Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Tarquin
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Tarquin
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by antlers
Atheism is not simply disbelief in God. Atheism is most definitely a belief system, just as Christianity is a belief system. Atheism embraces its own tenets, just as Christianity embraces its own tenets.


If atheism is a religion, bald is a hair colour. An absence of conviction is certainly not a religion. We can lack conviction in any number of things, politics, ideologies, etc....Which doesn't make our lack of conviction a religion.

Your claim is patently absurd.

Are you religious because you are not convinced in the reality of Allah or Brahman?



If it is patently absurd, then you might consult the arguments of the eminent British philosopher John Gray. He makes the same point: atheism is essentially a faith-based metaphysical belief system. It's simply the negative side of the religion coin and it's not even particularly intellectually defensible. A more honest position (intellectually and factually) would be agnosticism. You're very bit as religiously dogmatic as Happy and Jag, you just can't admit it! laugh


If that is the case, John Gray hasn't got a clue, not about justification, evidence, logic or reason.

Think about it, for example, Muslims make claims about the existence of Allah, without evidence.....what reason do we have to believe in Allah? None. There is no reason to be convinced in the reality of Allah (the Muslim version of God).

If you do not accept the existence of Allah without evidence for His existence, how is that your faith or religion? You must be an extremely religious person given all the things you are not convinced of because they have no evidence. wink



This is hysterically funny! laugh John Gray---Oxford educated, published extensively, highly regarded, extreme critic of religion and other faith-based ideologies---but stupid. How do we know this? Because some anonymous, wholly uncredentialed poster (DBT) on some obscure gun forum says so! crazyThat's called argument by assertion and it's worthless. Read him and tell us, with logic and evidence, why he's wrong. Should be a piece of cake for you. He's only an Oxford Phd! laugh


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gray_(philosopher)


Argument from authority is a fallacy. I can quote any number of Academics who disagree with John Gray.

There are plenty of academic articles on justification of belief, Stanford, etc.

You need to widen your reading, not cherry pick philosophers you agree with.


I don't agree with John Gray, but he is an atheist who does not agree with you. You're correct: the fact that Gray is an Oxford Phd doesn't mean he's correct. On the other hand, it does point to the absurdity of some anonymous internet cowboy blithely dismissing him with the wave of a hand and the unsupported claim Gray doesn't know what he's talking about. Prove it!


Tarquin