This thread has become classic, a wonderful example of someone asking a question, people with actual experience answering, and then people without experience acting like they know the answer and insisting on arguing about it.
Just because you really really like something and want/hope it will work doesn't mean it will. And that's okay.
It is funny. Seems like there is only one guy in the entire thread that has actually stuck a Berger in a Grizzly.
There is a little bit of difference between the velocity, and more importantly the performance, of a Berger bullet at the muzzle and one at 620 yard - and no animal ( except man) can be considered dangerous at that distance.
Phil,
I will have to disagree with you on that, the part about Berger VLD bullet performance. I base this on shoulder shooting way more than a few elk from under 100yds to over 1100yds. One of the major factors that drove me to use the VLD type bullet was the boringly consistent terminal results from close to far.
Elk skulls are similar in size to our largest Grizzlies and I have noggin shot elk from point blank to 800yds and again VLDs simply perform. If anything the VLD is slower to expand at close range (the core is still hard at close range).
I don't know your load but what do you figure the velocity of your bullet was when it struck the bear at that distance? I would guess it under 2000fps and about the same energy as a 30-30 ?
I was shooting a 7mm Rem Mag with a muzzle velocity of 2975fps with the 180gr VLD.
Conditions were 2500ft and 45 degrees temp so impact velocity was 2300 fps.
Do we really want to go down the road that rifles are more effective at 620yds than at the muzzle??
The other bear was at 175yds but the bullet was launched from a 7mm Rem Mag. 2975 fps at the muzzle. Impact was at 2768 fps into the shoulders and pretty similar to the OPs .308 Win load at contact distance. Sucked the life out of that bear so fast it was one of the few animals I have ever seen that literally died with it�s feet up in the air.
WOW,
Does that mean that all this heavy, bonded core, homogenous bullet hype is simply BS?
I image all the elephant cullers in Africa will be ordering them by the truck load.
Well that really is hyperbole. Nobody suggested shooting elephant with VLDs. The OP was asking about switching out his deer/elk load because he got a little worried about a 2yr old grizzly.
Seriously Phil he got worried about a 2yr old grizzly. 250 lbs tops????????????
You've gotta be kidding me. The Berger hype has officially went to a whole new level of ridiculousness when someone recommends them for elephants.
Yes we are really recommending VLDs for face shooting Rogue Bull Elephants. Run and tell your buddies. Quickly.Like as in right now. Lives are on the line.
Only PG can save the day cause the elephant are going to stomp all us VLD elk killin bums into a mud puddle.
Dude, A GRIP. Get one.
You've gotta be kidding me. The Berger hype has officially went to a whole new level of ridiculousness when someone recommends them for elephants.
All size critters, from all cartridges, at all distances. Hide, bone, organs - it doesn't matter.
Bergers are PFM in every situation.
You might actually do well to heed your own advise. Of course you could continue to guess at how the big boys play the game.
Pretty sure the bear charging stuff begun when the OP started the thread. Griz defense with Bergers. Ain't no griz defense going on at 620 yards, and no I didn't watch the video.
You have been wrong so many times on the 'Fire that this is about as sporty as screwing a retard.
Lil Scotty,
You were just the first guy to post in the thread with the video of the Grizzly kill, right??? Kinda like ol Slick Willie didn't really inhale. You always make me smile but I do worry about you fading away with this retirement thing. Not good for your health buddy. Find something useful to do and soon. HINT!!!
Ps. 60K posts on the Fire is not exactly what I am talking about.
....just make sure that gets video taped...............
As Timothy Treadwell became Timothy Tastewell, so will John Burns be know as John Burns On The Way In and the Way Out.
Well I was kinda thinking we could start a Campfire collection to buy Johnny B (Me don�t want that other JB getting my �Glory�) a Phil Brown Bear hunt. Johnny B gets one .264 Win Mag with a 140gr VLD and Phil agrees to film the disaster.
I figure Phil is going to need at a min 2X his going rate to tolerate the obvious (Me) and the going rate for Phil (by the hour)would make a bunch of high priced shyster lawyers question their billing. He is most likely worth it.
So Campfire buddies do you all want to see me get ate by the bear?? I sure would love to post a pict of 30 inches of bear noggin bone with a VLD hole though the middle. Might make me smile.
