Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by FreeMe
Originally Posted by Ringman
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No, I did not add the word "listen". Several translations have done that for me. At your prompting, which I suppose is sure to come, I will have to do a study in the Hebrew text to see whether that is incorrect. Please forgive my tendency to not read you as well as I do God's word - my point about your story was not lost, and you know it.


I don't know what I don't know and you can't know what I do know without me stating it.


Well then.......it appears that I have overestimated your comprehension. It also appears your intention is to argue for the sake of arguing. Otherwise, I would think that you might be more curious about what that point was.


Please tell me the point.


I'll try to be more understandable....

You said
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There are numerous people who have come accepted the reality of God by considering the heavenly bodies. I remember one African chief who, while worshiping the sun god, decided..."I am boss here. The witch doctor is second in command. Someday my son will be chief. We are no longer going to worship the sun god or any other god. We are going to worship the Boss God." I was in my early teens when I met the missionary who told me about this. He was an older guy. After he told them about Jesus his tribe, en masse accepted Jesus as the Boss God.


Then I said
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Your witch doctor (correction - chief) studied the heavens enough to convince him of the truth. Good. We continue to study the heavens, and by my reckoning, they still point to a creator - only more forcefully. When the Big Bang theory was announced, atheists were loathe to accept it because it points to a beginning. But it was science that brought it to light. That's history now, and we have progressed beyond even that in knowledge that points to a creator. If that threatens your world view and you have no inclination to introspection and appeals for wisdom yourself (BTW - your assumption that I have not done so is a bad attempt at mind reading), you might consider at least choosing your words more carefully when discussing this with other Christians and atheists as well.


My point?

The Bible states that "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." Also, "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse."

I don't take these passages as just emotional homage. I take this more literally. Those same intelligent ancients that you referenced very likely had the means to figure out at least some of what we have learned recently - that the cosmos show evidence of a beginning of time and space. They might just as well have deduced intelligent design by studying nature. Just like your African chief (but probably with more advanced knowledge). There is no reason for us to stop doing the same, even though some people take limited knowledge and (often by choice) make erroneous inferences. As it stands today, the deeper our scientific understanding becomes, the more it points to a Creator - "so that men are without excuse". I have no doubt that the trend will continue.


Last edited by FreeMe; 09/22/18.

Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.