Originally Posted by FreeMe
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by FreeMe
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by FreeMe
Ringman - ya think it's possible that you could be more careful about how you quote me?

And If you're accusing me of being brainwashed, I find that kind of funny. The way I see it, you literalists are brainwashed, and so are the atheists.

If you so want to take Genesis literally, how about this passage?

Gen. 4:10
"But the LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground!

You suppose that was audible? What exactly do you think that phrase means?

Or - how about this...

Psalm 19:1-2
"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they reveal knowledge. "

I have yet to hear a recording of "sky speech" - but atheists should pay closer attention to what the heavens have been telling us. BTW - what do you think we should do about this passage, in light of what the heavens have been teaching us about the age of the universe and its beginning?



In 1956 a couple guys received the Nobel prize for discovering the earth "groans". Let me see. Where did I read about that? O yea. It's in Romans. But to answer your foolish question..... You anthropomorphize God. You think the Creator of the universe is limited to the senses you experience?


If I am anthropomorphizing God, why is he telling Cane to listen?

And you didn't answer my question about Psalm 19:1-2. What do we do with that? The heavens have been revealing a tale of a definite beginning....billions of years ago (by our measure). To deny this suggests that Satan has unlimited power to overrule God's vast message. He is the great deceiver - but that's giving him too much credit, I think. To go that far, we'd have to allow that he has the power to corrupt the word and the laws of God.

At this point in my studies, I have to question which God is greater - the God who is the ultimate conjurer, or the God who is all-knowing, to and beyond the point that he can design a system that works in ways we are just beginning to understand through science - in some ways that by most expectations should be impossible. I suspect that these two versions of God are one and the same - but it is we who are seeing him differently. A God who can design the working biological cell is infinitely wise and powerful, in my current perception. But to one who remains ignorant or refuses to give credit to science, He would still look like the ultimate magician. I'm perfectly willing to accept that I may be wrong, but I find it really hard to believe that God would encourage us to learn about his creation, make it uncannily accommodating to discovery, and then expect us to disbelieve what we see.



First I should remind you not to add to God's Word. God does not tell Cain to "listen". God is telling Cain what He hears. Not what Cain hears.

There are numerous people who have come accepted the reality of God by considering the heavenly bodies. I remember one African chief who, while worshiping the sun god, decided..."I am boss here. The witch doctor is second in command. Someday my son will be chief. We are no longer going to worship the sun god or any other god. We are going to worship the Boss God." I was in my early teens when I met the missionary who told me about this. He was an older guy. After he told them about Jesus his tribe, en masse accepted Jesus as the Boss God.

Based on this first like I think you need to appeal to God for wisdom. You can't seem to understand a lot of God's Word. God is Infinite. That includes not only neutral to nice, but all that we can conceive. The billions who died in The Flood would certainly say God is harsh. God tells us in His Word when a calamity occurs in a city He did it. Satan, despite his fantastic power, is a created being and has to beg his position before the most high.


I didn't add anything. Oh - you're going to tell me that the only translation that is accurate is the KJV. Nice dodge from having to deal with the concept of literalism. Let's move on....

Your witch doctor studied the heavens enough to convince him of the truth. Good. We continue to study the heavens, and by my reckoning, they still point to a creator - only more forcefully. When the Big Bang theory was announced, atheists were loathe to accept it because it points to a beginning. But it was science that brought it to light. That's history now, and we have progressed beyond even that in knowledge that points to a creator. If that threatens your world view and you have no inclination to introspection and appeals for wisdom yourself (BTW - your assumption that I have not done so is a bad attempt at mind reading), you might consider at least choosing your words more carefully when discussing this with other Christians and atheists as well.


You added the word "listen". It's not there. The KJV has too many errors for me to use regularly. I don't understand your idea that I try to "dodge from having to deal with the concept of literalism." I accept God's Word as written. Some is historical. Some is poetry. Some has metaphors. The context helps those who are serious understand Him.

I see you didn't read the story correctly. It was the chief. Perhaps you do the same thing with God's Word. I am a presupposionalist. That means my world view starts with the idea God's Word is correct and anything that deviates is incorrect to one degree or another.

You are accepting the Big Bang as accepted science. Take a look at google and discover how many evolutionist do not accept it.

"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter