Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by MtnBoomer
Originally Posted by nighthawk
Originally Posted by Starman
[1/. Where was this creator before the universe existed?
2/. where is that creator located now?

Don't get stuck in three dimensions.There was no "where," He just was and still is.

That's all the stuff I see zero reason to debate. It just isn't something that can be discerned.


Hitchen's razor can be applied to those claims.


I take it you object to, "There was no "where," He just was and still is." That derives from an earlier post:

Quote
Start at the beginning. I exist. You exist apart from me. We each came into existence as separate individuals, how did that happen? There must have been an entity to cause that. Nothing happens without a mover, a causing force. Skip through the Thomistic proofs, the upshot is there must have been a prime, uncreated entity and there can only be one. That we call God. Whatever characteristics you want to add to God is another matter. You can argue that this mode of thought, metaphysics, came from ancient Greeks in their consideration of fundamental transcendent desires of man.


Then I said, somewhere, that unless this unrestricted reality who created the universe created himself which is absurd, he must exist apart from, outside, the universe. Up to here this is just a clumsy restatement of part of the five Thomistic proofs.

Since our understanding of "where" is a place in the universe it is not applicable to an entity outside the universe. So saying "Where was God before He created the universe and where is God now" is nonsensical except to say not within the universe.(before it was created) and now we don't know with certainty but probably outside the universe because we have no information to the contrary.

Outside of the assumption of existence and that everything must have a cause except the one unrestricted uncaused reality what's wrong?

Same for time since we know time as an artifact of our universe.

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I'll amend that to say, "Where is God now?" to everywhere not in the sense of location but in the sense of being unrestricted.


The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh

Which explains a lot.