Sorry for any false assumptions. I wouldn't phrase the question as "apart" from scripture. What I would say is that scripture,and not only that contained in the Christian bible, has enabled me to see in such a way that I wouldn't look to scripture for all my answers as I once did. If we are truly right now "Seated in heavenly places in Christ",as the scriptures tell us,then why look for answers in what Christ told a follower 2000 years ago as the final authority?
If you also thoughtfully consider how much of our interpretation of foundational scripture is skewed by culture,and always has been with the English Catholic being among the first, it becomes evident that scripture has always been manipulated. Possibly that's why God has a better way. The whole purpose of Jesus was so you can be ONE with God. That's what Jesus preached and if you preach that today you get the same legalistic reaction about "What scriptures do you obey and which ones do you break?" It doesn't matter at all because in HIM,I have obeyed them all. In me I broke them all. It doesn't matter though if I am trusting in HIM rather than in me. If I am always looking for things to do better or constantly guilty for not being good enough,I am still looking at me and will never be full and fulfilled until I stop that and start just looking at perfection,and I mean me as perfect,cause you can't separate us,one from the other.
This is how we end up with ordained openly gay pastors.
I guess being gay is about the worst sin you can think of. Just goes to show where your mind is. What would you think about having a self righteous pastor? Would that ever occur to you as a sin? I sort of doubt it. How about the difference between a pastor who is attracted to men and admits it is a sin and trying to overcome it verses a pastor who gets drunk occasionally and slaps his wife around? Hey, how about one who weighs 350 and is eating his self to death without a clue? Which sin is the greatest?
All sin is the same in God's eyes, but teachers of the word are held to higher standards by God.
A non repentant gay, drunk, adulterer, child molester, whatever, in the pattern of sin is headed straight to hell and leading a congregation to hell. This is so sad and makes me freaking angry. Its no different than a pastor being married, having girlfriends, and bringing them to Church, and the leadership approving of it. There is a special place in hell. Sorry, I'm pissed.
I had a bit of the smart ass rise up in me during this thread.I should be more graceful.
When I told you originally to seek TRUTH, what I meant was that every situation would have to be looked at by the people who are involved in it. I can't see any pastor involved openly in sin as being effective as a pastor. What does that really mean though? Does it really mean that pastors are sinning but just pretty good at hiding it? Sure they do. Everybody sins,and everybody justifies their own sins and condemns the sins of others. It's just the way humans try to feel good about themselves. We see some sins as horrible,and some as acceptable,but that says more about society than about God.
Another good question is why do we want to see our pastors as sinless? Does that mean we are placing too much importance on the pastor as if we can only be lead by a sinless man? If that's the case then we are certainly looking for the pastor to fulfill the role of Jesus.
I don't know that I could ever have a gay pastor. I really doubt it. It might be better though to have an honest gay pastor who shows his faults and is as honest about them as he can be,than to have a pastor who is stealing from the church,cheating on his wife with the secretary,and getting drunk on communion wine,but is just really good at covering everything up.
