Who uses Berger bullets for elk? Results/experiences please.
...........Landkiller.....Realize that most if not all of the VLD detractors on any VLD thread such as this where this is debated, haven`t used them on elk or on any other game. To not use them is their choice and they are entitled to their anti VLD opinion.
As I�ve pointed out before, first-hand experience is not the only way of learning � if it was we would still be living in caves and communicating with grunts and other primitive pre-language sounds. Why is it that proponents of various products always drag out this red herring when trying to discount people with different views?
There are many accounts of Berger VLDs failing to perform in a manner I consider acceptable including some in this thread and claims by the manufacturer.
What you do, is take stock from those who have frequently used them on elk, such as John Burns and a few others. Their experiences using VLDs on elk is far more than most including me as well.
What? Pay attention to what others have said about their experiences with VLDs in lieu of first-hand experience? Kind negates the point of your first paragraph, doesn�t it?
I agree though, pay attention to the experience of others. In my case I pay particular attention when I read things from the manufacuter that suggests performance is not what I want and when proponents of the bullet confirm that type of performance � i.e. a wound channel of 13-15�, with high fragmentation. There is no doubt in my mind that that kind of performance works great when you stick one between the ribs or that such performance may cause problems when things don�t work out as planned. One thing I prepare for is a wounded animal heading away. If/when that happens I want a bullet that will penetrate deeply and I don�t trust Bergers to do the job. By contrast I�ve run North Fork and MRX end-to-end on muleys, dropping them in their tracks. A Berger could not have dropped them any faster unless they fell before the shot.
Of my 10 elk taken, the latest one was killed with a 30 cal 190 hunting VLD. Thought I`d give the VLD a try and keep an open mind. Well! It did not disappoint.
Fired from 328 yards at a 2830-40 MV, the 190 penetrated the right shoulder bone and continued on doing massive internal damage with bullet fragmentation found just below the hide on the other side. The bull staggered about 3 to maybe 4 yards and then collapsed.
I have to say that out of the ten, the VLD gave me the quickest kill.
The perverbial thinking of many `ol school hunters as was mentioned on this thread earlier, is that they can`t seem to get their heads out of the sand when it comes to the VLDS. They automatically associate "hunting" VLDs as "MATCH ONLY" paper punching bullets and should not be used on elk.
Use them if you want � they don�t meet my criteria and I�ve decided not to use them for good reasons. This �old school� guy prefers other modern bullets including North Fork, Barnes TTSX/MRX, AccuBond and so far they have worked just fine. Even the older Grand Slams performed very well, putting game on the ground quickly with 2 holes in almost every case.
Of the 10 elk I�ve taken since 2000, when I started keeping good records, 6 have gone straight down and two more went 5 yards or less. That leaves one that went 25 and one that went 40. It is possible 10 of 10 would have gone straight down with Bergers, but even Berger users don�t always claim straight-down results, so I doubt it.
Thanks, but I�ll stick with modern bullets that provide controlled but limited expansion, relatively high weight retention, penetrate deeply, provide good to excellent accuracy and work well under as wide a range of impact velocities as possible. The ones I use seem to be working just fine and I trust them to work in situations where my level of confidence in Bergers would be much lower.
Well I say to them. Look at the successful VLD results on elk by John Burns and by many others.
Do that, and then look at the reports of those that have been less than thrilled with VLD performance. Then make up your mind.
Imo, that alone trumps their old school way of thinking and their lack of experience.
To find out how they work just as with the rest of us VLD users have!! You just have to try them for yourself.
Back to the first-hand experience red herring, yet above you suggest listening to others. Do so and you will find many happy stories and plenty of those that are less so.
I consider VLDs may be one of the best available for long range shooting. Inside 600 yards, which is what I practice to, I find no need for them and have valid concerns about performance at short range (high velocity impact) where I expect more fragmentation. No doubt performance would be fine on a well-placed broadside, maybe not so much on angles where other bullets would work just fine.
