Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
Originally Posted by Coyote_Hunter

More importantly you are myopic. You believe that everyone should arrive at the same conclusions you do based on the available evidence, yet you fail to see the entire landscape. A fast-twist .223 is highly “efficient” based on your weight and recoil criteria and would easily suffice for most of the shooting and hunting most people will do in their lifetimes - yet they often shunned for various reasons and are illegal for hunting big game in some (most?) states.

You (intentionally?) ignored half of what I said - the part about appropriate terminal ballistics. Don't think a .224 bullet is suitable for the animal you're hunting, or it's not legal? Great, don't use one. I don't think they work particularly well on deer-sized game myself even though most states including mine have legalized them. But that doesn't mean the solution is to move to a .30-378W or even a .30-06. There are plenty of 6mm, .25 and 6.5mm bullets that are good for deer, and that chambered in various short action cartridges give a nice, efficient, easy to carry deer rifle for use out west. Do I think most deer hunters would be better off with a .243, .257 Roberts(+P), .260, 6.5CM or heck even a 6mm Dasher than with a .30-06? Definitely. You get plenty good terminal ballistics, plenty of reach, a lighter gun, and less recoil.



I didn’t ignore half of what you said, I just don’t accept your premises. A .30-06 can easily be downloaded to .308 Win or even lower velocities and trajectories and recoil. Or, because of it’s 19% greater case volume, it can be loaded up to provide higher velocities and flatter trajectories. It can also push heavier bullets to velocities the .308 Win can only dream of. For hunting purposes, there are few options as versatile as the .30-06.

Your contention that a smaller cartridge implies a lighter rifle is mistaken in the extreme. The standard barrel length for a .308 Win is 22” but the 20” barreled .30-06 I just gave my latest son-in-law is shorter and lighter than most .308 Win rifles. A shorter cartridge allows a shorter, lighter action and rifle but does not guarantee anything. In the Ruger American rifles, both with 22” barrels, the .308 Win is indeed lighter, but only by 1.6 ounces – hardly worth mentioning. As to “easy to carry”, the .308 Win American is a whole .5” shorter – again not much to write home about.

Your analysis of recoil is also flawed. Consider Hodgdon’s data. Load a 7.0 pound Ruger Hawkeye to 2737fps with a 168g bullet and 45.0g Varget and you get recoil of 20.4 ft-lbs @ 13.7fps. Load Ruger’s 7.5 pound .30-06 Hawkeye to 2710fps with a 168g bullet and 47.0g Varget and you get recoil of 19.3 ft-lbs @ 12.9fps. (Both Ruger rifles have 22” barrels, so the velocity numbers would change somewhat, but the .30-06 would still have less recoil – I checked.) For those who want to deliver more energy downrange, a 24” 30-06 can be loaded up to 2897fps with H4350, delivering 2000 ft-lbs to 390 yards, about 100 yards further than a 308 can do. Perhaps that 100 yards is not important to you or perhaps you see no need for a 168g or heavier bullet. Not everyone would agree and there are many who would gladly trade another 4 ft-lbs of recoil for that advantage.

For my own purposes, I’ve determined a .30-06 generally meets my hunting needs better than a .308 Win, even though I’ve had four .308s and still have two. Perhaps you should sit down for this last - a 7mm RM suits or .300WM suits my needs even better.


Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.

A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.