Originally Posted by Thunderstick
Originally Posted by Tarquin
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Thunderstick
Quote
The British weren't very understanding of our Declaration of Independence either. Since they were going against the authority of the day, I hope our forefathers are not burning in hell for their disobedience to the ruling authorities.


Correct which is why we let that ultimately in God's hands. But they were not seeking to overthrow faith or morality, rather they were seeking to establish it on a higher level. They sought the wisdom and guidance of God in public prayer and fasting. They all testified that they would have lost had not divine providence aided them. A skeptic would never be able to establish a beneficent country like our founders because they would begin with rejecting God, His morals, and would create their own truth and reality.We know what happens when that occurs because that is what the Nazis and Communists did.Such countries commit atrocities with impunity because their is no moral accountability.


Our forefathers were children of the Enlightenment, which was a movement toward science and away from Faith. As mentioned before, a good many were at least deist, the equivalent of being an Atheist in their day, and Jefferson's personal version of the Bible was highly modified.....

As for your claim about skeptics and government, keep in mind, Philosophical Skepticism is not limited to theistic claims, but is a method to evaluate all truth claims. In their day, Skeptics questioned the claims of Plato, Aristotle, Stoics, Scholasticism, and metaphysical claims beyond theism.

The philosophies of Hobbs and Spinoza, were both highly skeptical, and the skepticism of Hume and Kant greatly influenced Locke. The society you live in today was influences by skepticism way more than you realize.

So how many times is God, and how many times is specifically the Christian God mentioned in the Constitution of the United States?



So much of what is said above is misleading. Saying the Enlightenment was a movement away from faith and toward science misses a lot and misrepresents a lot more. The Enlightment was premised on the belief that scientific truth could be discovered by reason. It did not purport to reject revelation as a means of ascertaining truth because it recognized that reason cannot refute revelation and vice-versa. A Deist was not the equivalent of an Atheist in the mind of the founders or on some scale of belief or unbelief. That's just silly. There is a difference between the skepticism that acknowledges "we don't know" and the radical skepticism of today that denies the existence of any objective reality at all. The Constitution clearly references the Christian God since it was axiomatic to the Founders that God meant Judeo-Christian monotheism. The Founders did not come from a tradition of Mohammedism for Chrissakes! The Preamble to the Constitution states that among its ends is the "secur[ing] of the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity". A"blessing" is, by definition, something which God wants you to have. It is something which God thinks is good for you. So, the idea of the existence of a God with the ability to bestow blessings is clearly implied in the Preamble of the Constituion in which its purposes are enumerated. In any event, the Constitution is an enactment of positive law. It's not a philosophic document so we wouldn't expect to find extended references to the philosophy which gave birth to the Constitution in that document itself. The philosophy underlying it is found in the Declaration of Independence in which the agreement between revealed religion (the laws of Nature's God" and reason (the laws of nature) was axiomatic and in which the existence of a God who oversaw the world was also axiomatic. Modern skepticism denies that genuine knowledge of the good, let alone reality, is even possible. This is radical, dogmatic skepticism which Jefferson and the Founders would have abhorred and probably more so than they might have abhorred narrow sectarian dogmatism.


Well reasoned and historically accurate.



“Good Lord! It is even worse than I thought. Some of you guys flunked Bible studies.” Bowsinger

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel. [The Age of Reason]

There are matters in the Bible, said to be done by the express commandment of God, that are shocking to humanity and to every idea we have of moral justice . . . [Complete Writings]

My country is the world, and my religion is to do good. Thomas Paine

Leo of the Land of Dyr

NRA FOR LIFE

I MISS SARAH

“In Trump We Trust.” Right????

SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."