For all the crap Llama_Bob threw out about the .308 Win equaling the .30-06, and all the nonsense reasons why, did anyone else wonder why he didn't provide apples to apples comparisons with bulletsmany people use in the .30-06, like a 180g Ballistic Tip? I did, but I suspected the reason Llama_Bob did not was the .308 Win didn't fare well. That, and Llama_Bob wasn't man enough to have an honest, rational, adult discussion on the matter. He apparently thought name-calling could win the day.
After talking to NECO, and having them run a simulation on one of my .280 Rem140g AB loads (they were off by 6fps), I decided to buy QuickLOAD - something I had been considering for some time. Below are three simulations from QuickLOAD version 3.9.0.14, all using default data for the Nosler 180g Ballistic Tip with the exception of pressure. The .308 load uses SAAMI 62,000PSI while the .30-06 uses SAAMI 60,000PSI in one simulation and 62,000PSI in the other.
The results? 2824fps = .308 Win @ 62,000PSI, 120% compressed load, 54,6g RL-26 (the only load over 2800fps) 2950fps = .30-06 @ 60,000PSI, 110% compressed load, 64.5g RL-26 (70 yard fps and fpe advantage over .308 Win) 2977fps = .30-06 @ 62,000PSI, 111% compressed load, 65.0g RL-26 (85 yard fps and fpe advantage over .308 Win)
Note that I did not include all the loads listed by QuickLOAD. In the interest of brevity, I stopped at a minimum 2750fps for the .308 Win while for the .30-06 I stopped at a minimum 2900fps. I provide the data because, according to Llama_Bob, QuickLOAD is gospel - even he can't argue with the results. Also, I'm not suggesting anyone should try these laods without very careful workup. As for myself, I tend to avoid all but very lightly compressed loads.
As to whether a 70 yard or 85 yard advantage in fps and fpe is really any advantage at all, I'll leave that for another post.
Code
======================================================================================
.308 Win, 62KPSI =====================================================================
Cartridge : .308 Win. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 180, Nosler BalTip 39583
Useable Case Capaci: 45.762 grain H2O = 2.971 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26 120.4 54.6 3.54 2824 98.5 62000 8951 1.126 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 60 110.2 48.8 3.16 2798 100.0 62000 8086 1.129 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma MRP 121.0 53.3 3.45 2785 95.9 62000 8733 1.134 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-17 109.5 48.4 3.14 2783 99.9 62000 8038 1.133 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Elcho 17 109.5 48.4 3.14 2783 99.9 62000 8038 1.133 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Somchem S365 118.1 49.5 3.21 2774 100.0 62000 7662 1.136 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-23 126.9 52.4 3.39 2769 99.6 62000 8090 1.135 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-16 117.8 48.4 3.14 2769 99.6 62000 7905 1.139 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 62 114.1 50.4 3.27 2763 98.8 62000 8020 1.143 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 217 141.0 58.6 3.79 2753 93.9 62000 8975 1.140 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP30 132.5 55.9 3.62 2750 92.4 62000 8652 1.139 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma MRP 2 132.5 55.9 3.62 2750 92.4 62000 8652 1.139 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Raufoss RA15 123.1 52.5 3.40 2750 94.2 62000 8435 1.140 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-22 123.1 52.5 3.40 2750 94.2 62000 8435 1.140 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 123.1 52.5 3.40 2750 94.2 62000 8435 1.140 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
====================================================================================
.30-06, 60KPSI =====================================================================
Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 180, Nosler BalTip 39583
Useable Case Capaci: 59.087 grain H2O = 3.836 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 60000 psi, or 413 MPa
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
5 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26 110.2 64.5 4.18 2950 99.9 60000 10719 1.138 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 217 130.4 70.0 4.53 2934 98.2 60000 11150 1.137 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma MRP 110.7 62.9 4.08 2911 98.6 60000 10658 1.143 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-25 118.8 64.4 4.17 2902 99.7 60000 10364 1.139 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP30 121.9 66.4 4.30 2901 96.4 60000 10775 1.143 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma MRP 2 121.9 66.4 4.30 2901 96.4 60000 10775 1.143 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
====================================================================================
.30-06, 62KPSI =====================================================================
Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 180, Nosler BalTip 39583
Useable Case Capaci: 59.087 grain H2O = 3.836 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
4 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26 111.1 65.0 4.21 2977 100.0 62000 10738 1.122 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 217 131.3 70.5 4.57 2963 98.5 62000 11192 1.120 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma MRP 111.6 63.5 4.11 2939 98.8 62000 10715 1.126 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-25 119.8 64.9 4.21 2929 99.8 62000 10396 1.123 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma MRP 2 122.9 66.9 4.34 2929 96.8 62000 10842 1.127 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP30 122.9 66.9 4.34 2929 96.8 62000 10842 1.127 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N570 122.6 70.4 4.56 2927 90.7 62000 11456 1.124 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-50 130.3 76.8 4.97 2923 90.4 62000 11515 1.126 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon Retumbo 126.4 69.2 4.49 2921 98.9 62000 10871 1.123 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2225 126.4 69.2 4.49 2921 98.9 62000 10871 1.123 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 60 101.4 57.9 3.75 2921 100.0 62000 9588 1.123 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N560 113.2 63.0 4.08 2914 95.7 62000 10741 1.128 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 70 107.4 62.3 4.04 2910 99.1 62000 10369 1.123 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H870 129.4 72.8 4.72 2904 92.8 62000 11178 1.127 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-22 113.6 62.6 4.05 2903 97.6 62000 10448 1.131 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 113.6 62.6 4.05 2903 97.6 62000 10448 1.131 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Raufoss RA15 113.6 62.6 4.05 2903 97.6 62000 10448 1.131 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate MAGPRO 113.5 65.7 4.26 2902 94.0 62000 10714 1.132 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP15 116.7 62.9 4.07 2902 97.5 62000 10453 1.132 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester WXR 116.7 62.9 4.07 2902 97.5 62000 10453 1.132 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-17 100.4 57.4 3.72 2901 100.0 62000 9535 1.130 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Elcho 17 100.4 57.4 3.72 2901 100.0 62000 9535 1.130 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
