Originally Posted by TF49
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by TF49
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by CAPITALIST
I've got 2 comical paradigm shifts that happened to me that I'd like to use to demonstrate a point:

1. I've always been told (since younger than I can remember) that I looked exactly like my Dad. He was almost 6' tall with a very large bone-structure and the muscle to go along with it. I'm 5'6" and smaller structured (I'm not "small" by any means, just smaller than he was). Yet, because of what everyone said, I guess I just assumed that my head was as big as his (again, this began very young) and I just never questioned it. I bought a sweet sport bike when I was 37 (a blue and white Yamaha R1) and I was absolutely shocked that a large helmet that came with the bike could almost be turned all the way around with my head installed... it was huge on me. My older brother then pointed something out that I'd never heard before: "You've got a tiny head"... HUH? The very next morning in the shower while washing my hair, I noticed how small my head was... for the first time in 37 years I didn't have the over-sized cranial structure of my father, even though it was never there to begin with! hahahaha

and 2. I've never liked gambling. I work - and always have worked - very hard for my earnings and never even bought lottery tickets (except once when the power ball got over $1 billion and my wife wanted one... I still did not want it). Then I went to a seminar for investing in the stock market... long story short, over the next 4 years I'd blown over $40,000 and realized - to my own horror - that I displayed every single symptom of an addicted gambler and most of them of an addicted drug abuser. I had to investigate all of the information from all sides to intelligently evaluate my "truths" in both of these examples, though the latter was a much larger blow to mentally absorb... okay, maybe this one wasn't "comical".

With those examples, I'm postulating that for several generations, schools have not just been teaching, but *indoctrinating* the very similarly susceptible minds of the youth that the only possibility of truth is in their version of "science" and any discussion otherwise would be dealt with by immediately shaming the intellecutal acuity of those youths, thereby "teaching them lessons" against ever practicing true science with the exploration of all possible information... these also are lessons that won't soon be questioned.

I've seen many of Richard Dawkins' debates. One in particular was with Frank Turek who cited dozens of absolutely indisputeable scientific facts who then earnestly requested that Mr. Dawkins present any evidence that could refute these facts. Dawkins wasn't even listening (or he was ignoring)... not one morsal of evidence cited for refutation (even though Turek had soundly addressed each of those posed by Dawkins); only harsh criticisms of how "dumb" Christians were for believing the impossibility of God. The very same science proves them wrong on every front.

Ray Comfort (a simple New Zealand street-preacher who now lives in California) made a few videos in which he interviewed several other giants of evolutionary theory: P.Z. Myers, Craig Stanford, Gail Kennedy, Peter Nonacs and yes, Penn Gillette. He *stumped* them with the most simplistic of questions and truths. He was *not* there to badger them into accepting Christ or even accepting the possibility of Him. He was sincerely (and lovingly) trying to lead them to the Truth by pointing out the most basic of scientific facts espoused by all genres of study. He was using the same science to prove them and their conclusions to be at the minimum suspect and in reality, not even possible. Not one had even a smidgeon of a retort and many had long pauses of incredulity (like my helmet experience!) Penn Gillette even threatened to sue him if his reactions were put on the internet.

A third shift occurred to a good friend of mine. He was a black belt in Karate before he was 16 years old. He professed it was like, "fighting inside a box" and didn't like it even though he was state champion at the time (about 17 or so). I was just beginning in a Chinese art that was much more fluid and which he was very intrigued by when I demonstrated it to him... but he was so invested in his rank, that he couldn't allow himself to be freed from his own "box" that he had helped to build.

Romans 1:22 "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things"

I really want everyone who believes in evolution to ask themselves 3 questions:
1. Am I positive that evolution is true?
2. Do I feel disgust or even pity for others who don't believe in evolution?
3. Do I vehemently defend evolution to those who believe otherwise?


If you answered "Yes" to these questions, understand that just as I had no idea that I was gambling (I wasn't "gambling", it was the *stock market* for Pete's sake!), you haven't yet realized that evolution is absolutely your religion. You answered "Yes" to those questions and if you replaced the word "Evolution" with "Christ" I would've answered "Yes" to every one of them, also. Yes, you are religious, and you should be scientifically evalutaing your "truths" just as I have mine (and continue to). Again, the Smithsonian Institution spent years trying to prove The Bible wrong. There were things they couldn't prove or disprove (a talking donkey?!!!), but for everything that could be verified ...it was ...every time. That's science that I can take comfort in.

If I'm wrong what have I lost? If you're wrong, I'm praying sincerely for you.

If anyone can disprove evolution, they should go for it.

A more lively topic would be the “proof” of evolution….. why don’t you start a new thread with the “proofs” of evolution?

And don’t in with that weak ass fruit fly nonsense…. That is not evolution, that is just evolutionist renaming normal genetic variation….this was done, presumably as there is little…. Perhaps…no…evidence for evolutionary change.

May start with the evolution of the horse?

It's been done to death. The evidence for evolution is overwhelming, it is proven, it is readily available in journals, textbooks and online....it has been quoted and cited countless times....but of course rejected out of hand by those who prefer special creation, which has no evidence.

Nope, you are again totally wrong.

So, go ahead …. Give us some “proof.”

Try not to cut and paste…..



Edit to add:

Were I to tell you that the many OT prophecies regarding the Messiah were fulfilled in Jesus and that fulfillment was unequivocal proof that those prophesies were inspired and ordained by God….. would you accept that as proof that Jesus was indeed the Messiah?

If your answer is no….. care to explain why?


Repeating ''you are totally wrong'' like a mantra doesn't make it so.

I'm doing nothing more than pointing out the basics of logic, reason, philosophy and science. It's not even controversial.

It's a simple thing: observations are made, evidence is acquired and thoroughly analyzed and tested....which builds a picture of how the world works.

It's the most successful method of understanding the world, the universe and our place in it that we have ever had.

The results are spectacular. Astronomy, technology, chemistry, medicine surpassing anything anything found in our collection of holy books or faith in general.

The evidence is undeniable, even while you are using it to argue for faith.