lying buzzy. and you're proud you worked for Turner? pos
what does Turner charge for elk hunts on. his ranch?
Turner's buffalo fences causing a stir at Robb Creek
By Perry Backus, of The Montana Standard.
ALDER -- No one will ever know for certain what killed the elk whose bones lay bleached on a ridge that separates a parcel of state land from the Robb Creek Wildlife Game Range.
But the sportsmen from Butte and Anaconda standing under a cloudless sky think they have a pretty good idea: They point to the twisted wire at both the top and bottom of the fence that cuts through the middle of the ridge. Their tapes measure the top wire at 60 inches. The bottom wire is less than a foot high.
"That's what killed it,'' said Jack Atcheson Sr. of Butte, nodding toward the fence. "It couldn't go over it or under it.''
On this day, the men say they counted 13 animal carcasses on the state lands' side of the fence within a mile of each other. The fact the elk and deer were just inches from property supported by sportsmen's dollars to provide winter feed makes their deaths even more unpalatable.
The fence was built to control bison from Ted Turner's Snowcrest Ranch in the Upper Ruby near Alder. It is part of miles of similar fence that surrounds the media mogul's massive ranch holdings in Montana.
Turner's general ranch manager, Russ Miller, says the fence is needed to keep bison from escaping.
"We have an obligation to control our live stock,'' says Miller. "Bison can jump. We've had numerous reports of them clearing six feet.''
Miller says the fence design is a product of "trial and error'' over a number of years that included consultation with both state and federal biologists in an effort to consider the needs of wildlife.
"We've always been as wildlife friendly as pos sible,'' he said. "We stand on our record on the different efforts we've made for wildlife ... there is no way we'd do anything that would harm wildlife intentionally.''
Turner isn't alone in building fences that might seem out of place in a state where the fourstrand barbed wire has become the standard. The Butte and Anaconda sportsmen worry about the potential for wildlife -- which is a public resource -- to become privatized if landowners built fences that trap animals on private lands.
"When there's no free movement of wildlife, what's in there becomes his,'' said Tony Schoonen of Ramsay. "It's no longer the public's.''
"We're not just talking about this one place,'' said Atcheson. "These kinds of fences have the potential to set a precedent that could apply to the whole state. If landowners can own the wildlife, their land is suddenly worth a whole lot more money.''
But for Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks' Fred King, whose job is to ensure that wildlife and sportsmen will be able to continue to use state-owned game ranges like Robb Creek, the task is more immediate.
The Robb Creek Game Range, which was acquired following a land exchange with Turner, has acres that border lands being grazed by Turner's bison. And as important as it is that wildlife can find its way onto the winter range, King also has to come up with a plan that will keep bison off of it.
"What we have here is a New Age landown er with a new grazing animal, the bison, that need a different kind of fence to make it stay put,'' said King. "The challenge we have is to find a fence that will both allow wildlife to move and keep the bison off the game range.''
"We are going to have to deal with this thing and we can't deal with it by simply saying no,'' he said.
Fences have a long and controversial history across the West. It wasn't many years after the first cattle arrived in the state to feed hun gry miners that fences began to appear. And laws soon followed about what could be fenced and how it could be done.
Sportsmen like Atcheson and Schoonen say the state isn't living up to its responsibilities in upholding those laws. The state, particularly the Montana Department of Natural Resources and Conservation, doesn't go far enough in considering the ramifications of "bison-proof'' fences, they say.
In particular, they point to Montana law which requires a fence to measure not less than 44 inches or more than 48 inches high and not less than 15 inches or more than 18 inches from the ground. They say that Turner and other bison ranchers' fences don't meet those requirements.
Dave Mousel, a DNRC land management supervisor, said that agency did an environmental analysis before giving Turner Enterprises the green light to build the fences on state lands.
"We do our best to try to balance the needs of the permittee and other resources,'' Mousel said.
The state required Turner to build gates that were intended to be open after each grazing season, he said. In other areas, the top wire was to be slackened to allow better opportunities for wildlife to jump the fences, said Mousel.
As far as the height standards stated in state law, Mousel said he understood those to be minimum requirements.
In the years that Turner has owned the Snowcrest Ranch, ranch manager Russ Miller said miles of old woven fence used to control sheep have been cleaned up. Those have been replaced by high-tensile smooth wire, which Miller says is more wildlife friendly.
"It's going to be sportsmen that will have to keep watch,'' said Atcheson, said looking back at the fence. "This is just ridiculous ... to have this kind of fence right up against a game range.'' W wildlifedesigner JoinedJul 1, 2001 Messages259 Reaction score0 Oct 2, 2001 #2
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by ribka
Ted Turner put in high fences on his ranch in Montana that prevented deer, moose and elk migration out into public land.
BobMT are you ok with this?
Originally Posted by irfubar
Originally Posted by Bob_mt
Originally Posted by irfubar
Hey Buzz, when you worked for Ted Turner did you lobby him to open his flyin D ranch for public hunting? and if not why?
why would he?....there are [bleep] of ranches that dont allow hunting....their land their rules....bob
Hey Bob, In his answer to my question, did you notice he didn't directly answer, but responded with , yea it was opened for hunting to the children... a blatant misrepresentation.... #1. he had nothing to do with it #2. It was open to everyone who drew a tag
He simply couldn't pass up an opportunity to virtue signal.... and that was the point I was trying to make... As for your assertion as to property owners rights, you are absolutely correct ..... us peasants don't have to like it though... P.S. if I owned it I would only let my friends hunt......
And that was resolved while I worked there, 25 years ago and they weren't high fences. Stop lying, they were maybe a foot higher than a normal 5 strand barb wire fence.
