The values exist outside of faith, and there's bucketloads of examples where faith has often contravinened them
I could not agree more!
They exist in reality but from what source?
The fact that you and I recognize the grave offense of people of faith (or not) having violated them shows they’re as real as laws of nature like gravity.
So where did they come from to carry such near-universal weight in the hearts and minds of men?
And for the record I have never and never will say that non-believers don’t observe these, and to suggest I did is to suggest you missed the whole basis of my argument.
There's no need to make the fact that these values are widely shared a matter of epistemological and/or metaphysical inquiry, if your goal is simply to pursue the values.
Again, why is it important to identify an objective source for these shared values?
Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
