Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by efw
Originally Posted by antlers
There’s been a big migration away from from Christianity in this country...especially the organized/institutional aspect of it. And it’s not because they find atheism so appealing, it’s because they find Christianity so unappealing. And certainly much of it ‘is’ the church’s fault. The reason that many people have disengaged from it, as I see it, is not because of the message...it’s because of the messengers. At the end of the day, the reason that many find it so unappealing, and so unscientific, and so irrational...is because of the messengers. The general public that Jesus interacted with...who were nothing like Him, liked Him, and He liked them back. If Christianity isn’t compelling or attractive nowadays, is it possible that much of it is because we don’t practice the same ‘version’ of it nowadays that He practiced Himself...?
I think there is a tendency on our part to think there was at some point in history (whether that be US, World, or Church) a “golden age”. People mess stuff up and people have always been messing stuff up. If you read the NT you see this and if you read Church history it’s also apparent. There was never a time when people acted like Jesus. He was the only perfect Jew and the only perfect Christian. That’s why we are in such dire need of His death on the cross; because we’re flawed humans who by our nature screw stuff up. I’d be ecstatic if we could get to a point where the only thing that offends people is Christ and the necessity of His death, burial, and resurrection. That’s what I strive for when I discuss these things with people anyway... imperfectly...Soli Deo Gloria
That's my point. I run across very few people who actually have a problem with Jesus Himself; I run across very few people who actually have a problem with His teachings; and I actually run across very few people who have a problem with Jesus and the necessity of His death, burial, and resurrection.

Responding to the declaration in the OP, and with regard to the three posts above, what I have found in Scripture, does not privide a single reason why a Christian would be justified in seeing himself/herself as being better, more important, or more deserving of rank than any other human being. We all are sinners and, as someone recently posted, Christian people are saved by grace. With that gift of grace, Christians also are charged with expectations for the conduct of their lives. Through the range of Christian behavior, in keeping with imperfection, not all Christians will live up to the expectations - even when trying diligently. It is the nature of the being. As duly noted, some people who are not Christians seem to try every bit as strongly to behave according to very moral and righteous standards. All of us are imperfect.

To the posts by efw and antlers about the Christian example as lived, one observation from here is that Christians automatically open them selves to criticism and judgement by non-Christians (and, by Christians as well) when they declare their commitments to God - and yet concomitantly fall short of the mark - as all will. Enough of this failure, in the minds of others, usually results in judgements of "hypocrisy". Such an assessment, whether or not accurate/true, can place a serious mark on the persona of the Christian. For the non-Christian who is a true seeker of belief, faith and salvation, the sight/feeling of such a hypocritical mark can be a significant deterrent. For the Non-Christian who is simply on the negative bent - seeking to to deny, denigrate, undermine the concept of Christian belief, the opportunity to cite any "hypocrisy"is a big sword. Such is life. Grace is essential, behavior matters a lot.

In keeping with your observation about non-Christians not finding fault with Jesus, His teachings, and the reason for His death and resurrection - that finding seems to ring true in my experiences. However, I have seen no absence of complaint, attack, derision and scorn with regard to many structures organized under the general banner of Christianity. We know plenty of examples of bad motives, bad behavior and bad outcomes perpetrated by humans professing to act under the Christian umbrella. As humans, we tend to detest hypocrisy and fraud. When those charges are made against Christian types, Christians must expect some determination of failures with regard to the commanded and expected witness.

One final view. I do not necessarily agree with the comment that people have been moving away from Christianity in recent times. But, I do think many have been distancing themselves from the evolved positions of some "Christian" organizations and from what seem to be gross examples of hypocrisy. The charge for Christians has not changed - and, as it ever has been, the challenges require introspection, assessment, improvement and even housecleaning.


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