Originally Posted by Coyote_Hunter


The Military still uses ft-lbs of energy to determine 'hazardous fragments':

https://www.wbdg.org/FFC/DOD/DODMAN/605509-M-V1.pdf
"V1.E8.2.2.4. A hazardous fragment is one having an impact energy of 58 ft-lbs [79
joules] or greater. "




No, the "military" does not use energy to determine effectiveness of small arms projectiles. The Army, or some parts, does have engineers that try to push "ft-lbs energy" because they can't wrap their minds around the realization that a mathematical equation can't solve everything. The army (and most of the military as a whole) are 30-40 years behind everyone else when it comes to knowledge of shooting, guns, and techniques.

USSOCOM, Navy Crane, the Marine Corps, the USAF, the FBI, and the rest of the DOJ all use damage based metrics, and ignore any discussion of "ft-lbs energy".






Originally Posted by Coyote_Hunter

I've never said nor believed that '"ft-lbs energy" tells you how a bullet will damage and destroy tissue'. Your statement is both wrong and demonstrates an ignorance of the facts regarding what I believe. Do you care to learn or are you going to be 'stupid'?

What I have consistently stated in many threads is that energy is a poor tool for doing that and is best used carefully in a limited set of circumstances. As I stated in a previous post in this thread, give me the same bullet with 2000 ft-lbs energy and the same bullet with 200 ft-lbs and I'll take the one with 2000 for elk and the one with 200 for rabbits. [Edited to add] Under those circumstances, I don't think a change in bullet weight or construction or velocity would change my preference.[End add]



To know what a bullet will do in tissue at a certain velocity (not energy), you have to shoot it in tissue (or proper tissue simulate). Once you do that, who cares what "energy" it has. Conversely even if you know how much energy it has, you still do not know what it will do in tissue.

When it comes to what that bullet will do to an animal, thinking about ft-lbs energy is just adding something for the sake of adding it.

What does it matter how many ft-lbs energy it has if it creates the wound that you want? If it doesn't create the wound that you want, than why does it matter what the energy is?


It almost sounds like you're trying to use ft-lbs energy instead of impact velocity to determine something. Does Northfork bullets state that you need a certain ft-lbs energy for bullet upset and expansion?