Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by R_H_Clark
Originally Posted by OrangeOkie
Originally Posted by R_H_Clark
. . . We see here that Abraham wasn't blessed because of his action, as in action plus faith equals blessing. Abraham was blessed because of his faith,and his action was a sign and seal which showed his faith.

In other words Abraham was accounted righteous because of his faith,before his action which showed his faith.


So I believe I "hear" you saying that faith with out works (of obedience to God's commands) is dead?

Heb 11:8

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.


Yes,you could say that. James certainly did.

I prefer to say it a different way though because the statement that faith without works works is dead sometimes gives someone the idea that faith is not really faith until you add works to it. I don't like that idea because sometimes works take time. It's where people get the idea that a man could honestly and with all his heart seek salvation from Jesus yet fail to do the works,like baptism and not be saved. Maybe the man died before he could be baptized in water. It doesn't matter. I've dealt with those kinds of beliefs ever since I got saved.

I prefer to say it in this way:
A faith that is alive will surly produce works. Just like a healthy branch,connected to the vine,will produce fruit. A man that is saved should want to be water baptized, but I see that it is rather the baptism into Christ which saves. Yes, we must be baptized,which is just a word which means immersed,in Christ to be saved. The only way anyone is judged worthy is to become one with Christ. (to become baptized"immersed" into Christ.) 1 Cor.6:17 He that is joined to the Lord is one Spirit.


Perhaps you should look just a short ways up in that same chapter:

6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


A person who is born again is none of those things.His righteousness is of faith and not of works. If a Christian commits a sin,it doesn't make him a sinner,speaking of the Spirit. If that were the case,a Christian would need be saved again every time he sinned and he would constantly be in and out,in and out. In fact the qualification for righteousness is so high he could never stay in the position of salvation,if it was based on his actions. The only way he could be saved would be to die the very second after being born again,before he had time to commit another sin.

Righteousness only comes by oneness in the Spirit with Christ.It's not based on your deeds,but only on your faith in Jesus. Notwithstanding,a man with faith in Christ wants to curb his deeds to please God,but his salvation is not based on his performance in that area.

Think of it this way. Before a man received Christ, he did good deeds sometimes just based on being a decent human being. No matter how many good deeds he did ,without Christ none of those good deeds could bring salvation. So then why does he now think that with Christ a bad deed will effect his Spirit and bring damnation, even though a good deed couldn't effect his spirit, and bring salvation?