Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Thunderstick
Quote
The British weren't very understanding of our Declaration of Independence either. Since they were going against the authority of the day, I hope our forefathers are not burning in hell for their disobedience to the ruling authorities.


Correct which is why we let that ultimately in God's hands. But they were not seeking to overthrow faith or morality, rather they were seeking to establish it on a higher level. They sought the wisdom and guidance of God in public prayer and fasting. They all testified that they would have lost had not divine providence aided them. A skeptic would never be able to establish a beneficent country like our founders because they would begin with rejecting God, His morals, and would create their own truth and reality.We know what happens when that occurs because that is what the Nazis and Communists did.Such countries commit atrocities with impunity because their is no moral accountability.


Our forefathers were children of the Enlightenment, which was a movement toward science and away from Faith. As mentioned before, a good many were at least deist, the equivalent of being an Atheist in their day, and Jefferson's personal version of the Bible was highly modified.....

As for your claim about skeptics and government, keep in mind, Philosophical Skepticism is not limited to theistic claims, but is a method to evaluate all truth claims. In their day, Skeptics questioned the claims of Plato, Aristotle, Stoics, Scholasticism, and metaphysical claims beyond theism.

The philosophies of Hobbs and Spinoza, were both highly skeptical, and the skepticism of Hume and Kant greatly influenced Locke. The society you live in today was influences by skepticism way more than you realize.

So how many times is God, and how many times is specifically the Christian God mentioned in the Constitution of the United States?



We have already addressed this -- the most liberal of the founders were Jefferson and Franklin. I gave quotes were Jefferson elevated the morals of Jesus above all others and where Franklin said their success was based on divine providence. The rest of the founders were even more religious. None were amoral or atheistic. The declaration of Independence which is seminal to all is based on a Creator giving them equal rights. No atheistic society was ever formed that amounted to anything worthwhile for this world. The Constitution should be read within the context of a religious people who were trying to establish a moral government without a state church.

John Adams

SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; JUDGE; DIPLOMAT; ONE OF TWO SIGNERS
OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS; SECOND PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.

The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity.


John Quincy Adams

SIXTH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES; DIPLOMAT; SECRETARY OF STATE; U. S. SENATOR;
U. S. REPRESENTATIVE; “OLD MAN ELOQUENT”; “HELL-HOUND OF ABOLITION”
My hopes of a future life are all founded upon the Gospel of Christ and I cannot cavil or quibble away [evade or object to]. . . . the whole tenor of His conduct by which He sometimes positively asserted and at others countenances [permits] His disciples in asserting that He was God.


Elias Boudinot
PRESIDENT OF CONGRESS; SIGNED THE PEACE TREATY TO END THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION; FIRST ATTORNEY ADMITTED TO THE U. S. SUPREME COURT BAR; FRAMER OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS; DIRECTOR OF THE U. S. MINT
Let us enter on this important business under the idea that we are Christians on whom the eyes of the world are now turned… [L]et us earnestly call and beseech Him, for Christ’s sake, to preside in our councils. . . . We can only depend on the all powerful influence of the Spirit of God, Whose Divine aid and assistance it becomes us as a Christian people most devoutly to implore. Therefore I move that some minister of the Gospel be requested to attend this Congress every morning . . . in order to open the meeting with prayer.17


Charles Carroll
SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; SELECTED AS DELEGATE TO THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION; FRAMER OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS; U. S. SENATOR
On the mercy of my Redeemer I rely for salvation and on His merits, not on the works I have done in obedience to His precepts.
Grateful to Almighty God for the blessings which, through Jesus Christ Our Lord, He had conferred on my beloved country in her emancipation and on myself in permitting me, under circumstances of mercy, to live to the age of 89 years, and to survive the fiftieth year of independence, adopted by Congress on the 4th of July 1776, which I originally subscribed on the 2d day of August of the same year and of which I am now the last surviving signer.


John Dickinson
SIGNER OF THE CONSTITUTION; GOVERNOR OF PENNSYLVANIA; GOVERNOR OF DELAWARE; GENERAL IN THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION
Rendering thanks to my Creator for my existence and station among His works, for my birth in a country enlightened by the Gospel and enjoying freedom, and for all His other kindnesses, to Him I resign myself, humbly confiding in His goodness and in His mercy through Jesus Christ for the events of eternity.

[Governments] could not give the rights essential to happiness… We claim them from a higher source: from the King of kings, and Lord of all the earth.

Benjamin Franklin
SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION; DIPLOMAT; PRINTER; SCIENTIST;
SIGNER OF THE CONSTITUTION; GOVERNOR OF PENNSYLVANIA
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see.

John Hancock
SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; PRESIDENT OF CONGRESS;
REVOLUTIONARY GENERAL; GOVERNOR OF MASSACHUSETTS
Sensible of the importance of Christian piety and virtue to the order and happiness of a state, I cannot but earnestly commend to you every measure for their support and encouragement.
He called on the entire state to pray “that universal happiness may be established in the world [and] that all may bow to the scepter of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the whole earth be filled with His glory.”


These are just a few from a vast volume.
I fully support being skeptical of that which cannot be sustained by the laws of evidence and I certainly support being skeptical of the amoral basis of skepticism a system wholly inadequate to provide a foundation for anything that is true or enduring.