The failing of the church is selling conversions as a shield of God against worldly suffering, earthly rewards for faith.
Man had it wrong so Jesus came to set the correct example, he didn't come cause man was doing it right... and then man almost immediately started down the path of doing it wrong again.
Jesus came to show how unimportant worldly suffering, hardship, persecution, torture, physical death are, compared to faith and spiritual resurrection. What God can give us here is the will to endure and the strength of fearlessness, spiritual peace/relief regardless of pain/suffering/persecution.
Jesus' church is lead through the Holy Spirit, not a pulpit, not some man's words, not confined in a book.
God left man here on earth with free will, individual man and man as a whole, the chit that happens to us here isn't on God nor will he save you, it's on man and self inflicted.
I’m always glad when you participate in these discussions. Your insight and knowledge and contributions are refreshing.
The issue of pain and suffering and injustice in the world is a big problem…for many people, and understandably so…when it comes to maintaining faith in God. Many people have stepped back from God because of their inability to reconcile the pain and suffering and injustice in the world with a good and loving God. There's a lot of tension between God and pain, God and injustice, God and sorrow, and God and devastation in the world...and how we resolve those issues with a good and loving God. Interestingly enough, it's primarily a big deal with the people in the Western world and people in first world countries... Americans, Canadians, and Europeans. In other parts of the world, in the midst of extraordinary poverty and anguish, you'll also find extraordinary faith...'not' extraordinary doubt.
The 'logic' says if God is good, He would get rid of all pain, suffering, and injustice. If God could, He would get rid of all pain, suffering, and injustice. So either He lacks 'good', or He lacks 'could'...there is either a problem with His willingness or His ability...or...there is no God at all. That's what some people's logic tells them.
Is it right to use *other* people's pain and suffering and injustice to draw *our own* conclusions about God...? Is it right to use other people's pain and suffering and injustice to build *our own* case against God...?
To me, that’s casting a pretty wide net. If we have not walked in their shoes, then we don't know. We'd have to talk with each one of them, individually, about their pain and their suffering and their injustice to know how it affects their conclusion about God. For many, it might draw them closer to God, rather than push them away. If we use our own pain and suffering and injustice to draw our own conclusions about God...that's wholly different.
Here are messages I fully support.
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
