Originally Posted by Birdwatcher
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I've seen you pull this schit time and again; trying to rewrite people's familial history of which you haven't a clue.

You want to see the proof? Hop on your wee bike and go find it. It's there, and in publicly accessible places.


Let us speak plainly.

The real problem is, when asked to put up or shut up on this specific issue you got nothing.

Truth is important, and the people back them spoke it and wrote it as they knew it. Much as we might fervently wish people back then lived in our same reality, it weren't so.

On the 4th I'll be at the Alamo dressed out 1836. Travis of course famously brung his slave Joe and Bowie among other things had previously tried to make his fortune buying, selling and illegally smuggling them. Crockett AFAIK was largely silent on the topic tho his principled stance against Indian Removal whatever the cost to his career is but one of the things that makes him so admirable.

ALL of these guys were justly respected by those who knew them as good and honorable men regardless of their own degree of involvement in what to us today was a morally reprehensible institution, an actual atrocity.

Its like Noah Smithwick (who, tho pro-Union, owned two slaves in 1861) said; times were different back then.

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As for quoting it for you; F'k that. Earn it and learn it.


Aye, there's the rub.... you yourself ain't ever hardly looked at all, else you'd be all over it <shrug>

Birdwatcher
On a "state" level, as Joe Bob is speaking of, Missouri didn't secede until attacked by the Federal Government of Lincoln. Missouri's executive branch wanted to secede but the legislative would not provide the needed 2/3 majority. The majority of the populace seemed to be southern in origin but with many strong business ties to the emerging industrial revolution of the North. Lincoln's military leaders in Missouri and Kansas were abolitionists and provocateurs. Lincoln demanded 50,000 troops from Missouri to assist in quelling the rebellion. Missouri, while not wanting to leave the Union also did not want to fight against their relatives and friends from Virginia and Kentucky so they adopted armed neutrality as a policy with General Sterling Price, a hero of the Mexican War and former governor, as the commander. Federal troops attacked the Missouri troops! The heavy-handedness of the Federal government caused Missouri to then secede from the Union after the Federal government attacked Jefferson City and forced its evacuation. The Missouri State Guard was not mustered into the Confederate Army until 1862, meaning that the state of Missouri fought the Union until that time.