Originally Posted by ihookem
Geez Antelope Sniper. You sure spend a lot of time trying to prove something does not exist. Why? What do you care? Deep inside you know very well God exists. If I am wrong and no life , no God after I die I loose nothing. If you are wrong and there is a hell for people that refuse to believe in Christ as a savior then you loose everything. I can't tell ya how many atheists I have come across that are so hell bent to prove they are right when there is nothing for them to gain except the self satisfaction they tried to make a person stumble in their faith. If you succeed, again , you gain nothing. I don't get the motive for your intentions.


What you are proposing is known as Pascals Wager, and it's been thoroughly debunked for 100+ years. It's actually considered on of the weakest arguments in all of apologetic and amounts to little more then a threat.

Where I am only trying to change minds with reason, you are using the threat of eternal torture.

First, the proposition in not between one god and no god, it's between all the thousands of god, and the variations within those religions, and the possibility that all those god beliefs are wrong. If the Muslims or Hindu's are right, you've still lost everything you've invested in this life into your Christian religions, and you are still going to a version of hell.

Even if we are just discussion the proposition of your god vs. no god, to say that you loose nothing is still incorrect. You could loose much from this world. How many hours have you invested in prayer? How much money have you given to your holy-man/church. How many wrong actions have you taken in this life as a result of your beliefs, and how many discoveries were lost because you believed an incorrect conclusion because of "faith". So you still have much to loose in this life due to an incorrect belief.

As for you assertion that one who is made so that he could not believe (that was the original antagonist in Pascal's Wager), do you really believe your God is so stupid that he would not know if I was just pretending to believe so I could get a free trip to heaven? Shouldn't that really piss him off? If I am wrong, I would much rather face God as a honest man who used all the reasoning capacity we posses and did not see sufficient evidence then as some huckster who was trying to lie and scam my way into heaven.

But that goes back to the OP's original question about honesty, doesn't it?


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell