Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by Hastings
Jesus is the one who said the law and the prophets would last as long as heaven and earth do, not me.
But Jesus did not say that. And you are twisting the words that He did say. If there ever was a verse that the Torahists hang their hats on, it’s Matthew 5:18. This verse clearly does not present a clear and unambiguous teaching that the Mosaic Law would last as long as heaven and earth do, as the Torahists claim.

Jesus is clearly teaching that there won’t be even the slightest change in the Law of Moses until some condition is met. Either until heaven and earth pass away, or until all in the Mosaic Law is accomplished, or both. Heaven and earth clearly have literally not passed away. But the Torahists themselves clearly do contortions to try and explain why they are no longer bound by hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of commands in the Mosaic Law, as we’ve seen done right here on this thread. So clearly things much more significant than an iota or a dot have already passed from the law. And clearly there have been many changes to the Mosaic Law that resulted from the redemptive work of Jesus Himself.

For example, the sacrifice of animals is required under the Mosaic law to atone for sin. But the New Testament teaches that Jesus was our sin offering “once and for all,” and therefore “there is no longer any offering for sin.” The Law of Moses required a regular offering for sin. The New Testament does not. That alone is a pretty significant change.

Another example, the Mosaic Law required a big curtain in the temple to separate the Most Holy Place from the Holy Place. The Torah describes it as “a veil of blue and purple and scarlet yarns and fine twined linen. It shall be made with cherubim skillfully worked into it.” But in the New Testament, at the very moment Jesus died on the cross, God Himself ripped that temple veil in two from top to bottom. That’s a pretty significant occurrence, and it’s a pretty significant change.

Another example, the Law of Moses required that all priests come from the tribe of Levi, yet under the New Covenant, Jesus is our High Priest, even though He is from the tribe of Judah. That’s also a pretty significant change.

And Jesus made it crystal clear that He came to fulfill all that was in the Law. And He fulfilled it. He made it crystal clear that He came to accomplish all that was in the Mosaic Law. And He accomplished it. And in doing so, He clearly brought the Law to its pre-planned and pre-designated retirement.
Antlers: You know how to read and you know heaven and earth have not passed. Jesus has not yet returned and therefore "till al be fulfilled" has not happened. Heaven and earth have not passed away.

Jesus would not have left his remarks about so important a subject open to speculation and interpretation.

And in verse 20 Jesus clearly stated " That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the the scribes and the Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven". And after that he goes into a long spiel about the law and makes it plain that the letter of law and more importantly the spirit of the law are to be followed.

I understand folks would like to throw out the most important sentence of the sermon on the mount but alas, it means what it says. There is no code language or ambiguity. This was not a parable with an intrinsic message such as The Prodigal Son where the son was mankind and the father was God and the message was that all God wishes for and requires is repentance (and reform) and return to him.


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
Hebrew Roots Judaizer