Originally Posted by IndyCA35
I have a hard time following much of this stuff. To be sure, I believe that God exists. If we made up God, then we have made up any moral rules, and there would be no absolutes, only whims. Society could not exist based on everyone’s whims.

But I have a hard time following the abstruse parts of some Christian philosophy. Here’s why.

If those who do not believe in Christ must serve infinite life sentences of cruel punishment, then (obviously) God wants us to believe in Christ.

But if God wants us to believe in Christ, then why hasn’t God told us anything or given us any unambiguous sign that would cause us to believe in Christ for 2000 years now? No sign. Nothing.

God is supposed to be all powerful. God could easily SAY SOMETHING that all could hear. But God does not. God is silent.

Now some say that we should believe in Christ on faith. But why say that? If someone who spent every day with Jesus for a couple of years, like the Apostle Thomas, could doubt the resurrection until shown proof, how can we be criticized if 2000 years later we doubt it, we who have never seen Jesus in the flesh? Let alone the billions of Moslems, Jews, Hindus, Budhists (spelling?), and atheists.

Doesn’t God want to help THEM to believe in Christ?

Is God deliberately withholding the proof that Jesus is the Christ, knowing that such an action would condemn billions to eternal punishment? Such a thing would be deliberate obstruction of justice.

Jesus was obviously a good and dedicated person. After he died, something happened that upset the prior beliefs of a heckuva lot of people. And a Jewish Roman citizen named Paul went around to the largest cities of the eastern Roman Empire and said something that caused thousands of sophisticated Romans to throw out the religion of their ancestors and take up that of Paul. That’s amazing.

But I think too many Christians get tangled up in their underwear when they try to split hairs. Worry about doing good, not about Hell.

God said nothing? For starters, Jesus rose from the dead to save us all. Then he appointed 12 apostles to organize the spreading of the word throughout the world. They, plus other converts, churned out a bunch of writings called Mathew, Mark, Luke, John, Act, and many others. These works have been preserved for nearly 2000 years and have been carried to every country in the world. Everything you need to know about the Lord in order to be saved is in there. EVERYTHING.

Then we have this:
Mat 12:38 Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, "Teacher, we want to see a miraculous sign from you."
39 He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.

The sign of Jonah was he descended into the sea and 3 days later was resurrected although he didn't die. Likewise, the son of man would descend into the earth, dead, and 3 days later rise again. Jesus did it and still the pharisees didn't believe him. That's all the sign anyone will get. God sent the biggest and brightest sign that's possible - resurrection from the dead.

We all discuss the finer points of Christianity but all that's necessary for salvation is found in this one single verse:
Ro 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.


All the other stuff we're discussing here is gravy like the nature of Christ, the fine points of scripture, how long hell lasts, etc. None of it is necessary for salvation. You only need to truly believe that Christ is God and that he rose from the dead.



“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell

It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.