Originally Posted by nighthawk
Originally Posted by DBT
Not really, nothing has been proven. Nobody doubts the phenomena of NDE's and out of body experiences happen, but the evidence supports that these are a brain induced experience, a form of lucid dreams or visions. Both NDE's and OBE's have been induced in the lab using both hallucinogenics and electrical brain stimulation.



That's what I thought too. But then there have been clinical peer reviewed studies since. There are documented events which cannot be explained. Leaves open the possibility of a transcendent part of our being as long as no physical explanation is available.

Proves nothing, leaves open the possibility of alternate explanations.

Here's one I particularly like, dunno why.

Shoe on the Ledge

Melvin Morse and Kim Clark reported a woman who had knowledge of a shoe on a window ledge outside the hospital. The shoe was nowhere near the place she had been resuscitated, but was next to a third-floor office. Though the shoe could have been seen from a window after the woman’s resuscitation, she had described it with such detail that it must have been viewed up close. She noted that the shoe had a worn little toe, and the shoelace was tucked beneath the heel.

The psychologist who interviewed the woman (Kim Clark) had to crawl along the ledge outside to verify the claim. The shoe was indeed there precisely as the patient had described it.

Clark concluded that:

“The only way she [the patient] could have had such a perspective was if she had been floating right outside and at very close range to the tennis shoe. I retrieved the shoe and brought it back to Maria; it was very concrete evidence for me.”


That story was not part of a peer reviewed study. If it was, please direct us to the journal article.

You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell