Originally Posted by TF49
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by eyeball
Didnt you read my body of truth, He will allow no proof. Did you tell your father on earth show you proof. You deserve nothing. He offers you all for only faith, as a little child believes in its mother.


So one again, you admit that you have NO evidence.

If you god is unable to manifest himself in this world in a manner sufficient to prove any evidence for his existence, it's the same as him not existing at all.

As for your "body of truth", that's nothing more them some blathering from a book for which you have not yet established a reason to believe.

AS,

No, the evidence of God’s existence is all around us. YOU just choose not to believe it. Others look at the evidence and see proof of God. YOU choose to ignore and disbelieve.

You are not alone in this either. I have wondered about Judas. He was right there with Jesus, saw the miracles, heard him speak and yet chose to betray Him. How could that be? There are many examples of people in this world and in the Bible who have been confronted with God and confronted with the reality of God and yet reject and go their own way.

So, the evidence? The universe, the earth, the laws of nature and all of creation. It did not just happen, It was created. The human body, DNA and the fact that we are self aware and intelligent (well the most part) beings.

Also, it is clear that not only does God exist but HE does pursue us. God seems to be on my mind all the time. He is there on your mind. I;d wager there is not a human on earth that has not considered himself and his relationship to “god.”

You made mention that God has not competently revealed himself to us. Not so at all. He came to earth to SHOW us Himself in the form of Jesus and the there is all the revelation one needs right there in the bible.

But, you have set yourself up as the “Judge” and choose to reject. There is nothing new or novel in that.

It seems to me that God pursues and many reject. Seems that HE wants those of voluntarily choose to follow Him. Those that respond to the call.

You have not, at least not yet.

So be it.

TF


TF, Every last one of the "proofs" you mention that are all around us, are explained with a natural model that does not require the intervention of a God. In the words of LaPlace, I have no need for that Hypothesis. What you actually presented is just an argument from personal incredulity.

As for Judas, according to the Gospel of Judas, he just did what Jesus asked of him. According to your dogma, without Jesus getting caught, there could of been no bloody human sacrifice. Or, he's just a common plot device you would find in any fictional drama.

As for our laws of nature, they are descriptive, not prescriptive.

You claim it is clear that God exists, but all you've offered is one fallacious argument, not exactly evidence.

As for your assertion that God descended to earth as Jesus, where is your evidence? None of the Gospels are eye witness accounts. None are signed, we don't even know who wrote them. In addition, all that we have is copies of copies of copies, with the first full gospels dating to the 4th century CE. The earliest post card size fragment of a gospel dates to no earlier then 120 CE, at least 90 years after the alleged events, and could date 30-40 years later. Matthew is just a rewrite of Mark, and Luke is a rewrite of Matthew, and John was cobbled together from the writings of several different authors.

The gospels take the form of common drama's written at the time, and borrow plot lines from earlier dying/rising cults, and story lines from the Old Testament.

In the original 6 or 7 non-forged Pauling Epistles, Paul never makes a clear reference to an earthly Jesus nor places him on this earth.

In addition, there is no independent non-biblical corroboration of the gospels from contemporary historians of the day.

As for "judging", yes, unlike you, I choose to use my reason to evaluate the quality of the evidence for the claims that you make, and find the sum total of the evidence is zero.

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You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell