Originally Posted by GunGeek
Originally Posted by jwp475
...Don't believe that lack of penetration in a lethal confrontation is your friend it is not.

That's a good statement right there! But there is a point to where there is too much of a good thing. Would you choose a hard cast .44 mag when going into a hostage situation in a preschool? Probably not.

But you're right in that you ABSOLUTELY MUST have sufficient penetration; that comes before and above ALL!

Seems everyone is always concerned about maximum expansion (because big mushroom'd bullets look impressive), and rarely talk about penetration. Like carrying a JHP in a .380 or .32 auto, they're putting expansion ahead of penetration. A .380 will give adequate (just) penetration with a hard cast or FMJ. Add in a JHP and (in my opinion), you've taken away it's one "must have".

On the flip side, if you carry a round you know will perforate your target every damn time, and you carry that round in areas where there are a lot of people, that's just negligent. Too me it's about striking a balance. I think the FBI's requirement of 12" penetration under all circumstances is very well thought out. Regardless of expanded bullet size, if that bullet doesn't reach 12" penetration in calibrated ballistics gel, it's rejected. I think that's reasonable.

But if you find your carry round penetrates 30" under all circumstances, then the pendulum may have swung a bit too far.

Still, your choice to carry the hard cast as a reload is a pretty good idea. Reasoning, if the first magazine doesn't get the job done, you may need a "specialty" round to penetrate barriers to shut down the enemy.


The Remington 240 SJHP will not out penetrate some 45 ACP standard pressure loads since it is very soft and opens like an old silver dollar. The wound channel is indeed impressive. Of there are limits to every thing including eating.
Ayyob's article is filled with BS rendering it less than meaningful. I read so called experts claim that 9mm penetrates hard barriers better than 45 ACP and that was probably true at one time but no longer is that true. I shot 3- 55 gallon drums lined up with 9mm +P 124 grain XTP against Hornady Critical Duty 220 grain +P they both penetrated 5 sides and both were stopped by side 6. The difference is the 45 left large holes all the way and actually split side 6 that I could see through. Bottom line the 9mm did not out penetrate the 45 in metal or my wood test.



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first