just an observation, but we're at 33 computer pages and the debate goes on.

my grandmother, born & raised in a devout lutheran family fell by the wayside.

then she joint up with the baptists, southern type. we've talked about this before.

as a devout believer she always talked of hope. Jesus gave us folks hope.

we have hope according to grandmom because jesus lives or did.

she could also read coffee grounds in the bottom of coffee cups.

could determine if a witch had caused the cow to give bad milk.

could wash, dress & prepare a corpse in the community for burial.

that was back in the day that we had circuit riding preachers.

some were from afar. some were pentacostels, methodists,

and then the baptists seem to have taken over the country.

making money as a preacher is a nefarious occupation?

most folks might not know jesus even if they met him?