.
Well, like I said, you yourself ain’t winning ‘em any friends, so thanks for that.
Do you have some sort of professional connect to BHA (??) or some such? Rather than making donations it could be about like moving money around.
Of course they're going to continue to allow access and hunting. I've talked with several of their staff members and they absolutely are pro hunting. Fair to note AP also allows people to hunt their bison on a limited basis, pretty pro hunting for a group of Left-Wingers, wouldnt you agree?
IMO/E, having a largescale prairie ecosystem is a very good idea. We have large scale forest ecosystems intact, but not so with prairie habitats.
I can also tell you from first hand experience working with and around bison, the fencing requirements are not much different than those required for cattle. With an area the size AP is going to manage, the bison escaping will not be a problem. The Snowcrest, Redrock, and D are all much smaller and the bison escaping on those ranches is a non-issue.
As far as having control, well welcome to the world of private property rights. AP should have control of their private holdings, no different than any other private landowner. If you don't like that very American idea, then I suggest you have a couple/few options:
1. Ask the State of Montana to purchase those ranches when they come up for sale so that Montana Residents have a say. 2. Ask the Federal Government to purchase those ranches when they come up for sale so all US Citizens have a say. 3. Purchase them yourself and/or start a group of your liking to purchase them.
I'm more than happy with the goals of AP, how they go about acquiring the properties, the way they allow access, their land management practices, the way they allow hunting, the way they allow you to cross their property to formerly landlocked public lands. I also prefer bison on the landscape over cattle for a variety of very good reasons.
That's why I will continue to support AP financially. I like what they're doing, like their vision, and like their management practices.
It is a great vision...and AP is making it reality.
I dunno if it includes hunting in the long term, I don’t see any photos like yours on their web page.
AP: An organization, very well-funded by unknown out-of-state and foreign entities, employing a stereotypically Left-wing Progressive staff, systematically buying up private property, proposing to create large contiguous holdings larger than Yellowstone NP, over which the rest of us will have even less say than we do the management of state and federal holdings.
Said organization proposing to increase predator populations amid a state where ranching is a major livelihood as well as increasing buffalo populations which will require major long-term alterations of untold miles of existing fences.
Quote
Some take action, some whine on 24...sent AP another check yesterday.
Well, like I said, you yourself ain’t winning ‘em any friends, so thanks for that.
Do you have some sort of professional connect to BHA (??) or some such? Rather than making donations it could be about like moving money around.
Of course they're going to continue to allow access and hunting. I've talked with several of their staff members and they absolutely are pro hunting. Fair to note AP also allows people to hunt their bison on a limited basis, pretty pro hunting for a group of Left-Wingers, wouldnt you agree?
IMO/E, having a largescale prairie ecosystem is a very good idea. We have large scale forest ecosystems intact, but not so with prairie habitats.
I can also tell you from first hand experience working with and around bison, the fencing requirements are not much different than those required for cattle. With an area the size AP is going to manage, the bison escaping will not be a problem. The Snowcrest, Redrock, and D are all much smaller and the bison escaping on those ranches is a non-issue.
As far as having control, well welcome to the world of private property rights. AP should have control of their private holdings, no different than any other private landowner. If you don't like that very American idea, then I suggest you have a couple/few options:
1. Ask the State of Montana to purchase those ranches when they come up for sale so that Montana Residents have a say. 2. Ask the Federal Government to purchase those ranches when they come up for sale so all US Citizens have a say. 3. Purchase them yourself and/or start a group of your liking to purchase them.
I'm more than happy with the goals of AP, how they go about acquiring the properties, the way they allow access, their land management practices, the way they allow hunting, the way they allow you to cross their property to formerly landlocked public lands. I also prefer bison on the landscape over cattle for a variety of very good reasons.
That's why I will continue to support AP financially. I like what they're doing, like their vision, and like their management practices.
And his middle name is gullible!
Because Bill Gates, and Ted Turner, and all the rest of the owners of huge private holdings just open them up for every Tom, Dick, and Harry to tramp all over and kill "their privately fenced off game". Now maybe, if you can afford $5000/day trespass fees. And for huge trophy fees, they will hold your hand and have a biologist" point you to a critter you are allowed to shoot.
I also prefer bison on the landscape over cattle for a variety of very good reasons.
Interesting. Why?
Because he is an idiot who thinks a bison fills a different biological niche than a cow does. And mistakenly thinks bison are less biologically damaging than are cows.
Oh, if bison are so easy to contain, then why don't they keep 'em inside Yellowstone, instead of the critters wondering out where people shoot them?
It is a great vision...and AP is making it reality.
I dunno if it includes hunting in the long term, I don’t see any photos like yours on their web page.
AP: An organization, very well-funded by unknown out-of-state and foreign entities, employing a stereotypically Left-wing Progressive staff, systematically buying up private property, proposing to create large contiguous holdings larger than Yellowstone NP, over which the rest of us will have even less say than we do the management of state and federal holdings.
Said organization proposing to increase predator populations amid a state where ranching is a major livelihood as well as increasing buffalo populations which will require major long-term alterations of untold miles of existing fences.
Quote
Some take action, some whine on 24...sent AP another check yesterday.
Well, like I said, you yourself ain’t winning ‘em any friends, so thanks for that.
Do you have some sort of professional connect to BHA (??) or some such? Rather than making donations it could be about like moving money around.
Of course they're going to continue to allow access and hunting. I've talked with several of their staff members and they absolutely are pro hunting. Fair to note AP also allows people to hunt their bison on a limited basis, pretty pro hunting for a group of Left-Wingers, wouldnt you agree?
IMO/E, having a largescale prairie ecosystem is a very good idea. We have large scale forest ecosystems intact, but not so with prairie habitats.
I can also tell you from first hand experience working with and around bison, the fencing requirements are not much different than those required for cattle. With an area the size AP is going to manage, the bison escaping will not be a problem. The Snowcrest, Redrock, and D are all much smaller and the bison escaping on those ranches is a non-issue.
As far as having control, well welcome to the world of private property rights. AP should have control of their private holdings, no different than any other private landowner. If you don't like that very American idea, then I suggest you have a couple/few options:
1. Ask the State of Montana to purchase those ranches when they come up for sale so that Montana Residents have a say. 2. Ask the Federal Government to purchase those ranches when they come up for sale so all US Citizens have a say. 3. Purchase them yourself and/or start a group of your liking to purchase them.
I'm more than happy with the goals of AP, how they go about acquiring the properties, the way they allow access, their land management practices, the way they allow hunting, the way they allow you to cross their property to formerly landlocked public lands. I also prefer bison on the landscape over cattle for a variety of very good reasons.
That's why I will continue to support AP financially. I like what they're doing, like their vision, and like their management practices.
And his middle name is gullible!
Because Bill Gates, and Ted Turner, and all the rest of the owners of huge private holdings just open them up for every Tom, Dick, and Harry to tramp all over and kill "their privately fenced off game". Now maybe, if you can afford $5000/day trespass fees. And for huge trophy fees, they will hold your hand and have a biologist" point you to a critter you are allowed to shoot.
I guess, some folks call that hunting???????
First off, Turner does allow public hunting on the Ranches I worked on. Youth hunters from Sheridan, Alder, Dillon, etc. killed some very nice whitetail bucks on the Snowcrest when I worked there. The D allowed public cow hunters as well, think they choose not to now.
That said, precisely why I prefer that AP buy those ranches, because they do allow every Tom, Dick, and Harry to hunt their ranches. Folks like Turner, Kroenke, Nicolas, Gordy, etc. etc. they are much more selective over who they allow.
I already showed you pictures of elk and mule deer myself and family have killed on AP property, free of charge. Would you prefer these lands are purchased by Malone, Turner, Kroenke and other owners that allow no public access?
I also prefer bison on the landscape over cattle for a variety of very good reasons.
Interesting. Why?
Because he is an idiot who thinks a bison fills a different biological niche than a cow does. And mistakenly thinks bison are less biologically damaging than are cows.
Oh, if bison are so easy to contain, then why don't they keep 'em inside Yellowstone, instead of the critters wondering out where people shoot them?
Again, you're talking out of your ass...but nothing new there.
First off, bison are a better source of food than cattle, wayyyy lower fat, lower cholesterol, and also not pumped full of antibiotics, steroids, finished with corn in a feed lot, higher percentage yield of meat than cattle, etc. etc. etc. Tons of research out there to prove all that.
They also use the landscape much differently, move across and graze across the landscape differently, tend to be an upland grazer versus parking their ass in the nearest Riparian area. Do way less damage to stream banks and riparian habitats as well.
From a management standpoint, way easier to take care of than cattle. No reason to babysit them during calving season, they aren't nearly as susceptible to predation as cattle, no reason to chop out creeks in the winter for them to water, etc.
Very low maintenance animals, they take care of themselves. Ask anyone that's dealt with both...bison are not a PITA like cattle.
I also prefer bison on the landscape over cattle for a variety of very good reasons.
Interesting. Why?
Because he is an idiot who thinks a bison fills a different biological niche than a cow does. And mistakenly thinks bison are less biologically damaging than are cows.
Oh, if bison are so easy to contain, then why don't they keep 'em inside Yellowstone, instead of the critters wondering out where people shoot them?
Again, you're talking out of your ass...but nothing new there.
First off, bison are a better source of food than cattle, wayyyy lower fat, lower cholesterol, and also not pumped full of antibiotics, steroids, finished with corn in a feed lot, higher percentage yield of meat than cattle, etc. etc. etc. Tons of research out there to prove all that.
They also use the landscape much differently, move across and graze across the landscape differently, tend to be an upland grazer versus parking their ass in the nearest Riparian area. Do way less damage to stream banks and riparian habitats as well.
From a management standpoint, way easier to take care of than cattle. No reason to babysit them during calving season, they aren't nearly as susceptible to predation as cattle, no reason to chop out creeks in the winter for them to water, etc.
Very low maintenance animals, they take care of themselves. Ask anyone that's dealt with both...bison are not a PITA like cattle.
So, you think we canb feed the world on free range bison instead of commercial beef. I suppose we can, or at least the part of the world which can afford to purchase $30/lb burger. I suppose us regular folks can just eat processed worms, or that schitt meat they are culturing in the lab.
Well, by your definition, I am an expert. I have dealt with both. Cows are a hell of a lot easier to deal with. Never heard yet of a rancher afraid to walk out and irrigate a pasture full of cows. Never yet heard of one that felt it was safe to walk out through a herd of bison.
Really, how many grass fed longhorns have you raised, or eaten?
How many bison have you been in a corral with?
How much time have you spent on the range working on fences to keep cattle out of sensitive areas?
How much time have you spent in a saddle managing a herd of cows on the range?
How do you figure to keep bison out of riparian areas? Oh that's right. It will all be private ground. You won't have to keep the bison from tearing up the streambeds, or stop them from schitting in the creeks.
Every word you type on this thread magnifies the intensity of your idiocy. But yes, you have all the liberal talking points down pat. I bet you have even invested in the high rise towers they are going to house all the people in after they get us moved off of our country properties.
Let's talk efficiency first: !2 lb of feed to produce one pound of bison meat. vs 6 lb of feed to produce one pound of beef.
Age to butcher: of beef is 12 to 22 months. Of bison: The neighbor typically slaughters at 36 to 42 months. A two year old bison is a very small animal.
I also prefer bison on the landscape over cattle for a variety of very good reasons.
Interesting. Why?
Because he is an idiot who thinks a bison fills a different biological niche than a cow does. And mistakenly thinks bison are less biologically damaging than are cows.
Oh, if bison are so easy to contain, then why don't they keep 'em inside Yellowstone, instead of the critters wondering out where people shoot them?
Again, you're talking out of your ass...but nothing new there.
First off, bison are a better source of food than cattle, wayyyy lower fat, lower cholesterol, and also not pumped full of antibiotics, steroids, finished with corn in a feed lot, higher percentage yield of meat than cattle, etc. etc. etc. Tons of research out there to prove all that.
They also use the landscape much differently, move across and graze across the landscape differently, tend to be an upland grazer versus parking their ass in the nearest Riparian area. Do way less damage to stream banks and riparian habitats as well.
From a management standpoint, way easier to take care of than cattle. No reason to babysit them during calving season, they aren't nearly as susceptible to predation as cattle, no reason to chop out creeks in the winter for them to water, etc.
Very low maintenance animals, they take care of themselves. Ask anyone that's dealt with both...bison are not a PITA like cattle.
So, you think we canb feed the world on free range bison instead of commercial beef. I suppose we can, or at least the part of the world which can afford to purchase $30/lb burger. I suppose us regular folks can just eat processed worms, or that schitt meat they are culturing in the lab.
Well, by your definition, I am an expert. I have dealt with both. Cows are a hell of a lot easier to deal with. Never heard yet of a rancher afraid to walk out and irrigate a pasture full of cows. Never yet heard of one that felt it was safe to walk out through a herd of bison.
Really, how many grass fed longhorns have you raised, or eaten?
How many bison have you been in a corral with?
How much time have you spent on the range working on fences to keep cattle out of sensitive areas?
How much time have you spent in a saddle managing a herd of cows on the range?
How do you figure to keep bison out of riparian areas? Oh that's right. It will all be private ground. You won't have to keep the bison from tearing up the streambeds, or stop them from schitting in the creeks.
Every word you type on this thread magnifies the intensity of your idiocy. But yes, you have all the liberal talking points down pat. I bet you have even invested in the high rise towers they are going to house all the people in after they get us moved off of our country properties.
You very obviously have spent ZERO time around bison, and know ZERO about them. More than apparent if you're "keeping them from tearing up streambeds and [bleep] in the creeks".
Stick to pampering cattle, that sounds about like all you can muster.
"Us regular folk" around here eat elk, deer, moose, pronghorn, wild sheep, etc...you know, what hunters eat. I don't buy beef, but it must be somewhat embarrassing having to buy beef while calling yourself a hunter?
There is a market for bison and its expanding...I think that's great.
Since 97%+ of cattle are raised on private land, and as a private land advocate myself, raise what you want on your land. I prefer wild ungulates on MY PUBLIC land's though, but cattle grazing done right, is an appropriate multiple use of public land as well.
I think people should have choices in the food they choose to eat...I prefer moose, elk, and pronghorn. If others prefer bison over cattle, that's great.
You very obviously have spent ZERO time around bison, and know ZERO about them. More than apparent if you're "keeping them from tearing up streambeds and [bleep] in the creeks".
Stick to pampering cattle, that sounds about like all you can muster.
"Us regular folk" around here eat elk, deer, moose, pronghorn, wild sheep, etc...you know, what hunters eat. I don't buy beef, but it must be somewhat embarrassing having to buy beef while calling yourself a hunter?
There is a market for bison and its expanding...I think that's great.
Since 97%+ of cattle are raised on private land, and as a private land advocate myself, raise what you want on your land. I prefer wild ungulates on MY PUBLIC land's though, but cattle grazing done right, is an appropriate multiple use of public land as well.
I think people should have choices in the food they choose to eat...I prefer moose, elk, and pronghorn. If others prefer bison over cattle, that's great.
LOL, So you are making the claim that a bison does not stand in cool water under a brush canopy of a creek when summer temps hit 100 degree plus? Nor do they wander around in riparian areas to find water. And how do they maintain access to water during the frozen winter? Do you think they just quit using water? Or are they stomping up a creek trying to keep the ice broke?
Nor do they schitt the same cow pies a cow does when grazing young tender spring grass? And they are house trained, so they don't drop em in the creek?
Yeah sure! Maybe in your very vivid imagination.
And yes, tell us just exactly what you have invested per pound "as a regular folk" for that game meat you brag about. Include airfare, gas bills, packer fees, guide bills, out of state tags, hotel bills, and mileage.
Bison raised commercially are corralled and fed through the winter just like my cows are. Bison raised commercially are corralled and run through the squeeze chute for shots and vaccines just like my cows are. They are more expensive to raise and produce than are beef. The only reason they are commercially viable is because the meat sells for a higher price than does beef.
Yes, I have been a part of the proces of running them through the chute. And I have spent my time on horseback trying to get them contained where they belong. As I mentioned, the next door neighbor has a herd.
I went to school with him from elementary through High School and later spent every morning and afternoon riding to and from work with him as he was building that herd. I heard about every trial he faced, and got drafted to help with chores occasionally. We also worked with another guy who has a herd his Dad started almost sixty years ago.
In the case of the second herd, It was really fortunate that our employer had a generous attendance policy, as he frequently got calls from home that he had bison out in the neighbor's field or on the hiway. Then there was the day his wife called the p[ay phone in our break room. "Hey that old buffalo cow is trying to push the fence over again." "Well grab the 12 ga and pepper her ass. She will back off the fence"
10 minutes later, the pay phone rang again. "Uh, I peppered her ass, but she staggered around the pen for a few minutes and then fell over. I think she is dead" "Where did you get trhe shells from?" "The box in the window over the kitchen sink." "Well schitt, that was OO buck" "I will be there in 10 minutes to skin her out."
So anyway, we are still waiting for you to explain to us where you gained your on the ground experience with either beef, or bison. Did Ted Turner write a book?
Of course they're going to continue to allow access and hunting.
Who exactly is “they”? It ain’t their ‘I have a degree in journalism with a minor in environmental activism’ staff members. You have persistently refused to address the issue of where their funding comes from.
And “they” could stop any hunting or access at whim, like you’ve been saying; property rights of course.
Quote
IMO/E, having a largescale prairie ecosystem is a very good idea. We have large scale forest ecosystems intact, but not so with prairie habitats.
So why don’t they buy up properties and then just donate them to the State of Montana?
Quote
As far as having control, well welcome to the world of private property rights. AP should have control of their private holdings, no different than any other private landowner. If you don't like that very American idea,.
Aye, there’s the rub. They are VERY different from “any other private landowner”.
But again, you yourself refuse to address the issue of exactly who they are and where their funding comes from.
That one had me scratching my head too. The government subsidizes all kinds of stuff that we all take for granted. Like the home building industry and home buyers, as well as agriculture.
I have zero problem with either of those, and I get zero direct benefit from either. But the thing is, those subsidies are basically good for everyone, and good for the economy as a whole. Our agricultural production capacity is one of our strengths.
Raising buffalo on reservations isn't in the same realm.
Not in the same scale, but certainly in the same realm. Tell me how local businesses, economies, etc. are not going to benefit when tribes have bison herds. Tourism, hunting, sale of meat, etc. etc. from having bison.
Nice red herring buzz, but you proved my point. They are not in the same realm.
Home mortgage deductions and federal ag subsidies benefit all kinds of producers and consumers, all across the country, in every state, without regard to race, creed, or color.
This grant benefits a small amount of people, based on their race. Explain how that's fair. What about the Chinese farmers who want to raise Bok choy, or the white boys who want to raise bison?
LOL, So you are making the claim that a bison does not stand in cool water under a brush canopy of a creek when summer temps hit 100 degree plus? Nor do they wander around in riparian areas to find water. And how do they maintain access to water during the frozen winter? Do you think they just quit using water? Or are they stomping up a creek trying to keep the ice broke?
Nor do they schitt the same cow pies a cow does when grazing young tender spring grass? And they are house trained, so they don't drop em in the creek?
Yeah sure! Maybe in your very vivid imagination.
And yes, tell us just exactly what you have invested per pound "as a regular folk" for that game meat you brag about. Include airfare, gas bills, packer fees, guide bills, out of state tags, hotel bills, and mileage.
Good post. I think it is getting lost in this discussion that bison are cattle and graze and use the range just like cattle.
While bison and Texas Longhorn cattle produce beef it is not nearly as acceptable to the taste of most people. I don't think anyone would have a problem with ranchers raising well contained disease free bison but in practice they don't stay contained very well, on large ranches some of them become almost impossible to corral. Therefore the Bangs positive bison can't be culled and they carry diseases onto neighboring cattle operations where they mix with the cattle. When big recalcitrant bison get loose in places where they are dangerous to highway traffic and domestic cattle owners the only recourse is to shoot them.
If they can be kept in I don't see a problem. If they are running loose pillaging crops and wrecking cars I say treat them like we do wild hogs. Shoot on sight and site, take it home or let the scavengers have it.
funny how buzzy was paid by billionaires as a "wildlife specialist" to advise them to buy huge tracts of ranch land in Montana and then fence off wild elk and deer and antelope herds so that the general public couldn't access this public resource.
he's a lying grifter
Originally Posted by SamOlson
Originally Posted by BuzzH
You need to talk to more people, other than the next bar stool over.
You live in a fishbowl.
Yeah, the fishbowl known as northeast MT.
It would be hilarious for you to go into Malta or Glasgow and explain to the residents how you're going to save the country side.
Buzz, serious question - if Pres. Trump wins next year and delists wolves across America and mandates that national parks, ALL of them especially Yellowstone, open up to public hunting, would you support that??
Buzz, serious question - if Pres. Trump wins next year and delists wolves across America and mandates that national parks, ALL of them especially Yellowstone, open up to public hunting, would you support that??
Many of the influential BHA members help shut down the grizzly hunt in Montana and Wyoming and supported the introduction of wolves into the largest elk herd in Colorado
Of course they're going to continue to allow access and hunting.
Who exactly is “they”? It ain’t their ‘I have a degree in journalism with a minor in environmental activism’ staff members. You have persistently refused to address the issue of where their funding comes from.
And “they” could stop any hunting or access at whim, like you’ve been saying; property rights of course.
Quote
IMO/E, having a largescale prairie ecosystem is a very good idea. We have large scale forest ecosystems intact, but not so with prairie habitats.
So why don’t they buy up properties and then just donate them to the State of Montana?
Quote
As far as having control, well welcome to the world of private property rights. AP should have control of their private holdings, no different than any other private landowner. If you don't like that very American idea,.
Aye, there’s the rub. They are VERY different from “any other private landowner”.
But again, you yourself refuse to address the issue of exactly who they are and where their funding comes from.
"They" are AP and they are not going to shut down public access or hunting on AP property. They have continually expanded hunting and opened up hunting on properties formerly off limits to the public. I truly couldn't care less about where their funding comes from, some of it comes from me and my family. Lots of other MT hunters I know also contribute. I also don't care about their staff members, all I've talked to have lots of experience, lots of knowledge, and are very pro hunting.
Could they stop access at any time? They could, but nothing they have done thus far is giving me any indication they ever will. It beats having it locked up by people like Malone, Kroenke, Carlton's, Gordy, etc. etc. etc. that flat have never, and will never allow the public to access it.
There is NO way I would purchase and donate land to the State of Montana. The State is under a mandate to fund the state trust, not to do what's in the best interest of habitat, wildlife, public access. Their job it to raise revenue including selling off State lands. You need to realize, State land IS NOT public land. Montana has already sold off significant amounts of its lands they acquired at Statehood. AP has a different vision and different management plan where public hunting, public access, improving habitat, protecting migration corridors, etc. is THE TOP priority over raising revenue for the state trust. Nothing wrong with State lands being used in such a matter, but hunters, access, and wildlife are not the priority.
The one thing you're correct about is that they are very different from many private landowners. They aren't interested in developing their property, subdividing it, grazing it to dirt for profit, etc. etc.
That's their right to do with it as they see fit, and in this case its to prioritize habitat, wildlife, recreation (hunting, fishing, etc.), and public access. I share those same values and it makes nothing but complete sense as a public land hunter to support their efforts.
I can understand the confusion from a Texan who has to pay a private landowner to hunt...we don't have to do that here.
Buzz, serious question - if Pres. Trump wins next year and delists wolves across America and mandates that national parks, ALL of them especially Yellowstone, open up to public hunting, would you support that??
He had 4 years to open Yellowstone to hunting and delist wolves...what happened?
BTW, that's about the dumbest question I've ever heard.
That one had me scratching my head too. The government subsidizes all kinds of stuff that we all take for granted. Like the home building industry and home buyers, as well as agriculture.
I have zero problem with either of those, and I get zero direct benefit from either. But the thing is, those subsidies are basically good for everyone, and good for the economy as a whole. Our agricultural production capacity is one of our strengths.
Raising buffalo on reservations isn't in the same realm.
Not in the same scale, but certainly in the same realm. Tell me how local businesses, economies, etc. are not going to benefit when tribes have bison herds. Tourism, hunting, sale of meat, etc. etc. from having bison.
Nice red herring buzz, but you proved my point. They are not in the same realm.
Home mortgage deductions and federal ag subsidies benefit all kinds of producers and consumers, all across the country, in every state, without regard to race, creed, or color.
This grant benefits a small amount of people, based on their race. Explain how that's fair. What about the Chinese farmers who want to raise Bok choy, or the white boys who want to raise bison?
White boys that raise bison get theirs...study up.
Buzz, serious question - if Pres. Trump wins next year and delists wolves across America and mandates that national parks, ALL of them especially Yellowstone, open up to public hunting, would you support that??
He had 4 years to open Yellowstone to hunting and delist wolves...what happened?
BTW, that's about the dumbest question I've ever heard.
a big congrats to BHA getting gun ban legislation in Oregon, Washington and Michigan
Not one cent spent by BHA to stop the bear hunting ban in Washington state
how many millions has a BHA been paid by the anti gun lobby buzzy?
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by Birdwatcher
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Of course they're going to continue to allow access and hunting.
Who exactly is “they”? It ain’t their ‘I have a degree in journalism with a minor in environmental activism’ staff members. You have persistently refused to address the issue of where their funding comes from.
And “they” could stop any hunting or access at whim, like you’ve been saying; property rights of course.
Quote
IMO/E, having a largescale prairie ecosystem is a very good idea. We have large scale forest ecosystems intact, but not so with prairie habitats.
So why don’t they buy up properties and then just donate them to the State of Montana?
Quote
As far as having control, well welcome to the world of private property rights. AP should have control of their private holdings, no different than any other private landowner. If you don't like that very American idea,.
Aye, there’s the rub. They are VERY different from “any other private landowner”.
But again, you yourself refuse to address the issue of exactly who they are and where their funding comes from.
"They" are AP and they are not going to shut down public access or hunting on AP property. They have continually expanded hunting and opened up hunting on properties formerly off limits to the public. I truly couldn't care less about where their funding comes from, some of it comes from me and my family. Lots of other MT hunters I know also contribute. I also don't care about their staff members, all I've talked to have lots of experience, lots of knowledge, and are very pro hunting.
Could they stop access at any time? They could, but nothing they have done thus far is giving me any indication they ever will. It beats having it locked up by people like Malone, Kroenke, Carlton's, Gordy, etc. etc. etc. that flat have never, and will never allow the public to access it.
There is NO way I would purchase and donate land to the State of Montana. The State is under a mandate to fund the state trust, not to do what's in the best interest of habitat, wildlife, public access. Their job it to raise revenue including selling off State lands. You need to realize, State land IS NOT public land. Montana has already sold off significant amounts of its lands they acquired at Statehood. AP has a different vision and different management plan where public hunting, public access, improving habitat, protecting migration corridors, etc. is THE TOP priority over raising revenue for the state trust. Nothing wrong with State lands being used in such a matter, but hunters, access, and wildlife are not the priority.
The one thing you're correct about is that they are very different from many private landowners. They aren't interested in developing their property, subdividing it, grazing it to dirt for profit, etc. etc.
That's their right to do with it as they see fit, and in this case its to prioritize habitat, wildlife, recreation (hunting, fishing, etc.), and public access. I share those same values and it makes nothing but complete sense as a public land hunter to support their efforts.
I can understand the confusion from a Texan who has to pay a private landowner to hunt...we don't have to do that here.
So why don’t they buy up properties and then just donate them to the State of Montana?
Even by fire standards that's a dumb fugging question.
hey caldumb
Why doesn't BHA do anything for hunters? Thedy have plenty of money to support left wing anti American, anti hunting nut jobs
Most prominent is BHA executive director Land Tawney, who ran the liberal political action committee (PAC) calling itself the “Montana Hunters and Anglers Leadership Fund” (MHA). In 2012, this pop-up PAC spent $1.1 million against Republican U.S. Senate candidate Danny Rehberg, who was challenging Democratic U.S. Sen. Jon Tester. The liberal MHA also spent $500,000 in support of the libertarian candidate as a strategy of drawing votes away from the Republican. MHA received several hundred thousand dollars from the League of Conservation Voters, a liberal environmentalist group. Tawney is also a member of the Montana Sportsmen for Obama Committee
So why don’t they buy up properties and then just donate them to the State of Montana?
Even by fire standards that's a dumb fugging question.
hey caldumb
Why doesn't BHA do anything for hunters? Thedy have plenty of money to support left wing anti American, anti hunting nut jobs
Most prominent is BHA executive director Land Tawney, who ran the liberal political action committee (PAC) calling itself the “Montana Hunters and Anglers Leadership Fund” (MHA). In 2012, this pop-up PAC spent $1.1 million against Republican U.S. Senate candidate Danny Rehberg, who was challenging Democratic U.S. Sen. Jon Tester. The liberal MHA also spent $500,000 in support of the libertarian candidate as a strategy of drawing votes away from the Republican. MHA received several hundred thousand dollars from the League of Conservation Voters, a liberal environmentalist group. Tawney is also a member of the Montana Sportsmen for Obama Committee
Who is "Danny Rehberg" Nobody named Danny ran against Jon Tester.
Most prominent is BHA executive director Land Tawney, who ran the liberal political action committee (PAC) calling itself the “Montana Hunters and Anglers Leadership Fund” (MHA). In 2012, this pop-up PAC spent $1.1 million against Republican U.S. Senate candidate Danny Rehberg, who was challenging Democratic U.S. Sen. Jon Tester. The liberal MHA also spent $500,000 in support of the libertarian candidate as a strategy of drawing votes away from the Republican. MHA received several hundred thousand dollars from the League of Conservation Voters, a liberal environmentalist group. Tawney is also a member of the Montana Sportsmen for Obama Committee
How much did BHA executives make for lobbying for gun bans last year Buzzy?
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by ribka
Originally Posted by losttrail60
Originally Posted by Birdwatcher
So why don’t they buy up properties and then just donate them to the State of Montana?
Even by fire standards that's a dumb fugging question.
hey caldumb
Why doesn't BHA do anything for hunters? Thedy have plenty of money to support left wing anti American, anti hunting nut jobs
Most prominent is BHA executive director Land Tawney, who ran the liberal political action committee (PAC) calling itself the “Montana Hunters and Anglers Leadership Fund” (MHA). In 2012, this pop-up PAC spent $1.1 million against Republican U.S. Senate candidate Danny Rehberg, who was challenging Democratic U.S. Sen. Jon Tester. The liberal MHA also spent $500,000 in support of the libertarian candidate as a strategy of drawing votes away from the Republican. MHA received several hundred thousand dollars from the League of Conservation Voters, a liberal environmentalist group. Tawney is also a member of the Montana Sportsmen for Obama Committee
Who is "Danny Rehberg" Nobody named Danny ran against Jon Tester.
"They" are AP and they are not going to shut down public access or hunting on AP property".
And you know this how? You are pretty good at predicting the future now....
Judging by the kind of people on staff and the board, I wouldn't have the same level of confidence in that that you do.
Call and talk to them, you know, get the information first hand.
That's what I did.
I can tell you until AP bought Blue Ridge from Carlton's there was no public access or hunting allowed on it. Further, you couldn't access the East Side of Armstrong Coulee, Swede, and Blue Ridge without a boat either. AP created a parking spot and an access through there, that the public doesn't need to even ask permission to cross their property to reach all of it.
If you have an elk or bighorn tag in there, that's a very big deal.
But, again, you don't know that sitting behind a computer in IL...
How much did BHA executives make for lobbying for gun bans last year Buzzy?
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by Westman
"They" are AP and they are not going to shut down public access or hunting on AP property".
And you know this how? You are pretty good at predicting the future now....
Judging by the kind of people on staff and the board, I wouldn't have the same level of confidence in that that you do.
Call and talk to them, you know, get the information first hand.
That's what I did.
I can tell you until AP bought Blue Ridge from Carlton's there was no public access or hunting allowed on it. Further, you couldn't access the East Side of Armstrong Coulee, Swede, and Blue Ridge without a boat either. AP created a parking spot and an access through there, that the public doesn't need to even ask permission to cross their property to reach all of it.
If you have an elk or bighorn tag in there, that's a very big deal.
But, again, you don't know that sitting behind a computer in IL...
How much did BHA executives make for lobbying for gun bans last year Buzzy?
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by Westman
"They" are AP and they are not going to shut down public access or hunting on AP property".
And you know this how? You are pretty good at predicting the future now....
Judging by the kind of people on staff and the board, I wouldn't have the same level of confidence in that that you do.
Call and talk to them, you know, get the information first hand.
That's what I did.
I can tell you until AP bought Blue Ridge from Carlton's there was no public access or hunting allowed on it. Further, you couldn't access the East Side of Armstrong Coulee, Swede, and Blue Ridge without a boat either. AP created a parking spot and an access through there, that the public doesn't need to even ask permission to cross their property to reach all of it.
If you have an elk or bighorn tag in there, that's a very big deal.
But, again, you don't know that sitting behind a computer in IL...
Call and talk to them, you know, get the information first hand.
That's what I did.
I can tell you until AP bought Blue Ridge from Carlton's there was no public access or hunting allowed on it. Further, you couldn't access the East Side of Armstrong Coulee, Swede, and Blue Ridge without a boat either. AP created a parking spot and an access through there, that the public doesn't need to even ask permission to cross their property to reach all of it.
If you have an elk or bighorn tag in there, that's a very big deal.
But, again, you don't know that sitting behind a computer in IL...
buzzy how much money did BHA donate to go to court to fight the bear hunting ban in Washington state?
The cat hunting ban in California and the trapping ban in NM?
BHA is no friend to sportsmen
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by ribka
How much did BHA executives make for lobbying for gun bans last year Buzzy?
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by Westman
"They" are AP and they are not going to shut down public access or hunting on AP property".
And you know this how? You are pretty good at predicting the future now....
Judging by the kind of people on staff and the board, I wouldn't have the same level of confidence in that that you do.
Call and talk to them, you know, get the information first hand.
That's what I did.
I can tell you until AP bought Blue Ridge from Carlton's there was no public access or hunting allowed on it. Further, you couldn't access the East Side of Armstrong Coulee, Swede, and Blue Ridge without a boat either. AP created a parking spot and an access through there, that the public doesn't need to even ask permission to cross their property to reach all of it.
If you have an elk or bighorn tag in there, that's a very big deal.
But, again, you don't know that sitting behind a computer in IL...
Call and talk to them, you know, get the information first hand.
That's what I did.
I can tell you until AP bought Blue Ridge from Carlton's there was no public access or hunting allowed on it. Further, you couldn't access the East Side of Armstrong Coulee, Swede, and Blue Ridge without a boat either. AP created a parking spot and an access through there, that the public doesn't need to even ask permission to cross their property to reach all of it.
If you have an elk or bighorn tag in there, that's a very big deal.
But, again, you don't know that sitting behind a computer in IL...
buzzy how much money did BHA donate to go to court to fight the bear hunting ban in Washington state?
The cat hunting ban in California and the trapping ban in NM?
BHA is no friend to sportsmen
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by ribka
How much did BHA executives make for lobbying for gun bans last year Buzzy?
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by Westman
"They" are AP and they are not going to shut down public access or hunting on AP property".
And you know this how? You are pretty good at predicting the future now....
Judging by the kind of people on staff and the board, I wouldn't have the same level of confidence in that that you do.
Call and talk to them, you know, get the information first hand.
That's what I did.
I can tell you until AP bought Blue Ridge from Carlton's there was no public access or hunting allowed on it. Further, you couldn't access the East Side of Armstrong Coulee, Swede, and Blue Ridge without a boat either. AP created a parking spot and an access through there, that the public doesn't need to even ask permission to cross their property to reach all of it.
If you have an elk or bighorn tag in there, that's a very big deal.
But, again, you don't know that sitting behind a computer in IL...
Call and talk to them, you know, get the information first hand.
That's what I did.
I can tell you until AP bought Blue Ridge from Carlton's there was no public access or hunting allowed on it. Further, you couldn't access the East Side of Armstrong Coulee, Swede, and Blue Ridge without a boat either. AP created a parking spot and an access through there, that the public doesn't need to even ask permission to cross their property to reach all of it.
If you have an elk or bighorn tag in there, that's a very big deal.
But, again, you don't know that sitting behind a computer in IL...
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
So how much money has BHA donated to fight the bear hunting ban in Washington state and the lion hunting ban in California?
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by ribka
buzzy how much money did BHA donate to go to court to fight the bear hunting ban in Washington state?
The cat hunting ban in California and the trapping ban in NM?
BHA is no friend to sportsmen
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by ribka
How much did BHA executives make for lobbying for gun bans last year Buzzy?
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by Westman
"They" are AP and they are not going to shut down public access or hunting on AP property".
And you know this how? You are pretty good at predicting the future now....
Judging by the kind of people on staff and the board, I wouldn't have the same level of confidence in that that you do.
Call and talk to them, you know, get the information first hand.
That's what I did.
I can tell you until AP bought Blue Ridge from Carlton's there was no public access or hunting allowed on it. Further, you couldn't access the East Side of Armstrong Coulee, Swede, and Blue Ridge without a boat either. AP created a parking spot and an access through there, that the public doesn't need to even ask permission to cross their property to reach all of it.
If you have an elk or bighorn tag in there, that's a very big deal.
But, again, you don't know that sitting behind a computer in IL...
Call and talk to them, you know, get the information first hand.
That's what I did.
I can tell you until AP bought Blue Ridge from Carlton's there was no public access or hunting allowed on it. Further, you couldn't access the East Side of Armstrong Coulee, Swede, and Blue Ridge without a boat either. AP created a parking spot and an access through there, that the public doesn't need to even ask permission to cross their property to reach all of it.
If you have an elk or bighorn tag in there, that's a very big deal.
But, again, you don't know that sitting behind a computer in IL...
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
buzzy can you show me the link to the cost cases filed by BHA to fight banned hunting seasons? lol
what a joke
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by ribka
Originally Posted by losttrail60
Originally Posted by Birdwatcher
So why don’t they buy up properties and then just donate them to the State of Montana?
Even by fire standards that's a dumb fugging question.
hey caldumb
Why doesn't BHA do anything for hunters? Thedy have plenty of money to support left wing anti American, anti hunting nut jobs
Most prominent is BHA executive director Land Tawney, who ran the liberal political action committee (PAC) calling itself the “Montana Hunters and Anglers Leadership Fund” (MHA). In 2012, this pop-up PAC spent $1.1 million against Republican U.S. Senate candidate Danny Rehberg, who was challenging Democratic U.S. Sen. Jon Tester. The liberal MHA also spent $500,000 in support of the libertarian candidate as a strategy of drawing votes away from the Republican. MHA received several hundred thousand dollars from the League of Conservation Voters, a liberal environmentalist group. Tawney is also a member of the Montana Sportsmen for Obama Committee
Who is "Danny Rehberg" Nobody named Danny ran against Jon Tester.
So how much money has BHA donated to fight the bear hunting ban in Washington state and the lion hunting ban in California?
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by ribka
buzzy how much money did BHA donate to go to court to fight the bear hunting ban in Washington state?
The cat hunting ban in California and the trapping ban in NM?
BHA is no friend to sportsmen
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by ribka
How much did BHA executives make for lobbying for gun bans last year Buzzy?
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by Westman
"They" are AP and they are not going to shut down public access or hunting on AP property".
And you know this how? You are pretty good at predicting the future now....
Judging by the kind of people on staff and the board, I wouldn't have the same level of confidence in that that you do.
Call and talk to them, you know, get the information first hand.
That's what I did.
I can tell you until AP bought Blue Ridge from Carlton's there was no public access or hunting allowed on it. Further, you couldn't access the East Side of Armstrong Coulee, Swede, and Blue Ridge without a boat either. AP created a parking spot and an access through there, that the public doesn't need to even ask permission to cross their property to reach all of it.
If you have an elk or bighorn tag in there, that's a very big deal.
But, again, you don't know that sitting behind a computer in IL...
Call and talk to them, you know, get the information first hand.
That's what I did.
I can tell you until AP bought Blue Ridge from Carlton's there was no public access or hunting allowed on it. Further, you couldn't access the East Side of Armstrong Coulee, Swede, and Blue Ridge without a boat either. AP created a parking spot and an access through there, that the public doesn't need to even ask permission to cross their property to reach all of it.
If you have an elk or bighorn tag in there, that's a very big deal.
But, again, you don't know that sitting behind a computer in IL...
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
How much did BHA executives make for lobbying for gun bans last year Buzzy?
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by ribka
So how much money has BHA donated to fight the bear hunting ban in Washington state and the lion hunting ban in California?
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by ribka
buzzy how much money did BHA donate to go to court to fight the bear hunting ban in Washington state?
The cat hunting ban in California and the trapping ban in NM?
BHA is no friend to sportsmen
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by ribka
How much did BHA executives make for lobbying for gun bans last year Buzzy?
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by Westman
"They" are AP and they are not going to shut down public access or hunting on AP property".
And you know this how? You are pretty good at predicting the future now....
Judging by the kind of people on staff and the board, I wouldn't have the same level of confidence in that that you do.
Call and talk to them, you know, get the information first hand.
That's what I did.
I can tell you until AP bought Blue Ridge from Carlton's there was no public access or hunting allowed on it. Further, you couldn't access the East Side of Armstrong Coulee, Swede, and Blue Ridge without a boat either. AP created a parking spot and an access through there, that the public doesn't need to even ask permission to cross their property to reach all of it.
If you have an elk or bighorn tag in there, that's a very big deal.
But, again, you don't know that sitting behind a computer in IL...
Call and talk to them, you know, get the information first hand.
That's what I did.
I can tell you until AP bought Blue Ridge from Carlton's there was no public access or hunting allowed on it. Further, you couldn't access the East Side of Armstrong Coulee, Swede, and Blue Ridge without a boat either. AP created a parking spot and an access through there, that the public doesn't need to even ask permission to cross their property to reach all of it.
If you have an elk or bighorn tag in there, that's a very big deal.
But, again, you don't know that sitting behind a computer in IL...
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
our public lands are racist according to that dumb kahunt tawny . b buzzy is BHA going to have drag queen strip shows for children next?
A MESSAGE FROM OUR PRESIDENT
Posted by Land Tawney | June 03, 2020 Yesterday Backcountry Hunters & Anglers posted a black screen on our Instagram page to listen and in recognition of the pain, uncertainty and outrage felt in communities across North America and the world. We did so to confirm profound changes are necessary. Racism is real and pervasive.
We don’t have all the answers; in fact I don’t know if we have any of the answers but we have a base to build on. The mission of BHA is centered on the notion that no matter the color of your skin, political affiliation, religion, financial standing, gender or sexual identity, we are all entitled to equal access of our public lands and waters. These places provide solitude, adventure and solace for anyone who seeks them. The truth is, not all of us are able to find refuge in our wild places. From our local parks and open spaces to the vast wilderness lands of the West, we need to do more to break down barriers that prevent others from finding meaningful connection in the outdoors.
I’m thankful for the work that BHA has done to be inclusive and open, but I understand that we can do more. I’m proud that our organization adopted a strategic plan in January that recognizes our need to grow, learn and work harder toward equality on public lands and beyond. As part of that strategic plan we are committed to substantive conversations and investments in evolving as an organization. For example, we have dedicated funding to undergo justice, equity, diversity and inclusion training with a long-term implementation plan that includes all facets of BHA from our North American Board of Directors, to our chapter leaders and staff on the front edges of our work.
We will listen. We will learn. We will seek guidance and partnerships, especially from minority communities that we stand beside but need to work with in more meaningful ways. It’s critical to our mission, to the future of our society, and to the public lands and public waters that have the power to unite us.
We ask you to stand with us as we undertake this important work and face the challenges to come. Onward and upward,
Land Tawney Backcountry Hunters & Anglers President and CEO
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
We don’t have all the answers; in fact I don’t know if we have any of the answers but we have a base to build on. The mission of BHA is centered on the notion that no matter the color of your skin, political affiliation, religion, financial standing, gender or sexual identity, we are all entitled to equal access of our public lands and waters.
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.[/quote]
Actually as I recall it the Fish and Game Commissiion instuted the ban on lion hunting for 20 years so that they could study the lion population in the state. I don't remember Regan having anything to do with it. At that time they had a $50 bounty on lion's in California. When the ban was about to be lifted the Hollywood elite and SPCA got wind of it and got all up in arms and got a ballot measure to ban the hunting of lions passed(prop 117). I think I remember Dorris Day being behind it. Years later after lions killed and ate a few joggers we tried to pass prop 197 which would have allowed lion hunting to occur again but it failed to pass. So now we have lions everwhere including the SF Bay area Baylands. This state hired professional wildlife biologist but did not follow their advice.
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
Ole Buzzy would support his own neutering if there was 5 bucks in it for him........LMAO!
Here's buzzy defending an ecoterrorist to run our public lands. She spiked trees with earth first.
Many loggers working an honest job trying to feed their families were injured by spiked trees, Shows what an unprincipled POS buzzy is. Anyway he can make a buck or grift.
Zero morals
BuzzH WKR JoinedMay 27, 2017 LocationWyoming Jun 18, 2021 Add bookmark #5 ntrlbrnhunter said: Backcountry Hunters and Anglers publicly supporting an environmental nut job to run the Bureau of Land Management!!!???
Insane….
View attachment 300000 View attachment 300001
missoulian.com Biden nominee Tracy Stone-Manning blasted by GOP for link to 1989 logging sabotage Tracy Stone-Manning is facing GOP pressure to withdraw her BLM nomination from President Joe Biden over her ties to environmental activists convicted of spiking trees to sabotage a national forest missoulian.com missoulian.com
www.backcountryhunters.org BHA Responds to Nomination of Stone-Manning as BLM Director Backcountry Hunters & Anglers is the voice for our wild public lands, waters and wildlife. www.backcountryhunters.org www.backcountryhunters.org Click to expand... Can you share any information on Stone-Manning's conviction of being an eco-terrorist?
I'd be really interested in that article, court documents, etc.
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
Actually as I recall it the Fish and Game Commissiion instuted the ban on lion hunting for 20 years so that they could study the lion population in the state. I don't remember Regan having anything to do with it. At that time they had a $50 bounty on lion's in California. When the ban was about to be lifted the Hollywood elite and SPCA got wind of it and got all up in arms and got a ballot measure to ban the hunting of lions passed(prop 117). I think I remember Dorris Day being behind it. Years later after lions killed and ate a few joggers we tried to pass prop 197 which would have allowed lion hunting to occur again but it failed to pass. So now we have lions everwhere including the SF Bay area Baylands. This state hired professional wildlife biologist but did not follow their advice.[/quote]
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
Actually as I recall it the Fish and Game Commissiion instuted the ban on lion hunting for 20 years so that they could study the lion population in the state. I don't remember Regan having anything to do with it. At that time they had a $50 bounty on lion's in California. When the ban was about to be lifted the Hollywood elite and SPCA got wind of it and got all up in arms and got a ballot measure to ban the hunting of lions passed(prop 117). I think I remember Dorris Day being behind it. Years later after lions killed and ate a few joggers we tried to pass prop 197 which would have allowed lion hunting to occur again but it failed to pass. So now we have lions everwhere including the SF Bay area Baylands. This state hired professional wildlife biologist but did not follow their advice.[/quote]
In 1971, Gov. Ronald Reagan signed the four-year hunting moratorium. The state began tagging and tracking mountain lions. The predators could be killed for attacking humans or livestock with a permit good for just 10 days, and only within 10 miles of where the attack happened.
It took effect at the end of the lion season in 1972...and was signed by the Gipper.
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
Actually as I recall it the Fish and Game Commissiion instuted the ban on lion hunting for 20 years so that they could study the lion population in the state. I don't remember Regan having anything to do with it. At that time they had a $50 bounty on lion's in California. When the ban was about to be lifted the Hollywood elite and SPCA got wind of it and got all up in arms and got a ballot measure to ban the hunting of lions passed(prop 117). I think I remember Dorris Day being behind it. Years later after lions killed and ate a few joggers we tried to pass prop 197 which would have allowed lion hunting to occur again but it failed to pass. So now we have lions everwhere including the SF Bay area Baylands. This state hired professional wildlife biologist but did not follow their advice.
[/quote]
Wrong...facts trump a fading memory.
In 1971, Gov. Ronald Reagan signed the four-year hunting moratorium. The state began tagging and tracking mountain lions. The predators could be killed for attacking humans or livestock with a permit good for just 10 days, and only within 10 miles of where the attack happened.
BUZZY HOW MUCH MONEY IS BHA OR ITS EXECUTIVES RECEIVING FROM THE GUN BAN LOBBIES?
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by mjs3240
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
Actually as I recall it the Fish and Game Commissiion instuted the ban on lion hunting for 20 years so that they could study the lion population in the state. I don't remember Regan having anything to do with it. At that time they had a $50 bounty on lion's in California. When the ban was about to be lifted the Hollywood elite and SPCA got wind of it and got all up in arms and got a ballot measure to ban the hunting of lions passed(prop 117). I think I remember Dorris Day being behind it. Years later after lions killed and ate a few joggers we tried to pass prop 197 which would have allowed lion hunting to occur again but it failed to pass. So now we have lions everwhere including the SF Bay area Baylands. This state hired professional wildlife biologist but did not follow their advice.
In 1971, Gov. Ronald Reagan signed the four-year hunting moratorium. The state began tagging and tracking mountain lions. The predators could be killed for attacking humans or livestock with a permit good for just 10 days, and only within 10 miles of where the attack happened.
It took effect at the end of the lion season in 1972...and was signed by the Gipper.[/quote]
BUZZ SHOW ME THE LAWSUIT FILED BY BHA TO REINSTATE LION HUNTING. LOL
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by ribka
Buzzy caught lying again and no one is surprised
Originally Posted by mjs3240
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
Actually as I recall it the Fish and Game Commissiion instuted the ban on lion hunting for 20 years so that they could study the lion population in the state. I don't remember Regan having anything to do with it. At that time they had a $50 bounty on lion's in California. When the ban was about to be lifted the Hollywood elite and SPCA got wind of it and got all up in arms and got a ballot measure to ban the hunting of lions passed(prop 117). I think I remember Dorris Day being behind it. Years later after lions killed and ate a few joggers we tried to pass prop 197 which would have allowed lion hunting to occur again but it failed to pass. So now we have lions everwhere including the SF Bay area Baylands. This state hired professional wildlife biologist but did not follow their advice.
Wrong...facts trump a fading memory.
In 1971, Gov. Ronald Reagan signed the four-year hunting moratorium. The state began tagging and tracking mountain lions. The predators could be killed for attacking humans or livestock with a permit good for just 10 days, and only within 10 miles of where the attack happened.[/quote]
The Gipper...in action, the power of the veto, and he gaffed hunters:
In 1971, the state legislature passed new legislation, signed by then governor, Ronald Reagan, which placed a moratorium on the sport hunting of mountain lions. The lion hunting moratorium, which started on March 1, 1972, was maintained until 1986 at which time the regulated hunting of mountain lions was once again authorized. Despite this authorization, political pressure from individual citizens and conservation organizations such as the Mountain Lion Foundation (MLF) kept lions from being hunted for sport in California over the next four years.
I truly couldn't care less about where their funding comes from, some of it comes from me and my family. Lots of other MT hunters I know also contribute.
The issue in question isn’t if you care where the majority of the money comes from, you have been avoiding the question.
Where does the majority of their funding come from?
Quote
I also don't care about their staff members, all I've talked to have lots of experience, lots of knowledge, and are very pro hunting.
Strangely not reflected on their website and apparent target audience. You’re saying they walk like ducks and quack like ducks but they’re not.
Quote
There is NO way I would purchase and donate land to the State of Montana. The State is under a mandate to fund the state trust, not to do what's in the best interest of habitat, wildlife, public access. Their job it to raise revenue including selling off State lands. You need to realize, State land IS NOT public land. Montana has already sold off significant amounts of its lands they acquired since statehood.
Seven State Forests in Montana and they’re not public lands? Montana got statehood in 1889, how much have they sold in the 21st Century?
In Montana State-owned Trust Land supports public education, is all State-owned land Trust Land?
According to their website they’re all about biodiversity etc etc etc.
Quote
The one thing you're correct about is that they are very different from many private landowners. They aren't interested in developing their property, subdividing it, grazing it to dirt for profit, etc. etc.
How can you guess what they are interested in if you don’t know who’s paying?
Quote
I can understand the confusion from a Texan who has to pay a private landowner to hunt...we don't have to do that here.
you'll just get more lies and nonsense and he'll refuse to answer those great logical questions
Ask Buzzy why when he worked for Ted Turner helped fence in elk, deer and antelope herds on his ranch so they couldn't migrate out onto public lands. Ted turner then sold hunts for boat loads of money. on his ranch. Like Texas high fenced hunting and Montanans were disgusted at this. . I imagine a lot of that money ended up in Buzzy's pockets.
Originally Posted by Birdwatcher
Originally Posted by BuzzH
I truly couldn't care less about where their funding comes from, some of it comes from me and my family. Lots of other MT hunters I know also contribute.
The issue in question isn’t if you care where the majority of the money comes from, you have been avoiding the question.
Where does the majority of their funding come from?
Quote
I also don't care about their staff members, all I've talked to have lots of experience, lots of knowledge, and are very pro hunting.
Strangely not reflected on their website and apparent target audience. You’re saying they walk like ducks and quack like ducks but they’re not.
Quote
There is NO way I would purchase and donate land to the State of Montana. The State is under a mandate to fund the state trust, not to do what's in the best interest of habitat, wildlife, public access. Their job it to raise revenue including selling off State lands. You need to realize, State land IS NOT public land. Montana has already sold off significant amounts of its lands they acquired since statehood.
Seven State Forests in Montana and they’re not public lands? Montana got statehood in 1889, how much have they sold in the 21st Century?
In Montana State-owned Trust Land supports public education, is all State-owned land Trust Land?
According to their website they’re all about biodiversity etc etc etc.
Quote
The one thing you're correct about is that they are very different from many private landowners. They aren't interested in developing their property, subdividing it, grazing it to dirt for profit, etc. etc.
How can you guess what they are interested in if you don’t know who’s paying?
Quote
I can understand the confusion from a Texan who has to pay a private landowner to hunt...we don't have to do that here.
buzzy why did ted turner fence off his ranch when you worked for him and not allow elk deer and antelope to migrate then he sold hunts on his high fenced ranch
I truly couldn't care less about where their funding comes from, some of it comes from me and my family. Lots of other MT hunters I know also contribute.
The issue in question isn’t if you care where the majority of the money comes from, you have been avoiding the question.
Where does the majority of their funding come from?
Quote
I also don't care about their staff members, all I've talked to have lots of experience, lots of knowledge, and are very pro hunting.
Strangely not reflected on their website and apparent target audience. You’re saying they walk like ducks and quack like ducks but they’re not.
Quote
There is NO way I would purchase and donate land to the State of Montana. The State is under a mandate to fund the state trust, not to do what's in the best interest of habitat, wildlife, public access. Their job it to raise revenue including selling off State lands. You need to realize, State land IS NOT public land. Montana has already sold off significant amounts of its lands they acquired since statehood.
Seven State Forests in Montana and they’re not public lands? Montana got statehood in 1889, how much have they sold in the 21st Century?
In Montana State-owned Trust Land supports public education, is all State-owned land Trust Land?
According to their website they’re all about biodiversity etc etc etc.
Quote
The one thing you're correct about is that they are very different from many private landowners. They aren't interested in developing their property, subdividing it, grazing it to dirt for profit, etc. etc.
How can you guess what they are interested in if you don’t know who’s paying?
Quote
I can understand the confusion from a Texan who has to pay a private landowner to hunt...we don't have to do that here.
Dude, it ain’t like this is Rocket Science.
Real obvious you have little experience and no ability to research. There is no reason for AP to donate their lands to the Feds or State, already gave you the reasons why. The reason you don't understand much about the State Trust lands is the fact you're a Texan.
It wasn't that long ago, I know because I advocated for it, that Montana Hunters didn't even have the ability or right to hunt State owned lands in Montana. Unlike you, I'm not forced to guess on how that battle happened, I was involved, donated money to that as well. There's many more reasons why it makes, absolutely no sense to donate land to the State of the Montana. Again, its not public, and the State Land Board will tell you that...in every State.
Montana has sold 700,000 acres since Statehood.
The History of your own State is a classic case of why State's are not to be trusted with State Lands...literally gave it away.
Texas relinquished 67 million acres in the Compromise of 1850 in exchange for a cash payment that wiped out the debt. Future land sales were earmarked to fund Texas education. But sales proved to be disappointing. Over the remainder of the 19th century, about 86 million acres—more than half the present area of Texas—were simply given away, rather than sold, to encourage settlement and development in remote areas.
You're right, its not rocket science, AP is much more trustworthy than the whims of corrupt state politics and politicians...no doubt.
Exactly why AP is high on my list of annual donations every year, also why they're able to acquire lands.
buzzy why did ted turner fence off his ranch when you worked for him and not allow elk deer and antelope to migrate then he sold hunts on his high fenced ranch
buzzy why did ted turner fence off his ranch when you worked for him and not allow elk deer and antelope to migrate then he sold hunts on his high fenced ranch
according to his close friend Busse "the NRA is dangerous terrorist organization"
no wonder no one trusts the BHA and its spokesmen buzzy who come on here to spread disinformation
Why did Ronald Reagan pass the Mulford Act?
Why did Reagan write an op-ed in support of the Brady Bill?
buzzy how many millions do BHA executives receive from powerful gun ban lobbies every year?
Why did Ronald Reagan pass the Mulford Act?
Why did Reagan write an op-ed in support of the Brady Bill?
Why did Reagan say this?
"I do not believe in taking away the right of the citizen for sporting, for hunting and so forth, or for home defense," he said. "But I do believe that an AK-47, a machine gun, is not a sporting weapon or needed for defense of a home."
Reagan erred in his use of terminology: The type of weapon used by Patrick Purdy, and referenced by Reagan in his comment, was actually a semi-automatic version of the AK-47, not a "machine gun." In 1994 Reagan was a co-signatory (along with former presidents Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter) to a letter urging the U.S. House of Representatives to support a ban on the domestic manufacture of "assault weapons" such as semi-automatic AK-47s:
I plowed through much of this, painful though it was. Fairly typical pissing match with the majority on both sides afraid of answering questions.
I do have a few things to mention. I perused BHAs Facebook page and asked a few questions. It doesn't appear to be a very interactive page. Anywhere in their feed where I saw they mentioned working with a politician, that politician was a Democrat.
I had no idea who American Prairie was. I looked them up. What percentage of this BOD is Democrat? https://americanprairie.org/leadership/#national-board-of-directors I hate to judge based on looks, but there's a heavy team D influence in that group. ANYONE who trusts Democrats with their hunting and gun rights is a fool of the highest order.
Buzzy is the NRA and its members" a dangerous terrorist organization" like your friend and BHA president said?
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by ribka
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by ribka
according to his close friend Busse "the NRA is dangerous terrorist organization"
no wonder no one trusts the BHA and its spokesmen buzzy who come on here to spread disinformation
Why did Ronald Reagan pass the Mulford Act?
Why did Reagan write an op-ed in support of the Brady Bill?
buzzy how many millions do BHA executives receive from powerful gun ban lobbies every year?
Why did Ronald Reagan pass the Mulford Act?
Why did Reagan write an op-ed in support of the Brady Bill?
Why did Reagan say this?
"I do not believe in taking away the right of the citizen for sporting, for hunting and so forth, or for home defense," he said. "But I do believe that an AK-47, a machine gun, is not a sporting weapon or needed for defense of a home."
Reagan erred in his use of terminology: The type of weapon used by Patrick Purdy, and referenced by Reagan in his comment, was actually a semi-automatic version of the AK-47, not a "machine gun." In 1994 Reagan was a co-signatory (along with former presidents Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter) to a letter urging the U.S. House of Representatives to support a ban on the domestic manufacture of "assault weapons" such as semi-automatic AK-47s:
Ryan Busse: "The AR15 is mostly a symbol of political intimidation by the Right." Comment Buzz?
Care to comment on this:
May 3, 1994
To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives: We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.
The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.
While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
I plowed through much of this, painful though it was. Fairly typical pissing match with the majority on both sides afraid of answering questions.
I do have a few things to mention. I perused BHAs Facebook page and asked a few questions. It doesn't appear to be a very interactive page. Anywhere in their feed where I saw they mentioned working with a politician, that politician was a Democrat.
I had no idea who American Prairie was. I looked them up. What percentage of this BOD is Democrat? https://americanprairie.org/leadership/#national-board-of-directors I hate to judge based on looks, but there's a heavy team D influence in that group. ANYONE who trusts Democrats with their hunting and gun rights is a fool of the highest order.
Oh, so Reagan and Ford must have been democrats then? Keep going...I'm curious.
May 3, 1994
To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives: We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.
The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.
While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
Buzzy why is your friend and president of BHA Land Tawney engaged in anti gun politics?
I thought BHA was supposed to protect hunters not take away all of their hunting weapons?
Can you please explain this
Why did Ronald Reagan pass the Mulford Act?
Why did Reagan write an op-ed in support of the Brady Bill?
Why did Reagan say this?
"I do not believe in taking away the right of the citizen for sporting, for hunting and so forth, or for home defense," he said. "But I do believe that an AK-47, a machine gun, is not a sporting weapon or needed for defense of a home."
Reagan erred in his use of terminology: The type of weapon used by Patrick Purdy, and referenced by Reagan in his comment, was actually a semi-automatic version of the AK-47, not a "machine gun." In 1994 Reagan was a co-signatory (along with former presidents Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter) to a letter urging the U.S. House of Representatives to support a ban on the domestic manufacture of "assault weapons" such as semi-automatic AK-47s:
How did Reagan endorse this if he had Alzheimers at this time?
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by longarm
Ryan Busse: "The AR15 is mostly a symbol of political intimidation by the Right." Comment Buzz?
Care to comment on this:
May 3, 1994
To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives: We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.
The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.
While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
How much money does BHA receive from anti gun lobbies?
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by ribka
Buzzy why is your friend and president of BHA Land Tawney engaged in anti gun politics?
I thought BHA was supposed to protect hunters not take away all of their hunting weapons?
Can you please explain this
Why did Ronald Reagan pass the Mulford Act?
Why did Reagan write an op-ed in support of the Brady Bill?
Why did Reagan say this?
"I do not believe in taking away the right of the citizen for sporting, for hunting and so forth, or for home defense," he said. "But I do believe that an AK-47, a machine gun, is not a sporting weapon or needed for defense of a home."
Reagan erred in his use of terminology: The type of weapon used by Patrick Purdy, and referenced by Reagan in his comment, was actually a semi-automatic version of the AK-47, not a "machine gun." In 1994 Reagan was a co-signatory (along with former presidents Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter) to a letter urging the U.S. House of Representatives to support a ban on the domestic manufacture of "assault weapons" such as semi-automatic AK-47s:
[quote=longarm]Ryan Busse: "The AR15 is mostly a symbol of political intimidation by the Right." Comment Buzz?
Care to comment on this:
May 3, 1994
To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives: We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.
The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.
While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
Sincerely,
Gerald R. Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
Sure. In the 30 year old letter you have copied here, the entirety of the second paragraph, as well as salient points in the first and third, are complete bull8hit. Now, will you comment on your associates recent comments? Thanks
How did Reagan endorse this if he had Alzheimers at this time?
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by longarm
Ryan Busse: "The AR15 is mostly a symbol of political intimidation by the Right." Comment Buzz?
Care to comment on this:
May 3, 1994
To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives: We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.
The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.
While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
Sincerely,
Gerald R. Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
What about the Mulford Act? Going to blame that on Alzheimer's too? How about his banning of lion hunting? Another case of Alzheimers?
Oh, and Ronny didn't announce his Alzheimers until after he singed the letter...those pesky facts again.
Reagan was known to have dementia many years before this letter came out but suddenly he was fine to endorse it. Shows what a scum bags the anti gun lefties like buzzy are capable of
Originally Posted by longarm
Originally Posted by BuzzH
[quote
Originally Posted by BuzzH
[quote=longarm]Ryan Busse: "The AR15 is mostly a symbol of political intimidation by the Right." Comment Buzz?
Care to comment on this:
May 3, 1994
To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives: We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.
The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.
While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
Sincerely,
Gerald R. Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
Sure. In the 30 year old letter you have copied here, the entirety of the second paragraph, as well as salient points in the first and third, are complete bull8hit. Now, will you comment on your associates recent comments? Thanks
[quote=longarm]Ryan Busse: "The AR15 is mostly a symbol of political intimidation by the Right." Comment Buzz?
Care to comment on this:
May 3, 1994
To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives: We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.
The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.
While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
Sincerely,
Gerald R. Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
Sure. In the 30 year old letter you have copied here, the entirety of the second paragraph, as well as salient points in the first and third, are complete bull8hit. Now, will you comment on your associates recent comments? Thanks
They're in line with Ronald Reagans comments on gun control...something you should oppose in both cases. Unless your faux outrage is selective, of course.
Remember when Ronald was opposed to certain kinds of ammo?
Horrific...
In 1986, Congress passed, and Ronald Reagan signed into law, the Law Enforcement Officers Protection Act. It directed the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to ban certain types of ammunition that could pierce the body armor worn by police officers. The National Rifle Association had originally opposed the legislation -- which, in fact, was one of a series of events that caused a split between the NRA and most police associations -- but the logic behind it was irrefutable.
"Certain forms of ammunition have no legitimate sporting, recreational or self-defense use and thus should be prohibited," Reagan said during the signing ceremony. The House of Representatives passed the measure by a vote of 400-21.
Reagan was known to have dementia many years before this letter came out but suddenly he was fine to endorse it. Shows what a scum bags the anti gun lefties like buzzy are capable of
Originally Posted by longarm
Originally Posted by BuzzH
[quote
Originally Posted by BuzzH
[quote=longarm]Ryan Busse: "The AR15 is mostly a symbol of political intimidation by the Right." Comment Buzz?
Care to comment on this:
May 3, 1994
To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives: We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.
The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.
While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
Sincerely,
Gerald R. Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
Sure. In the 30 year old letter you have copied here, the entirety of the second paragraph, as well as salient points in the first and third, are complete bull8hit. Now, will you comment on your associates recent comments? Thanks
Right clear back when he was Governor of California...what a joke you are.
Ryan Busse: "The AR15 is mostly a symbol of political intimidation by the Right." Comment Buzz?
Care to comment on this:
May 3, 1994
To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives: We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.
The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.
While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
Sincerely,
Gerald R. Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
I'll comment. That was 30 years ago, and they were not friends of the second amendment.
so a recap. BHA is supposedly a group that raises money on the fact they support hunting and hunters.
However at the same time they want all of hunters firearms to be confiscated and receive tens of millions of dollars from well documented anti hunting groups and powerful anti gun lobbies AND IN FACT DO NOTHING FOR HUNTING AND FISHING
Curious what does this letter have to do with BHA ?
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by longarm
Ryan Busse: "The AR15 is mostly a symbol of political intimidation by the Right." Comment Buzz?
Care to comment on this:
May 3, 1994
To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives: We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.
The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.
While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
Sincerely,
Gerald R. Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
I'll comment. That was 30 years ago, and they were not friends of the second amendment.
Ryan Busse: "The AR15 is mostly a symbol of political intimidation by the Right." Comment Buzz?
Care to comment on this:
May 3, 1994
To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives: We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.
The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.
While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
Sincerely,
Gerald R. Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
I'll comment. That was 30 years ago, and they were not friends of the second amendment.
Yet Reagan is a folk hero on the fire, even though he had a long history of being anti-hunting and anti-second amendment.
I plowed through much of this, painful though it was. Fairly typical pissing match with the majority on both sides afraid of answering questions.
I do have a few things to mention. I perused BHAs Facebook page and asked a few questions. It doesn't appear to be a very interactive page. Anywhere in their feed where I saw they mentioned working with a politician, that politician was a Democrat.
I had no idea who American Prairie was. I looked them up. What percentage of this BOD is Democrat? https://americanprairie.org/leadership/#national-board-of-directors I hate to judge based on looks, but there's a heavy team D influence in that group. ANYONE who trusts Democrats with their hunting and gun rights is a fool of the highest order.
Oh, so Reagan and Ford must have been democrats then? Keep going...I'm curious.
May 3, 1994
To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives: We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.
The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.
While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
Sincerely,
Gerald R. Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
Good lort. That was 30 years ago. Can we focus on the problems of today rather than dredging up news from 3 decades ago? Anyone who trusts their gun rights to today's democrats is a damn fool.
It wasn't that long ago, I know because I advocated for it, that Montana Hunters didn't even have the ability or right to hunt State owned lands in Montana.
I realize a shade less than 200,000 acres (??) is a drop in the bucket compared to National Forests but seriously, hunting was outlawed there?
Quote
It’s not public, and the State Land Board will tell you that...in every State.
I know we’re merely talking semantics here, and I ain’t looking for cheap shots but….. …in at least seven western states, Washington, Montana, Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, Wyoming, and Idaho, the constitutions define state lands as public.
Quote
Montana has sold 700,000 acres since Statehood.
Which parcels and when? I mean you brung up Texas between 1850 thru 1901. I dunno if that’s actually relevant today, even in Texas 🙂
Quote
Bottom line, I win, you whine....fact.
I dunno if my reaction to that AP youtube about moving buffalo could be construed as whining. It was the presentation (OMG a corral and chute consists of “thousands of parts” :lol: ) and the quasi new-agey quasi tribal background music that made my skin crawl
Other than that I have just been asking the obvious questions.
You either have no clue or are unwilling to state what background entities provide the majority of AP funding.
Buzzy what does this have to do with BHA a supposedly pro hunting organization raising money from hunters to ban hunting and firearms?
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by longarm
Ryan Busse: "The AR15 is mostly a symbol of political intimidation by the Right." Comment Buzz?
Care to comment on this:
May 3, 1994
To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives: We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.
The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.
While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
Sincerely,
Gerald R. Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
I'll comment. That was 30 years ago, and they were not friends of the second amendment.
Yet Reagan is a folk hero on the fire, even though he had a long history of being anti-hunting and anti-second amendment.
[quote=BuzzH]I truly couldn't care less about where their funding comes from, some of it comes from me and my family. Lots of other MT hunters I know also contribute.
The issue in question isn’t if you care where the majority of the money comes from, you have been avoiding the question.
Where does the majority of their funding come from?
Quote
I also don't care about their staff members, all I've talked to have lots of experience, lots of knowledge, and are very pro hunting.
Strangely not reflected on their website and apparent target audience. You’re saying they walk like ducks and quack like ducks but they’re not.
Quote
There is NO way I would purchase and donate land to the State of Montana. The State is under a mandate to fund the state trust, not to do what's in the best interest of habitat, wildlife, public access. Their job it to raise revenue including selling off State lands. You need to realize, State land IS NOT public land. Montana has already sold off significant amounts of its lands they acquired since statehood.
Seven State Forests in Montana and they’re not public lands? Montana got statehood in 1889, how much have they sold in the 21st Century?
In Montana State-owned Trust Land supports public education, is all State-owned land Trust Land?
According to their website they’re all about biodiversity etc etc etc.
Quote
The one thing you're correct about is that they are very different from many private landowners. They aren't interested in developing their property, subdividing it, grazing it to dirt for profit, etc. etc.
How can you guess what they are interested in if you don’t know who’s paying?
Quote
Real obvious you have little experience and no ability to research.
No worries, I set the bar for myself pretty low 🙂
Quote
There is no reason for AP to donate their lands to the Feds or State, already gave you the reasons why. The reason you don't understand much about the State Trust lands is the fact you're a Texan.
State Trust Lands are those State-owned public lands set aside to generate funds for publulic education. But not all State lands are Trust Lands. OK, what did I miss?
Quote
It wasn't that long ago, I know because I advocated for it, that Montana Hunters didn't even have the ability or right to hunt State owned lands in Montana.
I realize a shade less than 200,000 acres (??) is a drop in the bucket compared to National Forests but serious, hunting was outlawed there?
Quote
It’s not public, and the State Land Board will tell you that...in every State.
I know we’re merely talking semantics here, and I ain’t looking for cheap shots but….. …in at least seven western states, Washington, Montana, Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, Wyoming, and Idaho, the constitutions to find state lands as public.
[b]Montana has sold 700,000 acres since Statehood.
Which parcels and when? I mean you brung up Texas between 1850 thru 1901. I dunno if that’s actually relevant today, even in Texas 🙂
Quote
Bottom line, I win, you whine....fact.
I dunno if my reaction to that AP youtube about moving buffalo could be construed as whining. It was the presentation (OMG a corral and chute consists of “thousands of parts” :lol: ) and the quasi new-agey quasi tribal background music that made my skin crawl
Other than that I have just been asking the obvious questions.
You either have no clue or are unwilling to state what background entities provide the majority of AP funding.
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
Actually as I recall it the Fish and Game Commissiion instuted the ban on lion hunting for 20 years so that they could study the lion population in the state. I don't remember Regan having anything to do with it. At that time they had a $50 bounty on lion's in California. When the ban was about to be lifted the Hollywood elite and SPCA got wind of it and got all up in arms and got a ballot measure to ban the hunting of lions passed(prop 117). I think I remember Dorris Day being behind it. Years later after lions killed and ate a few joggers we tried to pass prop 197 which would have allowed lion hunting to occur again but it failed to pass. So now we have lions everwhere including the SF Bay area Baylands. This state hired professional wildlife biologist but did not follow their advice.
In 1971, Gov. Ronald Reagan signed the four-year hunting moratorium. The state began tagging and tracking mountain lions. The predators could be killed for attacking humans or livestock with a permit good for just 10 days, and only within 10 miles of where the attack happened.
It took effect at the end of the lion season in 1972...and was signed by the Gipper.[/quote]
In 1971 I was attending Humboldt State University majoring in wildlife management. The proposed morotorium on lion hunting was a topic of discussion. This was being pushed by wildlife biologists and not Regan. They had no desire to ban lion hunting permentanly. The moritorium was to be only for 20 years.
Ryan Busse: "The AR15 is mostly a symbol of political intimidation by the Right." Comment Buzz?
Care to comment on this:
May 3, 1994
To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives: We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.
The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.
While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
Sincerely,
Gerald R. Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
I'll comment. That was 30 years ago, and they were not friends of the second amendment.
Yet Reagan is a folk hero on the fire, even though he had a long history of being anti-hunting and anti-second amendment.
SMH...
So, we can agree that Reagan was no friend to the 2A then, and Busse is no friend to the 2A now. Since one is dead, that leaves only one to take issue with.
Buzz BHA has millions of dollars raised off of the backs of hard working sportsmen. How much did BHA donate to reinstate California lion hunting and Washington State spring bear season?
How many millions and resources does BHA spend on anti gun politics and legislation Buzz?
Ryan Busse: "The AR15 is mostly a symbol of political intimidation by the Right." Comment Buzz?
Care to comment on this:
May 3, 1994
To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives: We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.
The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.
While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
Sincerely,
Gerald R. Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
I'll comment. That was 30 years ago, and they were not friends of the second amendment.
Yet Reagan is a folk hero on the fire, even though he had a long history of being anti-hunting and anti-second amendment.
SMH...
On balance, Reagan was a damn good president. He had his warts though, as most politicians do.
If BHA is working with Democrats, they'd better watch their back...unless of course their real intentions are other than what they profess. If APs BOD is a bunch of Democrats, you can rest assured that your hunting access is in jeopardy. I believe you said earlier that they were playing the long game. Yes they are, and little do people realize they'll happily use pawns in their game.
Did Reagan receive millions a year to work for anti gun legislation lobbies like the sportsmen group BHA? lol
you can go away with your lies now buzzy
Originally Posted by NH K9
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by longarm
Ryan Busse: "The AR15 is mostly a symbol of political intimidation by the Right." Comment Buzz?
Care to comment on this:
May 3, 1994
To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives: We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.
The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.
While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
Sincerely,
Gerald R. Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
I'll comment. That was 30 years ago, and they were not friends of the second amendment.
Yet Reagan is a folk hero on the fire, even though he had a long history of being anti-hunting and anti-second amendment.
SMH...
So, we can agree that Reagan was no friend to the 2A then, and Busse is no friend to the 2A now. Since one is dead, that leaves only one to take issue with.
And buzzy you're a BHA executive . Why does a hunting organization executive like you support a convicted anti hunting eco terrorist who spiked trees that injure loggers to run our public lands? What does supporting a convicted ecoterrorist have to do with hunting?
BuzzH WKR JoinedMay 27, 2017 LocationWyoming Jun 18, 2021 Add bookmark #5 ntrlbrnhunter said: Backcountry Hunters and Anglers publicly supporting an environmental nut job to run the Bureau of Land Management!!!???
Insane….
View attachment 300000 View attachment 300001
missoulian.com Biden nominee Tracy Stone-Manning blasted by GOP for link to 1989 logging sabotage Tracy Stone-Manning is facing GOP pressure to withdraw her BLM nomination from President Joe Biden over her ties to environmental activists convicted of spiking trees to sabotage a national forest missoulian.com missoulian.com
www.backcountryhunters.org BHA Responds to Nomination of Stone-Manning as BLM Director Backcountry Hunters & Anglers is the voice for our wild public lands, waters and wildlife. www.backcountryhunters.org www.backcountryhunters.org Click to expand... Can you share any information on Stone-Manning's conviction of being an eco-terrorist?
I'd be really interested in that article, court documents, etc.
Funding When looking at BHA’s funding sources, it’s easy to forget they have anything to do with hunting and fishing at all. All of its primary donors have extensive ties to environmental activist organizations.
The largest donor is the Western Conservation Foundation, which gave $278,423 to BHA in 2011 and 2012 alone. WCF has given handsomely over the years to notorious environmentalists and animal rights activists, including the Natural Resources Defense Council, the Audubon Society, Earthjustice (the self-proclaimed “law firm of the environment”), and Climate Solutions, a major proponent of “global warming.” It has also contributed large sums to the Tides Center, funder of all things leftist. It’s hard to imagine Western Conservation Foundation would donate over a quarter of a million dollars to Backcountry Hunters and Anglers if it wasn’t an organization that shared those same ideological beliefs.
The next largest donor to BHA is the Wilburforce Foundation. From 2009 to 2013, Wilburforce gave a total of $110,000 to BHA for a variety of purposes. As with the Western Conservation Foundation, Wilburforce gives heavily to other notorious environmentalists, including the Environmental Law Institute, the Sierra Foundation, and the Union of Concerned Scientists. Wilburforce’s executive director, Tim Greyhavens, previously worked for the Humane Society of the United States, a vegan activist organization with a PETA-like agenda. BHA also received a $69,000 donation in 2012 from Pew Charitable Trusts, which is famous for its ideological tilt. Other donors include the New Venture Fund ($30,000 total), Conservation Lands Foundation ($26,000 total), Lazar Foundation ($25,000 total), and The Brainerd Foundation ($8,000 total), whose mission is “to safeguard the environment and build broad citizen support for environmental protection.” As with WCF and Wilburforce, each of these organizations have deep connections with the environmental movement, which raises suspicions as to what BHA’s motivations truly are.
BHA Leadership Not only do BHA’s primary donors have extensive ties to the environmentalist movement, but its leadership does as well. A number of top executives and board members currently work or previously worked for notorious environmental activists.
Most prominent is BHA executive director Land Tawney, who ran the liberal political action committee (PAC) calling itself the “Montana Hunters and Anglers Leadership Fund” (MHA). In 2012, this pop-up PAC spent $1.1 million against Republican U.S. Senate candidate Danny Rehberg, who was challenging Democratic U.S. Sen. Jon Tester. The liberal MHA also spent $500,000 in support of the libertarian candidate as a strategy of drawing votes away from the Republican. MHA received several hundred thousand dollars from the League of Conservation Voters, a liberal environmentalist group. Tawney is also a member of the Montana Sportsmen for Obama Committee and previously served as the National Grassroots Coordinator for the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, which, like BHA, is an environmentalist front that poses as a hunter and fisher group.
Taken together, BHA’s funding sources and leadership make clear that the interests of hunters and anglers are the least of their concerns. Environmentalist activism is the name of the game at BHA, and hunters and anglers are just the facade.
California lion hunting ban happened in 1990, 14 years before BHA existed.
Oh, and look at that...the Gipper was an anti-hunter, not surprised since he was also anti-gun and pro gun control.
Voters approved Proposition 117 in 1990, to codify a long-standing moratorium on lion hunting that had first been imposed by then Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972.
Actually as I recall it the Fish and Game Commissiion instuted the ban on lion hunting for 20 years so that they could study the lion population in the state. I don't remember Regan having anything to do with it. At that time they had a $50 bounty on lion's in California. When the ban was about to be lifted the Hollywood elite and SPCA got wind of it and got all up in arms and got a ballot measure to ban the hunting of lions passed(prop 117). I think I remember Dorris Day being behind it. Years later after lions killed and ate a few joggers we tried to pass prop 197 which would have allowed lion hunting to occur again but it failed to pass. So now we have lions everwhere including the SF Bay area Baylands. This state hired professional wildlife biologist but did not follow their advice.
In 1971, Gov. Ronald Reagan signed the four-year hunting moratorium. The state began tagging and tracking mountain lions. The predators could be killed for attacking humans or livestock with a permit good for just 10 days, and only within 10 miles of where the attack happened.
It took effect at the end of the lion season in 1972...and was signed by the Gipper.
In 1971 I was attending Humboldt State University majoring in wildlife management. The proposed morotorium on lion hunting was a topic of discussion. This was being pushed by wildlife biologists and not Regan. They had no desire to ban lion hunting permentanly. The moritorium was to be only for 20 years.[/quote]
Funding When looking at BHA’s funding sources, it’s easy to forget they have anything to do with hunting and fishing at all. All of its primary donors have extensive ties to environmental activist organizations.
The largest donor is the Western Conservation Foundation, which gave $278,423 to BHA in 2011 and 2012 alone. WCF has given handsomely over the years to notorious environmentalists and animal rights activists, including the Natural Resources Defense Council, the Audubon Society, Earthjustice (the self-proclaimed “law firm of the environment”), and Climate Solutions, a major proponent of “global warming.” It has also contributed large sums to the Tides Center, funder of all things leftist. It’s hard to imagine Western Conservation Foundation would donate over a quarter of a million dollars to Backcountry Hunters and Anglers if it wasn’t an organization that shared those same ideological beliefs.
The next largest donor to BHA is the Wilburforce Foundation. From 2009 to 2013, Wilburforce gave a total of $110,000 to BHA for a variety of purposes. As with the Western Conservation Foundation, Wilburforce gives heavily to other notorious environmentalists, including the Environmental Law Institute, the Sierra Foundation, and the Union of Concerned Scientists. Wilburforce’s executive director, Tim Greyhavens, previously worked for the Humane Society of the United States, a vegan activist organization with a PETA-like agenda. BHA also received a $69,000 donation in 2012 from Pew Charitable Trusts, which is famous for its ideological tilt. Other donors include the New Venture Fund ($30,000 total), Conservation Lands Foundation ($26,000 total), Lazar Foundation ($25,000 total), and The Brainerd Foundation ($8,000 total), whose mission is “to safeguard the environment and build broad citizen support for environmental protection.” As with WCF and Wilburforce, each of these organizations have deep connections with the environmental movement, which raises suspicions as to what BHA’s motivations truly are.
BHA Leadership Not only do BHA’s primary donors have extensive ties to the environmentalist movement, but its leadership does as well. A number of top executives and board members currently work or previously worked for notorious environmental activists.
Most prominent is BHA executive director Land Tawney, who ran the liberal political action committee (PAC) calling itself the “Montana Hunters and Anglers Leadership Fund” (MHA). In 2012, this pop-up PAC spent $1.1 million against Republican U.S. Senate candidate Danny Rehberg, who was challenging Democratic U.S. Sen. Jon Tester. The liberal MHA also spent $500,000 in support of the libertarian candidate as a strategy of drawing votes away from the Republican. MHA received several hundred thousand dollars from the League of Conservation Voters, a liberal environmentalist group. Tawney is also a member of the Montana Sportsmen for Obama Committee and previously served as the National Grassroots Coordinator for the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, which, like BHA, is an environmentalist front that poses as a hunter and fisher group.
Taken together, BHA’s funding sources and leadership make clear that the interests of hunters and anglers are the least of their concerns. Environmentalist activism is the name of the game at BHA, and hunters and anglers are just the facade.
Nothing else need be said. They are a leftist organization. Rest assured that the left is using them for useful fools. When the left wants payback, they'll demand that BHA join them in anti-gun efforts such as "assault" weapons bans, so that they can claim a major gun/hunting organization support their efforts. This explains why Buzz was evasive, defensive and combative.
I plowed through much of this, painful though it was. Fairly typical pissing match with the majority on both sides afraid of answering questions.
I do have a few things to mention. I perused BHAs Facebook page and asked a few questions. It doesn't appear to be a very interactive page. Anywhere in their feed where I saw they mentioned working with a politician, that politician was a Democrat.
I had no idea who American Prairie was. I looked them up. What percentage of this BOD is Democrat? https://americanprairie.org/leadership/#national-board-of-directors I hate to judge based on looks, but there's a heavy team D influence in that group. ANYONE who trusts Democrats with their hunting and gun rights is a fool of the highest order.
Oh, so Reagan and Ford must have been democrats then? Keep going...I'm curious.
May 3, 1994
To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives: We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.
The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.
While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
Sincerely,
Gerald R. Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
Good lort. That was 30 years ago. Can we focus on the problems of today rather than dredging up news from 3 decades ago? Anyone who trusts their gun rights to today's democrats is a damn fool.
These problems today are because of the past weakening of the Second by people like Ronald Reagan...fact.
There are no new ideas since Reagan stabbed hunters and the second in the back...so sad.
The anti's follow the same playbook made popular by Reagan.
Funding When looking at BHA’s funding sources, it’s easy to forget they have anything to do with hunting and fishing at all. All of its primary donors have extensive ties to environmental activist organizations.
The largest donor is the Western Conservation Foundation, which gave $278,423 to BHA in 2011 and 2012 alone. WCF has given handsomely over the years to notorious environmentalists and animal rights activists, including the Natural Resources Defense Council, the Audubon Society, Earthjustice (the self-proclaimed “law firm of the environment”), and Climate Solutions, a major proponent of “global warming.” It has also contributed large sums to the Tides Center, funder of all things leftist. It’s hard to imagine Western Conservation Foundation would donate over a quarter of a million dollars to Backcountry Hunters and Anglers if it wasn’t an organization that shared those same ideological beliefs.
The next largest donor to BHA is the Wilburforce Foundation. From 2009 to 2013, Wilburforce gave a total of $110,000 to BHA for a variety of purposes. As with the Western Conservation Foundation, Wilburforce gives heavily to other notorious environmentalists, including the Environmental Law Institute, the Sierra Foundation, and the Union of Concerned Scientists. Wilburforce’s executive director, Tim Greyhavens, previously worked for the Humane Society of the United States, a vegan activist organization with a PETA-like agenda. BHA also received a $69,000 donation in 2012 from Pew Charitable Trusts, which is famous for its ideological tilt. Other donors include the New Venture Fund ($30,000 total), Conservation Lands Foundation ($26,000 total), Lazar Foundation ($25,000 total), and The Brainerd Foundation ($8,000 total), whose mission is “to safeguard the environment and build broad citizen support for environmental protection.” As with WCF and Wilburforce, each of these organizations have deep connections with the environmental movement, which raises suspicions as to what BHA’s motivations truly are.
BHA Leadership Not only do BHA’s primary donors have extensive ties to the environmentalist movement, but its leadership does as well. A number of top executives and board members currently work or previously worked for notorious environmental activists.
Most prominent is BHA executive director Land Tawney, who ran the liberal political action committee (PAC) calling itself the “Montana Hunters and Anglers Leadership Fund” (MHA). In 2012, this pop-up PAC spent $1.1 million against Republican U.S. Senate candidate Danny Rehberg, who was challenging Democratic U.S. Sen. Jon Tester. The liberal MHA also spent $500,000 in support of the libertarian candidate as a strategy of drawing votes away from the Republican. MHA received several hundred thousand dollars from the League of Conservation Voters, a liberal environmentalist group. Tawney is also a member of the Montana Sportsmen for Obama Committee and previously served as the National Grassroots Coordinator for the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, which, like BHA, is an environmentalist front that poses as a hunter and fisher group.
Taken together, BHA’s funding sources and leadership make clear that the interests of hunters and anglers are the least of their concerns. Environmentalist activism is the name of the game at BHA, and hunters and anglers are just the facade.
Already been established Berman and Coggins have no credibility and Tester never ran against "Danny Rehberg".
1. Folk hero Ronald Reagan was a full on anti-hunting, anti-ammo, anti-gun, second amendment hating President who started the modern day anti-hunting and gun control movement via the Mulford Act, banning lion hunting, and getting the Brady bill across the finish line.
2. AP is a great organization that provides excellent public access to not only their lands, but also through their land opening up just shy of a half a million acres. They also allow hunting, fishing, and other recreation on their property, even allowing their bison to be hunted. They have excellent habitat and are the best thing to happen in to NE Montana ever. AP is a winning organization and is getting lots of support and they will reach their goals.
3. Texans know very little about State lands and how they work, but because of my excellent skills in providing facts, rather than a bunch of BS, its clear that States have sold, squandered, and given away their State Trust lands over the years. They need to be watched like a hawk, by excellent groups like BHA who stop things like the Bonander exchange in Wyoming. Further, this is proof that AP should NOT be donating any land to the State of Montana.
4. I've also educated at least one Texan, that it wasn't that long ago lessee's of State lands in Montana kept hunters off of state land, and that only through efforts like those of Jack Atcheson Sr. and dedicated sportsmen like myself, we fought for the ability to hunt State lands.
5. BHA in Wyoming has done some great things for access and all hunters here. Raymond Mountain Access, $34,000 to AccessYes that opened up over 100,000 acres of private lands to hunting and fishing. We are also a federal court case away from opening up another 8.4 million acres in the U.S. to hunting and fishing. A case that BHA has funded to the tune of $120,000 from around 2200 donors who also believe in BHA and public access.
6. Although very modest, humble, and smart, its pretty well a fact that I hunt more than nearly all the 24 hour campfire regulars. There's a few on here that hunt at least as much and maybe more, but they are also very modest type's as well.
7. There are a lot of hunters on 24 that purchase beef, that one was a bit shocking, being a hunting and site and all.
8. Tribes managed to get 25 million to expand their bison herds, which has caused faux outrage on the fire. But it did lead to this awesome thread that has brought many important facts out.
I call this thread a very big success in getting the above facts out on the table.
Funding When looking at BHA’s funding sources, it’s easy to forget they have anything to do with hunting and fishing at all. All of its primary donors have extensive ties to environmental activist organizations.
The largest donor is the Western Conservation Foundation, which gave $278,423 to BHA in 2011 and 2012 alone. WCF has given handsomely over the years to notorious environmentalists and animal rights activists, including the Natural Resources Defense Council, the Audubon Society, Earthjustice (the self-proclaimed “law firm of the environment”), and Climate Solutions, a major proponent of “global warming.” It has also contributed large sums to the Tides Center, funder of all things leftist. It’s hard to imagine Western Conservation Foundation would donate over a quarter of a million dollars to Backcountry Hunters and Anglers if it wasn’t an organization that shared those same ideological beliefs.
The next largest donor to BHA is the Wilburforce Foundation. From 2009 to 2013, Wilburforce gave a total of $110,000 to BHA for a variety of purposes. As with the Western Conservation Foundation, Wilburforce gives heavily to other notorious environmentalists, including the Environmental Law Institute, the Sierra Foundation, and the Union of Concerned Scientists. Wilburforce’s executive director, Tim Greyhavens, previously worked for the Humane Society of the United States, a vegan activist organization with a PETA-like agenda. BHA also received a $69,000 donation in 2012 from Pew Charitable Trusts, which is famous for its ideological tilt. Other donors include the New Venture Fund ($30,000 total), Conservation Lands Foundation ($26,000 total), Lazar Foundation ($25,000 total), and The Brainerd Foundation ($8,000 total), whose mission is “to safeguard the environment and build broad citizen support for environmental protection.” As with WCF and Wilburforce, each of these organizations have deep connections with the environmental movement, which raises suspicions as to what BHA’s motivations truly are.
BHA Leadership Not only do BHA’s primary donors have extensive ties to the environmentalist movement, but its leadership does as well. A number of top executives and board members currently work or previously worked for notorious environmental activists.
Most prominent is BHA executive director Land Tawney, who ran the liberal political action committee (PAC) calling itself the “Montana Hunters and Anglers Leadership Fund” (MHA). In 2012, this pop-up PAC spent $1.1 million against Republican U.S. Senate candidate Danny Rehberg, who was challenging Democratic U.S. Sen. Jon Tester. The liberal MHA also spent $500,000 in support of the libertarian candidate as a strategy of drawing votes away from the Republican. MHA received several hundred thousand dollars from the League of Conservation Voters, a liberal environmentalist group. Tawney is also a member of the Montana Sportsmen for Obama Committee and previously served as the National Grassroots Coordinator for the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, which, like BHA, is an environmentalist front that poses as a hunter and fisher group.
Taken together, BHA’s funding sources and leadership make clear that the interests of hunters and anglers are the least of their concerns. Environmentalist activism is the name of the game at BHA, and hunters and anglers are just the facade.
Nothing else need be said. They are a leftist organization. Rest assured that the left is using them for useful fools. When the left wants payback, they'll demand that BHA join them in anti-gun efforts such as "assault" weapons bans, so that they can claim a major gun/hunting organization support their efforts. This explains why Buzz was evasive, defensive and combative.
So you’re working for the anti gun lobby Gabby Giffords like Busse and Tawney at BHA
Not surprised at all.
Banning hunters’ firearms will help sportsmen Lol
What a scum bag grifter
Are you going to get under the table non res tags like newberg too for your grift?
Originally Posted by BuzzH
So...to put a bow on this awesome thread.
1. Folk hero Ronald Reagan was a full on anti-hunting, anti-ammo, anti-gun, second amendment hating President who started the modern day anti-hunting and gun control movement via the Mulford Act, banning lion hunting, and getting the Brady bill across the finish line.
2. AP is a great organization that provides excellent public access to not only their lands, but also through their land opening up just shy of a half a million acres. They also allow hunting, fishing, and other recreation on their property, even allowing their bison to be hunted. They have excellent habitat and are the best thing to happen in to NE Montana ever. AP is a winning organization and is getting lots of support and they will reach their goals.
3. Texans know very little about State lands and how they work, but because of my excellent skills in providing facts, rather than a bunch of BS, its clear that States have sold, squandered, and given away their State Trust lands over the years. They need to be watched like a hawk, by excellent groups like BHA who stop things like the Bonander exchange in Wyoming. Further, this is proof that AP should NOT be donating any land to the State of Montana.
4. I've also educated at least one Texan, that it wasn't that long ago lessee's of State lands in Montana kept hunters off of state land, and that only through efforts like those of Jack Atcheson Sr. and dedicated sportsmen like myself, we fought for the ability to hunt State lands.
5. BHA in Wyoming has done some great things for access and all hunters here. Raymond Mountain Access, $34,000 to AccessYes that opened up over 100,000 acres of private lands to hunting and fishing. We are also a federal court case away from opening up another 8.4 million acres in the U.S. to hunting and fishing. A case that BHA has funded to the tune of $120,000 from around 2200 donors who also believe in BHA and public access.
6. Although very modest, humble, and smart, its pretty well a fact that I hunt more than nearly all the 24 hour campfire regulars. There's a few on here that hunt at least as much and maybe more, but they are also very modest type's as well.
7. There are a lot of hunters on 24 that purchase beef, that one was a bit shocking, being a hunting and site and all.
8. Tribes managed to get 25 million to expand their bison herds, which has caused faux outrage on the fire. But it did lead to this awesome thread that has brought many important facts out.
I call this thread a very big success in getting the above facts out on the table.
You might fool the impressionable soy boys but you don't fool us.
You're a worthless pig eyed 'tard.
Buzz is far from a "tard".
If you don't agree with him then understand he is going to bring his A game to the discussion and he has a decent track record of getting things done.
Best thing you guys in MT can do is get a good replacement for Tester into the Senate.
There will be some skilled political operatives trying to convince MT hunters and farmers that Tester is their guy but they won't be "tard"s. They will be players and underestimating them is exactly how they got Tester in the last time in 2016.
CHapter Leader Workshop at the BHA Rendezvous - Backcountry ... Backcountry Hunters and Anglers › chapter_leader_workshop_at_the_bha_ren... Thumbnail image ... Land, Katie, Frankie, Tim and Ryan Busse – National Board Chair ... Abe Henderson Buzz Hettick Jarrett Babincsak Jeffrey Jones Ryan Cavanaugh John ...
Buzzy caught lying again
I don't even know this Busse guy. You were both BHA executives for years together
In 1971 I was attending Humboldt State University majoring in wildlife management. The proposed morotorium on lion hunting was a topic of discussion. This was being pushed by wildlife biologists and not Regan. They had no desire to ban lion hunting permentanly. The moritorium was to be only for 20 years.[/quote]
He signed it...FACT.[/quote]
Did he really sign it? I was under the impression the fish and game commission did not need the governor's signature on hunting rule changes. I might be mistaken. Sure the governor is the chief executive but does he really have to sign off on everything the commission does. I honestly do not know the answer to this question but you seem to believe that Regan was responsible for the moritorium on lion hunting. As I stated earlier it was wildlife biologists that were pushing it.
So a hunting organization. like BHA teaming up with eco terrorists, anti hunting groups, left wing anti gun lobbies will help our hunting in the future?
lol
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Originally Posted by SamOlson
You might fool the impressionable soy boys but you don't fool us.
You're a worthless pig eyed 'tard.
Buzz is far from a "tard".
If you don't agree with him then understand he is going to bring his A game to the discussion and he has a decent track record of getting things done.
Best thing you guys in MT can do is get a good replacement for Tester into the Senate.
There will be some skilled political operatives trying to convince MT hunters and farmers that Tester is their guy but they won't be "tard"s. They will be players and underestimating them is exactly how they got Tester in the last time in 2016.
CHapter Leader Workshop at the BHA Rendezvous - Backcountry ... Backcountry Hunters and Anglers › chapter_leader_workshop_at_the_bha_ren... Thumbnail image ... Land, Katie, Frankie, Tim and Ryan Busse – National Board Chair ... Abe Henderson Buzz Hettick Jarrett Babincsak Jeffrey Jones Ryan Cavanaugh John ...
Buzzy caught lying again
I don't even know this Busse guy. You were both BHA executives for years together
I met him once...like I said, when he worked at Kimber.
Let's see here, a snip from the 2021 annual report: Grant Revenue $2,653,410 Events and Miscellaneous $890,327 Membership $1,095,052
So "grant revenue" meaning large checks from anonymous foundations, was 2 and a half times what the membership paid in. And this, from the financial audit report:
Paycheck Protection Program During the years ended December 31, 2021 and 2020, the Organization was the recipient of loans received under the Paycheck Protection Program administered by the U.S. Small Business Administration. These loans, including accrued interest, were forgiven in August 2021 and November 2020, respectively. Principle and interest forgiven in the amounts of $429,536 and $441,496, respectively, are included in grant revenues in the statements of activities for the years ended December 31, 2021 and 2020, consistent with FASB ASC 958-605.
So that's a million bucks of taxpayer cash for an org that is exempt from federal taxation.
So a hunting organization. like BHA teaming up with eco terrorists, anti hunting groups, left wing anti gun lobbies will help our hunting in the future?
lol
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Originally Posted by SamOlson
You might fool the impressionable soy boys but you don't fool us.
You're a worthless pig eyed 'tard.
Buzz is far from a "tard".
If you don't agree with him then understand he is going to bring his A game to the discussion and he has a decent track record of getting things done.
Best thing you guys in MT can do is get a good replacement for Tester into the Senate.
There will be some skilled political operatives trying to convince MT hunters and farmers that Tester is their guy but they won't be "tard"s. They will be players and underestimating them is exactly how they got Tester in the last time in 2016.
I guess the BHA web site is lying again stating you attended a work shop with Busse. Took 5 seconds to find. Lmao
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by ribka
CHapter Leader Workshop at the BHA Rendezvous - Backcountry ... Backcountry Hunters and Anglers › chapter_leader_workshop_at_the_bha_ren... Thumbnail image ... Land, Katie, Frankie, Tim and Ryan Busse – National Board Chair ... Abe Henderson Buzz Hettick Jarrett Babincsak Jeffrey Jones Ryan Cavanaugh John ...
Buzzy caught lying again
I don't even know this Busse guy. You were both BHA executives for years together
I met him once...like I said, when he worked at Kimber.
So a hunting organization. like BHA teaming up with eco terrorists, anti hunting groups, left wing anti gun lobbies will help our hunting in the future?
lol
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Originally Posted by SamOlson
You might fool the impressionable soy boys but you don't fool us.
You're a worthless pig eyed 'tard.
Buzz is far from a "tard".
If you don't agree with him then understand he is going to bring his A game to the discussion and he has a decent track record of getting things done.
Best thing you guys in MT can do is get a good replacement for Tester into the Senate.
There will be some skilled political operatives trying to convince MT hunters and farmers that Tester is their guy but they won't be "tard"s. They will be players and underestimating them is exactly how they got Tester in the last time in 2016.
Love me some silvers, but we were too early for them when we visited Kodiak last year. Very fortunate to have a bud who lives there in the summer who let us use his skiff and stay at his place.
Love me some silvers, but we were too early for them when we visited Kodiak last year. Very fortunate to have a bud who lives there in the summer who let us use his skiff and stay at his place.
We got into a good mixed bag.
Nice mixed bag...what I like about fishing the salt.
Love me some silvers, but we were too early for them when we visited Kodiak last year. Very fortunate to have a bud who lives there in the summer who let us use his skiff and stay at his place.
We got into a good mixed bag.
Nice mixed bag...what I like about fishing the salt.
How do you like the grey cod?
Starting to become my favorite..
I normally like cod quite a bit, but the few pieces that I brought back were unusually tough. Have no idea why. All of this was in a 16' riveted skiff within a mile of land. Had a brown bear visit our cleaning station our last day there. Young one. Probably 3 years old. Damn, I love Alaska.
I downloaded BHA's Form 990 tax return (2020, that's three years ago) from Guidestar. They claim 550 volunteers. Total revenues were 4.7 million Payroll, 2.28 million, with 135 K plus bennies going to Land Tawney and 103 plus to Frankie McBurney-Olson. Buzzard isn't an executive, Busse was 2 hours a week unpaid "director" No "independent contractors" making over 100 grand are listed
Membership dues collected: 1.11 million
About 2.9 million came from other than members. The Form 990 Schedule B shows a listing of five pretty fat grants: 1. 400,000 2. 367 000 3. 150,000 4. 90,000 5. 441,496
That's 1.449 million in just five checks, all of them totally "not open to public inspection." And the total covers only those grant in the category of being, singly, more than two percent of BHA's income each. Normally the schedule B All told, these five anonymized grants alone are half again membership "dues." They alone are a fully thirty percent of BHA income. Who made these grants? Well, that's like being a salmon swimming up a sewer pipe. We peasants get to swim in the political sewage, but finding who flushed the cash? Not for peasants. But Land Tawney knows who butters his bread, and he'll never tell.
Montana voters like Tester, they always have...I'll visit with him in D.C. in a couple months.
Not just the lies....the ferocity of your lies.
Stunning.
You know what's stunning, is a state massively supporting Trump and still electing Tester...
Stew on that one for a while.
Politics can be weird sometimes. Louisiana is solidly red. We have a second term Democrat governor. He got elected because Bobby Jindall (R) was a horrible governor and the R candidates were weak. He has been more fiscally conservative than Jindall was.
Anyone who thinks Buzz is a tard or an idiot need to learn a lesson in persuasion.
Paul goes from this thinking:
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Nothing else need be said. They are a leftist organization. Rest assured that the left is using them for useful fools. When the left wants payback, they'll demand that BHA join them in anti-gun efforts such as "assault" weapons bans, so that they can claim a major gun/hunting organization support their efforts. This explains why Buzz was evasive, defensive and combative.
To this thinking in the same thread.
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Nice mixed bag...what I like about fishing the salt.
How do you like the grey cod?
Starting to become my favorite..
I normally like cod quite a bit, but the few pieces that I brought back were unusually tough. Have no idea why. All of this was in a 16' riveted skiff within a mile of land. Had a brown bear visit our cleaning station our last day there. Young one. Probably 3 years old. Damn, I love Alaska.
Not making fun of Paul just showing how the Green Decoys work.
Anyone thinking Buzz is a tard or idiot is very far behind the power curve in the game Buzz is playing.
If you live in MT the Senate election in 2024 is important to the entire nation and Tester need to be retired.
Montana voters like Tester, they always have...I'll visit with him in D.C. in a couple months.
Not just the lies....the ferocity of your lies.
Stunning.
You know what's stunning, is a state massively supporting Trump and still electing Tester...
Stew on that one for a while.
Politics can be weird sometimes. Louisiana is solidly red. We have a second term Democrat governor. He got elected because Bobby Jindall (R) was a horrible governor and the R candidates were weak. He has been more fiscally conservative than Jindall was.
I agree somewhat, but Tester does a lot of good work for veterans, first responders, wildland fire fighters, hunters, anglers, public lands, all things that are important to Montana voters.
I wasn't surprised he was re-elected last time, and wont be surprised if he wins again.
I'll be asking for his support/sponsoring on a bill I'm going to lobby for in D.C. in a couple months.
Anyone who thinks Buzz is a tard or an idiot need to learn a lesson in persuasion.
Paul goes from this thinking:
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Nothing else need be said. They are a leftist organization. Rest assured that the left is using them for useful fools. When the left wants payback, they'll demand that BHA join them in anti-gun efforts such as "assault" weapons bans, so that they can claim a major gun/hunting organization support their efforts. This explains why Buzz was evasive, defensive and combative.
To this thinking in the same thread.
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Nice mixed bag...what I like about fishing the salt.
How do you like the grey cod?
Starting to become my favorite..
I normally like cod quite a bit, but the few pieces that I brought back were unusually tough. Have no idea why. All of this was in a 16' riveted skiff within a mile of land. Had a brown bear visit our cleaning station our last day there. Young one. Probably 3 years old. Damn, I love Alaska.
Not making fun of Paul just showing how the Green Decoys work.
Anyone thinking Buzz is a tard or idiot is very far behind the power curve in the game Buzz is playing.
If you live in MT the Senate election in 2024 is important to the entire nation and Tester need to be retired.
Oh, come on kitten, you would vote for Tester if you were a Montana Resident and you know it.
You'd just talk tough on the fire like the rest of the Montana Residents here do...while pulling the lever for Jon.
Paul is weak minded and goes wherever the trend goes. He constantly contradicts his own thinking.
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Anyone who thinks Buzz is a tard or an idiot need to learn a lesson in persuasion.
Paul goes from this thinking:
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Nothing else need be said. They are a leftist organization. Rest assured that the left is using them for useful fools. When the left wants payback, they'll demand that BHA join them in anti-gun efforts such as "assault" weapons bans, so that they can claim a major gun/hunting organization support their efforts. This explains why Buzz was evasive, defensive and combative.
To this thinking in the same thread.
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Nice mixed bag...what I like about fishing the salt.
How do you like the grey cod?
Starting to become my favorite..
I normally like cod quite a bit, but the few pieces that I brought back were unusually tough. Have no idea why. All of this was in a 16' riveted skiff within a mile of land. Had a brown bear visit our cleaning station our last day there. Young one. Probably 3 years old. Damn, I love Alaska.
Not making fun of Paul just showing how the Green Decoys work.
Anyone thinking Buzz is a tard or idiot is very far behind the power curve in the game Buzz is playing.
If you live in MT the Senate election in 2024 is important to the entire nation and Tester need to be retired.
Anyone who thinks Buzz is a tard or an idiot need to learn a lesson in persuasion.
Paul goes from this thinking:
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Nothing else need be said. They are a leftist organization. Rest assured that the left is using them for useful fools. When the left wants payback, they'll demand that BHA join them in anti-gun efforts such as "assault" weapons bans, so that they can claim a major gun/hunting organization support their efforts. This explains why Buzz was evasive, defensive and combative.
To this thinking in the same thread.
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Nice mixed bag...what I like about fishing the salt.
How do you like the grey cod?
Starting to become my favorite..
I normally like cod quite a bit, but the few pieces that I brought back were unusually tough. Have no idea why. All of this was in a 16' riveted skiff within a mile of land. Had a brown bear visit our cleaning station our last day there. Young one. Probably 3 years old. Damn, I love Alaska.
Not making fun of Paul just showing how the Green Decoys work.
Anyone thinking Buzz is a tard or idiot is very far behind the power curve in the game Buzz is playing.
If you live in MT the Senate election in 2024 is important to the entire nation and Tester need to be retired.
Buzz is very smart indeed. At first blush it seems he's naive for not realizing that the Democrat run group AP is using him as a tool. But he's smart enough to know what's going on. He's complicit.
Any 5 year old old with Google would figure his grift out in 2 minutes
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Anyone who thinks Buzz is a tard or an idiot need to learn a lesson in persuasion.
Paul goes from this thinking:
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Nothing else need be said. They are a leftist organization. Rest assured that the left is using them for useful fools. When the left wants payback, they'll demand that BHA join them in anti-gun efforts such as "assault" weapons bans, so that they can claim a major gun/hunting organization support their efforts. This explains why Buzz was evasive, defensive and combative.
To this thinking in the same thread.
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Nice mixed bag...what I like about fishing the salt.
How do you like the grey cod?
Starting to become my favorite..
I normally like cod quite a bit, but the few pieces that I brought back were unusually tough. Have no idea why. All of this was in a 16' riveted skiff within a mile of land. Had a brown bear visit our cleaning station our last day there. Young one. Probably 3 years old. Damn, I love Alaska.
Not making fun of Paul just showing how the Green Decoys work.
Anyone thinking Buzz is a tard or idiot is very far behind the power curve in the game Buzz is playing.
If you live in MT the Senate election in 2024 is important to the entire nation and Tester need to be retired.
Buzz is very smart indeed. At first blush it seems he's naive for not realizing that the Democrat run group AP is using him as a tool. But he's smart enough to know what's going on. He's complicit.
You know, you nailed me on that. If there is one thing that defines my presence here, it's marching in lockstep with the forum groupthink. What color is your bicycle helmet?
You know, you nailed me on that. If there is one thing that defines my presence here, it's marching in lockstep with the forum groupthink. What color is your bicycle helmet?
It’s pink and has a George Floyd angel sticker like yours lol
Annoying Buzz guy is probably correct on AP land will be open to hunting. If you you're a club member and have enough cash.
When they're not busy meeting at micro brewies, BHA are public access hunting advocates - that's what their marketing literature says.
Most of the AP land is in the MT Block Management public access program.
It better to not post than to post your feels.
I hope a few here are seeing how the game is played and who is playing at a higher level.
MT hunters, shooters, farmers, and ranchers need to bring their A game to the 2024 election.
MT's Senate election is going to be one of the most important in the Nation and probably the highest dollar spent per vote unless the Dems recognize Tester is a lost cause.
Burns. The APR land is in block management, but is a type 2 which means it’s not open to access unless you have reservations. The land bordering ours in the breaks never has anyone on it at designated parking areas which are the only option to park, yet you can’t get one for a single date of rifle or bow season when you call because it is already reserved. So maybe it is just portrayed as open to hunting. Or the elite have all the reserved dates whether they make it over to hunt or not ? Whether they are playing the better or not isn’t the issue. Zero support among local breaks property owners. Zero.
Burns. The APR land is in block management, but is a type 2 which means it’s not open to access unless you have reservations. The land bordering ours in the breaks never has anyone on it at designated parking areas which are the only option to park, yet you can’t get one for a single date of rifle or bow season when you call because it is already reserved. So maybe it is just portrayed as open to hunting. Or the elite have all the reserved dates whether they make it over to hunt or not ? Whether they are playing the better or not isn’t the issue. Zero support among local breaks property owners. Zero.
Thanks for the info as I did not know there were different types of block management.
Buzzy and his brother seem able to hunt, maybe he will explain how to get the access he is granted?
Buzzy care to explain how you hunted the AP ground and how the rest of the public can enjoy such access?
Burns. The APR land is in block management, but is a type 2 which means it’s not open to access unless you have reservations. The land bordering ours in the breaks never has anyone on it at designated parking areas which are the only option to park, yet you can’t get one for a single date of rifle or bow season when you call because it is already reserved. So maybe it is just portrayed as open to hunting. Or the elite have all the reserved dates whether they make it over to hunt or not ? Whether they are playing the better or not isn’t the issue. Zero support among local breaks property owners. Zero.
BHA is going to save public hunting !lol
thanks for first hand input and not BHA lies like Buzzy posts
Burns. The APR land is in block management, but is a type 2 which means it’s not open to access unless you have reservations. The land bordering ours in the breaks never has anyone on it at designated parking areas which are the only option to park, yet you can’t get one for a single date of rifle or bow season when you call because it is already reserved. So maybe it is just portrayed as open to hunting. Or the elite have all the reserved dates whether they make it over to hunt or not ? Whether they are playing the better or not isn’t the issue. Zero support among local breaks property owners. Zero.
Thanks for the info as I did not know there were different types of block management.
Buzzy and his brother seem able to hunt, maybe he will explain how to get the access he is granted?
Buzzy care to explain how you hunted the AP ground and how the rest of the public can enjoy such access?
asks Buzzy how he hunts elk on closed forest service roads.
Ok genius , why does BHA upper management put most of their resources into anti gun legislation and not hunting?
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Originally Posted by lostleader
Annoying Buzz guy is probably correct on AP land will be open to hunting. If you you're a club member and have enough cash.
When they're not busy meeting at micro brewies, BHA are public access hunting advocates - that's what their marketing literature says.
Most of the AP land is in the MT Block Management public access program.
It better to not post than to post your feels.
I hope a few here are seeing how the game is played and who is playing at a higher level.
MT hunters, shooters, farmers, and ranchers need to bring their A game to the 2024 election.
MT's Senate election is going to be one of the most important in the Nation and probably the highest dollar spent per vote unless the Dems recognize Tester is a lost cause.
Ok genius , why does BHA upper management put most of their resources into anti gun legislation and not hunting?
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Originally Posted by lostleader
Annoying Buzz guy is probably correct on AP land will be open to hunting. If you you're a club member and have enough cash.
When they're not busy meeting at micro brewies, BHA are public access hunting advocates - that's what their marketing literature says.
Most of the AP land is in the MT Block Management public access program.
It better to not post than to post your feels.
I hope a few here are seeing how the game is played and who is playing at a higher level.
MT hunters, shooters, farmers, and ranchers need to bring their A game to the 2024 election.
MT's Senate election is going to be one of the most important in the Nation and probably the highest dollar spent per vote unless the Dems recognize Tester is a lost cause.
Burns. The APR land is in block management, but is a type 2 which means it’s not open to access unless you have reservations. The land bordering ours in the breaks never has anyone on it at designated parking areas which are the only option to park, yet you can’t get one for a single date of rifle or bow season when you call because it is already reserved. So maybe it is just portrayed as open to hunting. Or the elite have all the reserved dates whether they make it over to hunt or not ? Whether they are playing the better or not isn’t the issue. Zero support among local breaks property owners. Zero.
Thanks for the info as I did not know there were different types of block management.
Buzzy and his brother seem able to hunt, maybe he will explain how to get the access he is granted?
Buzzy care to explain how you hunted the AP ground and how the rest of the public can enjoy such access?
JFC, it's no wonder the 24 brain trust can't kill chit...
Buzz what APR property has a sign in box that is a type 1 BMA? The few I have first hand experience with have sign in boxes and BMA sign in slips but are clearly marked and regulated as a type 2 BMA needing prior permission/reservation to be legally accessing it. You can’t just sign and go hunt like type 1 BMA properties.
You absolutely can not put Montana State land in Block Management.
I suspect you cant enroll BLM either.
APR lives and dies on BLM land.
If a BLM parcel is land locked by private and that private is in block management then the access to the BLM is under the block management rules.
That would seem to be the way it would work but as we can see I am far from a MT Block Mag expert.
We are waiting for Buzzy to clear up how he obtained such nice access to the AP block management when locals say it's next to impossible.
Buzzy?
You see...you need a writing utensil, and fill out this permission slip...name, address, license plate number.
John, it's about like the HMA program. The type 1 BM, is sign in...essentially like our unlimited permission slips for an HMA. Type 2 is like the HMAs that are on a draw, or first come first serve.
These idiots haven't hunted AP...obviously. of course they all probably will now that I got the crayons out to explain it
The BHA web site is lying and you never held a leadership position at BHA when Busse was in control and never met with the BHA leader and anti gun activist Busse?
Tell us more about the time you worked for Ted turner or are going to lie about that too. Go back to your bottle
lol
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Originally Posted by shootAI
Burns. The APR land is in block management, but is a type 2 which means it’s not open to access unless you have reservations. The land bordering ours in the breaks never has anyone on it at designated parking areas which are the only option to park, yet you can’t get one for a single date of rifle or bow season when you call because it is already reserved. So maybe it is just portrayed as open to hunting. Or the elite have all the reserved dates whether they make it over to hunt or not ? Whether they are playing the better or not isn’t the issue. Zero support among local breaks property owners. Zero.
Thanks for the info as I did not know there were different types of block management.
Buzzy and his brother seem able to hunt, maybe he will explain how to get the access he is granted?
Buzzy care to explain how you hunted the AP ground and how the rest of the public can enjoy such access?
JFC, it's no wonder the 24 brain trust can't kill chit...
Buzz what APR property has a sign in box that is a type 1 BMA? The few I have first hand experience with have sign in boxes and BMA sign in slips but are clearly marked and regulated as a type 2 BMA needing prior permission/reservation to be legally accessing it. You can’t just sign and go hunt like type 1 BMA properties.
Thanks Burns for a polite response. To my original post. Generally avoid most conversations but this one is a personal frustration as we have tried to follow the process with APR and FWP and have been denied access for years based on not being able to obtain a reservation during a valid season to access it. You can’t even kill coyotes or prairie dogs on their land.
Some BLM land within are 410 are somehow Enrolled in the BMA program. Look at land enrolled via chain buttes grazing association or swinging H grazing association BMA’s.
So Buzz you can’t tell me the name of the APR BMA property where an individual can just sign in and hunt without it reservation?
North side of the river...figure it out. No I'm not posting it on this site. I don't need to be picking up beer cans, whiskey bottles, and little Debbie wrappers when I hunt there next.
So Buzz you can’t tell me the name of the APR BMA property where an individual can just sign in and hunt without it reservation?
North side of the river...figure it out. No I'm not posting it on this site. I don't need to be picking up beer cans, whiskey bottles, and little Debbie wrappers when I hunt there next.
so as a BHA rep you refuse to help tax paying sportsmen access federal public land?
Wow you really are a lying ka hunt
thanks buzz for showing your true colors. Not surprised you helped Ted Turner fence off elk deer and antelope herds from public land in Montana when you worked for him
I will admit I have no experience with north side APR properties but all of the property south of the river (410/700) are type 2 and can’t be accessed by the general public by showing up and filling out BMA slip and then hunting.
You see...you need a writing utensil, and fill out this permission slip...name, address, license plate number.
John, it's about like the HMA program. The type 1 BM, is sign in...essentially like our unlimited permission slips for an HMA. Type 2 is like the HMAs that are on a draw, or first come first serve.
These idiots haven't hunted AP...obviously. of course they all probably will now that I got the crayons out to explain it
Mouth breathers...
So there is a type 1 which simply requires sign in and a type 2 that is draw or first come first serve.
What's is the breakdown on the AP between type 1 and type 2?
On the type 2 who determines the draw and first come?
The animals you and your family have taken on the AP were from which type of block managment?
Burns. On their type 2 first come first serve you call a call center which hosted by the APR or sub contractor of theirs not FWP like most of the other type properties. So the call center based out of California decides who is first come and grants access. When we have called they say they have no available opening to access the property inquired. Never once has there been an opening meaning somebody else came first. But yet there is nobody at parking areas indicating someone using the property. And I am not saying this based on a few calls. Daily calls for years and out daily checking cows and first hand eye witness of property usage.
Burns if you subscribe to OnX maps for Montana you can check their type by searching landowner American prairie reserve and then checking each BMA property. When the new BMA book comes out for 2023 I would be happy to mail one to you and you can see the breakdown for yourself. I can only speak of their land south of the river and it’s all type 2 in our area. 100% type 2 as of 2022 BMA regulations.
Burns. On their type 2 first come first serve you call a call center which hosted by the APR or sub contractor of theirs not FWP like most of the other type properties. So the call center based out of California decides who is first come and grants access. When we have called they say they have no available opening to access the property inquired. Never once has there been an opening meaning somebody else came first. But yet there is nobody at parking areas indicating someone using the property. And I am not saying this based on a few calls. Daily calls for years and out daily checking cows and first hand eye witness of property usage.
I had the same experience trying to sharpttail hunt on their lands last fall
Its a scam and only insiders and their friends get access like Buzz and tax payers like you and I are paying for this and get screwed
They recently purchased the 73 ranch land along the mussleshell between 410 and 700. Now 73 ranch when owned privately was not open to the public either it also Didn’t pretend to allow access to the general public like the APR does. Imagine the opposition they would face if they came out as stopping public access for hunting. So instead they enrolled in a way they control and limit access yet appear to be supportive to the BMA program and general hunting public.
I do not post this out of jealousy either. I am so fortunate to have access to some of the best private land in the area we are describing. Access is not my problem. it’s them misleading the general public about their support of hunting. I will only get a few tags in my lifetime No Matter what land we own or have access too.
Sorry my writing skills and paragraph skills suck on a smartphone. I hope most get the gist of what I am trying to say and are not focusing on how it looks once I hit post.
They recently purchased the 73 ranch land along the mussleshell between 410 and 700. Now 73 ranch when owned privately was not open to the public either it also Didn’t pretend to allow access to the general public like the APR does. Imagine the opposition they would face if they came out as stopping public access for hunting. So instead they enrolled in a way they control and limit access yet appear to be supportive to the BMA program and general hunting public.
I wish he would have just gave me the BMA number of the one he claims is just sign and hunt so we could easily verify. I just don’t know north side good enough to call bullshit. But my hunch is all their properties are managed the same.
They recently purchased the 73 ranch land along the mussleshell between 410 and 700. Now 73 ranch when owned privately was not open to the public either it also Didn’t pretend to allow access to the general public like the APR does. Imagine the opposition they would face if they came out as stopping public access for hunting. So instead they enrolled in a way they control and limit access yet appear to be supportive to the BMA program and general hunting public.
AP sure made a big deal of tearing down the 73's No Trespassing signs and I assumed from the Instagram it was now all open to the public.
A lack of transparancy in how access to the public is granted would seem problematic for someone like BHA and Buzzy who advocate for public access.
I am sure it's just a small oversite and Buzzy will be along shortly to explain in depth how the public can access the AP.
Help us out here Buzzy?
Your reluctance to come clean is looking like AP is more of a subsidized land grab for the enjoyment of a few and nothing like real public access hunting ground.
Burns. Yes they are very sharp at marketing. I followed the 73 ranch campaign as well and it is very misleading to Someone who spends nearly the entire season around some of their properties including the 73 ranch
The 73 ranch land in question is a type 2 BMA by reservation only. I just confirmed it will be in 2023 as it was in 2022 unless they change it before the regulations are in print. We will see, but I have a hunch
The 73 ranch land in question is a type 2 BMA by reservation only. I just confirmed it will be in 2023 as it was in 2022 unless they change it before the regulations are in print. We will see, but I have a hunch
They recently purchased the 73 ranch land along the mussleshell between 410 and 700. Now 73 ranch when owned privately was not open to the public either it also Didn’t pretend to allow access to the general public like the APR does. Imagine the opposition they would face if they came out as stopping public access for hunting. So instead they enrolled in a way they control and limit access yet appear to be supportive to the BMA program and general hunting public.
AP sure made a big deal of tearing down the 73's No Trespassing signs and I assumed from the Instagram it was now all open to the public.
A lack of transparancy in how access to the public is granted would seem problematic for someone like BHA and Buzzy who advocate for public access.
I am sure it's just a small oversite and Buzzy will be along shortly to explain in depth how the public can access the AP.
Help us out here Buzzy?
Your reluctance to come clean is looking like AP is more of a subsidized land grab for the enjoyment of a few and nothing like real public access hunting ground.
Sorry I'm not able to hold your hand on everything...was on the phone with a couple guys from Wyoming about today's GF commission meeting.
Pay attention, some are type 1, meaning you sign in with a permission slip, just like I have done dozens of times.
Type 2, you make reservations, its really, really simple to do.
It's open to the public, meaning you John, and everyone else. No different, just like I said with the HMA program in Wyoming. Some HMA's limit the number of hunters, some allow unlimited permission, some are first come first serve.
Pretty much the same in Montana...savvy?
It isn't hard, its no wonder people can't kill elk...they can't read and figure out how to fill out a permission slip...idiots.
Burns. On their type 2 first come first serve you call a call center which hosted by the APR or sub contractor of theirs not FWP like most of the other type properties.
So the call center based out of California decides who is first come and grants access.
When we have called they say they have no available opening to access the property inquired. Never once has there been an opening meaning somebody else came first.
But yet there is nobody at parking areas indicating someone using the property. And I am not saying this based on a few calls. Daily calls for years and out daily checking cows and first hand eye witness of property usage.
Posted because I'm interested in permissions please mr buzz. thanks.
Does he get preference for Montana tags as well ? The perks of a public servant
\
Yes, I'm a Non Resident Native...your clown car Republican party lets me buy OTC elk and Deer tags at half price. Bringer of the bill was an R and passed by an R legislature...really smart.
I'm buying another one here shortly.
At least they got smart and charge at least 50%...
Here's an $80 NR elk I shot:
And another, got in the way while I was whitetail hunting:
They recently purchased the 73 ranch land along the mussleshell between 410 and 700. Now 73 ranch when owned privately was not open to the public either it also Didn’t pretend to allow access to the general public like the APR does. Imagine the opposition they would face if they came out as stopping public access for hunting. So instead they enrolled in a way they control and limit access yet appear to be supportive to the BMA program and general hunting public.
BHA will get you access. lol
what a grift BHA is running
Hey Ribka, tell us all how many rooms in your double wide you could tile with your unused elk tags.
Sorry Buzz. I don’t have a problem killing elk or deer like you want to portray. My freezers are full and the walls are too. . I didn’t figure you would actually address this accurately. Fact is it’s not easy to get a reservation. Some might find it feeing impossible. I see you haven’t denied what I have said to be false. So it’s March now. I shouldn’t have a problem getting a reservation for the two crow or former 73 ranch properties this upcoming fall? I will call diligently and fill everyone in on the response. Proof will be in the pudding.
Pay attention, some are type 1, meaning you sign in with a permission slip, just like I have done dozens of times.
Type 2, you make reservations, its really, really simple to do.
It's open to the public, meaning you John, and everyone else. No different, just like I said with the HMA program in Wyoming. Some HMA's limit the number of hunters, some allow unlimited permission, some are first come first serve.
Pretty much the same in Montana...savvy?
It isn't hard, its no wonder people can't kill elk...they can't read and figure out how to fill out a permission slip...idiots.
Thanks Buzzy.
Always remember when dealing with me to break it down Barney style like you're dealing with a slow 5 year old.
I can say the Wyoming HMA program is much more transparent.
Can you break down how many of the animals you posted in this thread were taken on the Type 1 block management vs the Type 2?
Where can a hunter see the EXACT selection process for the Type 2 access which seems to be the vast majority of AP block management?
Sorry to be so pedantic but it does give you a chance to explain the wonders of AP to the masses.
Come home to hunt isn’t a bad program in general. Glad you think it’s so foolish yet aren’t afraid to exploit it every year. Glad you have two sets of rules and beliefs for yourself. Tell a lot about a guy. Maybe we can catch up in person this fall and discuss this with some real and local folks
Sorry Buzz. I don’t have a problem killing elk or deer like you want to portray. My freezers are full and the walls are too. . I didn’t figure you would actually address this accurately. Fact is it’s not easy to get a reservation. Some might find it feeing impossible. I see you haven’t denied what I have said to be false. So it’s March now. I shouldn’t have a problem getting a reservation for the two crow or former 73 ranch properties this upcoming fall? I will call diligently and fill everyone in on the response. Proof will be in the pudding.
Believe what you want...my family, friends, and I have zero problems filling out a permission slip. All it takes is a pen and 2 firing brain cells.
I'm assuming you have a pen, so that sort of narrows down the problem.
Come to hunt isn’t a bad program in general. Glad you think it’s so foolish yet aren’t afraid to exploit it every year. Glad you have two sets of rules and beliefs for yourself. Tell a lot about a guy. Maybe we can catch up in person this fall and discuss this with some real and local folks
Its a [bleep] program and I testified in Helena against it. Probably the only NR to do so.
My thought is, your legislature is dumb enough to pass it, well, they must want me to prove to them how ridiculous it is.
Elk aren't my thing...all they do is wreck a good day of deer hunting. Same bull, who cares? But for $80 worth sacrificing a day of deer hunting I guess.
Sorry Buzz. I don’t have a problem killing elk or deer like you want to portray. My freezers are full and the walls are too. . I didn’t figure you would actually address this accurately. Fact is it’s not easy to get a reservation. Some might find it feeing impossible. I see you haven’t denied what I have said to be false. So it’s March now. I shouldn’t have a problem getting a reservation for the two crow or former 73 ranch properties this upcoming fall? I will call diligently and fill everyone in on the response. Proof will be in the pudding.
Believe what you want...my family, friends, and I have zero problems filling out a permission slip. All it takes is a pen and 2 firing brain cells.
I'm assuming you have a pen, so that sort of narrows down the problem.
You are such a condescending prick. I am fully aware how to fill out a permission slip, and use a phone to call for a reservation. They even provide the slips and pens in the box for me. Mind blowing I know. I live and hunt in these areas and you are basically a liar for your portrayal. Hope you mislead somebody on this thread but it’s not me or any other Montana hunter that has tried to hunt APR properties south of the river.
Sorry Buzz. I don’t have a problem killing elk or deer like you want to portray. My freezers are full and the walls are too. . I didn’t figure you would actually address this accurately. Fact is it’s not easy to get a reservation. Some might find it feeing impossible. I see you haven’t denied what I have said to be false. So it’s March now. I shouldn’t have a problem getting a reservation for the two crow or former 73 ranch properties this upcoming fall? I will call diligently and fill everyone in on the response. Proof will be in the pudding.
Believe what you want...my family, friends, and I have zero problems filling out a permission slip. All it takes is a pen and 2 firing brain cells.
I'm assuming you have a pen, so that sort of narrows down the problem.
You are such a condescending prick. I am fully aware how to fill out a permission slip, and use a phone to call for a reservation. They even provide the slips and pens in the box for me. Mind blowing I know. I live and hunt in these areas and you are basically a liar for your portrayal. Hope you mislead somebody on this thread but it’s not me or any other Montana hunter that has tried to hunt APR properties south of the river.
Maybe try hunting North of the River...and find a clue.
In fairness, if I were AP, I wouldn't grant you a permission slip based on your attitude alone. Sadly, they even let guys like you access their property and access public land through them.
They recently purchased the 73 ranch land along the mussleshell between 410 and 700. Now 73 ranch when owned privately was not open to the public either it also Didn’t pretend to allow access to the general public like the APR does. Imagine the opposition they would face if they came out as stopping public access for hunting. So instead they enrolled in a way they control and limit access yet appear to be supportive to the BMA program and general hunting public.
BHA will get you access. lol
what a grift BHA is running
Hey Ribka, tell us all how many rooms in your double wide you could tile with your unused elk tags.
Buzz once again you showed what an anti public hunting moron you are
That's a decent 5 point that will score 260 inches tops and Buzzy is hardly acting like it's record book. Just a solid 3 year old meat bull.
If you are envious of that picture you have not killed many bulls.
But you knew that.
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by shootAI
Sorry Buzz. I don’t have a problem killing elk or deer like you want to portray. My freezers are full and the walls are too. . I didn’t figure you would actually address this accurately. Fact is it’s not easy to get a reservation. Some might find it feeing impossible. I see you haven’t denied what I have said to be false. So it’s March now. I shouldn’t have a problem getting a reservation for the two crow or former 73 ranch properties this upcoming fall? I will call diligently and fill everyone in on the response. Proof will be in the pudding.
Believe what you want...my family, friends, and I have zero problems filling out a permission slip. All it takes is a pen and 2 firing brain cells.
I'm assuming you have a pen, so that sort of narrows down the problem.
When you find time I am still interested in the breakdown of the animals you posted in this thread and the type of block mgt 1 or 2.
According to the link you posted there seems to be little type 1 access on the AP.
That's a decent 5 point that will score 260 inches tops and Buzzy is hardly acting like it's record book. Just a solid 3 year old meat bull.
If you are envious of that picture you have not killed many bulls.
But you knew that.
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by shootAI
Sorry Buzz. I don’t have a problem killing elk or deer like you want to portray. My freezers are full and the walls are too. . I didn’t figure you would actually address this accurately. Fact is it’s not easy to get a reservation. Some might find it feeing impossible. I see you haven’t denied what I have said to be false. So it’s March now. I shouldn’t have a problem getting a reservation for the two crow or former 73 ranch properties this upcoming fall? I will call diligently and fill everyone in on the response. Proof will be in the pudding.
Believe what you want...my family, friends, and I have zero problems filling out a permission slip. All it takes is a pen and 2 firing brain cells.
I'm assuming you have a pen, so that sort of narrows down the problem.
When you find time I am still interested in the breakdown of the animals you posted in this thread and the type of block mgt 1 or 2.
According to the link you posted there seems to be little type 1 access on the AP.
Thanks Buddy.
All type 1, except the bull my Dad shot. He called and got a permission slip no problem.
Elk aren't my thing...all they do is wreck a good day of deer hunting. Same bull, who cares? But for $80 worth sacrificing a day of deer hunting I guess.
Buzzy did you shoot those elk on closed forest service roads again?
Can the public access closed forest service roads?
Sorry Buzz. I don’t have a problem killing elk or deer like you want to portray. My freezers are full and the walls are too. . I didn’t figure you would actually address this accurately. Fact is it’s not easy to get a reservation. Some might find it feeing impossible. I see you haven’t denied what I have said to be false. So it’s March now. I shouldn’t have a problem getting a reservation for the two crow or former 73 ranch properties this upcoming fall? I will call diligently and fill everyone in on the response. Proof will be in the pudding.
Believe what you want...my family, friends, and I have zero problems filling out a permission slip. All it takes is a pen and 2 firing brain cells.
I'm assuming you have a pen, so that sort of narrows down the problem.
You are such a condescending prick. I am fully aware how to fill out a permission slip, and use a phone to call for a reservation. They even provide the slips and pens in the box for me. Mind blowing I know. I live and hunt in these areas and you are basically a liar for your portrayal. Hope you mislead somebody on this thread but it’s not me or any other Montana hunter that has tried to hunt APR properties south of the river.
Maybe try hunting North of the River...and find a clue.
In fairness, if I were AP, I wouldn't grant you a permission slip based on your attitude alone. Sadly, they even let guys like you access their property and access public land through them.
Just so everyone understands on here again:
as a BHA rep you are against the public accessing public hunting land?
Facts aren’t something he likes talking about John. Yet I a have a bad attitude and shouldn’t be allowed to hunt based on my attitude. Yet I have actual property enrolled in a type 1 BMA and host junior hunts for kids on our property thorough out the state. But he wants me to be bad because I oppose his great APR
Sorry Buzz. I don’t have a problem killing elk or deer like you want to portray. My freezers are full and the walls are too. . I didn’t figure you would actually address this accurately. Fact is it’s not easy to get a reservation. Some might find it feeing impossible. I see you haven’t denied what I have said to be false. So it’s March now. I shouldn’t have a problem getting a reservation for the two crow or former 73 ranch properties this upcoming fall? I will call diligently and fill everyone in on the response. Proof will be in the pudding.
Believe what you want...my family, friends, and I have zero problems filling out a permission slip. All it takes is a pen and 2 firing brain cells.
I'm assuming you have a pen, so that sort of narrows down the problem.
You are such a condescending prick. I am fully aware how to fill out a permission slip, and use a phone to call for a reservation. They even provide the slips and pens in the box for me. Mind blowing I know. I live and hunt in these areas and you are basically a liar for your portrayal. Hope you mislead somebody on this thread but it’s not me or any other Montana hunter that has tried to hunt APR properties south of the river.
Maybe try hunting North of the River...and find a clue.
In fairness, if I were AP, I wouldn't grant you a permission slip based on your attitude alone. Sadly, they even let guys like you access their property and access public land through them.
Just so everyone understands on here again:
as a BHA rep you are against the public accessing public hunting land?
Your childish posts sure seem to indicate so
when did you last kill an elk? Count backward from all the unused tags tiling the floors of the double wide if you can't remember.
I shot 3 last year, helped 8 others kill elk too. Elk aren't even what I like hunting the most. It's just so easy and so many of them these days.
Do you bow hunt? How many elk have you killed with a bow outside of Wyoming not shooting from a truck window on closed forest service roads the public cant access?
Do you think bow hunting is easy buzzy ?
Can you even hike more than a 1/2 mile. From your pics it doesn't look like it lol
Show the biggest fish you caught on a fly rod? lol
Why won't you share public access if you are a bHA rep Nancy boy?
Do you bow hunt? How many elk have you killed with a bow outside of Wyoming not shooting from a truck window on closed forest service the public cant access?
Do you think bow hunting is easy buzzy ?
Can you even hike more than a 1/2 mile. From your pics it doesn't look like it lol
Show the biggest fish you caught on a fly rod? lol
Why won't you share public access if you are a bHA rep Nancy boy?
My best with a bow, a raghorn on public land.
Another look:
Biggest fish on a flyrod? Don't fly fish much these days...but when I do, I don't mess around:
Mostly fished gear in Idaho...didn't mess around either, 41 inches:
Another $80 elk and a wrecked day of very good deer hunting...however, one of the best eating elk I've ever killed. November spike and no reason to make an excuse for shooting it.
It worked out right fair, the next day I shot this buck, the 22nd 4x4 or better buck I'd seen that day by noon, on public of course.
Another $80 elk and a wrecked day of very good deer hunting...however, one of the best eating elk I've ever killed. November spike and no reason to make an excuse for shooting it.
It worked out right fair, the next day I shot this buck, the 22nd 4x4 or better buck I'd seen that day by noon, on public of course.
Do you bow hunt? How many elk have you killed with a bow outside of Wyoming not shooting from a truck window on closed forest service roads the public cant access?
Do you think bow hunting is easy buzzy ?
Can you even hike more than a 1/2 mile. From your pics it doesn't look like it lol
Show the biggest fish you caught on a fly rod? lol
Why won't you share public access if you are a bHA rep Nancy boy?
Pure BS.
Remember when you posted last fall you and your girlfriend needed to get on keto because you were to old and fat to hunt elk?
Burns he seems to respond well to you. Maybe you can get us back on topic and possibly expose some truth on the matter. I think you might have an idea of the truth based on your posts that hint to such.
Burns he seems to respond well to you. Maybe you can get us back on topic and possibly expose some truth on the matter. I think you might have an idea of the truth based on your posts that hint to such.
Lots of good things in this thread.
Buzz has his point of view and is skilled at getting things done.
Some things I agree with and many I don't but do not underestimate the skill and knowledge that he and others bring to the fight.
Those trying to out hunt him for validation are going to lose every single time. Every Single Time.
Get involved in and understand the politics and managment of your state because Buzz sure enough is very involved.
For shooters and hunters in MT retiring Tester from the Senate in 2024 is a decent place to focus your energy along with sending Biden home.
North side of the river...figure it out. No I'm not posting it on this site. I don't need to be picking up beer cans, whiskey bottles, and little Debbie wrappers when I hunt there next.
Another direct question avoided.
At this point a highly placed political operative who avoids answering questions says one thing.
Regular Joes with boots on the ground report quite different experiences.
Burns. On their type 2 first come first serve you call a call center which hosted by the APR or sub contractor of theirs not FWP like most of the other type properties. So the call center based out of California decides who is first come and grants access. When we have called they say they have no available opening to access the property inquired. Never once has there been an opening meaning somebody else came first. But yet there is nobody at parking areas indicating someone using the property. And I am not saying this based on a few calls. Daily calls for years and out daily checking cows and first hand eye witness of property usage.
Burns. On their type 2 first come first serve you call a call center which hosted by the APR or sub contractor of theirs not FWP like most of the other type properties. So the call center based out of California decides who is first come and grants access. When we have called they say they have no available opening to access the property inquired. Never once has there been an opening meaning somebody else came first. But yet there is nobody at parking areas indicating someone using the property. And I am not saying this based on a few calls. Daily calls for years and out daily checking cows and first hand eye witness of property usage.
All of this is starting to come into focus now.
So it's actually an $80 elk tag, plus a $3000 yearly donation to get on the "list". No wonder its a top priority to donate again this year.
Burns. On their type 2 first come first serve you call a call center which hosted by the APR or sub contractor of theirs not FWP like most of the other type properties. So the call center based out of California decides who is first come and grants access. When we have called they say they have no available opening to access the property inquired. Never once has there been an opening meaning somebody else came first. But yet there is nobody at parking areas indicating someone using the property. And I am not saying this based on a few calls. Daily calls for years and out daily checking cows and first hand eye witness of property usage.
All of this is starting to come into focus now.
So it's actually an $80 elk tag, plus a $3000 yearly donation to get on the "list". No wonder its a top priority to donate again this year.
There's more to it than that. Think about the anti-gun connection.
That one had me scratching my head too. The government subsidizes all kinds of stuff that we all take for granted. Like the home building industry and home buyers, as well as agriculture.
I have zero problem with either of those, and I get zero direct benefit from either. But the thing is, those subsidies are basically good for everyone, and good for the economy as a whole. Our agricultural production capacity is one of our strengths.
Raising buffalo on reservations isn't in the same realm.
Not in the same scale, but certainly in the same realm. Tell me how local businesses, economies, etc. are not going to benefit when tribes have bison herds. Tourism, hunting, sale of meat, etc. etc. from having bison.
Nice red herring buzz, but you proved my point. They are not in the same realm.
Home mortgage deductions and federal ag subsidies benefit all kinds of producers and consumers, all across the country, in every state, without regard to race, creed, or color.
This grant benefits a small amount of people, based on their race. Explain how that's fair. What about the Chinese farmers who want to raise Bok choy, or the white boys who want to raise bison?
White boys that raise bison get theirs...study up.
Study up my ass. Show me where $25 M was set aside for white boys.
Smokepole- good luck. He will answer it like when I asked which APR property is open to hunting without reservation. “ I am not going to tell you…. Figure it out.” He has no interest in proving his statements just providing question for some following on our questions validity. [bleep] should be in politics.
I compare the AP and BHA organizations to a State political party <NRA too> soliciting my financial donations for the good of all, where the donated monies go to benefit a select group.
Seems like the AP call for permission is constructed as a filter for the preferred group.
I compare the AP and BHA organizations to a State political party <NRA too> soliciting my financial donations for the good of all, where the donated monies go to benefit a select group.
Seems like the AP call for permission is constructed as a filter for the preferred group.
Well, they maintain quite the database of names and profiles.
The reason you have to call them is so that they can check the database and see if you ever said anything nasty about the APR.
That applies to hunting, leasing and subleasing grass from them.
If you ever publicly disagreed with them or their policies.....you dont get access.
Burns he seems to respond well to you. Maybe you can get us back on topic and possibly expose some truth on the matter. I think you might have an idea of the truth based on your posts that hint to such.
Lots of good things in this thread.
Buzz has his point of view and is skilled at getting things done.
Some things I agree with and many I don't but do not underestimate the skill and knowledge that he and others bring to the fight.
Those trying to out hunt him for validation are going to lose every single time. Every Single Time.
Get involved in and understand the politics and managment of your state because Buzz sure enough is very involved.
For shooters and hunters in MT retiring Tester from the Senate in 2024 is a decent place to focus your energy along with sending Biden home.
Totally agree John. Major changes are needed and MT appears to be headed in the right direction. Guess we will see come 2024. Tester is a No brainer. Even us poor, no hunting, dummies as Buzz likes to call us, know that. I might have a mansion, B&C trophies galore and be genius but because I don’t post about it like Buzz. So he tries to negate the validity of our posts by painting a poor character picture to the people reading making our experiences less valid because he must be the ultimate authority.
My posts are directed at exposing the truth about the APR not anything else which is what this thread is about. That’s what I meant by maybe you can continue to help facilitate the conversation back to the APR. I am not an old, do nothing, computer poster bitching just to hear my own opinion. Lots of people read these threads and I want them to know what a person that lives around and with the APR on a regular basis has to say about the organization.
I compare the AP and BHA organizations to a State political party <NRA too> soliciting my financial donations for the good of all, where the donated monies go to benefit a select group.
Seems like the AP call for permission is constructed as a filter for the preferred group.
Well, they maintain quite the database of names and profiles.
The reason you have to call them is so that they can check the database and see if you ever said anything nasty about the APR.
That applies to hunting, leasing and subleasing grass from them.
If you ever publicly disagreed with them or their policies.....you dont get access.
Don’t know if that’s true or where your response originates from Jim, but if true that may connect a lot of dots.
I compare the AP and BHA organizations to a State political party <NRA too> soliciting my financial donations for the good of all, where the donated monies go to benefit a select group.
Seems like the AP call for permission is constructed as a filter for the preferred group.
Well, they maintain quite the database of names and profiles.
The reason you have to call them is so that they can check the database and see if you ever said anything nasty about the APR.
That applies to hunting, leasing and subleasing grass from them.
If you ever publicly disagreed with them or their policies.....you dont get access.
Don’t know if that’s true or where your response originates from Jim, but if true that may connect a lot of dots.
We were told that several times in conjunction with some friends of mine leasing grass. She was nice about it.
If you have ever had a Save the Cowboy sign up or said nasty things publicly, dont even bother applying for access or leases.
Burns. On their type 2 first come first serve you call a call center which hosted by the APR or sub contractor of theirs not FWP like most of the other type properties. So the call center based out of California decides who is first come and grants access. When we have called they say they have no available opening to access the property inquired. Never once has there been an opening meaning somebody else came first. But yet there is nobody at parking areas indicating someone using the property. And I am not saying this based on a few calls. Daily calls for years and out daily checking cows and first hand eye witness of property usage.
All of this is starting to come into focus now.
Buzz was correct, this HAS been a valuable discussion, in excess of 36,000+ views now and counting……
I compare the AP and BHA organizations to a State political party <NRA too> soliciting my financial donations for the good of all, where the donated monies go to benefit a select group.
Seems like the AP call for permission is constructed as a filter for the preferred group.
Well, they maintain quite the database of names and profiles.
The reason you have to call them is so that they can check the database and see if you ever said anything nasty about the APR.
That applies to hunting, leasing and subleasing grass from them.
If you ever publicly disagreed with them or their policies.....you dont get access.
That one had me scratching my head too. The government subsidizes all kinds of stuff that we all take for granted. Like the home building industry and home buyers, as well as agriculture.
I have zero problem with either of those, and I get zero direct benefit from either. But the thing is, those subsidies are basically good for everyone, and good for the economy as a whole. Our agricultural production capacity is one of our strengths.
Raising buffalo on reservations isn't in the same realm.
Not in the same scale, but certainly in the same realm. Tell me how local businesses, economies, etc. are not going to benefit when tribes have bison herds. Tourism, hunting, sale of meat, etc. etc. from having bison.
Nice red herring buzz, but you proved my point. They are not in the same realm.
Home mortgage deductions and federal ag subsidies benefit all kinds of producers and consumers, all across the country, in every state, without regard to race, creed, or color.
This grant benefits a small amount of people, based on their race. Explain how that's fair. What about the Chinese farmers who want to raise Bok choy, or the white boys who want to raise bison?
White boys that raise bison get theirs...study up.
Study up my ass. Show me where $25 M was set aside for white boys.
Its almost as though we don't live in the information age...FFS.
So the matter is settled. Those who actually have experience with the animals have clarified that bison are just meaner and slower growing cows.
And, as it has been determined that Buzz is raising money for the enemies of everything most of us stand for, just one question remains: Have we successfully halted Buzz's (effective) proselytizing and fundraising on this site?
So the matter is settled. Those who actually have experience with the animals have clarified that bison are just meaner and slower growing cows.
And, as it has been determined that Buzz is raising money for the enemies of everything most of us stand for, just one question remains: Have we successfully halted Buzz's (effective) proselytizing and fundraising on this site?
I think you did that to yourself...fundraising for you is finding change in the ashtray of the 78 pinto on blocks in front of the single wide.
Losttrail/Caldumb please post a single pic of anything you have ever killed? I disagree with Buzz on damned near everything he stands for but at least he has the balls to back up his hunting success with photographic evidence.
I compare the AP and BHA organizations to a State political party <NRA too> soliciting my financial donations for the good of all, where the donated monies go to benefit a select group.
Seems like the AP call for permission is constructed as a filter for the preferred group.
Well, they maintain quite the database of names and profiles.
The reason you have to call them is so that they can check the database and see if you ever said anything nasty about the APR.
That applies to hunting, leasing and subleasing grass from them.
If you ever publicly disagreed with them or their policies.....you dont get access.
LOL tin foil much? All you have to do is sign up.
Yeah, no kidding...they have "data bases" at the sign in boxes in the middle of their property to keep Conrad out.
Why do we continue to placate a conquered people? I do not condone what happened to the Native Americans as we as whites broke almost every treaty ever signed but enough is enough.
We give them everything for free. What has that done to a once proud people? Highest drug use, suicide rate, alcoholism, etc. When is do the handouts stop?
I compare the AP and BHA organizations to a State political party <NRA too> soliciting my financial donations for the good of all, where the donated monies go to benefit a select group.
Seems like the AP call for permission is constructed as a filter for the preferred group.
Well, they maintain quite the database of names and profiles.
The reason you have to call them is so that they can check the database and see if you ever said anything nasty about the APR.
That applies to hunting, leasing and subleasing grass from them.
If you ever publicly disagreed with them or their policies.....you dont get access.
LOL tin foil much? All you have to do is sign up.
Yeah, no kidding...they have "data bases" at the sign in boxes in the middle of their property to keep Conrad out.
More old news? "Is American Prairie Reserve Taking The West Back To The Future? WITH A GRAND VISION FOR REWILDING NATIVE SPECIES IN EASTERN MONTANA, APR IS SPURRING A HUGE DEBATE OVER BISON, PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS, FEDERALISM AND THE SURVIVAL OF RURAL COMMUNITIES"
More old news from Jan 2023: "A-team ready to take on American Prairie Reserve"
Quote
The Lewistown News Argus recently published a front page article on the meeting hosted by the Save the Cowboy group that provided area residents with an update on the efforts that are underway to derail the American Prairie Reserve’s bison restoration plan for northcentral Montana.
What is significant about that meeting is that it represented a coming together of all the key players that are committed to stopping American Prairie Reserve’s plan to stuff an unwanted wildlife park the size of Connecticut in our backyard. Participants at the meeting shared their actions to date in this matter that ranged from the submission of substantive public comments about American Prairie Reserve’s agenda, to protests and legal strategies
That's funny, I don't care who you are. Meanwhile the tribes are end-running UPOM. Hilarious. AP is now grazing bison on huge swaths of BLM lands. Good thing Montana classified them as livestock! Smart thinking R's...throwing a tantrum to classify bison as livestock is paying dividends, hugely...for AP. Even more hilarious.
I'm guessing UPOM will get a spanking over their elk lawsuit as well. UPOM is a bigger threat to hunting than every anti-hunting group combined.
Buzz, you can read, right? Which one of those was set aside for white people only?
That's the question. Let me save you some time though, the answer is zero. Because that would be what we call "illegal."
Change the narrative all you want...white boys get theirs, period end of story.
If your feelings are hurt over the 25 million, then do something about it or quit whining.
If you think its illegal, go hire an attorney and make your case.
You're as full of sh*t as a Christmas turkey, and you're the one who changed the narrative. Here's my original question, the one that you never even attempted to answer. All you did was post links to funding sources that are available to EVERYONE including Indians, which you know full well was not the question:
Originally Posted by smokepole
This grant benefits a small amount of people, based on their race. Explain how that's fair.
And you continue to mis-represent what I've said. I never said the grant to tribes was illegal, I said it would have been illegal if it had been a grant to white people only.
You know it's a shame buzz, I support a lot of the same conservation initiatives you do, including the stated purpose of BHA, which it stuck to in the early years as a grass-roots organization. But when you publicly spout the bullsh*t you're spouting here, you just turn people away.
“Montana Wildlife Federation appreciates that the court has recognized our standing as intervenors in this important case,” said Montana Wildlife Federation President and Board Chair Chris Servheen in a statement.
“This case is about the public’s role in the management of elk and other wildlife in Montana. Elk are a public resource and should be managed using science in a fair and balanced public process.”
Buzz, you can read, right? Which one of those was set aside for white people only?
That's the question. Let me save you some time though, the answer is zero. Because that would be what we call "illegal."
Change the narrative all you want...white boys get theirs, period end of story.
If your feelings are hurt over the 25 million, then do something about it or quit whining.
If you think its illegal, go hire an attorney and make your case.
You're as full of sh*t as a Christmas turkey, and you're the one who changed the narrative. Here's my original question, the one that you never even attempted to answer. All you did was post links to funding sources that are available to EVERYONE including Indians, which you know full well was not the question:
Originally Posted by smokepole
This grant benefits a small amount of people, based on their race. Explain how that's fair.
And you continue to mis-represent what I've said. I never said the grant to tribes was illegal, I said it would have been illegal if it had been a grant to white people only.
You know it's a shame buzz, I support a lot of the same conservation initiatives you do, including the stated purpose of BHA, which it stuck to in the early years as a grass-roots organization. But when you publicly spout the bullsh*t you're spouting here, you just turn people away.
Nice job.
File a suit and make your case, you said its illegal. Its how things get done, whining changes nothing. You're rhetoric makes no sense, if its illegal, its illegal.
“Montana Wildlife Federation appreciates that the court has recognized our standing as intervenors in this important case,” said Montana Wildlife Federation President and Board Chair Chris Servheen in a statement.
“This case is about the public’s role in the management of elk and other wildlife in Montana. Elk are a public resource and should be managed using science in a fair and balanced public process.”
I bold text in quote. fair and balanced. Ok.
Right, not controlled by UPOM...they're going to learn the hard way in court.
File a suit and make your case, you said its illegal. Its how things get done, whining changes nothing.
Nice job.
LOL, I did not say it was illegal you f*cking idiot, maybe you need some remedial reading classes.
Make your case, Justice is Blind, remember?
Pard for those that don't know the term "Justice is blind" is a common phrase that is often used to describe the concept of impartiality in the legal system. The phrase suggests that justice should be administered without regard to a person's status, wealth, or other factors that could bias the outcome of a legal proceeding.
The blindfolded Lady Justice statue is often used as a symbol of the idea that justice is blind, with the blindfold representing the impartiality of the legal system. This concept is important because it ensures that everyone is treated equally under the law, regardless of their social status or background.
The idea of justice being blind has its roots in ancient philosophy, where it was believed that justice should be administered fairly and impartially. This principle is still upheld in modern legal systems, with judges and other legal officials expected to remain neutral and objective in their decisions.
However, the reality is that the legal system is not always perfect, and bias and discrimination can still occur. Efforts are being made to address these issues and to ensure that the principle of blind justice is upheld in all legal proceedings, but there is still much work to be done to achieve true impartiality and equality in the legal system.
Can you dummies read...I guess not, and even in crayon it doesn't help.
So, I typed slower...and even put in bold so you can follow along. Type 2 BMA's someone other than the hunter issues the permission slip.
It can be an FWP staff person, it can be the landowner...its not hard, it's very simple.
TYPE II BMA — Area where someone other than the hunter issues permission. This includes BMAs where the landowner or an FWP staff member issues permission. Type II BMAs often require reservations and utilize pasture assignments, hunter number limits, and other hunter management systems.
Block Management cooperators have the ability to provide preference to veterans on Veteran's Day for those BMAs requiring reservations (mostly Type II). Some of the cooperators who may be providing this preference have been listed in each regional section in the BMA Access Guide.
Funny the guys whining the most about the AP are either non residents or transplants.
Callnum, for those that don't know.. The American Prairie Reserve is a large conservation project that seeks to create a wildlife reserve in Montana. It aims to restore and protect the natural habitat of a wide range of species, including bison, pronghorns, and elk. As with any conservation project, the American Prairie Reserve has its supporters and critics.
The statement you have provided suggests that there are some individuals who are critical of the American Prairie Reserve, and that these individuals tend to be non-residents or transplants to the area. It is possible that these individuals feel that the project will have a negative impact on the local economy or on their way of life. Alternatively, they may simply disagree with the goals or methods of the conservation project.
It is worth noting, however, that criticism of the American Prairie Reserve is not limited to non-residents or transplants. There are likely many individuals who live in the area and who have concerns about the project for a variety of reasons.
Overall, the American Prairie Reserve is a complex and controversial issue, and it is important to consider multiple perspectives when evaluating the potential impact of the project.
Can you dummies read...I guess not, and even in crayon it doesn't help.
So, I typed slower...and even put in bold so you can follow along. Type 2 BMA's someone other than the hunter issues the permission slip.
It can be an FWP staff person, it can be the landowner...its not hard, it's very simple.
TYPE II BMA — Area where someone other than the hunter issues permission. This includes BMAs where the landowner or an FWP staff member issues permission. Type II BMAs often require reservations and utilize pasture assignments, hunter number limits, and other hunter management systems.
Block Management cooperators have the ability to provide preference to veterans on Veteran's Day for those BMAs requiring reservations (mostly Type II). Some of the cooperators who may be providing this preference have been listed in each regional section in the BMA Access Guide.
Pard, For those that don't know... BMA stands for Block Management Area, which is a program implemented by the Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks (FWP) department to provide public hunting access to private lands. The program allows hunters to access private lands that are enrolled in the program and have been designated as BMAs.
The statement you provided refers to a situation where permission to access a BMA is issued by either the landowner or an FWP staff member. This is a common practice within the BMA program, as access to private lands is granted at the discretion of the landowner.
If a landowner has enrolled their property in the BMA program, they may issue permission for hunters to access their land during specific hunting seasons. This allows hunters to access private lands that they would not otherwise be able to hunt on.
In some cases, FWP staff members may also issue permission for hunters to access a BMA. This may occur if the landowner is unavailable or if the FWP staff member is responsible for managing access to the BMA.
Overall, the BMA program is an important tool for providing public hunting access to private lands, and the ability to issue permission for access is an important aspect of the program. It allows landowners to maintain control over their property while also providing opportunities for hunters to access private lands and potentially harvest game.
Can you dummies read...I guess not, and even in crayon it doesn't help.
So, I typed slower...and even put in bold so you can follow along. Type 2 BMA's someone other than the hunter issues the permission slip.
It can be an FWP staff person, it can be the landowner...its not hard, it's very simple.
TYPE II BMA — Area where someone other than the hunter issues permission. This includes BMAs where the landowner or an FWP staff member issues permission. Type II BMAs often require reservations and utilize pasture assignments, hunter number limits, and other hunter management systems.
Block Management cooperators have the ability to provide preference to veterans on Veteran's Day for those BMAs requiring reservations (mostly Type II). Some of the cooperators who may be providing this preference have been listed in each regional section in the BMA Access Guide.
Pard, For those that don't know... BMA stands for Block Management Area, which is a program implemented by the Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks (FWP) department to provide public hunting access to private lands. The program allows hunters to access private lands that are enrolled in the program and have been designated as BMAs.
The statement you provided refers to a situation where permission to access a BMA is issued by either the landowner or an FWP staff member. This is a common practice within the BMA program, as access to private lands is granted at the discretion of the landowner.
If a landowner has enrolled their property in the BMA program, they may issue permission for hunters to access their land during specific hunting seasons. This allows hunters to access private lands that they would not otherwise be able to hunt on.
In some cases, FWP staff members may also issue permission for hunters to access a BMA. This may occur if the landowner is unavailable or if the FWP staff member is responsible for managing access to the BMA.
Overall, the BMA program is an important tool for providing public hunting access to private lands, and the ability to issue permission for access is an important aspect of the program. It allows landowners to maintain control over their property while also providing opportunities for hunters to access private lands and potentially harvest game.
Right, I've shot a metric chit-ton of game off BMA's...and in Wyoming HMA's.
Not to be confused with HAM, which is an Easter favorite.
I know 8 guys that hunt the AP type 2 every year with family. They sign up they hunt, no problems.
Been doing it for years.
Sure you do.
It’s real simple they say. But then again theses guys are serious hunters. Just sayin,,,,,,
Well...if they are serious types they wouldn't have anything to do with you.
When was the last elk you killed?
Callnum, you are resorting to the the Red herring affect. When people feel that they are losing an argument, they may resort to changing the subject as a tactic to avoid admitting defeat. This is often referred to as a "red herring" fallacy, where someone introduces an irrelevant or tangential topic in order to distract from the original argument. You did this by asking how many elk Jim Conrad has killed.
There are many reasons why someone might resort to this tactic. They may feel embarrassed or frustrated that they are losing the argument, and changing the subject allows them to avoid admitting defeat. Alternatively, they may be trying to deflect attention away from their own weaknesses or flaws in their argument. You did this because you realized your argument was or flawed.
Another reason why people may change the subject during an argument is that they may not have a strong argument to begin with. In these cases, changing the subject allows them to shift the focus away from their own lack of evidence or logic.
It is important to note, however, that not all changes in topic during an argument are intentional or malicious. Sometimes, discussions naturally evolve and shift from one topic to another, and this is not necessarily a sign of a failed argument. The key is to recognize when a change in topic is being used as a deliberate tactic to avoid admitting defeat in an argument.
Can you dummies read...I guess not, and even in crayon it doesn't help.
So, I typed slower...and even put in bold so you can follow along. Type 2 BMA's someone other than the hunter issues the permission slip.
It can be an FWP staff person, it can be the landowner...its not hard, it's very simple.
TYPE II BMA — Area where someone other than the hunter issues permission. This includes BMAs where the landowner or an FWP staff member issues permission. Type II BMAs often require reservations and utilize pasture assignments, hunter number limits, and other hunter management systems.
Block Management cooperators have the ability to provide preference to veterans on Veteran's Day for those BMAs requiring reservations (mostly Type II). Some of the cooperators who may be providing this preference have been listed in each regional section in the BMA Access Guide.
Pard, For those that don't know... BMA stands for Block Management Area, which is a program implemented by the Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks (FWP) department to provide public hunting access to private lands. The program allows hunters to access private lands that are enrolled in the program and have been designated as BMAs.
The statement you provided refers to a situation where permission to access a BMA is issued by either the landowner or an FWP staff member. This is a common practice within the BMA program, as access to private lands is granted at the discretion of the landowner.
If a landowner has enrolled their property in the BMA program, they may issue permission for hunters to access their land during specific hunting seasons. This allows hunters to access private lands that they would not otherwise be able to hunt on.
In some cases, FWP staff members may also issue permission for hunters to access a BMA. This may occur if the landowner is unavailable or if the FWP staff member is responsible for managing access to the BMA.
Overall, the BMA program is an important tool for providing public hunting access to private lands, and the ability to issue permission for access is an important aspect of the program. It allows landowners to maintain control over their property while also providing opportunities for hunters to access private lands and potentially harvest game.
Right, I've shot a metric chit-ton of game off BMA's...and in Wyoming HMA's.
Not to be confused with HAM, which is an Easter favorite.
Ah the good old HMA's. For those that don't know.... HMA stands for "Herd Management Area," which is a designation used by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and the United States Forest Service (USFS) to describe areas of public land where wild horses and burros are managed.
Wyoming has a number of HMAs scattered throughout the state, many of which are managed by the BLM. These areas are typically designated based on the availability of suitable forage and water for wild horses and burros. The BLM is responsible for managing the population of wild horses and burros within these areas, which includes monitoring population numbers and implementing strategies to maintain healthy herd sizes.
The BLM uses a variety of management techniques within HMAs, including fertility control, roundups and removals, and adoptions. These strategies are designed to balance the needs of the wild horse and burro populations with the needs of other wildlife and the environment.
Wyoming's HMAs are an important part of the state's public lands and provide habitat for a range of wildlife, including wild horses and burros. The management of these areas is a complex and often controversial issue, and the BLM works closely with local stakeholders to develop management plans that balance the needs of all parties involved.
Can you dummies read...I guess not, and even in crayon it doesn't help.
So, I typed slower...and even put in bold so you can follow along. Type 2 BMA's someone other than the hunter issues the permission slip.
It can be an FWP staff person, it can be the landowner...its not hard, it's very simple.
TYPE II BMA — Area where someone other than the hunter issues permission. This includes BMAs where the landowner or an FWP staff member issues permission. Type II BMAs often require reservations and utilize pasture assignments, hunter number limits, and other hunter management systems.
Block Management cooperators have the ability to provide preference to veterans on Veteran's Day for those BMAs requiring reservations (mostly Type II). Some of the cooperators who may be providing this preference have been listed in each regional section in the BMA Access Guide.
Pard, For those that don't know... BMA stands for Block Management Area, which is a program implemented by the Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks (FWP) department to provide public hunting access to private lands. The program allows hunters to access private lands that are enrolled in the program and have been designated as BMAs.
The statement you provided refers to a situation where permission to access a BMA is issued by either the landowner or an FWP staff member. This is a common practice within the BMA program, as access to private lands is granted at the discretion of the landowner.
If a landowner has enrolled their property in the BMA program, they may issue permission for hunters to access their land during specific hunting seasons. This allows hunters to access private lands that they would not otherwise be able to hunt on.
In some cases, FWP staff members may also issue permission for hunters to access a BMA. This may occur if the landowner is unavailable or if the FWP staff member is responsible for managing access to the BMA.
Overall, the BMA program is an important tool for providing public hunting access to private lands, and the ability to issue permission for access is an important aspect of the program. It allows landowners to maintain control over their property while also providing opportunities for hunters to access private lands and potentially harvest game.
Right, I've shot a metric chit-ton of game off BMA's...and in Wyoming HMA's.
Not to be confused with HAM, which is an Easter favorite.
Ah the good old HMA's. For those that don't know.... HMA stands for "Herd Management Area," which is a designation used by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and the United States Forest Service (USFS) to describe areas of public land where wild horses and burros are managed.
Wyoming has a number of HMAs scattered throughout the state, many of which are managed by the BLM. These areas are typically designated based on the availability of suitable forage and water for wild horses and burros. The BLM is responsible for managing the population of wild horses and burros within these areas, which includes monitoring population numbers and implementing strategies to maintain healthy herd sizes.
The BLM uses a variety of management techniques within HMAs, including fertility control, roundups and removals, and adoptions. These strategies are designed to balance the needs of the wild horse and burro populations with the needs of other wildlife and the environment.
Wyoming's HMAs are an important part of the state's public lands and provide habitat for a range of wildlife, including wild horses and burros. The management of these areas is a complex and often controversial issue, and the BLM works closely with local stakeholders to develop management plans that balance the needs of all parties involved.
Can you dummies read...I guess not, and even in crayon it doesn't help.
So, I typed slower...and even put in bold so you can follow along. Type 2 BMA's someone other than the hunter issues the permission slip.
It can be an FWP staff person, it can be the landowner...its not hard, it's very simple.
TYPE II BMA — Area where someone other than the hunter issues permission. This includes BMAs where the landowner or an FWP staff member issues permission. Type II BMAs often require reservations and utilize pasture assignments, hunter number limits, and other hunter management systems.
Block Management cooperators have the ability to provide preference to veterans on Veteran's Day for those BMAs requiring reservations (mostly Type II). Some of the cooperators who may be providing this preference have been listed in each regional section in the BMA Access Guide.
Pard, For those that don't know... BMA stands for Block Management Area, which is a program implemented by the Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks (FWP) department to provide public hunting access to private lands. The program allows hunters to access private lands that are enrolled in the program and have been designated as BMAs.
The statement you provided refers to a situation where permission to access a BMA is issued by either the landowner or an FWP staff member. This is a common practice within the BMA program, as access to private lands is granted at the discretion of the landowner.
If a landowner has enrolled their property in the BMA program, they may issue permission for hunters to access their land during specific hunting seasons. This allows hunters to access private lands that they would not otherwise be able to hunt on.
In some cases, FWP staff members may also issue permission for hunters to access a BMA. This may occur if the landowner is unavailable or if the FWP staff member is responsible for managing access to the BMA.
Overall, the BMA program is an important tool for providing public hunting access to private lands, and the ability to issue permission for access is an important aspect of the program. It allows landowners to maintain control over their property while also providing opportunities for hunters to access private lands and potentially harvest game.
Right, I've shot a metric chit-ton of game off BMA's...and in Wyoming HMA's.
Not to be confused with HAM, which is an Easter favorite.
Ah the good old HMA's. For those that don't know.... HMA stands for "Herd Management Area," which is a designation used by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and the United States Forest Service (USFS) to describe areas of public land where wild horses and burros are managed.
Wyoming has a number of HMAs scattered throughout the state, many of which are managed by the BLM. These areas are typically designated based on the availability of suitable forage and water for wild horses and burros. The BLM is responsible for managing the population of wild horses and burros within these areas, which includes monitoring population numbers and implementing strategies to maintain healthy herd sizes.
The BLM uses a variety of management techniques within HMAs, including fertility control, roundups and removals, and adoptions. These strategies are designed to balance the needs of the wild horse and burro populations with the needs of other wildlife and the environment.
Wyoming's HMAs are an important part of the state's public lands and provide habitat for a range of wildlife, including wild horses and burros. The management of these areas is a complex and often controversial issue, and the BLM works closely with local stakeholders to develop management plans that balance the needs of all parties involved.
Pretty close...
If you are referring to an assessment of an HMA (Herd Management Area) for wild horses or burros, it's possible that the assessment was found to be accurate or closely aligned with the actual conditions on the ground.
Assessments of HMAs are conducted regularly by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) to monitor the condition of the rangelands and the health and population of the wild horses or burros living in the area. These assessments help inform the BLM's management decisions, such as determining whether to gather or remove animals from the HMA, implementing fertility control measures, or adjusting grazing allotments for livestock.
If an assessment is found to be "pretty close" to the actual conditions, it may indicate that the BLM's management strategies are effective or that the HMA is currently in a relatively stable condition. However, it's important to note that the assessment process can be complex and controversial, and different stakeholders may have different opinions on the accuracy or usefulness of the assessment.
Funny that the word public is used. Is APR limited to Montana residents?
Yes.
Not just that, only former Montana Residents living in Wyoming may hunt AP property.
It's a strange rule, but I'm good with it.
Pard, I'm sorry, but that statement is not accurate. Access to American Prairie (AP) property for hunting is determined by the specific rules and regulations set by the property owner or manager, as well as any state and federal laws that apply. These rules can vary depending on the location and type of property, as well as the species being hunted.
While residency requirements may be a factor in determining who can hunt on certain properties, it is not the only determining factor. Additionally, it's important to note that hunting on private or public lands without proper permission or permits can result in serious legal consequences.
If you are interested in hunting on AP property, it is best to research and contact the property owner or manager for information on their specific rules and regulations. It's important to always hunt legally and responsibly, respecting both the land and the wildlife that inhabit it.
The dynamic duo is surely changing hearts and minds with narcissism and snarky comments.
Fedfudd and lostclown.
Pard, you are better than this... But that statement seems to be sarcastic and critical of the individuals being referred to as the "dynamic duo". Using sarcasm and making snarky comments can sometimes be perceived as negative or dismissive, and may not be the most effective way to communicate or engage in meaningful dialogue.
If you have concerns or disagreements with the actions or behavior of these individuals, it may be more productive to express your opinions and ideas in a respectful and constructive manner. Open and respectful communication can be a powerful tool for promoting understanding and creating positive change
The dynamic duo is surely changing hearts and minds with narcissism and snarky comments.
Fedfudd and lostclown.
Come on kitten, you know there was no intent to change anyone's mind.
The crampfire minds are shallow, and frozen.
Pard, always remember it's important to recognize that people may engage in conversations or debates for different reasons, and changing someone's mind is not always the primary goal. Some individuals may engage in discussions simply to share their perspective or express their opinions, while others may engage in discussions to learn from others or gain a better understanding of different viewpoints.
That being said, it's also possible for individuals to engage in discussions with the goal of changing someone's mind. However, it's important to approach these conversations with respect and empathy, and to recognize that people may have deeply held beliefs and perspectives that are difficult to change. Instead of trying to force someone to change their mind, it can be more productive to listen actively, ask questions, and try to find common ground.
The dynamic duo is surely changing hearts and minds with narcissism and snarky comments.
Fedfudd and lostclown.
The crampfire minds are shallow, and frozen.
Pard, this statement, as it seems to be an opinion or expression that lacks context. It's important to remember that people have different experiences, backgrounds, and perspectives, and it's not fair or accurate to make sweeping generalizations about any group of people. It's important to approach discussions and debates with an open mind, and to listen to and consider different viewpoints before drawing conclusions.
The dynamic duo is surely changing hearts and minds with narcissism and snarky comments.
Fedfudd and lostclown.
The crampfire minds are shallow, and frozen.
Pard, this statement, as it seems to be an opinion or expression that lacks context. It's important to remember that people have different experiences, backgrounds, and perspectives, and it's not fair or accurate to make sweeping generalizations about any group of people. It's important to approach discussions and debates with an open mind, and to listen to and consider different viewpoints before drawing conclusions.
The dynamic duo is surely changing hearts and minds with narcissism and snarky comments.
Fedfudd and lostclown.
The crampfire minds are shallow, and frozen.
Pard, this statement, as it seems to be an opinion or expression that lacks context. It's important to remember that people have different experiences, backgrounds, and perspectives, and it's not fair or accurate to make sweeping generalizations about any group of people. It's important to approach discussions and debates with an open mind, and to listen to and consider different viewpoints before drawing conclusions.
Hilarious.
Pard, It's not uncommon for people to find serious comments or opinions humorous, especially in social situations where there may be a lighthearted or playful atmosphere. It's possible that my tone or in this case my delivery of my comments could be coming across in a way that is unintentionally humorous to you and others.
It's also possible that you may find my serious comments humorous because they are unexpected or divergent from the current conversation or mood. In some cases, people like you may use humor as a coping mechanism or defense mechanism to diffuse tense or uncomfortable situations.
I'm somewhat lacking in knowledge on buffalo and Indians restoration of them. Many tribes? Which ones? How many buffalo involved with each? How much acreage involved with each of those restorations? Free ranging? Documentation on how much buffalo eat compared to cattle? Documentation on reproductive rate comparisons.
Not saying your wrong or being a smart ass. I just don't know and your statements, if true, need documentation from reputable sources.
What I do know is that the myth about the Indians being great stewards of nature is just that-- a myth.
Ask the ranchers around ft belknap how well they maintain their herd lol.
For the non-resident interest in this thread <me>.
For Wyo antelope non-resident I did due diligence research for DIY hunting. OnX map software, research draw stats for units, learn about trespass fees, how important public vs private boundaries are, lodging, call WGF offices and ask questions. And apply for tag.
I did same for Montana. Doing this due diligence is intended to minimize surprises.
An option for example is to pay ~$50k for a sheep on the AZ Hualapai rez that is pretty much a guaranteed success. Easy way to buy a result in place of a DIY gamble. But it's called hunting, not shooting.
Assume I did a fair amount of diligence for Montana and felt confident that I could <not would> gain permission for a T2 BMA. I would have backups for T1 BMA if problems with T2 permissions. But.
Part of my non-resident research is hunting forums and the like. Here is this thread where Montana T2 BMA associated with APR is discussed. And permission access problems described. Also where an advocate for BHA <mr buzz> claims no problems with T2 BMA access, but Montana residents describe issues with access. And mr buzz stating he won't share a location to T1 APR access "north of the river" because he doesn't want to pick up beer cans, booze bottles.
My takeaway is that APR is not what they claim to be. Might say it's somewhat of a private hunt club, somewhat of an organization where monied people donate same to feel virtue for saving the bison, somewhat of an organization to reduce cattle ranching <the goal to convert people to eat plants>, somewhat of an organization to reduce or restrict hunting. Meanwhile, spokesmen who have a degree of prominence suggest APR is virtuous while enjoying hunting access for the time being. And supports their income stream for their organizations like BHA.
That is a snapshot of my interest in this thread.
I'll close with a base comment: Fugg Off losttail60.
The fact of the matter is the AP will continue to buy land from willing sellers. They will continue to allow public hunters and they will continue to run bison.
No amount of whining from the old hens on the fire is going to change that.
No amount of whining from the old hens on the fire is going to change that.
Fact.
Callnum, The phrase old hens appears to be used as derogatory language and could be interpreted as disrespectful or dismissive towards individuals who may have differing opinions or perspectives. It is important to engage in constructive and respectful communication, even when there are disagreements. It's important to listen to and understand different viewpoints and to express one's own ideas and thoughts in a way that is considerate and respectful of others. Using derogatory language or dismissive statements can be harmful and can further polarize and divide individuals rather than fostering meaningful conversation and understanding.
The fact of the matter is the AP will continue to buy land from willing sellers. They will continue to allow public hunters and they will continue to run bison.
Callnum, This statement by you in regards to American Prairie buying land, public hunting, and bison management. It suggests that the organization will continue to engage in these practices regardless of any opposition or criticism. It is important to remember that individuals and organizations have a responsibility to act in a way that is ethical and sustainable, and to consider the impact of their actions on the environment and communities. It's also important to engage in constructive dialogue and collaboration with others to address concerns and find solutions that benefit all parties involved.
Pard, For those that don't know... BMA stands for Block Management Area, which is a program implemented by the Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks (FWP) department to provide public hunting access to private lands. The program allows hunters to access private lands that are enrolled in the program and have been designated as BMAs.
The statement you provided refers to a situation where permission to access a BMA is issued by either the landowner or an FWP staff member. This is a common practice within the BMA program, as access to private lands is granted at the discretion of the landowner.
If a landowner has enrolled their property in the BMA program, they may issue permission for hunters to access their land during specific hunting seasons. This allows hunters to access private lands that they would not otherwise be able to hunt on.
In some cases, FWP staff members may also issue permission for hunters to access a BMA. This may occur if the landowner is unavailable or if the FWP staff member is responsible for managing access to the BMA.
Overall, the BMA program is an important tool for providing public hunting access to private lands, and the ability to issue permission for access is an important aspect of the program. It allows landowners to maintain control over their property while also providing opportunities for hunters to access private lands and potentially harvest game.
^^^^^^^^^This dude is a font of knowledge on a host of subjects, it's uncanny.
The fact of the matter is the AP will continue to buy land from willing sellers. They will continue to allow public hunters and they will continue to run bison.
No amount of whining from the old hens on the fire is going to change that.
[quote=Backroads]Come on kitten, you know there was no intent to change anyone's mind.
The crampfire minds are shallow, and frozen.
I’m just some guy browsing through, didn’t know about AP or yourself. You have, at least, put a name and a face on BHA.
Since you appear to be so prominently involved in regional politics and Left-leaning causes in general it seems improbable that you are completely uninformed as to the nature and origins of AP’s donations. From this side of the aisle we sort of assume all you Leftist types are in cahoots.
For my own part I will freely admit to being a financial retard but for anyone interested here’s AP’s finances as of calendar year 2021: Cutting to the chase; net total assets $110+ million up $33+ million from 2020. I do understand much of this can result from land acquisitions, earned revenues etc etc but seems likely there has to be substantial cash inflow involved.
I got no yardstick at present to compare that net worth with other similar hunting and conservation-related non-profits. Grist for further googles I guess.
The fact of the matter is the AP will continue to buy land from willing sellers. They will continue to allow public hunters* and they will continue to run bison.
No amount of whining from the old hens on the fire is going to change that.
Ryan Busse: "The AR15 is mostly a symbol of political intimidation by the Right." Comment Buzz?
Care to comment on this:
May 3, 1994
To Members of the U.S. House of Representatives: We are writing to urge your support for a ban on the domestic manufacture of military-style assault weapons. This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety. Although assualt weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
Every major law enforcement organization in America and dozens of leading labor, medical, religious, civil rights and civic groups support such a ban. Most importantly, poll after poll shows that the American public overwhelmingly support a ban on assault weapons. A 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll found that 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of semi-automatic assault guns, such as the AK-47.
The 1989 import ban resulted in an impressive 40% drop in imported assault weapons traced to crime between 1989 and 1991, but the killing continues. Last year, a killer armed with two TEC9s killed eight people at a San Francisco law firm and wounded several others. During the past five years, more than 40 law enforcement officers have been killed or wounded in the line of duty by an assault weapon.
While we recognize that assault weapon legislation will not stop all assault weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals. We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons.
Sincerely,
Gerald R. Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
I'll comment. That was 30 years ago, and they were not friends of the second amendment.
Yet Reagan is a folk hero on the fire, even though he had a long history of being anti-hunting and anti-second amendment.
SMH...
On balance, Reagan was a damn good president. He had his warts though, as most politicians do.
If BHA is working with Democrats, they'd better watch their back...unless of course their real intentions are other than what they profess. If APs BOD is a bunch of Democrats, you can rest assured that your hunting access is in jeopardy. I believe you said earlier that they were playing the long game. Yes they are, and little do people realize they'll happily use pawns in their game.
BHA is a front for the anti hunting terrorist groups, Buzzy is the public relations man.
So the matter is settled. Those who actually have experience with the animals have clarified that bison are just meaner and slower growing cows.
And, as it has been determined that Buzz is raising money for the enemies of everything most of us stand for, just one question remains: Have we successfully halted Buzz's (effective) proselytizing and fundraising on this site?
I think you did that to yourself...fundraising for you is finding change in the ashtray of the 78 pinto on blocks in front of the single wide.
Must be completely out of ammunition,LOL. He resorts to completely false and inane insults! ROTFLMAO
After reading 20 pages here, at my settings, I am convinced of one thing.
To set the stage, Has anyone outside of Idaho heard about the Corporation set up- to build a nuke plant in Payette Co, just outside of Payette Id? They got a lease on some property. They set up a few outbuildings and gave the company a face. They even had a big sign where their driveway turned off of the gravel road. But mostly, they had a little cubicle of an office in Boise and a telephone number.
The corp started selling shares, $millions of shares. But no nuke permits were forthcoming, and anyone who knew the tiniest bit about the industry knew no permits would be forthcoming.
But there was a CEO, and a CFO, and a couple other corporate officers taking salaries which combined to make $million /year, for several years.
Eventually, the buildings came down, the sign at the gate was removed, the lawyers filed bankruptcy for the corp. And the shareholders never recovered a dime of their investment.
The Idaho Attorney General was investigating and intending to file fraud charges last I heard. But all culpable parties had left the state.
So anyway, I recognize a parable. The directors of this prairie acquisition company are raking in the dough. And as long as the rubes buy into this restoration bullschitt.....vs preservation, those directors will continue to rake in their fortunes.
APR is honestly at the brink of fiscal implosion. I went through their Forms 990 and their OPERATING revenues are zilch. They're not getting any traffic (heck, if I want to see bison, I'll go to look at the Blackfeet herd, nicer backdrop) and never will. Northeast/central Montana is an acquired taste. That's why they tried to get FWP and Gov Bullock to take the buffs off their hands for "free."
And these idiots are now wanting the CMR as their "core," supposedly 900,000 acres of habitat right? A full quarter-million acres of the CMR is water, Fort Peck Lake, and that's a long focking swim. A bunch more is breaks. Inaccessible breaks. Or, a few select coulees that lead to grass and water, that's where the bison will CONCENTRATE. So the 900,000 acres, supposedly a huge leap toward the majick 3 million, is an illusion.
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